Not good for her, breaking and entering isn't a crime punished by death!
Well there's an easy way to avoid the punishment.
That's not how legal punishments and proportionality work though. As I said above I didn't realize the men in this had guns so this is self defense, but as mentioned just above Terrence Crutcher's car broke down while black in the middle of the road and what was his punishment? Death. Treyvon Martin was walking home eating skittles while black and what was his punishment? Death. Eric Garner was illegally selling cigarettes on the street and what was his punishment? Death. Alton Sterling may have resisted arrest, though why he was being arrested was unclear and what was his punishment? Death.
None of these "crimes" carry the death penalty. So this notion that there is a way to avoid such consequences is ludicrous.
I answered the post about breaking and entering. It really is quite simple, if you don't break into peoples houses you won't get shot in there.
So you would feel the same if they were unarmed? Because in most states you'll go to jail for manslaughter.
Not good for her, breaking and entering isn't a crime punished by death!
Well there's an easy way to avoid the punishment.
That's not how legal punishments and proportionality work though. As I said above I didn't realize the men in this had guns so this is self defense, but as mentioned just above Terrence Crutcher's car broke down while black in the middle of the road and what was his punishment? Death. Treyvon Martin was walking home eating skittles while black and what was his punishment? Death. Eric Garner was illegally selling cigarettes on the street and what was his punishment? Death. Alton Sterling may have resisted arrest, though why he was being arrested was unclear and what was his punishment? Death.
None of these "crimes" carry the death penalty. So this notion that there is a way to avoid such consequences is ludicrous.
I answered the post about breaking and entering. It really is quite simple, if you don't break into peoples houses you won't get shot in there.
So you would feel the same if they were unarmed? Because in most states you'll go to jail for manslaughter.
A startled intruder could do as much damage to someone unarmed as they could armed. If they felt cornered they could grab anything. Do you take that chance? It's a difficult one but something that would be made a lot easier if you didn't intrude in someone's home.
Not good for her, breaking and entering isn't a crime punished by death!
Well there's an easy way to avoid the punishment.
That's not how legal punishments and proportionality work though. As I said above I didn't realize the men in this had guns so this is self defense, but as mentioned just above Terrence Crutcher's car broke down while black in the middle of the road and what was his punishment? Death. Treyvon Martin was walking home eating skittles while black and what was his punishment? Death. Eric Garner was illegally selling cigarettes on the street and what was his punishment? Death. Alton Sterling may have resisted arrest, though why he was being arrested was unclear and what was his punishment? Death.
None of these "crimes" carry the death penalty. So this notion that there is a way to avoid such consequences is ludicrous.
I answered the post about breaking and entering. It really is quite simple, if you don't break into peoples houses you won't get shot in there.
So you would feel the same if they were unarmed? Because in most states you'll go to jail for manslaughter.
No, i'd wait to see if they were armed, maybe let them have first shot or first slash with a knife then i'd think how should I respond.
Not good for her, breaking and entering isn't a crime punished by death!
Well there's an easy way to avoid the punishment.
That's not how legal punishments and proportionality work though. As I said above I didn't realize the men in this had guns so this is self defense, but as mentioned just above Terrence Crutcher's car broke down while black in the middle of the road and what was his punishment? Death. Treyvon Martin was walking home eating skittles while black and what was his punishment? Death. Eric Garner was illegally selling cigarettes on the street and what was his punishment? Death. Alton Sterling may have resisted arrest, though why he was being arrested was unclear and what was his punishment? Death.
None of these "crimes" carry the death penalty. So this notion that there is a way to avoid such consequences is ludicrous.
I answered the post about breaking and entering. It really is quite simple, if you don't break into peoples houses you won't get shot in there.
So you would feel the same if they were unarmed? Because in most states you'll go to jail for manslaughter.
A startled intruder could do as much damage to someone unarmed as they could armed. If they felt cornered they could grab anything. Do you take that chance? It's a difficult one but something that would be made a lot easier if you didn't intrude in someone's home.
Hypothetically yes I suppose. But the law here makes really clear distinction between armed and unarmed crimes, ones with deadly weapons, etc. because it is so much easier for something with a weapon, namely a gun, to escalate into something deadly.
Perhaps I am jaded by viewing this through the lens of what goes disgustingly wrong with "stand your ground laws." They are markedly different from what @Baldybonce@ValleyGary@Bourneaddick describe, which seems to be on average self defense. I am of course not against self defense. Apologies if this is my bias, or perhaps an indication of the different way crimes are treated here, or perhaps both.
