Be interesting to see if there is a change in Karlan now, especially after the comments on here that say he didnt get along with Watt when they played together
I find the comments about Watt being 'awful' as of late a bit harsh.
Even he himself has admitted that he hasn't been playing well and that he needs to deliver more. Does someone with a true attitude problem show the sort of maturity to admit that publicly? Not really.
And even when he has been playing poorly, there have been numerous others who have been much much worse.
If you want to send players out on loan to free up budget or to simply bin them off for a bit then why not look at Ba, Bergdich, Pope, KAG - all of which have been dreadful for the most part.
Not forgetting fan favourite Cousins, who couldn't trap a bag of cement or pass a parcel of late.
I find the comments about Watt being 'awful' as of late a bit harsh.
Even he himself has admitted that he hasn't been playing well and that he needs to deliver more. Does someone with a true attitude problem show the sort of maturity to admit that publicly? Not really.
And even when he has been playing poorly, there have been numerous others who have been much much worse.
If you want to send players out on loan to free up budget or to simply bin them off for a bit then why not look at Ba, Bergdich, Pope, KAG - all of which have been dreadful for the most part.
Not forgetting fan favourite Cousins, who couldn't trap a bag of cement or pass a parcel of late.
I'm a fan of Cousins but these last two matches I've said that if he isnt performing he should be dropped for Ba...
Thing is, its a lot easier for a Goalkeeper (Nick Pope) to be picked out because its easier, a Goalkeepers job is to keep the ball out of the net, so the moment the opposition score its more often their fault when in fact if you look into it deeper, had a Defender closed down the ball, or not ducked out the way, the ball would never have gone in.
Same with a Striker (Tony Watt), their job quite simply is to score... When they dont, the stat is glaringly visible for all to see, yet the reason they're not scoring could be a range of factors, i.e. they're getting into good positions yet the ball isnt reaching them, or when it does reach them, the cross has been hit with too much power from the Midfielder (or too high) so it cant be reached, or if the Striker can head it, its always going to be off target.
This is the side of Football that I hate where too much of the game (I'm at fault as much as anyone else) where its just descended into a world of stats which is the easy way out of investigating an issue when in fact pundits and fans should look much deeper into the root of the cause.
I love the any excuse needed to beat the board with a stick, when someone who has stood up for what he believes in with the board and still puts out what seems th correct alternate view and people still can't read it
Because mate this is a prime example of why the football strategy our club is adopting is so fundamentally flawed. We only signed Watt because he was surplus to requirements (for whatever reason) at another of our owners clubs. Exactly the same as Tucudean. Short-term management set-up means we are not in the position to build anything other than short-term squad building, no forms of long-term tracking, character, suitability etc seems to be going into consideration of signings.
It may well be he is a bad egg, and needs to be outed (though if a knowledgeable, traditional and connected manager like Slade thinks there is something to work with, that's telling). Wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get on with Jackson (I suspect he is having a huge influence of what's going on last few weeks), but if he is so bad then we shouldn't have touched him in the first place given we were the best positioned club in the whole world to know if he was a potential problem, or he just needs to be managed better, by an experienced manager.
Watt may well be a problem, but getting to this point is the real problem.
Spot on and there's the rub
For a "strategy" based on effective recruitment we are terrible at recruitment.
Of all the network buys only Reza is still at Sparrows Lane and he's hardly been a success or repaid the fee.
A few are out on loan and almost forgotten (Polish Pete, Romanian George, Serbian Dimi).
All the others have gone.
JBG has increased in value but he was a free transfer.
Igor might be worth something if he ever gets fit but that has been so badly managed, playing him when he clearly wasn't fit because we wouldn't stump up for a replacement.
A few more buys where the jury is out or they haven't had enough time (Ba, Bergditch, Ceballos, Sarr) and a couple who look decent (Kashi and Bauer).
We don't have to be as good as other clubs at recruitment we have to be much, much better but we're not. We rely far too much on data analysis from unknown Belgium based "experts" (unknown other than Fraeye, of course) and IT'S NOT WORKING.
I love the any excuse needed to beat the board with a stick, when someone who has stood up for what he believes in with the board and still puts out what seems th correct alternate view and people still can't read it
Because mate this is a prime example of why the football strategy our club is adopting is so fundamentally flawed. We only signed Watt because he was surplus to requirements (for whatever reason) at another of our owners clubs. Exactly the same as Tucudean. Short-term management set-up means we are not in the position to build anything other than short-term squad building, no forms of long-term tracking, character, suitability etc seems to be going into consideration of signings.
It may well be he is a bad egg, and needs to be outed (though if a knowledgeable, traditional and connected manager like Slade thinks there is something to work with, that's telling). Wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get on with Jackson (I suspect he is having a huge influence of what's going on last few weeks), but if he is so bad then we shouldn't have touched him in the first place given we were the best positioned club in the whole world to know if he was a potential problem, or he just needs to be managed better, by an experienced manager.
Watt may well be a problem, but getting to this point is the real problem.
Spot on and there's the rub
For a "strategy" based on effective recruitment we are terrible at recruitment.
Of all the network buys only Reza is still at Sparrows Lane and he's hardly been a success or repaid the fee.
