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Another Shooting In America?

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  • WSS said:

    bobmunro said:

    JWADDICK said:

    Lots of people sending prayers. That’ll help.

    Can't hurt can it?
    It can if they genuinely think it will have any positive impact on the issue going forward.
    It's thoughts and prayers for the victims and their grieving families - positive at best, neutral at worst.

    I agree it needs something other than prayers to knock some sense into the politicians to actually do something about guns.

    Not sure neutral is worst.

    If the leader of my country or anyone with the power to influence change after years of these incidents offered "thoughts and prayers" after my son had just been shot down at school I'd be going apoplectic at them.
    Agreed - offering thoughts and prayers and a promise to do something to stop it would be better.
  • Trump proves he is morally bankrupt once again with his trite comments.
  • WSS said:

    bobmunro said:

    JWADDICK said:

    Lots of people sending prayers. That’ll help.

    Can't hurt can it?
    It can if they genuinely think it will have any positive impact on the issue going forward.
    It's thoughts and prayers for the victims and their grieving families - positive at best, neutral at worst.

    I agree it needs something other than prayers to knock some sense into the politicians to actually do something about guns.

    Not sure neutral is worst.

    If the leader of my country or anyone with the power to influence change after years of these incidents offered "thoughts and prayers" after my son had just been shot down at school I'd be going apoplectic at them.
    I couldn't agree more, both with you and BM, thoughts and prayers alone are not enough from the leaders however when they are genuine and from those with no power to effect change I believe they might offer a very, very small measure of comfort in showing that the victims are not alone.

    When it's from Trump however perhaps it would be better to say nothing, or at least have the courage of his convictions and actually state, " frankly I couldn't give a toss, they're not old enough to vote."

  • Trump proves he is morally bankrupt once again with his trite comments.

    Countries need leaders that citizens can look up to for direction, clarity, empathy and trust. None of those four can be attributed to many, if any, US politicians, least of all Trump.
  • edited February 2018

    17 dead, 15 injured. How the hell did an ex-student, age 18, get an AR-15?

    Walmart!
    SDAddick said:

    SDAddick said:

    Officials are reporting that he used an assault-style gun. Because those are legal. What can ya do? The NRA is an incredibly strong lobbying group with ties to Russia now. They propagate fear not just of the government taking your guns but so of black and brown people. I don't think anything will be done about this for a long time, and personally I'm pretty numb to it at this point.

    At what point do you think it'd be time for you to do something about it though?

    This is what really bothers me about the entire situation, the amount of Americans who don't agree, yet shrug their shoulders and carry on. There must be a tipping point, surely?
    It was Sandy Hook. That was just over 5 years ago. Since then there have been ~300 school shootings alone.

    By the way, this is not a something that dies because of a lack of public support. Bans on assault weapons, background checks, and a Federal registry of guns polled at around 80% favorable in the wake of the Vegas shooting last year. This is down to a small, vocal, and well funded minority. And Democrats are absolutely terrified of the NRA in House, State, and local elections.

    This is someone who was widely considered a rising star in the Democratic Party a couple years ago.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wqOApBLPio
    Then why is nothing ever done about it, why dont we see mass protests on the streets of Washington, why do you allow your country to be held hostage by a group like the NRA?

    (By you, I obviously don't mean you as an individual)
    Because they have all the guns!

    (There's a long, intricate answer here and I'm not trying to be flippant with you Stu but it's like 4:15 in the morning the day after 17 kids went to school and died and this is the best I can do).
  • NRA are trying to ban schools. :smiley:
  • thenewbie said:

    Wilma said:

    There's a good series on Sky Atlantic at the moment called Active Shooter - https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/ccaaad18-2721-483e-a9c2-2c497f42d4a2/active-shooter/episodes/season-1/episode-1 - looking into these mass shooting events, usually from relatives, people involved, medical and police etc.

    The first episode featured parents of a man killed in the cinema shooting at Aurora. They have launched a campaign called No Notoriety - https://nonotoriety.com/ - trying to limit the coverage that the shooters get on TV. A lot of copycat shootings occur shortly after mass shooting events due to the 'fame' these individuals get.

    a campaign to limit the exposure shooters get as opposed to a campaign to eradicate such events. says it all really.

    It's not an either/or situation though. The shooter gets discussed at length, gets remembered... Its the killers' names associated with Columbine, Sandy Hook, and Aurora and all the number of others. But without looking it up, who here could name any single one victim of any of these shootings?

    The infamy and notoriety appeals to a certain frame of mind, taking that away certainly wouldn't make these killings any MORE frequent.
    without looking it up I couldn't remember any of the perps names. There are so many of these incidents in the States their notoriety lasts for a matter of days before you move on to the next one.

    Perhaps not the US shooters, but I suspect you remember the murderers names from Dunblane (almost 12 years ago) and Hungerford (31 years ago this summer).
  • If I were the parent of a child murdered in circumstances such as these I am not sure what would prevent me from, in due course, buying an assault rifle and gradually picking off the influential morons who have consistently voted against any kind of gun reform in the face of massacre after massacre.
    Live by the gun...
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  • IdleHans said:

    If I were the parent of a child murdered in circumstances such as these I am not sure what would prevent me from, in due course, buying an assault rifle and gradually picking off the influential morons who have consistently voted against any kind of gun reform in the face of massacre after massacre.
    Live by the gun...

    Starting with Wayne LaPierre
  • JWADDICK said:

    Lots of people sending prayers. That’ll help.

