Whether or not he is responsible in any way, shape or form for the recruitment of the players doesn't really factor into the situation as it stands. He's managed to take a bunch of confused and demoralised looking players... and somehow contrive to make them play even worse. That's why he's got to go, no matter what responsibility he has in them being here the players aren't playing well enough with this berk in charge.
Whether he's lying or telling the truth, all trust has gone. Once trust has gone, the marriage is over. Nothing any of them say or do from now on will be believed, they have been caught out too many times telling lies.
This sums it up perfectly. Karel has 0 trust from us, not entirely his thought but he took the job knowing how disgruntled the fans are.
Trainer - Scouting - Management KAA Gent January 2004 – March 2011 (7 years 3 months) Trainer U15/U16/2nd team Scouting - recruting Management Academy
Taken directly from his linkedin, a scout/in recruitment for a part of 7 years+. the man who was seen at The Valley within weeks of RD taking us over, the man who is saying everything RD would want him to say is denying bad doings? Shock.
Of course he played a part in it. Claiming the good and dismissing the bad.. it's what they do.
I'm quite certain he played a part in suggesting players if not properly recruiting them for CAFC.
I know it's not what people want to hear, but it is true that he has no input into our player recruitment previously. The suggestion that he was, was only a rumour that became an assumed fact over time.
That is interesting as someone told me face to face that he had actually scouted two of the current squad.
I know it's not what people want to hear, but it is true that he has no input into our player recruitment previously. The suggestion that he was, was only a rumour that became an assumed fact over time.
Olly I trust you, you're a top bloke.
However, please can you explain how you know that Fraeye had no input into our player recruitment previously ?
Your statement is based on what knowledge or who told you ?
The bottom line is that it's nobody's fault we've signed a load of duds. All these good yet anonymous scouting networks Carol refers to yet a load of duds keep getting shipped in . Very mysterious. Aliens, possibly?
To people saying it's not unreasonable to ask Fraeye's advice on Igor, it definitely is. Fraeye worked with him when he was a 16 year old. Fraeye is also an inexperienced chump. It's the equivalent of asking the CEO of a company's old school teacher whether or not you should invest in their company years later. What will Karel have been able to say? 'Well, he's about a foot taller than he was then and he's probably fundamentally altered his skillset since he was a child but yeah, I can give you a solid opinion on him.' I don't want Karel giving opinions on whether or not we should sign players because he's proven he hasn't got a clue about tactics or team structure or footballers in general.
"But Fraeye says that talk he was the one identifying players for the Addicks is totally wrong."
If he is not lying. I can only assume, he was watching the games, with a view to letting RD/KM know his opinions on the footballing side as RD did not trust Powell. Perhaps he recommended areas for strenghtening, but not specific players. The specific players just being sent over by the "invisible scouts".
Perhaps, he also recommended, who had a value and could be sold ? Maybe why Kermorgant was sold so quickly to pay for the pitch ?
This to me is plausible. But if this is the truth, then why not say so ?
The main reason to not explain, is because you are hiding something.
The trouble is once someone lies, they then have to lie, to cover up the lies and we end up we are.
Maybe KF is not lying, but he and Murray et al, have to be economical with the truth, as KM has lied so much, it's impossible for them to say anything with confidence of not contradicting, what has been previously said.
so he did all the recruitment for just one of the network clubs but not a single hand in any of ours? Yeah. Sure. Which begs another question, if it isn't fraeye, who the hell is? How are they qualified to do it?
Rumours would never have surfaced and the matter could be cleared up straight away if someone came out and explained exactly what the player recruitment policy was, who determined strategy and how the ultimate decision was made.
Why should it be a mystery, unless there is no sensible explanation. Is it because there was no clear recruitment policy so no coherent strategy and everyone involved was running around like headless chickens trying to interpret the noises from the owner to keep their job safe.
So come on, let's just think of the players that came in in the first window. Who made recommendations on what the club needed?
It certainly wasn't Chris Powell, as he stated in the Trust interview. Phil Chapple would already have had a list.
My understanding was that it was Karel Fraeye watching the team until Powell was sacked and he became Riga's assistant. If not him, who else could it possibly have been?
As an untrusting sort of individual, I wonder whether the quote: “From the day I left here, which was in May 2014" does not state categorically that he was not involved with the recruitment of any of the following:
Astrit Ajdarevic Yohann Thuram-Ulien Anil Koc Piotr Parsyszek Loic Nego Reza Goochannejhad
Nor, if we are to assume that planning for the new season was underway before the end of the 2013-2014 season (which, as it's a reasonable thing that clubs do, is unlikely under the Duchatelet model), does it mean that there was no involvement in players brought in during the summer.
If it were me, and I had nothing to do with the selection of players, other than since arriving in late 2015, I would state that categorically.
