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Another Shooting In America?

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    Wtf



    They seems to be a tide turning and some companies are beginning to make a stand.
    The rent a car companies used to give discounts to NRA members. WTF, actually encouraging people to get into guns to get a cheap car!
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    edited February 2018
    bobmunro said:

    Scoham said:
    What an absolute disgrace of a man. How the hell did the world get to this when the de facto leader of that world is mentally and morally unfit to lead a dog let alone the free world.
    Yet there are still people, even on a more thoughtful forum like this, prepared to defend him and his views. I just don't get it and cannot imagine their thought processes.
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    Wtf



    They seems to be a tide turning and some companies are beginning to make a stand.
    Just watched that clip - its f***ing unbelievable. Madness....

    Hopefully corporate sponsors being shamed into dumping the NRA is the start of something. Lives don't matter to them, but money does.

    As for Dana Loesch... she is quite possibly the most terrifying woman I've ever seen. I'm not going to pollute Charlton Life by posting any of her NRA recruitment videos on here, but the bile and poison that drips from her every word is utterly chilling.
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    bobmunro said:

    Scoham said:
    What an absolute disgrace of a man. How the hell did the world get to this when the de facto leader of that world is mentally and morally unfit to lead a dog let alone the free world.
    Yet there are still people, even on a more thoughtful forum like this, prepared to defend him and his views. I just don't get it and cannot imagine their thought processes. Mind you even they've gone noticeably quieter this week.
    Agreed.

    Anyone who supports the 2nd Amendment/NRA has blood on their hands - and the (nearly) half of the US electorate that voted who voted for him are all batshit crazy - there is no other explanation.
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    Scoham said:
    With each new shooting they pivot the argument. To advocate guns stop mass shootings when there are reports of four armed officers not entering the school must surely work against them this time. If highly trained police officers freeze, what is a teacher with a weekend of training likely to achieve?
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    You don’t get much dumber....

    https://youtu.be/tQt-qbjr-4M
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    Scoham said:

    Lack of belief in God and sexual morals is partly to blame (but definitely not guns).

    There was an American lady oth my train to work yesterday. She was trying to start a conversation with anyone even though no one wanted to.

    She was convinced spiritual change is the only way to stop these killings.
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    Scoham said:

    Lack of belief in God and sexual morals is partly to blame (but definitely not guns).

    There was an American lady oth my train to work yesterday. She was trying to start a conversation with anyone even though no one wanted to.

    She was convinced spiritual change is the only way to stop these killings.
    You get them all on your train don't you!!

    She sort of has a point though. Some people hold the right to bear arms an article of faith. It almost requires a religious conversion for them to put their guns down. Good luck with that.
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    There’s one thing about the last few days that I’ve found disturbing of which both sides of the argument have been guilty - the demonization of the deputy who failed to act.
    Yes, he didn’t do anything despite protection of those kids being his job. It appears he failed at his job and has paid for this with his career. And rightly so.

    However, he is being repeatedly named and condemned for his actions (or lack of action) by pretty much everyone from the grieving students to Trump himself. I can’t help but think the guy is already going to be paying for his failure with the guilt that he must feel.

    We’d all like to think we’d stand up and be counted if put in a difficult situation, especially if protection is our job. But I honestly don’t know, hand on heart, how I would react if put in his situation. Would I go in all guns blazing? Or be cool and calculating? Would I panic? Or maybe I’d freeze? I genuinely don’t know.

    Of course, he’s not covered himself in glory, but I think he needs to be left to deal with his own grief and undoubted feelings of guilt. No, scratch that, he needs help and counseling to make sure he doesn’t become one of those tragic stories of people sinking into depression and taking their own life. What he doesn’t need is for the world and his wife to keep digging him out for being a coward. He knows he could’ve done better and he’s got to live with it. Don’t make it worse for him or he may become the 18th victim of this terrible crime.

    Great post.
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    There’s one thing about the last few days that I’ve found disturbing of which both sides of the argument have been guilty - the demonization of the deputy who failed to act.
    Yes, he didn’t do anything despite protection of those kids being his job. It appears he failed at his job and has paid for this with his career. And rightly so.

    However, he is being repeatedly named and condemned for his actions (or lack of action) by pretty much everyone from the grieving students to Trump himself. I can’t help but think the guy is already going to be paying for his failure with the guilt that he must feel.