A few are out on loan and almost forgotten (Polish Pete, Romanian George, Serbian Dimi).
All the others have gone.
JBG has increased in value but he was a free transfer.
Igor might be worth something if he ever gets fit but that has been so badly managed, playing him when he clearly wasn't fit because we wouldn't stump up for a replacement.
A few more buys where the jury is out or they haven't had enough time (Ba, Bergditch, Ceballos, Sarr) and a couple who look decent (Kashi and Bauer).
We don't have to be as good as other clubs at recruitment we have to be much, much better but we're not. We rely far too much on data analysis from unknown Belgium based "experts" (unknown other than Fraeye, of course) and IT'S NOT WORKING.
A number of clubs seems have to gone down the road of expert committee based transfer purchases with mixed results.
Spurs wasted much of the Bale money, similarly Liverpool with the Suarez money. Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland are pretty poor adverts as well
Recently Spurs seem to have a better track record (Alli, Dier, Son) to be fair
A fantastic talent no doubt, some of his performances have been on another planet, but discipline is clearly his problem. Still a kid in terms of the game and his lack of discipline saw him ousted from the team he has always supported since a boy and never settled since the move from Glasgow.
If he is a bad influence on the youngsters, as others suggested, he needs to go. I loved watching Watt but his effort and fitness is a shadow of last seasons and not been missed in the laat few games.
Yes he could be a match winner, but he is playing with a superb match winner in JJ and is a shame he can't learn some of that.
A player can be 10/10 in terms of technique but without the right mind and attitude, it will be always be a waste.
Curbs used to spend ages phoning round ex managers and ex team mates of potential signees, finding out what their attitude was like. That's something data analysis will never show.
No one in the history of football ever made brilliant signings all the time, watt served his purpose scored vital goals gave moments of brilliance but when that becomes less of an impact than the other stuff he must be doing then you let them go quickly and easily,
Poor scouting maybe, calculated risk at the time more likely, no one was moaning about the signing policy whilst he was dancing through defences.
We got what we needed from the deal and we moved on when it didn't work
No one in the history of football ever made brilliant signings all the time, watt served his purpose scored vital goals gave moments of brilliance but when that becomes less of an impact than the other stuff he must be doing then you let them go quickly and easily,
Poor scouting maybe, calculated risk at the time more likely, no one was moaning about the signing policy whilst he was dancing through defences.
We got what we needed from the deal and we moved on when it didn't work
Wrong, I was "moaning" about the recruitment policy before he signed, when he signed and after he signed.
The CEO told the VIPs that Watt was the replacement for Yann when clearly he wasn't. Polish Pete and then Tucadean were.
We only got Watt because he was no longer wanted at Standard. Player recruitment has been a mess from the start and continues to be so even if they are making fewer huge errors.
One question I would ask, is if Tony is such a known wrong un in the dressing room wherever he goes, why was the mistake of his signing passed on to us by our former Belgian network sibling and why was our "CEO" using his signing as a reason the current regime were bringing success to our first team as recently as 9 months ago?
I know modern football has a tendency to be short term but we must be taking it to a new level with how quickly new "heroes" arrive only to be discarded by the board and in the mind of fans but hey we have won a couple of games in a row, so lets give everybody another chance............
Not when neither side gets told it isn't! (Undisclosed.)
When someone like Mick Everett makes a loaded comment it's interesting.
Especially when Finchy is sending the same message.
None of which, though, makes @Henry Irving's points about the overall recruitment policy which brought Tony Watt here, any less pertinent. I seem to recall KM making a remark pointing to TW as an example of how the network approach could help us. And had TW continued where he left off, she might have had a point. Unfortunately he hasn't, and the network recruitment policy has nothing left to show for itself apart from Reza.
We've got as bad a song list as any club in the football league possess and with ole ole ole ole Tony Watt Watt Watt gone it just gets worse this ownership doesn't want any personality
We have always made mistakes signing players since pardew we have signed shit players, dowie signed shit parkinson signed shit, Powell signed shit, they all do it this lot are no different
It's just highlighted more now because people are at the end of their resolve, we have been in decline for yrs, culminating in us being in the third division, we are back in the second division and people are getting more pissed off,
On the km and Rd out threads people don't k ow if they want to put the club in more debt to sign players or suffer with the way it's run,
Watt isn't the example of shit recruitment that's the Pawell abbots, traore, nego, the lad from Everton etc
You could list from each season failures, watt was a useful player who scored important goals but now is more problematic than those goals
This board ain't perfect they have many issues that's clear but we shouldn't cloud the water with watt being an example of mismanagement, it's just the sort of signing we should all want to see, young skillfull edgy but not the finished article and worth a chance
There is indeed, but then if the board want to play the innocent card why did they recruit someone with one of the biggest attitude problems in football? What did they expect? Non entity coaches to coach him into a perfect mindset? No chance.
Rather than our Ferguson, Luzon was more our Manchini and Watt our Balotelli.
Personally think the club could be working harder with Tony, but I don't know really know how hard Tony has been working with the club... he certainly hasn't seemed to want get himself fully fit.