Whilst in many regards I am a paranoid conspiracy theorist, I cannot wonder if the words being used in all media interactions this week have not been fully vetted and agreed with senior "management".
Roland told SCP to drop Solly and Hamer because he had a RB (Nego) and a goalie (Coco) who were better. Roland doesn't watch football so it wasn't his opinion. Carol just happened to be watching Charlton at the time. Co-incidence? I think not!
Just for the record and according to Soccerway, between May 14 and October 15 (call it 18 months), Alcorcon recruited about 50 players and released or transferred out about 47.
Some points to make:
The great majority were Spanish (roughly 80%). No fee is known of in any case; zero euros in, zero euros out. Many of the players would appear in both totals. It probably includes second team players. Fraeye was also head coach at Hamme throughout that time.
So that poster that got loads of stick for telling people KF had nothing to do with player recruitment at Charlton was right?
Depends on whether you take this statement as gospel mate. Which I dont.
It's clear KF was heavily involved from the start with RD and Charlton. Hence why he was Rigas assistant. Hence why he's 'trusted' by RD. Hence why he's not been replaced despite a shocking run of results.
It's tough to see through the murky waters but at this stage I struggle to believe KF is squeaky clean.
Whether he's lying or telling the truth, all trust has gone. Once trust has gone, the marriage is over. Nothing any of them say or do from now on will be believed, they have been caught out too many times telling lies.
And this is true of Katrien Meire and, very sadly, Richard Murray. The problem is that if they're not bluntly and demonstrably honest, if there's even a hint of spin, the entire message will be rejected. It's of their own making, they've had plenty of opportunity in the last two years to stand in front of the fans and bring them into the picture.
As for Fraeye, my impression is that he will say anything that walks the company line. He's probably better off saying nothing beyond team matters.
I'd be surprised if KF doesn't get replaced before the end of the month. And you'll get some players that'll help you not getting relegated. However, as Bob Peeters explained, KM is the rotten apple and I'm not too sure she's getting replaced.
Most responses here are the end product of the Murray/Meire approach. We have been lied to repeatedly and so even when someone says something which might be true (and despite other failings I suspect Fraeye is a decent man) nobody believes them. All that comes down to the communication failings which Murray repeatedly tells us the club are aware of and which repeatedly remain exactly the same.
"For this moment, we know best what is needed for this team"
So you and your mates keep telling us, it just that it doesn't look like it.
“There is only one player that I had some support in [at Charlton] and that is Igor Vetokele. They asked my opinion as I was his manager when he was 16.”
Yeh thought that one might have been down to you. Bob had never heard of him.
“We don’t look to sell players. We’re not going to sell players. We are in a big battle. All the quality we have in the team we will keep at Charlton Athletic. That’s for sure.”
Lets hope this one doesn't come back and bite you. Got a feeling it might. She's behind you. Basically it's a lie
Fraeye has continually talked about his own role not being important even though supporters chanted “we want a manager” during the 1-1 draw with Forest and also
Good point Karel. What do you do? Jason takes training, Roland picks the team.......?
It's beyond a joke, please have some self respect and go mate.
What a mess. My conclusions from what I've read and the comments made hear just highlights what a very poor manager he is and his PR leaves a lot to be desired. How on earth can he manage a team in Belgium and find players for Alcorcon. Best thing he should do is don't complicate the past and concentrate on the future, as in resign.
The 3 key words. Between 'The Statement' yesterday and this, they really are making a mess of this. And what of our CEO? By my understanding the CEO is the senior most executive that can be held to account for the day to day operations of the club/business. Yet I don't think we've heard anything from her since the fans meeting back in November.
The bottom line is that it's nobody's fault we've signed a load of duds. All these good yet anonymous scouting networks Carol refers to yet a load of duds keep getting shipped in . Very mysterious. Aliens, possibly?
When asked how the targeting of players is done now since Chapple departed, Fraeye said: “At this moment we have a good staff. We have a good network. The board has got a good network. Mark Stow has got a good network. All this together gives us a big number of players for the positions we want.Not only does it not answer the question it sounds like no one is responsible to anyone and the whole thing is done by a committee that has no members.
But our January activity thus far has been to sign two players that previously played for us.
When asked how the targeting of players is done now since Chapple departed, Fraeye said: “At this moment we have a good staff. We have a good network. The board has got a good network. Mark Stow has got a good network. All this together gives us a big number of players for the positions we want.Not only does it not answer the question it sounds like no one is responsible to anyone and the whole thing is done by a committee that has no members.
But our January activity thus far has been to sign two players that previously played for us.
When asked how the targeting of players is done now since Chapple departed, Fraeye said: “At this moment we have a good staff. We have a good network. The board has got a good network. Mark Stow has got a good network. All this together gives us a big number of players for the positions we want.Not only does it not answer the question it sounds like no one is responsible to anyone and the whole thing is done by a committee that has no members.
But our January activity thus far has been to sign two players that previously played for us.
