It's a good idea but needs to well organised, or we'll have 10 fans scattered about supporting this, 100 still outside protesting, 400 wearing black and white and 1 guy lobbing tennis balls and 2 blowing whistles.
Sure, but if a small number of fans do it, it's at least accurate ;-)
But the signs would only make sense to KM, the people on here who have read this thread and people who have watched the video of the meeting all the way through. I think maybe 90% of the fans inside the ground would not have a clue about what the 2% sign refered to.
Can assure that if others think it's a worthwhile exercise to take forward, everyone in the ground will know exactly what it is all about
Seems like a big logistical task to achieve that. Especially in such a short time frame. A lot of planning and coordination is required but I suppose a lot of Charlton fans have these things in their DNA. It will be interesting to see how successful it is. For it to have an impact most people in the ground need to know the background when the signs are held up.
It's a good idea but needs to well organised, or we'll have 10 fans scattered about supporting this, 100 still outside protesting, 400 wearing black and white and 1 guy lobbing tennis balls and 2 blowing whistles.
Sure, but if a small number of fans do it, it's at least accurate ;-)
But the signs would only make sense to KM, the people on here who have read this thread and people who have watched the video of the meeting all the way through. I think maybe 90% of the fans inside the ground would not have a clue about what the 2% sign refered to.
Can assure that if others think it's a worthwhile exercise to take forward, everyone in the ground will know exactly what it is all about
I think this is a great idea, well done whoever thought of it. Me & my old man will be available to give out the 2% leaflets if needed
It's a good idea but needs to well organised, or we'll have 10 fans scattered about supporting this, 100 still outside protesting, 400 wearing black and white and 1 guy lobbing tennis balls and 2 blowing whistles.
Sure, but if a small number of fans do it, it's at least accurate ;-)
But the signs would only make sense to KM, the people on here who have read this thread and people who have watched the video of the meeting all the way through. I think maybe 90% of the fans inside the ground would not have a clue about what the 2% sign refered to.
Can assure that if others think it's a worthwhile exercise to take forward, everyone in the ground will know exactly what it is all about
Seems like a big logistical task to achieve that. Especially in such a short time frame. A lot of planning and coordination is required but I suppose a lot of Charlton fans have these things in their DNA. It will be interesting to see how successful it is. For it to have an impact most people in the ground need to know the background when the signs are held up.
Hack the database, send an email to all the names, job done
It's a good idea but needs to well organised, or we'll have 10 fans scattered about supporting this, 100 still outside protesting, 400 wearing black and white and 1 guy lobbing tennis balls and 2 blowing whistles.
Sure, but if a small number of fans do it, it's at least accurate ;-)
But the signs would only make sense to KM, the people on here who have read this thread and people who have watched the video of the meeting all the way through. I think maybe 90% of the fans inside the ground would not have a clue about what the 2% sign refered to.
Can assure that if others think it's a worthwhile exercise to take forward, everyone in the ground will know exactly what it is all about
I think this is a great idea, well done whoever thought of it. Me & my old man will be available to give out the 2% leaflets if needed
Plus not sure the Belgian flag background is the wisest move-you know the racist / Xenophobia card is going to come out soon. Our focus should be on the protagonists not where they're from......
Not all of us think it's the brightest move to get Roland out. Using his money more wisely than he is would be better.
I'd just like to make it clear that while the image on those flyers is my Pinocchio handiwork, its been taken from here and I have nothing to do with them. I don't agree with putting the Belgian flag on any Roland Out material simply because the nationality is irrelevant and it gives them an opportunity to make out the campaign is xenophobic much in the same way KM likes to play the gender card.
Plus not sure the Belgian flag background is the wisest move-you know the racist / Xenophobia card is going to come out soon. Our focus should be on the protagonists not where they're from......
Just passing on what I saw. I have nothing to do with it.
If she keeps stating, as she did, that she has answered a question put to her time and time again, might it not trigger something deep inside her head that perhaps she's not actually explaining it very well?
With respect to your goodself, have you ever known management of any level and in all walks of life and any industry. To hold their hands up and say "I'm not very good at this job" ?? If KM was to be sacked tomorrow, it would be your fault, my fault, the fans didn't like her, she was just turning it around and needed more time. I've said my opinion before. But if you want to run it like a business then its got to be correct right the way through the business. If it was a restaurant, you could put the best grub in the world on the tables but if the concierge is an ar53hole you aint going in....
So is the campaign to spell it out in Black and White or for them To Go ? They can't do both.
Different people want different things. Most just want things approached better / differently.
Of course, there are lots of different opinions out there but would a united, or largely consistent approach or set of desired outcomes not be more effective ? Otherwise its just a lot of shouting. I assume all the printing of these flyers is being given to local companies in SE7 ! Community Club n'all.