Thing is SD, if it meant coming inbetween an intruder and my family, interpretation of any laws would be the last thing i think of
Absolutely understandable, and I would feel the same with mine. It's what the "clear and present danger" (not sure if that's actually a part of the law or just a mediocre Harrison Ford film) aspect of self defense is for.
One more thing to add, I wonder if because of all the news surrounding gun crime in America there is an (understandable) perception that everyone has a gun, particularly every criminal perpetrating such an act. In actuality, that's really not the case. I can look up stats but I'm guessing that most breaking and enterings, or similar crimes, are done when the perpetrator isn't armed. This case where people are breaking and entering while armed is the outlier, hence it making national news.
So I'll say in the first watching of the video I didn't realize the men had guns, so I back off on my previous statement because this seems to be a genuine case of self defence.
That said, we have "Stand Your Ground" laws in this country whereby if at any time you feel you're threatened, you can shoot someone. This was made famous in the George Zimmerman/Treyvon Martin case whereby Martin was walking home, was accosted by Zimmerman, someone with no legal authority, a scuffle ensued, Martin was shot dead, and Zimmerman was acquitted based on "stand your ground."
Then best if you work on your observational skills mate. ;o)
Also if someone enters my house while my family were sleeping, then reasonable force goes out the window, Im gonna smash the shit out of them. This happened to a mate of mine who is a copper and trains in MA, he heard a small kitchen window go in which woke him in his sleep, then another noise as the tosser gained access to his house, he went down the stairs chucked on the light to find the guy standing in his kitchen, holding a big screwdriver which he had used to do the window and door. My mate is a lump and he openly admitted that he was crapping himself, anyway he didn't fuck about and went for the guy, and after a bit of a roll round on the floor managed to restrain him. The guy was a bit of a mess. In the cold light of day he was suspended from work while they tried to work out if he was guilty of anything. As it happens all was good.
So I'll say in the first watching of the video I didn't realize the men had guns, so I back off on my previous statement because this seems to be a genuine case of self defence.
That said, we have "Stand Your Ground" laws in this country whereby if at any time you feel you're threatened, you can shoot someone. This was made famous in the George Zimmerman/Treyvon Martin case whereby Martin was walking home, was accosted by Zimmerman, someone with no legal authority, a scuffle ensued, Martin was shot dead, and Zimmerman was acquitted based on "stand your ground."
Then best if you work on your observational skills mate. ;o)
It was half four in the morning and the video started buffering after the first like five seconds! But yeah, fair
Thing is SD, if it meant coming inbetween an intruder and my family, interpretation of any laws would be the last thing i think of
The day someone breaks into my home they're going to die. Different if it was just me but there isn't a chance I'm leaving anything to chance with my family in my home. They'd wish I had a gun and I'd be prepared to do life. For me the Yanks have got it absolutely spot on that people can defend their own homes
A pretty powerful take-down of the police officer who fatally shot the victim. Pretty eye opening, especially if you read the (several) follow-up tweets.
Wtf cannabis use has to do with anything I really don't know
Tokers are killers. Fact.
I murdered a king size box of pringles last night....
Your defence? Once I popped, I just couldn't stop?
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours I use this at work with kids for critical thinking in values lessons. Some of you no doubt have seen it. Mall shooting not up yet but incredible resource for anyone interested. Btw around 1700 incidents of "home invasion" statistically very small chance per head of population especially and I would imagine a pretty much zero chance of this happening to you in the vast majority of communities. On my visits to the US I have found contrary to the TV founded perceptions of the US that in reality it is often quite stiflingly law abiding.
18 Dead 50 wounded 24/9 There was an extended report on BBC news about Chicago in the week. Looking at the weekend's tally so far I can understand why. If you can stand the ad bombardment click on the newspaper links for a couple of incidents and see how bland the reports are.
18 Dead 50 wounded 24/9 There was an extended report on BBC news about Chicago in the week. Looking at the weekend's tally so far I can understand why. If you can stand the ad bombardment click on the newspaper links for a couple of incidents and see how bland the reports are.
Thank you so much for sharing @theeenorth. I was born in Chicago and can tell you it's one of the most racist cities, if not the most racist toward black people in the country. There is absolutely terrible gun violence going on on the south side of Chicago. It's always been bad but it's escalated in recent years. Some use black on black crime as a distraction, moral judgement on those involved, or even worse a justification for police shootings instead of seeing it as the pandemic that it is.
As far as reducing or stopping gun violence, I am genuinely despondent. I struggle to foresee any meaningful legislation passing any time soon. And even then, reducing the number or guns in the country acquired legally and illegally is a monumental task.