Three. Other loan never played for us before.
A yes - I think I was out of the country when we signed him so keep on forgetting !
If Fraeye didn't scout the players then who did ? This is the problem with all the statements / Q&As from the club, they selectively a narrow part of the question but fail to answer the main parts. There is zero transparency and accountability at the club.
Henry Irving Member December 2015 KF was responsible for the player recruitment
So Mr Hayes you are not infallible after all! Remember I told you the difference between opinion and fact...... maybe you will not be so quick to jump to erroneous conclusions that abound on this forum but please, keep to the other good work you do for Charlton. There are enough lies flying around the club at the moment so we must try not to add to them eh?
Comments
KAA Gent
January 2004 – March 2011 (7 years 3 months)
Trainer U15/U16/2nd team
Scouting - recruting
Management Academy
Taken directly from his linkedin, a scout/in recruitment for a part of 7 years+. the man who was seen at The Valley within weeks of RD taking us over, the man who is saying everything RD would want him to say is denying bad doings? Shock.
Of course he played a part in it. Claiming the good and dismissing the bad.. it's what they do.
I'm quite certain he played a part in suggesting players if not properly recruiting them for CAFC.
However, please can you explain how you know that Fraeye had no input into our player recruitment previously ?
Your statement is based on what knowledge or who told you ?
If you know it wasn't Fraeye, then who was it ?
Thanking-you kindly.
If he is not lying. I can only assume, he was watching the games, with a view to letting RD/KM know his opinions on the footballing side as RD did not trust Powell. Perhaps he recommended areas for strenghtening, but not specific players. The specific players just being sent over by the "invisible scouts".
Perhaps, he also recommended, who had a value and could be sold ? Maybe why Kermorgant was sold so quickly to pay for the pitch ?
This to me is plausible. But if this is the truth, then why not say so ?
The main reason to not explain, is because you are hiding something.
The trouble is once someone lies, they then have to lie, to cover up the lies and we end up we are.
Maybe KF is not lying, but he and Murray et al, have to be economical with the truth, as KM has lied so much, it's impossible for them to say anything with confidence of not contradicting, what has been previously said.
Why should it be a mystery, unless there is no sensible explanation. Is it because there was no clear recruitment policy so no coherent strategy and everyone involved was running around like headless chickens trying to interpret the noises from the owner to keep their job safe.
Astrit Ajdarevic
Yohann Thuram-Ulien
Anil Koc
Piotr Parsyszek
Loic Nego
Reza Goochannejhad
Nor, if we are to assume that planning for the new season was underway before the end of the 2013-2014 season (which, as it's a reasonable thing that clubs do, is unlikely under the Duchatelet model), does it mean that there was no involvement in players brought in during the summer.
If it were me, and I had nothing to do with the selection of players, other than since arriving in late 2015, I would state that categorically.
Whilst in many regards I am a paranoid conspiracy theorist, I cannot wonder if the words being used in all media interactions this week have not been fully vetted and agreed with senior "management".
He's still clueless....
Some points to make:
The great majority were Spanish (roughly 80%).
No fee is known of in any case; zero euros in, zero euros out.
Many of the players would appear in both totals.
It probably includes second team players.
Fraeye was also head coach at Hamme throughout that time.
It's clear KF was heavily involved from the start with RD and Charlton. Hence why he was Rigas assistant. Hence why he's 'trusted' by RD. Hence why he's not been replaced despite a shocking run of results.
It's tough to see through the murky waters but at this stage I struggle to believe KF is squeaky clean.
As for Fraeye, my impression is that he will say anything that walks the company line. He's probably better off saying nothing beyond team matters.
So you and your mates keep telling us, it just that it doesn't look like it.
“There is only one player that I had some support in [at Charlton] and that is Igor Vetokele. They asked my opinion as I was his manager when he was 16.”
Yeh thought that one might have been down to you. Bob had never heard of him.
“We don’t look to sell players. We’re not going to sell players. We are in a big battle. All the quality we have in the team we will keep at Charlton Athletic. That’s for sure.”
Lets hope this one doesn't come back and bite you. Got a feeling it might. She's behind you. Basically it's a lie
Fraeye has continually talked about his own role not being important even though supporters chanted “we want a manager” during the 1-1 draw with Forest and also
Good point Karel. What do you do? Jason takes training, Roland picks the team.......?
It's beyond a joke, please have some self respect and go mate.
What is she doing, why is she so quiet?
Note the use of the word 'team' rather than 'squad' couple of quality squad members not the the most recent team.
December 2015
KF was responsible for the player recruitment
So Mr Hayes you are not infallible after all!
Remember I told you the difference between opinion and fact...... maybe you will not be so quick to jump to erroneous conclusions that abound on this forum but please, keep to the other good work you do for Charlton.
There are enough lies flying around the club at the moment so we must try not to add to them eh?