If she keeps stating, as she did, that she has answered a question put to her time and time again, might it not trigger something deep inside her head that perhaps she's not actually explaining it very well?
With respect to your goodself, have you ever known management of any level and in all walks of life and any industry. To hold their hands up and say "I'm not very good at this job" ?? If KM was to be sacked tomorrow, it would be your fault, my fault, the fans didn't like her, she was just turning it around and needed more time. I've said my opinion before. But if you want to run it like a business then its got to be correct right the way through the business. If it was a restaurant, you could put the best grub in the world on the tables but if the concierge is an ar53hole you aint going in....
Thanks for asking, yes I have managed editorial teams for large multinational companies for about 20 years. And if I stood in front of them or shareholders and kept being asked the same questions I would realise either I was not getting my point across or they were being obtuse because they did not like the answers. I did not ask her to admit either publicly but to do so to herself. If she was asked tomorrow it would not be my fault or your fault or the fans' fault. It would be hers for not meeting the basic requirements of her job. That we are pointing out those failings does not make us accomplices to her deficiencies.
Plus not sure the Belgian flag background is the wisest move-you know the racist / Xenophobia card is going to come out soon. Our focus should be on the protagonists not where they're from......
Printing them in black and white is also a whole lot cheaper.
The Fanbase who want more than 14 chips. The Fanbase who are unhappy with the management. The Fanbase who are Gay. The Fanbase who thought the Sofa was crass. The Fanbase who thought the pie cam was gross. The Fanbase who thought that "sex on the pitch" was a cocktail. The Fanbase who don't know who Katrien Miere is. The Fanbase who are under 30. The Fanbase who have irritable vowel syndrome
A few comments from some conversations I have had with people since the meeting on Tuesday. Whether this is spin or otherwise, not sure. However, the people i have spoken to have been honest and fair with me in other circumstances, so I tend to believe, at least, the spirit in which it has been said.
* The club knew that they had to do something as it was clear the protests would grow, thus the meeting. * Effort was put into the presentation because they were keen to get over positive messages about long time plans but didn't really think about the questions they might be asked. The plan with answering questions was to try to be honest and didn't have any answers prepared. * Thought the opening outline of the issues from fans was clear and raised some genuine concerns. They were worried that they would be hammered in questioning, but thought this didn't happen. Felt that they were let off the hook with some of the questions asked and too many people making long statements rather than putting questions. * Felt that a number of the questions were about important issues, but ones that should be dealt with in other forums, especially ones about specific operational problems. Felt this took up too much of the meeting and therefore didn't get to the key issues. * It hadn't occurred to them that the way the meeting was arranged and managed might have a negative effect on how people perceive them. Was a surprise that a meeting billed as a round table between KM and RM and a smallish group of fans, but was actually a panel, with a top table to a bigger audience (including club employees) might be considered in a less than positive way. There had been some talk about having a bigger panel with other people in key roles, but decided not to do this. * On a similar note, it had not occurred to them how important the language used is. That saying 'them' and 'their' to describe fans, instead of talking about 'us' and how 'we' are going to get out of this together, might be considered less than positive was a surprise. * The desire to communicate more with fans and in a better and open way is an honest one and they are looking at how this can be done going forward. They seem very keen on the openness bit and want more filming of meetings. One suggestion is live streaming and taking questions online if it can be done. There is an awareness that there is a long way to go but want to do better. * They are monitoring social media but are aware that they are not using it properly to talk to fans and get out the key messages. This is being looked at. * They are pleased with the Vaz Te signing and know that the playing squad is one of the major issues with fans. There is also a strong belief that if we start winning more than we lose, much of the dissatisfaction will melt away. * They see groups like CAST as important, but think that they are only one voice out of many. They are conscious that the trust do not represent all fans and are actually seen in a negative way by some fans. Want to get broadest range of views possible.
So this might be all spin, as I said, I think there is some truth in the way it was said to me. My view is that there are some interesting and positive things in all of this, but there is quite a lot of naivety in what is going on. Also, all of this is against a backdrop of what RD thinks and does, which is still not clear, so it might be that, whatever the good intentions, things won't happen. We will see.
In other news (not seen this elsewhere, but I might have missed it) look out for a new (interim) signing in a different sphere to the playing squad, coming our way this week. It is a sign that the club is taking some of what is being said seriously and trying to make things better.
Not all of us think it's the brightest move to get Roland out. Using his money more wisely than he is would be better.
Sadly, that reads like "He can stay and keep pumping his money only if I'm (we are) allowed to dictate what it's spent on"
I think you have to twist it to read it that way.
