Even though it is hard to buy a gun in the UK we are only the 41st safe 'country' in the world. Iceland is top, probably because hardly anyone lives there. Providing guns for teachers is not going to make schools safer. It will however ratchet up the fear factor and make school environments more scary. There are no easy answers to the gun control issue as there are already far too many guns in private hands. I think making ammunition extremely hard to buy would help but what do I know?
More guns = more safety. FACT
It's the lack of guns that is the problem in the USA.
Even though it is hard to buy a gun in the UK we are only the 41st safe 'country' in the world. Iceland is top, probably because hardly anyone lives there. Providing guns for teachers is not going to make schools safer. It will however ratchet up the fear factor and make school environments more scary. There are no easy answers to the gun control issue as there are already far too many guns in private hands. I think making ammunition extremely hard to buy would help but what do I know?
More guns = more safety. FACT
It's the lack of guns that is the problem in the USA.
Absolutely.
Always thought there was an error in the second amendment, it should have actually read 'the right to arm bears'.
How would arming teachers have stopped the shootings in the Orlando nightclub, the Texas church or the Las Vegas concert? As a 'solution' this is idiotic even for Trump's standards and as a deflection tactic it is hopeless.
Trump simultaneously shits on the graves of murdered children and perpetuates lies about mental illness in one phrase. I wish someone would shoot the cunt now.
How would arming teachers have stopped the shootings in the Orlando nightclub, the Texas church or the Las Vegas concert? As a 'solution' this is idiotic even for Trump's standards.
It obviously won’t......but by using kids as the bait he will hope to pull the wool over the eyes of parents of young ‘uns.
How would arming teachers have stopped the shootings in the Orlando nightclub, the Texas church or the Las Vegas concert? As a 'solution' this is idiotic even for Trump's standards.
It obviously won’t......but by using kids as the bait he will hope to pull the wool over the eyes of parents of young ‘uns.
Even Americans aren't THAT stupid. Well, most of them.
(No offence @SDAddick, but the reputation of your compatriots' mental acuity over here is not strong.)
How would arming teachers have stopped the shootings in the Orlando nightclub, the Texas church or the Las Vegas concert? As a 'solution' this is idiotic even for Trump's standards and as a deflection tactic it is hopeless.
And as mentioned in the other thread this school, and Pulse, had an armed police officer and armed security guard respectively.
Both were drastically outgunned by the shooters. And life is not a movie, it's not a case of the good guy underdog can stop the bad guy with some clever maneuvers and wit. This is real life where the shooter can fire ~40-60 rounds per minute.
But this the exactly what Trump wants for teachers. Except those teachers would have vastly less training.
How would arming teachers have stopped the shootings in the Orlando nightclub, the Texas church or the Las Vegas concert? As a 'solution' this is idiotic even for Trump's standards and as a deflection tactic it is hopeless.
And as mentioned in the other thread this school, and Pulse, had an armed police officer and armed security guard respectively.
Both were drastically outgunned by the shooters. And life is not a movie, it's not a case of the good guy underdog can stop the bad guy with some clever maneuvers and wit. This is real life where the shooter can fire ~40-60 rounds per minute.
But this the exactly what Trump wants for teachers. Except those teachers would have vastly less training.
Maybe there should be an OFSTED style grading.
Outstanding: Killed at least one armed 15 year old or put at least 3 armed under 16s in hospital.
Good: Shot but did not kill one armed under 16 yr old.
Adequate: Threatened one under 16 yr old with shooting.
Trump's comments just get worse & worse. Now saying that teachers should go on firearm courses, get a "bonus" for being the "one" to take out a gunman or the schools should employ ex-military to be the guard.
No need to do any of that if they just ban the sale of guns !!!
Unfortunately due to the clusterfuck out there, there would still be a need to come up with other plans, because even if guns sales completely ceased tomorrow, not a single thing will change.
The horse has well and truly bolted and I can’t see how, with a reported 300 million guns in circulation, any such controls or decisions will make any difference possibly ever, let alone in ours and future generations.
A shame but I think it’s too late and we’ll just have to endure these horrific and tragic incidents for ever more.
How would arming teachers have stopped the shootings in the Orlando nightclub, the Texas church or the Las Vegas concert? As a 'solution' this is idiotic even for Trump's standards and as a deflection tactic it is hopeless.
It’s all bluster and fake concern. Politicians have to say something and as there is no intention of ridding the United States of it’s weapons arsenal because the political classes there are all in the NRA trough.
While the world marvels at the stupidity of America the solution is to arm more people and sell more guns.
Unfortunately due to the clusterfuck out there, there would still be a need to come up with other plans, because even if guns sales could completely ceased tomorrow, not a single thing will change.