    We’d all like to think we’d stand up and be counted if put in a difficult situation, especially if protection is our job. But I honestly don’t know, hand on heart, how I would react if put in his situation. Would I go in all guns blazing? Or be cool and calculating? Would I panic? Or maybe I’d freeze? I genuinely don’t know.

    Of course, he’s not covered himself in glory, but I think he needs to be left to deal with his own grief and undoubted feelings of guilt. No, scratch that, he needs help and counseling to make sure he doesn’t become one of those tragic stories of people sinking into depression and taking their own life. What he doesn’t need is for the world and his wife to keep digging him out for being a coward. He knows he could’ve done better and he’s got to live with it. Don’t make it worse for him or he may become the 18th victim of this terrible crime.

    I don't disagree with the essence of what you say. I'm not sure how many people as an individual would run into a situation where someone is using an assault rifle. If you've got a glock or other 9mm, you've got little chance against someone with a fully automatic assault rifle. At the Hebdo killings police were quick to disengage under automatic gunfire. I wonder how many officers 'passively' responded to the North Hollywood shootings? Whilst many did respond their response was ineffective until a Swat team arrived suitably equipped.

    It's easy to judge someone else. It's also easy to know that Trump would be behind many others putting their lives on the line, whilst paying off anyone who wished to criticise. I'm sure we'd all wish to engage someone threatening multiple people.

    Unlike Hollywood and bullshit like CSI , reality such as the North Hollywood shootout shows engaging with service revolvers is utterly ineffective in terms of lethality with anyone prepared and body armoured: Whether this shooter was or wasn't, the fear of hearing lethal automatic gunfire is something few of us know. The only way it carried an effect in the North Hollywood shootout was a critical mass of officers applied pressure on the perpetrators slowing their progress until the SWAT team arrived 20 mins later. That wasn't 1-5 officers with service revolvers but around 300 officers responding.

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    1StevieG said:

    You don’t get much dumber....

    https://youtu.be/tQt-qbjr-4M

    In the video, Trump talks with a bit of a put down about people having idealistic ideas about “ Utopian schools where there is no protection and no guns.”
    Donald, you total twat, that is not some utopian dream, that is what MOST schools around the world are like.
    His body language in that video is remarkable for a President who is supposed to be listening, after yet another gun catastrophe.
    Their President typifies everything that appears to be wrong with the USA.
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    3blokes said:

    1StevieG said:

    You don’t get much dumber....

    https://youtu.be/tQt-qbjr-4M

    In the video, Trump talks with a bit of a put down about people having idealistic ideas about “ Utopian schools where there is no protection and no guns.”
    Donald, you total twat, that is not some utopian dream, that is what MOST schools around the world are like.
    His body language in that video is remarkable for a President who is supposed to be listening, after yet another gun catastrophe.
    Their President typifies everything that appears to be wrong with the USA.
    Trump is a pathetic disgusting excuse for a human and it's truly shocking that he is the US president. I can't see that this morally bankrupt individual has a single redeeming feature.

    I accept that this could also be applied to a lot of other politicians so he's not unique.
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    IdleHans said:

    Thank you for your consistently measured and articulate perspectives, @SDAddick. I'm sure many of us appreciate it.
    I have a few American friends and can't associate any of them with the nonsense that happens there, though it's easy for us in Europe to tar a whole nation with the idiot brush when your system permits a boorish, misogynist loudmouth with clearly no sense of self-awareness to become leader.

    Thanks mate.

    It's always important to remember that what we see online, or people who take strong stances in the media, are by no means the median of the country, both left and right. There are a lot of people, a majority, who own guns for recreation or protection and handle them responsibly and it's not a huge issue for them. But what we see, and this is amplified by a 24 hour need cycle and a President who is very much of that mindset, is that those who shout the loudest get the most attention. And it's something I have to remind myself of constantly.

    The historian on 538 podcast last week whose name I can't remember at the moment said "people who own guns are now bad people." And I've personally never thought about it that way, but it was a good reminder that yeah some people own a gun and it's not a major part of their lives. It's not an AR 15, and they're not amassing an arsenal. And I just try to remember that, in my better moments at least.
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    edited February 2018
    This. All of this. I think it's like 11 or 12 days. But I am so floored by these kids man. They're incredible. And we're starting to see the tiniest of cracks between staunch conservatives and the NRA. A lot of that is very minor, things like raising the assault weapon age to 21 or background checks. But it makes me wonder what a serious, concerted effort is capable of achieving. I have such a hope that these kids will one day rule the world.

