There is an implication that we, the fans, don't know the half of it.
I may be wrong but I think her whole argument is built on the point the club was in a bad financial situation before RD arrived, and to quote her 'You have to be careful what you wish for in life. The grass isn't always greener.'
Does that then suggest that the club is in a good financial position now ? It's the same argument that Merire trots out but I'm not sure it stands up to scrutiny - we are still tens of millions of pounds in debt and still losing millions every season.
To reiterate our financial position since RD came in
- Turnover is the same pretty much (so much for improving the match day experience)
- "Football costs" (player salaries etc) are almost 100% of revenue, almost double the recommended level (remember Katrien saying what a brilliant job she's done at signing up all our players to longish term contracts, this is the result of her handiwork)
- In Roland's first full season we lost £3.8m, God knows what it will be this season
Roland is wealthy, but that doesn't mean we are financially secure.
Exactly. Yes he's paying the immediate bills but isn't it all leveraged in the form of debt due to staprix? At 3% too I'm sure I read which is a nice return in this economy.
People can allow themselves to be fooled including Murray that he's our financial saviour but ultimately it is the football equivalent of allowing Wonga to pay your monthly mortgage payments. Great until the debt gets called in and far more catastrophic than our financial positions previously in the long term perhaps.
Wasn't this part of the green and yellowbrigade's argument at Manchester United with the Glaziers? The potential jeopardy of such substantial debt leveraged against the club? At least they had sufficient global presence and associated revenue on s continue basis to mitigate exposure and also no shortage of likely takeovers if their owners get bored and decide to pull the plug.
"I firmly believe we will achieve success craved by all"
In the week after we lose to statistically the worst team in England (which I think is us now), are thrashed 5-0 by a relegation rival and follow that up with a 6-0 hammering.
We seem to have one lady who won't say a word to anyone and another who doesn't know when to stop digging! This is from today.
My response was as follows:
Wow. Right. Sue, you clearly fall into the "pro-regime" category - which is fine; we can disagree. I actually agree with you on one point - a pitch invasion wouldn't really make much sense. Where I take issue is this:
"When is the nonsense going to stop? You may not like all that is going on at the club but the continual stirring up hatred and vile vocal attacks will cause lasting damage and bring humiliation to the club far worse than any owner ever could. Many of you are like sheep now losing track of your original aim but still continuing to follow aimlessly those who perpetuate rumours intended to destabilise the club. If you really love the club as you say you do try backing the team and work towards cohesion not dissection and disruption."
- First, I find it ironic in how you address these rumours. As someone more intelligent than me put it:
"The allegation of unprofessional behaviour upon the release of certain emails when they quite clearly expose the undeniable unprofessional performance by the club is a delicious irony."
- "Nonsense?" Well, let's look at the myriad issues with the club. We're playing shit; the owner hasn't attended a game in TWO YEARS; our CEO is a barely-qualified lawyer with no experience prior to this of man management; we are never given reasonable updates on injuries; we sign players who patently aren't good enough and farm them out on loan while subsidising their wages; we have no idea what RD's intentions are; and of course all the rumours surrounding Chris Powell. (I speak of players turning up with suitcases; him being told what team to pick, etc etc.) There is no communication - not even on injuries. Only yourself and Chris were in the box for the last match, as the most senior officials. That's cowardice at the growing unrest.
- Vile attacks? Do elaborate. No violence has been involved. After the first volley of quasi-xenophobic attacks, that's also calmed. But the team is playing badly and the board is giving no indication of direction. We want answers. Is that too much to ask?
- Humiliation? 5-0 and 6-0 are humiliations. Protests about 2 wins in 24 are rightly justified.
- I love this fucking football club so much, which is why I'm so upset. I want the board out. We are BEYOND cohesion with them. Well past it. As Grapevine49 puts it:
"Even if you accept their intentions are honourable, in face of the stumblingly poor performance both on and off the pitch, in the absence of any meaningful dialogue, people will register their dissatisfaction in any way they think appropriate."
----------------------------
Grapevine49 - top man.
And in case it needed clarifying, I'm Rick Everitt's man through and through here. Don't worry, I for one believe the "rumours"...
Our protests will cause the club more humiliation than any owner could?