Will be interesting to see how he gets on at Cardiff. Needs to make it there or he'll be packed off back to Scotland, and not to one of the Old Firm.
It's very disappointing that a player like Tony Watt hasn't worked out for us but get over that disappointment and start looking at why. It's not always the clubs fault that players don't fit. Any club, any player. Read between the lines from those that post that have an inside track and you might find the reason why TW was shipped out AGAIN.
Curbs used to spend ages phoning round ex managers and ex team mates of potential signees, finding out what their attitude was like. That's something data analysis will never show.
There's probably a drop down box on the data analysis package with options like "good egg" "cocaine addict" "wrong 'un" "bit of c***" etc....
Comments
Thing is, its a lot easier for a Goalkeeper (Nick Pope) to be picked out because its easier, a Goalkeepers job is to keep the ball out of the net, so the moment the opposition score its more often their fault when in fact if you look into it deeper, had a Defender closed down the ball, or not ducked out the way, the ball would never have gone in.
Same with a Striker (Tony Watt), their job quite simply is to score... When they dont, the stat is glaringly visible for all to see, yet the reason they're not scoring could be a range of factors, i.e. they're getting into good positions yet the ball isnt reaching them, or when it does reach them, the cross has been hit with too much power from the Midfielder (or too high) so it cant be reached, or if the Striker can head it, its always going to be off target.
This is the side of Football that I hate where too much of the game (I'm at fault as much as anyone else) where its just descended into a world of stats which is the easy way out of investigating an issue when in fact pundits and fans should look much deeper into the root of the cause.
For a "strategy" based on effective recruitment we are terrible at recruitment.
Of all the network buys only Reza is still at Sparrows Lane and he's hardly been a success or repaid the fee.
A few are out on loan and almost forgotten (Polish Pete, Romanian George, Serbian Dimi).
All the others have gone.
JBG has increased in value but he was a free transfer.
Igor might be worth something if he ever gets fit but that has been so badly managed, playing him when he clearly wasn't fit because we wouldn't stump up for a replacement.
A few more buys where the jury is out or they haven't had enough time (Ba, Bergditch, Ceballos, Sarr) and a couple who look decent (Kashi and Bauer).
We don't have to be as good as other clubs at recruitment we have to be much, much better but we're not. We rely far too much on data analysis from unknown Belgium based "experts" (unknown other than Fraeye, of course) and IT'S NOT WORKING.
Spurs wasted much of the Bale money, similarly Liverpool with the Suarez money. Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland are pretty poor adverts as well
Recently Spurs seem to have a better track record (Alli, Dier, Son) to be fair
If he is a bad influence on the youngsters, as others suggested, he needs to go. I loved watching Watt but his effort and fitness is a shadow of last seasons and not been missed in the laat few games.
Yes he could be a match winner, but he is playing with a superb match winner in JJ and is a shame he can't learn some of that.
A player can be 10/10 in terms of technique but without the right mind and attitude, it will be always be a waste.
Poor scouting maybe, calculated risk at the time more likely, no one was moaning about the signing policy whilst he was dancing through defences.
We got what we needed from the deal and we moved on when it didn't work
But you can go over the name and the three with a red marker pen and get the club shop to add a percent symbol after the two.
The CEO told the VIPs that Watt was the replacement for Yann when clearly he wasn't. Polish Pete and then Tucadean were.
We only got Watt because he was no longer wanted at Standard. Player recruitment has been a mess from the start and continues to be so even if they are making fewer huge errors.
Not when neither side gets told it isn't! (Undisclosed.)
When someone like Mick Everett makes a loaded comment it's interesting.
I know modern football has a tendency to be short term but we must be taking it to a new level with how quickly new "heroes" arrive only to be discarded by the board and in the mind of fans but hey we have won a couple of games in a row, so lets give everybody another chance............
Especially when Finchy is sending the same message.
None of which, though, makes @Henry Irving's points about the overall recruitment policy which brought Tony Watt here, any less pertinent. I seem to recall KM making a remark pointing to TW as an example of how the network approach could help us. And had TW continued where he left off, she might have had a point. Unfortunately he hasn't, and the network recruitment policy has nothing left to show for itself apart from Reza.
this ownership doesn't want any personality
It's just highlighted more now because people are at the end of their resolve, we have been in decline for yrs, culminating in us being in the third division, we are back in the second division and people are getting more pissed off,
On the km and Rd out threads people don't k ow if they want to put the club in more debt to sign players or suffer with the way it's run,
Watt isn't the example of shit recruitment that's the Pawell abbots, traore, nego, the lad from Everton etc
You could list from each season failures, watt was a useful player who scored important goals but now is more problematic than those goals
This board ain't perfect they have many issues that's clear but we shouldn't cloud the water with watt being an example of mismanagement, it's just the sort of signing we should all want to see, young skillfull edgy but not the finished article and worth a chance
Personally think the club could be working harder with Tony, but I don't know really know how hard Tony has been working with the club... he certainly hasn't seemed to want get himself fully fit.
Will be interesting to see how he gets on at Cardiff. Needs to make it there or he'll be packed off back to Scotland, and not to one of the Old Firm.