One question to illustrate it: if you had £9m to spend on incoming transfers, do you think it could be more wisely spent than on players like Polish Pete or Lepoint?
A few comments from some conversations I have had with people since the meeting on Tuesday. Whether this is spin or otherwise, not sure. However, the people i have spoken to have been honest and fair with me in other circumstances, so I tend to believe, at least, the spirit in which it has been said.
* The club knew that they had to do something as it was clear the protests would grow, thus the meeting. * Effort was put into the presentation because they were keen to get over positive messages about long time plans but didn't really think about the questions they might be asked. The plan with answering questions was to try to be honest and didn't have any answers prepared. * Thought the opening outline of the issues from fans was clear and raised some genuine concerns. They were worried that they would be hammered in questioning, but thought this didn't happen. Felt that they were let off the hook with some of the questions asked and too many people making long statements rather than putting questions. * Felt that a number of the questions were about important issues, but ones that should be dealt with in other forums, especially ones about specific operational problems. Felt this took up too much of the meeting and therefore didn't get to the key issues. * It hadn't occurred to them that the way the meeting was arranged and managed might have a negative effect on how people perceive them. Was a surprise that a meeting billed as a round table between KM and RM and a smallish group of fans, but was actually a panel, with a top table to a bigger audience (including club employees) might be considered in a less than positive way. There had been some talk about having a bigger panel with other people in key roles, but decided not to do this. * On a similar note, it had not occurred to them how important the language used is. That saying 'them' and 'their' to describe fans, instead of talking about 'us' and how 'we' are going to get out of this together, might be considered less than positive was a surprise. * The desire to communicate more with fans and in a better and open way is an honest one and they are looking at how this can be done going forward. They seem very keen on the openness bit and want more filming of meetings. One suggestion is live streaming and taking questions online if it can be done. There is an awareness that there is a long way to go but want to do better. * They are monitoring social media but are aware that they are not using it properly to talk to fans and get out the key messages. This is being looked at. * They are pleased with the Vaz Te signing and know that the playing squad is one of the major issues with fans. There is also a strong belief that if we start winning more than we lose, much of the dissatisfaction will melt away. * They see groups like CAST as important, but think that they are only one voice out of many. They are conscious that the trust do not represent all fans and are actually seen in a negative way by some fans. Want to get broadest range of views possible.
So this might be all spin, as I said, I think there is some truth in the way it was said to me. My view is that there are some interesting and positive things in all of this, but there is quite a lot of naivety in what is going on. Also, all of this is against a backdrop of what RD thinks and does, which is still not clear, so it might be that, whatever the good intentions, things won't happen. We will see.
In other news (not seen this elsewhere, but I might have missed it) look out for a new (interim) signing in a different sphere to the playing squad, coming our way this week. It is a sign that the club is taking some of what is being said seriously and trying to make things better.
Good news at the end but I find this a frustrating post. They should not have been at all surprised because many of these points were directly discussed with KM the day before, including how the panel would be badly received, how we would be focused if we were allowed to manage our side of the meeting, and how inviting so many fans would make the meeting less representative, not more.
I don't have any issue with accepting there is good will but the naivety is breathtaking - and when people are trying to help you, bloody well listen.
The club needs to recognise that it is unrealistic and divisive to try to hear every single view from every single fan. Ultimately that is a plan to do nothing, because you can always find someone who agrees with you even if the groundswell is the opposite. This was the case in point with the club shop employee's contribution.
CASTrust is not the answer to every question but what we did do successfully I believe is bring all the fans reps together to present a consensus of the views from supporters represented, and it was a collaborative effort not seen so much these days. This, I believe, is a lesson for club and fans alike.
Not directly related to most recent posts but. Last year KM did ask on the FF for volunteers to help the club with a target 20 type group, I was the only group (CAS Trust - its not called CAST BTW) to volunteer its services.
The initiative being under the remit of club development, under Lisa Squires i know rik of old began trying to meet with her. Its something we had been pushing for since the first time we full began to fully engage with the club under Bradshaw.
Altho that man had his detractors he did see the value of a joint statement and collaborative approach. We began in ernest with Fill the Valley a leaflet campaign promoting football for a fiver, and also dubbed Knock up your neighbours, we later looked at the possibility of marketing a whole block. It wasnt quite the finished article but it was the beginnings of something.
We wanted to formalise the group with a small working group and larger focus group. things got derailed as the club began to focus on being sold and then taken over, then kensells season ticket debacle pretty much ignored the suggestions he received, and that was that.
Comments
#nomeirelies would have been catchier on his hashtag.