    Can't hurt can it?
    Sadly there are many deluded people in The United States who think preying is the only solution and that's when it does becomes harmful.
  • During that interview with piers Morgan he came out with if we had guns we would be able to stop all the terror attacks where guns were involved. Unless I've completely missed or forgot, how many attacks has there been in this country involving guns?

    Bloke supports gun ownership and comes out with complete NRA propaganda to support it. under his leadership there's no chance of things changing. Even if there was a huge incident. Not like any of these aren't huge.
    Kids die but nothing but a few words of condolence. He doesn't want to tackle the problem and I doubt any in leadership in the past or future want to tackle it.
  • If only the US could use a tragedy like this to make an actual change in gun laws, as happened in the UK after the Dunblane killings.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/dunblane-s-snowdrops-how-school-shooting-changed-british-gun-laws-n535671
  • During that interview with piers Morgan he came out with if we had guns we would be able to stop all the terror attacks where guns were involved. Unless I've completely missed or forgot, how many attacks has there been in this country involving guns?

    Bloke supports gun ownership and comes out with complete NRA propaganda to support it. under his leadership there's no chance of things changing. Even if there was a huge incident. Not like any of these aren't huge.
    Kids die but nothing but a few words of condolence. He doesn't want to tackle the problem and I doubt any in leadership in the past or future want to tackle it.

    I've heard that argument and it's Ludicrous. If guns were legal here terrorists would use them. Using the London Bridge attack as an example, where 8 innocents died, a lot less than last night. 3 men come into a pub and start spraying people with machine guns, people will be shot before they are able to pull their guns out and shoot back with what I guess would be pistols. Death count would be far higher but try explaining that to an American.
  • Don't forget Port Arthur massacre and gun banning in Australia. Both after this and Dunblane there was opposition from gun owners. Takes some real leadership, which major and Blair delivered to their credit.
  • Another lunatic comment from Trump.

    "So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!"

    He was known to FBI last year after someobody saw comments he posted on You Tube, yet the authorities did nothing.

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  • If I ever move to the States, I'm going to mount a couple of these mothers either side of my front door

    M134 General Electric Minigun

    image

    Automatic weapons aren’t legal anymore, right? Well, sort of. Laws prohibit ordinary citizens from owning any fully automatic rifle made after 1986. This puppy sneaks in just under the wire, and if you’re looking for a device that spits hot death at an insane rate, here it is. The M134 has a capacity of 166 shots per second, and packs so much recoil that you’d rip your arms off if you tried to hold it and shoot.
  • NRA are trying to ban schools. :smiley:

    They might as well, most Americans grow up pig ignorant anyway.
  • Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are completely safe if used responsibly.

    As Trump so intelligently points out more needs to be done to enforce regulations re their use. The gunman in the latest shooting had mental health issues - neighbours and classmates should have done more to report this. I think Trump very fairly is laying some of the blame for the shooting on those who didn't flag the gunman's mental health problems.

    The gun laws work perfectly providing everyone is on board.

    I’m sorry. Guns do kill people and suggesting that in the hands of responsible people they would be harmless is just lunatic.

    Come off cloud nine where guns are tools and visit planet America where you couldn’t find a responsible person if you looked for ever.

    Sort of.

  • Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are completely safe if used responsibly.

    As Trump so intelligently points out more needs to be done to enforce regulations re their use. The gunman in the latest shooting had mental health issues - neighbours and classmates should have done more to report this. I think Trump very fairly is laying some of the blame for the shooting on those who didn't flag the gunman's mental health problems.

    The gun laws work perfectly providing everyone is on board.

    I’m sorry. Guns do kill people and suggesting that in the hands of responsible people they would be harmless is just lunatic.

    Come off cloud nine where guns are tools and visit planet America where you couldn’t find a responsible person if you looked for ever.

    Sort of.

    A tiny bit of a whoosh there, SHG - Hoof it doesn't always mean what he says as far as Trump is concerned!!
  • Hangs head in shame
  • Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are completely safe if used responsibly.

    As Trump so intelligently points out more needs to be done to enforce regulations re their use. The gunman in the latest shooting had mental health issues - neighbours and classmates should have done more to report this. I think Trump very fairly is laying some of the blame for the shooting on those who didn't flag the gunman's mental health problems.

    The gun laws work perfectly providing everyone is on board.

    Not exactly true, over 50 people were shot by toddlers in the US last year. The number of children accidentally killed, or who accidentally killed other was 120 in 1998, and presumably has risen in line with population (can't find recent figures). These are all deaths that literally only happened because of guns, i.e. none were because the killer wanted to kill and would have found a way to do it with or without guns existing.

    From those figures we can see that accidental gun deaths caused by under 16s in the US is more than double the total gun deaths in the UK.

    Guns might not kill people, but they allow people to kill people completely accidentally, and when it's not an accident they allow death to metered out more quickly, easily and from a greater distance, than any other method available to the general populace.
  • bobmunro said:

    Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are completely safe if used responsibly.

    As Trump so intelligently points out more needs to be done to enforce regulations re their use. The gunman in the latest shooting had mental health issues - neighbours and classmates should have done more to report this. I think Trump very fairly is laying some of the blame for the shooting on those who didn't flag the gunman's mental health problems.

    The gun laws work perfectly providing everyone is on board.

    I’m sorry. Guns do kill people and suggesting that in the hands of responsible people they would be harmless is just lunatic.

    Come off cloud nine where guns are tools and visit planet America where you couldn’t find a responsible person if you looked for ever.

    Sort of.

    A tiny bit of a whoosh there, SHG - Hoof it doesn't always mean what he says as far as Trump is concerned!!
    I was trying to argue in the style of Trump and the NRA! Very easy to construct a nonsensical argument...
This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!