So 25/9 36 Dead 72 Wounded If we count from Friday through Sunday that gives 80 dead for the weekend. Thanks for your interest SD, sadly as you point out many of these faceless stats are concentrated in Chicago and Baltimore which also seems to have real problems. Fear of crime is usually way in advance of the realistic chances of becoming a victim of crime nevertheless there is a tipping point where defence against crime actually adds to the tally rather than diminishes it. I think it is hard to argue against the fact that purchasing a gun for self defence ultimately lowers societal tolerance of what is a serious risk and means that the risk of encountering a firearm and a person willing to use it is increased hence police responses to otherwise non threatening situations and the risk of incidents like Trayvon Martin's killing.
3 dead in Calgary, Alberta the past week so it happens north of the border too.
One of the dead was a professional football (the egg shaped one) player for the local CFL team - shot dead outside the club where we saw The Brian Jonestown Massacre a couple of months ago.
Not good for her, breaking and entering isn't a crime punished by death!
Well there's an easy way to avoid the punishment.
That's not how legal punishments and proportionality work though. As I said above I didn't realize the men in this had guns so this is self defense, but as mentioned just above Terrence Crutcher's car broke down while black in the middle of the road and what was his punishment? Death. Treyvon Martin was walking home eating skittles while black and what was his punishment? Death. Eric Garner was illegally selling cigarettes on the street and what was his punishment? Death. Alton Sterling may have resisted arrest, though why he was being arrested was unclear and what was his punishment? Death.
None of these "crimes" carry the death penalty. So this notion that there is a way to avoid such consequences is ludicrous.
I answered the post about breaking and entering. It really is quite simple, if you don't break into peoples houses you won't get shot in there.
So you would feel the same if they were unarmed? Because in most states you'll go to jail for manslaughter.
A startled intruder could do as much damage to someone unarmed as they could armed. If they felt cornered they could grab anything. Do you take that chance? It's a difficult one but something that would be made a lot easier if you didn't intrude in someone's home.
We had a major break-in, I was surrounded by men in balaclavas waving crow bars at me. I keep nunchuku under the bed but didn't have time to get them out. If I had, I suspect I'd have gotten my head caved in by the group. Ultimately, while the whole ordeal was shitty, by not fighting back and talking the invaders down, no physical harm came to anyone. It's not very satisfying to me, I'd love to smash them up, but I look at my girlfriend each night and thank my lucky stars it went the way it did. Absolutely no good whatsoever would have come from anyone in that mess holding a firearm. You're better off investing in an unbreakable door.
Not good for her, breaking and entering isn't a crime punished by death!
Well there's an easy way to avoid the punishment.
That's not how legal punishments and proportionality work though. As I said above I didn't realize the men in this had guns so this is self defense, but as mentioned just above Terrence Crutcher's car broke down while black in the middle of the road and what was his punishment? Death. Treyvon Martin was walking home eating skittles while black and what was his punishment? Death. Eric Garner was illegally selling cigarettes on the street and what was his punishment? Death. Alton Sterling may have resisted arrest, though why he was being arrested was unclear and what was his punishment? Death.
None of these "crimes" carry the death penalty. So this notion that there is a way to avoid such consequences is ludicrous.
I answered the post about breaking and entering. It really is quite simple, if you don't break into peoples houses you won't get shot in there.
So you would feel the same if they were unarmed? Because in most states you'll go to jail for manslaughter.
A startled intruder could do as much damage to someone unarmed as they could armed. If they felt cornered they could grab anything. Do you take that chance? It's a difficult one but something that would be made a lot easier if you didn't intrude in someone's home.
We had a major break-in, I was surrounded by men in balaclavas waving crow bars at me. I keep nunchuku under the bed but didn't have time to get them out. If I had, I suspect I'd have gotten my head caved in by the group. Ultimately, while the whole ordeal was shitty, by not fighting back and talking the invaders down, no physical harm came to anyone. It's not very satisfying to me, I'd love to smash them up, but I look at my girlfriend each night and thank my lucky stars it went the way it did. Absolutely no good whatsoever would have come from anyone in that mess holding a firearm. You're better off investing in an unbreakable door.
Glad you're okay Jimmy. And your experience that talking to them instead of instigating violence has been shown to have the most peaceful outcomes.
Another shooting of an innocent black man being shot after what may have been a Vape pen being pointed at police. The man is reported to be mentally handicapped.
I grew up in LA during and just after the era of Rodney King and OJ Simpsons and the riots. It was known that the LAPD would attack and/or frame people, particularly black and hispanic people, with relative frequency. It was just known that LAPD was corrupt and racist, and you needed to look no further than the fact that four police officers got away with beating the shit out of Rodney King ON TAPE (in an era without cell phone cameras) to see that Police were above the law.