If KM was to be sacked tomorrow, it would be your fault, my fault, the fans didn't like her, she was just turning it around and needed more time. I've said my opinion before. But if you want to run it like a business then its got to be correct right the way through the business. If it was a restaurant, you could put the best grub in the world on the tables but if the concierge is an ar53hole you aint going in....
The Fanbase who want more than 14 chips.
The Fanbase who are unhappy with the management.
The Fanbase who are Gay.
The Fanbase who thought the Sofa was crass.
The Fanbase who thought the pie cam was gross.
The Fanbase who thought that "sex on the pitch" was a cocktail.
The Fanbase who don't know who Katrien Miere is.
The Fanbase who are under 30.
The Fanbase who have irritable vowel syndrome
- I think that will be more way more than 2%.
* The club knew that they had to do something as it was clear the protests would grow, thus the meeting.
* Effort was put into the presentation because they were keen to get over positive messages about long time plans but didn't really think about the questions they might be asked. The plan with answering questions was to try to be honest and didn't have any answers prepared.
* Thought the opening outline of the issues from fans was clear and raised some genuine concerns. They were worried that they would be hammered in questioning, but thought this didn't happen. Felt that they were let off the hook with some of the questions asked and too many people making long statements rather than putting questions.
* Felt that a number of the questions were about important issues, but ones that should be dealt with in other forums, especially ones about specific operational problems. Felt this took up too much of the meeting and therefore didn't get to the key issues.
* It hadn't occurred to them that the way the meeting was arranged and managed might have a negative effect on how people perceive them. Was a surprise that a meeting billed as a round table between KM and RM and a smallish group of fans, but was actually a panel, with a top table to a bigger audience (including club employees) might be considered in a less than positive way. There had been some talk about having a bigger panel with other people in key roles, but decided not to do this.
* On a similar note, it had not occurred to them how important the language used is. That saying 'them' and 'their' to describe fans, instead of talking about 'us' and how 'we' are going to get out of this together, might be considered less than positive was a surprise.
* The desire to communicate more with fans and in a better and open way is an honest one and they are looking at how this can be done going forward. They seem very keen on the openness bit and want more filming of meetings. One suggestion is live streaming and taking questions online if it can be done. There is an awareness that there is a long way to go but want to do better.
* They are monitoring social media but are aware that they are not using it properly to talk to fans and get out the key messages. This is being looked at.
* They are pleased with the Vaz Te signing and know that the playing squad is one of the major issues with fans. There is also a strong belief that if we start winning more than we lose, much of the dissatisfaction will melt away.
* They see groups like CAST as important, but think that they are only one voice out of many. They are conscious that the trust do not represent all fans and are actually seen in a negative way by some fans. Want to get broadest range of views possible.
So this might be all spin, as I said, I think there is some truth in the way it was said to me. My view is that there are some interesting and positive things in all of this, but there is quite a lot of naivety in what is going on. Also, all of this is against a backdrop of what RD thinks and does, which is still not clear, so it might be that, whatever the good intentions, things won't happen. We will see.
In other news (not seen this elsewhere, but I might have missed it) look out for a new (interim) signing in a different sphere to the playing squad, coming our way this week. It is a sign that the club is taking some of what is being said seriously and trying to make things better.
Actions will speak louder than words though....
Reads to me like: "What a shame that we have an owner who is prepared to invest in our club but does it so wastefully and inadvisedly"
One question to illustrate it: if you had £9m to spend on incoming transfers, do you think it could be more wisely spent than on players like Polish Pete or Lepoint?
I don't have any issue with accepting there is good will but the naivety is breathtaking - and when people are trying to help you, bloody well listen.
The club needs to recognise that it is unrealistic and divisive to try to hear every single view from every single fan. Ultimately that is a plan to do nothing, because you can always find someone who agrees with you even if the groundswell is the opposite. This was the case in point with the club shop employee's contribution.
CASTrust is not the answer to every question but what we did do successfully I believe is bring all the fans reps together to present a consensus of the views from supporters represented, and it was a collaborative effort not seen so much these days. This, I believe, is a lesson for club and fans alike.
The initiative being under the remit of club development, under Lisa Squires i know rik of old began trying to meet with her. Its something we had been pushing for since the first time we full began to fully engage with the club under Bradshaw.
Altho that man had his detractors he did see the value of a joint statement and collaborative approach. We began in ernest with Fill the Valley a leaflet campaign promoting football for a fiver, and also dubbed Knock up your neighbours, we later looked at the possibility of marketing a whole block. It wasnt quite the finished article but it was the beginnings of something.
We wanted to formalise the group with a small working group and larger focus group. things got derailed as the club began to focus on being sold and then taken over, then kensells season ticket debacle pretty much ignored the suggestions he received, and that was that.