    I think of Donald Trump and some congressional Republicans as bring like goalkeepers who flap at things constantly. What do you want to do? Put lots of crosses in, put it into the corridor of uncertainty and make them deal with it. And most of the time they will, but you know there's a rick or two to be had with pressure. And the Democrats are absolutely awful about that. But these kids, and some of the grassroots organizers we're seeing start to emerge get it. They get that you have to attack, not just sit back and defend and basically hope not to concede.
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    There’s one thing about the last few days that I’ve found disturbing of which both sides of the argument have been guilty - the demonization of the deputy who failed to act.
    Yes, he didn’t do anything despite protection of those kids being his job. It appears he failed at his job and has paid for this with his career. And rightly so.

    However, he is being repeatedly named and condemned for his actions (or lack of action) by pretty much everyone from the grieving students to Trump himself. I can’t help but think the guy is already going to be paying for his failure with the guilt that he must feel.

    We’d all like to think we’d stand up and be counted if put in a difficult situation, especially if protection is our job. But I honestly don’t know, hand on heart, how I would react if put in his situation. Would I go in all guns blazing? Or be cool and calculating? Would I panic? Or maybe I’d freeze? I genuinely don’t know.

    Of course, he’s not covered himself in glory, but I think he needs to be left to deal with his own grief and undoubted feelings of guilt. No, scratch that, he needs help and counseling to make sure he doesn’t become one of those tragic stories of people sinking into depression and taking their own life. What he doesn’t need is for the world and his wife to keep digging him out for being a coward. He knows he could’ve done better and he’s got to live with it. Don’t make it worse for him or he may become the 18th victim of this terrible crime.

    Great post.

    It breaks my heart to know that the President of the United States is shaming this man on Twitter. He was outgunned completely and he may not have the proper training for what to do in this instance.

    Or his training may be "try to contain the situation and call authorities because any armed response you have is just as likely to make things worse and could result in civilians being caught up in friendly fire."

    I've seen a statistic kicking around that the shooting accuracy for police is somewhere around 20%. So imagine him firing his gun and 8-10 more bullets flying around in this situation.
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    Missed It said:

    SDAddick said:

    There’s one thing about the last few days that I’ve found disturbing of which both sides of the argument have been guilty - the demonization of the deputy who failed to act.
    Yes, he didn’t do anything despite protection of those kids being his job. It appears he failed at his job and has paid for this with his career. And rightly so.

    However, he is being repeatedly named and condemned for his actions (or lack of action) by pretty much everyone from the grieving students to Trump himself. I can’t help but think the guy is already going to be paying for his failure with the guilt that he must feel.

    We’d all like to think we’d stand up and be counted if put in a difficult situation, especially if protection is our job. But I honestly don’t know, hand on heart, how I would react if put in his situation. Would I go in all guns blazing? Or be cool and calculating? Would I panic? Or maybe I’d freeze? I genuinely don’t know.

    Of course, he’s not covered himself in glory, but I think he needs to be left to deal with his own grief and undoubted feelings of guilt. No, scratch that, he needs help and counseling to make sure he doesn’t become one of those tragic stories of people sinking into depression and taking their own life. What he doesn’t need is for the world and his wife to keep digging him out for being a coward. He knows he could’ve done better and he’s got to live with it. Don’t make it worse for him or he may become the 18th victim of this terrible crime.

    Great post.

    It breaks my heart to know that the President of the United States is shaming this man on Twitter. He was outgunned completely and he may not have the proper training for what to do in this instance.

    Or his training may be "try to contain the situation and call authorities because any armed response you have is just as likely to make things worse and could result in civilians being caught up in friendly fire."

    I've seen a statistic kicking around that the shooting accuracy for police is somewhere around 20%. So imagine him firing his gun and 8-10 more bullets flying around in this situation.

    Hitting anything with a 9mm pistol beyond 20 yards is an achievement. Movies have given most people a completely ridiculous idea of the weapon's capabilities.