The horse has well and truly bolted and I can’t see how, with a reported 300 million guns in circulation, any such controls or decisions will make any difference possibly ever, let alone in ours and future generations.
A shame but I think it’s too late and we’ll just have to endure these horrific and tragic incidents for ever more.
I disagree to some extent. I think there are ways to implement buyback programs, checks and registrations on all weapons within a certain timeframe, and the immediate ceasing of the sale and distribution of semi-automatic and assault weapons. I think you could ban high-capacity magazine, bump stocks, bulk ammo purchases, register ammo, etc. and that would be a great sort of "back door" in. That would not stop mass shootings, let alone gun deaths, but it would make it harder in the medium to long term. And just because we can't stop all shootings doesn't mean we should do nothing.
On the other hand, whether or not there is the political and public will to do any of the above is another question entirely.
I recommend this week's fivethirtyeight podcast, in which they talk about how Americans feels about guns, and how that differs depending on how you ask certain questions. They also do a sort of brief history of how we got here.
Also, it's really important to note that the NRA is very much a part of the broader white, nationalist, isolationist identity politics that have been in the ascendency for the last decade (or rather that have always been a huge part of this country but have just been more mobilized since a black man was elected President). I'll look for some good writing on this, I remember readings things around the Vegas and Pulse shootings that talked about this. But I think it's important to understand guns are not an issue apart, guns are part of a broader tapestry in American political and cultural identity. I would argue they are part of a whole, rather than the whole itself.
Unfortunately due to the clusterfuck out there, there would still be a need to come up with other plans, because even if guns sales could completely ceased tomorrow, not a single thing will change.
The horse has well and truly bolted and I can’t see how, with a reported 300 million guns in circulation, any such controls or decisions will make any difference possibly ever, let alone in ours and future generations.
A shame but I think it’s too late and we’ll just have to endure these horrific and tragic incidents for ever more.
No can't agree. Social expectations and acceptability has a big effect on behaviour. Ridiculous as it may sound the message that shooting people is wrong has not been sufficiently made. Banning these weapons may serve to undermine "gun culture" with some benefits. Social nudging in combination with legislation does work. Look at seat belts, smoking and drink driving. Change is possible and can be influenced if the political will is there.
Had an interesting conversation with someone today, who has been on several trips to the USA to look at firearm practices over there, as part of his work. I asked him for his take on gun control over there, and he simply said that unfortunately "they just love their guns too much". He said he thought it would take two generations to change the mindset and the the gun problem out there. There would have to be a date set on which future practice would change, with the focus being on the young, rather than trying to alter engrained gun culture in the older generations. He stated there was simply no quick fix possible, and the NRA were too powerful a lobby group for any US President to oppose, other than by gradual step by step change. Though he dismissed Trump's plan to ban the add on to semi automatic guns as a distraction from the issue of assault weapons being available to buy by the general public. He also said that if we lived out there, a lot of us would probably end up having a gun too. Just because out there, it is part of the way of life. It was an another insight into the issue, and whilst it explained some of the thought processes behind it, it just made me thankful that we have much tighter controls over here.
As far as your first paragraph goes, I’d love you to be right and maybe to a degree you will be.
I don’t doubt the number of potential policies and schemes that could be available to aid this.
I just think those who still want their guns, whether that be due to their criminal intentions, their apparent security needs or their apparent rights (and from what we read, that would be a very significant part of the population), they will be unlikely to willingly hand their guns back.
It would take generations but if they banned sales right now(other for those who need them like Farmer's having a shotgun), made the penalty for being caught carrying in public suitably harsh, offered to buy back guns from private citizens and had a gun amnesty in an effort to get the illegal guns off the market then surely slowly things would improve.
As far as your first paragraph goes, I’d love you to be right and maybe to a degree you will be.
I don’t doubt the number of potential policies and schemes that could be available to aid this.
I just think those who still want their guns, whether that be due to their criminal intentions, their apparent security needs or their apparent rights (and from what we read, that would be a very significant part of the population), they will be unlikely to willingly hand their guns back.
I think you are right.
But it's amazing what social pressure and bureaucracy can do. We never thought we could get people to stop smoking and there was outrage when it became a legal requirement to wear seat belts.
I think at least there is a clear obligation on the US authorities to withdraw support for the gun lobby.
Thank you for your consistently measured and articulate perspectives, @SDAddick. I'm sure many of us appreciate it. I have a few American friends and can't associate any of them with the nonsense that happens there, though it's easy for us in Europe to tar a whole nation with the idiot brush when your system permits a boorish, misogynist loudmouth with clearly no sense of self-awareness to become leader.
300 million firearms in circulation, whilst that is am inconceivable amount of anything, someone who owns a factory that makes weapons is happy. Probably wasn't his or her children that were killed though was it.