This was the case across a lot of America. Things would flare up but eventually die back down again. As many I'm sure are aware, Ferguson changed that and awakened something within the black community, and then the country at large, that this is not good enough.
What I continue to wonder, and genuinely have no idea about, is whether things are getting worse, over the last say 5 years, let alone 25 years since I was growing up. In the era of cell phone cameras and hyper-vigilance you would always expect these things to make the news more frequently. It's every week now that a new case seems to be popping up. I remain somewhat haunted by the fact that this seems to be escalating, which would be mind boggling and I fear could lead to a stand off between police and their communities (or further stand-offs).
I don't really have a conclusion here. This really is just a post of my own musings.
Makes you laugh when you hear comments like the one from Fox News commentator Neil Cavuto saying he wouldn't break into Maceys if white men were being shot in the back. Easy to say when you are paid millions of dollars by FOX news and live in some mansion in a wealthy neighborhood.
Comments
Perhaps I am jaded by viewing this through the lens of what goes disgustingly wrong with "stand your ground laws." They are markedly different from what @Baldybonce @ValleyGary @Bourneaddick describe, which seems to be on average self defense. I am of course not against self defense. Apologies if this is my bias, or perhaps an indication of the different way crimes are treated here, or perhaps both.
This happened to a mate of mine who is a copper and trains in MA, he heard a small kitchen window go in which woke him in his sleep, then another noise as the tosser gained access to his house, he went down the stairs chucked on the light to find the guy standing in his kitchen, holding a big screwdriver which he had used to do the window and door.
My mate is a lump and he openly admitted that he was crapping himself, anyway he didn't fuck about and went for the guy, and after a bit of a roll round on the floor managed to restrain him. The guy was a bit of a mess.
In the cold light of day he was suspended from work while they tried to work out if he was guilty of anything.
As it happens all was good.
The day someone breaks into my home they're going to die. Different if it was just me but there isn't a chance I'm leaving anything to chance with my family in my home. They'd wish I had a gun and I'd be prepared to do life. For me the Yanks have got it absolutely spot on that people can defend their own homes
I use this at work with kids for critical thinking in values lessons. Some of you no doubt have seen it. Mall shooting not up yet but incredible resource for anyone interested. Btw around 1700 incidents of "home invasion" statistically very small chance per head of population especially and I would imagine a pretty much zero chance of this happening to you in the vast majority of communities. On my visits to the US I have found contrary to the TV founded perceptions of the US that in reality it is often quite stiflingly law abiding.
There was an extended report on BBC news about Chicago in the week. Looking at the weekend's tally so far I can understand why. If you can stand the ad bombardment click on the newspaper links for a couple of incidents and see how bland the reports are.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37469757
As far as reducing or stopping gun violence, I am genuinely despondent. I struggle to foresee any meaningful legislation passing any time soon. And even then, reducing the number or guns in the country acquired legally and illegally is a monumental task.
36 Dead
72 Wounded
If we count from Friday through Sunday that gives 80 dead for the weekend.
Thanks for your interest SD, sadly as you point out many of these faceless stats are concentrated in Chicago and Baltimore which also seems to have real problems. Fear of crime is usually way in advance of the realistic chances of becoming a victim of crime nevertheless there is a tipping point where defence against crime actually adds to the tally rather than diminishes it. I think it is hard to argue against the fact that purchasing a gun for self defence ultimately lowers societal tolerance of what is a serious risk and means that the risk of encountering a firearm and a person willing to use it is increased hence police responses to otherwise non threatening situations and the risk of incidents like Trayvon Martin's killing.
One of the dead was a professional football (the egg shaped one) player for the local CFL team - shot dead outside the club where we saw The Brian Jonestown Massacre a couple of months ago.
usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/09/28/police-shooting-el-cajon-san-diego-law-enforcement/91207454/
From The Atlantic, this is more on the whole irrational fear of home invasions, not your situation necessarily.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/gun-violence-and-the-irrational-fear-of-home-invasion/266613/
This was the case across a lot of America. Things would flare up but eventually die back down again. As many I'm sure are aware, Ferguson changed that and awakened something within the black community, and then the country at large, that this is not good enough.
What I continue to wonder, and genuinely have no idea about, is whether things are getting worse, over the last say 5 years, let alone 25 years since I was growing up. In the era of cell phone cameras and hyper-vigilance you would always expect these things to make the news more frequently. It's every week now that a new case seems to be popping up. I remain somewhat haunted by the fact that this seems to be escalating, which would be mind boggling and I fear could lead to a stand off between police and their communities (or further stand-offs).
I don't really have a conclusion here. This really is just a post of my own musings.