    I've had to do some training for close quarter fighting in buildings. Just a few days with a Glock 17 and simunition. I know enough to know that the 3 days training I had was nowhere near enough to do it properly, and if I actually had to confront such a situation there is no f-ing way I'd do it on my own.

    I don't blame the security guard for not going in, he's going to have enough trouble living with himself over it anyway. He's going to need help dealing with that, not a load of shit from know-it-alls who weren't there.

    It's absolutely typical of the draft dodging coward that currently sits in the Oval Office to try and chicken-shame the poor bloke though.
    its the same as when you get idiots, unfortunately on here too, who say things like "why don't they just shoot them in the leg or arm to stop them" ?
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    edited February 2018

    I see that Trump has said that ‘I believe I’d run in there even if I didn’t have a weapon’ in reference to the latest school shooting. Does that prick even hear the words that come out of his own mouth? Delusional draft dodging twat.

    This so-called bravery coming from a person that consistently contradicts himself. Actually starting to feel a little bit sorry for him because there is absolutely no one around him reeling him in from his fantasy world. And it will come back to haunt him one day but I suppose when you are 71 you don’t give a monkeys what you say and the fallout that it causes.
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    DRAddick said:

    Missed It said:

    SDAddick said:

    There’s one thing about the last few days that I’ve found disturbing of which both sides of the argument have been guilty - the demonization of the deputy who failed to act.
    Yes, he didn’t do anything despite protection of those kids being his job. It appears he failed at his job and has paid for this with his career. And rightly so.

    However, he is being repeatedly named and condemned for his actions (or lack of action) by pretty much everyone from the grieving students to Trump himself. I can’t help but think the guy is already going to be paying for his failure with the guilt that he must feel.

    We’d all like to think we’d stand up and be counted if put in a difficult situation, especially if protection is our job. But I honestly don’t know, hand on heart, how I would react if put in his situation. Would I go in all guns blazing? Or be cool and calculating? Would I panic? Or maybe I’d freeze? I genuinely don’t know.

    Of course, he’s not covered himself in glory, but I think he needs to be left to deal with his own grief and undoubted feelings of guilt. No, scratch that, he needs help and counseling to make sure he doesn’t become one of those tragic stories of people sinking into depression and taking their own life. What he doesn’t need is for the world and his wife to keep digging him out for being a coward. He knows he could’ve done better and he’s got to live with it. Don’t make it worse for him or he may become the 18th victim of this terrible crime.

    Great post.

    It breaks my heart to know that the President of the United States is shaming this man on Twitter. He was outgunned completely and he may not have the proper training for what to do in this instance.

    Or his training may be "try to contain the situation and call authorities because any armed response you have is just as likely to make things worse and could result in civilians being caught up in friendly fire."

    I've seen a statistic kicking around that the shooting accuracy for police is somewhere around 20%. So imagine him firing his gun and 8-10 more bullets flying around in this situation.

    Hitting anything with a 9mm pistol beyond 20 yards is an achievement. Movies have given most people a completely ridiculous idea of the weapon's capabilities.

    I've had to do some training for close quarter fighting in buildings. Just a few days with a Glock 17 and simunition. I know enough to know that the 3 days training I had was nowhere near enough to do it properly, and if I actually had to confront such a situation there is no f-ing way I'd do it on my own.

    I don't blame the security guard for not going in, he's going to have enough trouble living with himself over it anyway. He's going to need help dealing with that, not a load of shit from know-it-alls who weren't there.

    It's absolutely typical of the draft dodging coward that currently sits in the Oval Office to try and chicken-shame the poor bloke though.
    its the same as when you get idiots, unfortunately on here too, who say things like "why don't they just shoot them in the leg or arm to stop them" ?
    It does my head in, it really does. The whole idea of arming teachers comes from the same stupidity. There are so many things wrong with that scheme I don't even know where to start.

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    I see that Trump has said that ‘I believe I’d run in there even if I didn’t have a weapon’ in reference to the latest school shooting. Does that prick even hear the words that come out of his own mouth? Delusional draft dodging twat.

    Maybe the best thing he's ever said, can we arm him right now, he'll shoot himself in no time, I'm sure.
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    I see that Trump has said that ‘I believe I’d run in there even if I didn’t have a weapon’ in reference to the latest school shooting. Does that prick even hear the words that come out of his own mouth? Delusional draft dodging twat.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/43202075
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