Supply and demand, if I ran a cafe and tried to chop the menu to a bake and grill only option is probably go bust in a fortnight. Even though the double dipped chips and fried sausage, black pudding and bacon I'm selling to my loyal customers will possibly play a contributary factor in their death they pat my leccy bill.
I've handled a few firearms and whilst I won't dent they are fun to shoot, they scare the shite out of me. A bit like chainsaws
I'm beyond getting involved in the gym control rows, nobody is going to be shot accidentally in my house, infant or otherwise because I don't have firearms
They seems to be a tide turning and some companies are beginning to make a stand.
Just watched that clip - its f***ing unbelievable. Madness....
I suggest you don’t watch Trumps speech at the same conference. There is so much talk about stopping people with mental illness getting guns yet here is a President with access to the nuclear codes who show some signs of, let’s say, instability.
Comments
It's the lack of guns that is the problem in the USA.
Always thought there was an error in the second amendment, it should have actually read 'the right to arm bears'.
Well, most of them.
(No offence @SDAddick, but the reputation of your compatriots' mental acuity over here is not strong.)
Both were drastically outgunned by the shooters. And life is not a movie, it's not a case of the good guy underdog can stop the bad guy with some clever maneuvers and wit. This is real life where the shooter can fire ~40-60 rounds per minute.
But this the exactly what Trump wants for teachers. Except those teachers would have vastly less training.
Outstanding: Killed at least one armed 15 year old or put at least 3 armed under 16s in hospital.
Good: Shot but did not kill one armed under 16 yr old.
Adequate: Threatened one under 16 yr old with shooting.
Poor: Didn't shoot or threaten any pupils.
No need to do any of that if they just ban the sale of guns !!!
Unfortunately due to the clusterfuck out there, there would still be a need to come up with other plans, because even if guns sales completely ceased tomorrow, not a single thing will change.
The horse has well and truly bolted and I can’t see how, with a reported 300 million guns in circulation, any such controls or decisions will make any difference possibly ever, let alone in ours and future generations.
A shame but I think it’s too late and we’ll just have to endure these horrific and tragic incidents for ever more.
While the world marvels at the stupidity of America the solution is to arm more people and sell more guns.
On the other hand, whether or not there is the political and public will to do any of the above is another question entirely.
I recommend this week's fivethirtyeight podcast, in which they talk about how Americans feels about guns, and how that differs depending on how you ask certain questions. They also do a sort of brief history of how we got here.
Also, it's really important to note that the NRA is very much a part of the broader white, nationalist, isolationist identity politics that have been in the ascendency for the last decade (or rather that have always been a huge part of this country but have just been more mobilized since a black man was elected President). I'll look for some good writing on this, I remember readings things around the Vegas and Pulse shootings that talked about this. But I think it's important to understand guns are not an issue apart, guns are part of a broader tapestry in American political and cultural identity. I would argue they are part of a whole, rather than the whole itself.
Banning these weapons may serve to undermine "gun culture" with some benefits.
Social nudging in combination with legislation does work. Look at seat belts, smoking and drink driving.
Change is possible and can be influenced if the political will is there.
He also said that if we lived out there, a lot of us would probably end up having a gun too. Just because out there, it is part of the way of life.
It was an another insight into the issue, and whilst it explained some of the thought processes behind it, it just made me thankful that we have much tighter controls over here.
I don’t doubt the number of potential policies and schemes that could be available to aid this.
I just think those who still want their guns, whether that be due to their criminal intentions, their apparent security needs or their apparent rights (and from what we read, that would be a very significant part of the population), they will be unlikely to willingly hand their guns back.
But it's amazing what social pressure and bureaucracy can do. We never thought we could get people to stop smoking and there was outrage when it became a legal requirement to wear seat belts.
I think at least there is a clear obligation on the US authorities to withdraw support for the gun lobby.
I just hope they find the will sooner rather than later.
I have a few American friends and can't associate any of them with the nonsense that happens there, though it's easy for us in Europe to tar a whole nation with the idiot brush when your system permits a boorish, misogynist loudmouth with clearly no sense of self-awareness to become leader.
Wtf
They seems to be a tide turning and some companies are beginning to make a stand.
Supply and demand, if I ran a cafe and tried to chop the menu to a bake and grill only option is probably go bust in a fortnight. Even though the double dipped chips and fried sausage, black pudding and bacon I'm selling to my loyal customers will possibly play a contributary factor in their death they pat my leccy bill.
I've handled a few firearms and whilst I won't dent they are fun to shoot, they scare the shite out of me. A bit like chainsaws
I'm beyond getting involved in the gym control rows, nobody is going to be shot accidentally in my house, infant or otherwise because I don't have firearms
Is it like a mooncup? (and I had to google that before)
also, I think stomping requires more energy than he gives credit for, so perhaps theyre not as lazy as he thinks