I think even if fifty of us invaded the pitch, dropped our kecks and shat in front of the directors box, what the present Owner has done to Charlton thus far would still be more humiliating for the club.
I genuinely can't think of anything more humiliating than what the 'work' of Duchatelet, Miere, Murray and their flotsam managershead coaches puppets have done to CAFC.
Well I have been called a few things in my time, and sometimes quite rightly, but I think that is the first time I have been called a mindless idiot :-) I seem to be some sort of Hate Filled Sheep from Maidstone.... Anyway, I don't know if anyone can answer this question, but if Roland does indeed go at some point, is it possible he could end up leasing the Valley and facilities back to us? Is there the possibility that he might still end up with his hands in the coffers if he goes? I find that almost the most depressing thought of all, that even after he goes he doesn't quite cut off his revenue stream. I think he did something along these lines with another club he trashed didn't he?
I have seen the light. AFKA, rikofold, Airman, everybody has been manipulating me and everything is wonderful.
I welcome a step back to League One because as Sue points out a step back is the new step forward. I might have to stop now as I feel an overwhelming compulsion to go to Harvey's to buy a new sofa.
I'm considered more disruptive to the players than Karel Fraeye - This is the worst Monday ever!
Enjoy your Monday you bunch of sheep!!
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I think Karel Fraeye is the case that proves the point of those protesting. After two years, to appoint an obscure interim manager from a failing third division club, speaks bucketloads about how little RD/KM know of the division or think of our club.
Our protests will cause the club more humiliation than any owner could?
I think even if fifty of us invaded the pitch, dropped our kecks and shat in front of the directors box, what the present Owner has done to Charlton thus far would still be more humiliating for the club.
I genuinely can't think of anything more humiliating than what the 'work' of Duchatelet, Miere, Murray and their flotsam managershead coaches puppets have done to CAFC.
The protest fund is prepared to consider funding 50 dodgy chicken vindaloos on Friday night
I'm considered more disruptive to the players than Karel Fraeye - This is the worst Monday ever!
Enjoy your Monday you bunch of sheep!!
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I think Karel Fraeye is the case that proves the point of those protesting. After two years, to appoint an obscure interim manager from a failing third division club, speaks bucketloads about how little RD/KM know of the division or think of our club.
By the time Fraeye was appointed they'd had enough time to realise what the division is all about. Either Roland has the blinkers on or someone on the UK side of the operation hasn't been clear on what is required to survive in the Championship.
The fact that Roland doesn't watch live games means he is ill equipped to gauge the feeling around the club, and see how tough things really are on the pitch.
I don't believe he watches all of the games as KM stated either, because if he did, he wouldn't keep funding the type of players we keep getting. Well I hope he wouldn't anyway because it's obvious to everyone they are not up to scratch.
Protest and survive. Protest seems absolutely right but what lingers in my mind is that I don't have a clue about the offering brokered by PV. That just tempers my protest instincts a tad.
I often take a step back and ask, is the course we are on right or wrong for the club. I think the answer is as simple as, is Roland Duchatelet right or wrong for the club? What has stepped up the protests has been the knowledge that there was a party interested in buying the club. Before then, there was always an argument that, however bad the current regime is perceived to be, without them there would be no club. What Varney’s leak did, was shot that argument out of the water and gave supporters a target. If through fan action, Duchatelet was persuaded to sell to a more fit owner, the protests would be the saviour of the club, as the vision we have been painted, and the total ineptitude in relation to how the club is run promises a bleak future.
When fans fought to get back to the Valley, they may have been considered as agitators at the time. I decided to support the team at Sellout and wasn’t part of the Valley Party. In all honesty, I thought it was a waste of time and the club needed my support. It probably did to a certain extent, but it needed the people who acted even more. I have learned from that experience and that is why I think we need to do this. It is heartbreaking to have to. It is depressing, what we have been told and how we as fans are treated. It isn’t just us saying it, it is a growing number of external observers, who have been made aware of the club’s plight. The last demonstration outside the ground was not full of militant fans, but included large numbers of fans who wouldn’t normally protest in this way. That the club has not done more to acknowledge this is shameful.
Fans are fans, whatever their views, but the fans who are protesting are doing so because they love the club and feel this is what they need to do to save it from death or a fate worse than death. That deserves respect whether you agree with it or not.
Mrs Parkes - It's us mindless idiots that are paying your husbands wages. Blimey, can see who wears the trousers in that household. Rein her in Chris ffs
Chris Parkes is a good un and a loyal servant. His wife isn't helping, but we need to focus on the right targets and that tis the owner and CEO, not the staff and their families. Even if one of them is doing so to us. We need to rise above it.
Sue Parkes is a fan with her own mind. Those quotes are taken out of their context which makes them look all the worse - having participated on some of those threads I can say she's open to be challenged and debate her point.
I don't agree with everything she says and argued against a couple of those quotes directly myself, but she's a fan like the rest of us. I do think there is a sense of a lack of questioning of what they're told with some of the club staff, and the idea we'd die if RD withdrew when there's clear evidence of interested parties is just not sustainable.
Still let's not turn everyone who doesn't agree with the protests into the enemy. Many are fans who have seen it all and are happy just to let the owners get on with it and play their part in the stands. I differ with that view, but it is their right.
As a Trust member, I hope that is a personal opinion and not a Trust position. The Trust should be pushing for Duchatelet to sell up. There's been too much water under the bridge. There's been too much appeasment of Duchatlet, Meire and Murray when they are clearly part of the problem.
Sue Parkes is a fan with her own mind. Those quotes are taken out of their context which makes them look all the worse - having participated on some of those threads I can say she's open to be challenged and debate her point.
I don't agree with everything she says and argued against a couple of those quotes directly myself, but she's a fan like the rest of us. I do think there is a sense of a lack of questioning of what they're told with some of the club staff, and the idea we'd die if RD withdrew when there's clear evidence of interested parties is just not sustainable.
Still let's not turn everyone who doesn't agree with the protests into the enemy. Many are fans who have seen it all and are happy just to let the owners get on with it and play their part in the stands. I differ with that view, but it is their right.
As a Trust member, I hope that is a personal opinion and not a Trust position. The Trust should be pushing for Duchatelet to sell up. There's been too much water under the bridge. There's been too much appeasment of Duchatlet, Meire and Murray when they are clearly part of the problem.
Oh ffs. Seriously! I might as well not post.
Is that your Trust, Valley Gold or personal opinion? ;-)
Actually I would have thought that the trust position would be even more entrenched in having meaningful dialogue - the club says it will have improved communication, the masses are very angry and upset at the continued behavior of the owners to the point of protesting, now more so then ever with the formation of CARD it's vital that the club are able to instigate some kind of dialogue with CAST.
If the club have said that communication has been an issue that will be resolved, the option of dialogue with CAST is there but continuously not taken, it makes the CARD cause look more and more justified.
Comments
People can allow themselves to be fooled including Murray that he's our financial saviour but ultimately it is the football equivalent of allowing Wonga to pay your monthly mortgage payments. Great until the debt gets called in and far more catastrophic than our financial positions previously in the long term perhaps.
Wasn't this part of the green and yellowbrigade's argument at Manchester United with the Glaziers? The potential jeopardy of such substantial debt leveraged against the club? At least they had sufficient global presence and associated revenue on s continue basis to mitigate exposure and also no shortage of likely takeovers if their owners get bored and decide to pull the plug.
We don't.
In the week after we lose to statistically the worst team in England (which I think is us now), are thrashed 5-0 by a relegation rival and follow that up with a 6-0 hammering.
I think we're taking about 8,000 steps backwards.
He's alive!!!
Wow. Right. Sue, you clearly fall into the "pro-regime" category - which is fine; we can disagree. I actually agree with you on one point - a pitch invasion wouldn't really make much sense. Where I take issue is this:
"When is the nonsense going to stop? You may not like all that is going on at the club but the continual stirring up hatred and vile vocal attacks will cause lasting damage and bring humiliation to the club far worse than any owner ever could. Many of you are like sheep now losing track of your original aim but still continuing to follow aimlessly those who perpetuate rumours intended to destabilise the club. If you really love the club as you say you do try backing the team and work towards cohesion not dissection and disruption."
- First, I find it ironic in how you address these rumours. As someone more intelligent than me put it:
"The allegation of unprofessional behaviour upon the release of certain emails when they quite clearly expose the undeniable unprofessional performance by the club is a delicious irony."
Full comment at: http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/comment/2374580/...
- "Nonsense?" Well, let's look at the myriad issues with the club. We're playing shit; the owner hasn't attended a game in TWO YEARS; our CEO is a barely-qualified lawyer with no experience prior to this of man management; we are never given reasonable updates on injuries; we sign players who patently aren't good enough and farm them out on loan while subsidising their wages; we have no idea what RD's intentions are; and of course all the rumours surrounding Chris Powell. (I speak of players turning up with suitcases; him being told what team to pick, etc etc.) There is no communication - not even on injuries. Only yourself and Chris were in the box for the last match, as the most senior officials. That's cowardice at the growing unrest.
- Vile attacks? Do elaborate. No violence has been involved. After the first volley of quasi-xenophobic attacks, that's also calmed. But the team is playing badly and the board is giving no indication of direction. We want answers. Is that too much to ask?
- Humiliation? 5-0 and 6-0 are humiliations. Protests about 2 wins in 24 are rightly justified.
- I love this fucking football club so much, which is why I'm so upset. I want the board out. We are BEYOND cohesion with them. Well past it. As Grapevine49 puts it:
"Even if you accept their intentions are honourable, in face of the stumblingly poor performance both on and off the pitch, in the absence of any meaningful dialogue, people will register their dissatisfaction in any way they think appropriate."
----------------------------
Grapevine49 - top man.
And in case it needed clarifying, I'm Rick Everitt's man through and through here. Don't worry, I for one believe the "rumours"...
Our protests will cause the club more humiliation than any owner could?
I think even if fifty of us invaded the pitch, dropped our kecks and shat in front of the directors box, what the present Owner has done to Charlton thus far would still be more humiliating for the club.
I genuinely can't think of anything more humiliating than what the 'work' of Duchatelet, Miere, Murray and their flotsam
managershead coachespuppets have done to CAFC.I seem to be some sort of Hate Filled Sheep from Maidstone....
Anyway, I don't know if anyone can answer this question, but if Roland does indeed go at some point, is it possible he could end up leasing the Valley and facilities back to us? Is there the possibility that he might still end up with his hands in the coffers if he goes? I find that almost the most depressing thought of all, that even after he goes he doesn't quite cut off his revenue stream. I think he did something along these lines with another club he trashed didn't he?
I have seen the light. AFKA, rikofold, Airman, everybody has been manipulating me and everything is wonderful.
I welcome a step back to League One because as Sue points out a step back is the new step forward.
I might have to stop now as I feel an overwhelming compulsion to go to Harvey's to buy a new sofa.
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I think Karel Fraeye is the case that proves the point of those protesting. After two years, to appoint an obscure interim manager from a failing third division club, speaks bucketloads about how little RD/KM know of the division or think of our club.
Disclaimer: not really
The fact that Roland doesn't watch live games means he is ill equipped to gauge the feeling around the club, and see how tough things really are on the pitch.
I don't believe he watches all of the games as KM stated either, because if he did, he wouldn't keep funding the type of players we keep getting. Well I hope he wouldn't anyway because it's obvious to everyone they are not up to scratch.
When fans fought to get back to the Valley, they may have been considered as agitators at the time. I decided to support the team at Sellout and wasn’t part of the Valley Party. In all honesty, I thought it was a waste of time and the club needed my support. It probably did to a certain extent, but it needed the people who acted even more. I have learned from that experience and that is why I think we need to do this. It is heartbreaking to have to. It is depressing, what we have been told and how we as fans are treated. It isn’t just us saying it, it is a growing number of external observers, who have been made aware of the club’s plight. The last demonstration outside the ground was not full of militant fans, but included large numbers of fans who wouldn’t normally protest in this way. That the club has not done more to acknowledge this is shameful.
Fans are fans, whatever their views, but the fans who are protesting are doing so because they love the club and feel this is what they need to do to save it from death or a fate worse than death. That deserves respect whether you agree with it or not.
Rein her in Chris ffs
Listen, if RD stays around we will be taking 3 backwards (to the Conference) before going forward.
Or... maybe she is a genius who is actually trying to rally an uprising whilst appearing to be onside with the owners ;-)
I look a right troublemaker....
'Accept what's going on or piss off'
If the club have said that communication has been an issue that will be resolved, the option of dialogue with CAST is there but continuously not taken, it makes the CARD cause look more and more justified.