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Olympic Stadium; our day in court

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  • Who's paying for the warehouse that they have got by the stadium?

    Almost certainly you, (and I), but can you tell us more?. A separate building, next to the stadium? Was it there previously, can you recall? And does it have their name on? They have space inside the stadium, and @rikofold has been trying to get that valued, but its the first I heard of a separate building.
    My brother works over that way and mention a warehouse, just checked with him, it's inside the stadium.
    Ok so you are definitely paying for it. But if he could get a foto of this, we should still check it out.

  • Prague: what's the (your) end objective? It just looks like that the "powers" are just ignoring all these facts and carrying on regardless. But can you realistically see WHUFC moving from the stadium or sticking to a flimsy contract that restricts them from promoting their club allows and Bo Jo et al being brought before the courts for corruption?
    I wish you all the best in your endeavour but what do you think will pan out?
  • If West Ham want to have a subsidised stadium then the public purse should have a share of west ham's increased income above what it was receiving at Upton Park, including a percentage the PL payment for any season they receive it.
  • Solidgone said:

    Prague: what's the (your) end objective? It just looks like that the "powers" are just ignoring all these facts and carrying on regardless. But can you realistically see WHUFC moving from the stadium or sticking to a flimsy contract that restricts them from promoting their club allows and Bo Jo et al being brought before the courts for corruption?
    I wish you all the best in your endeavour but what do you think will pan out?

    Well, I won't go into too much detail because we know there are people monitoring this thread who don't share our perspective, let's say. But there are a few things we've made public

    1. We've never said West Ham should not play there. If the whole thing had been planned that way from the start, as in Manchester the huge public subsidy would not have been necessary. And as for the "matchday experience" they are welcome to it. The issue is the amount of taxpayers money, and the pitiful contribution West Ham make to it. From a Charlton point of view they have become a cost-free business (other than salaries), so they can afford to bung cheap deals around our catchment area. The taxpayer should pay less, and West Ham should pay more. That is a national issue, but the benefit for Charlton would be that West Ham would have to be more careful and stick to their knitting - in Essex.

    2. The contract is an absolute disgrace. I think we (the Coalition) will be very careful with our language beyond that point. We have no evidence at this time of "corruption" and uncovering any will be the task of journalists, of whom there are several taking an active long term interest. However the contract is such a disgrace that those responsible certainly can and should be held to account. And the Rt. Hon Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs is indeed one of those responsible.

    The Coalition is finalising its stage 2 strategy document and then we will start to ramp up the public dialogue again. It's a group effort, and I must say that a couple of other Lifers have made significant contributions to creating a robust and realistic set of demands for a re-working of the contract. In the apparently quiet period of the last couple of months the Coalition had very constructive meetings with relevant politicians. It will be through the political process that we will effect changes to the contract which reduce the amount you and I pay to subsidise West Ham United.

    Prague: Thanks for providing, an understandable guarded response. I guess it's a case of staying tuned.
  • Seeing all that claret and blue all over the stadium at the weekend made me angry all over again. Keep going @PragueAddick et al.
  • TelMc32 said:

    All over CityAM this morning...exposes just what Sullivan and Gold can rake in, offsetting debts against any sale. Taxpayer's hopes of recouping anything diminish considerably.

    Revealed: West Ham owners free to cash in on Olympic Stadium http://www.cityam.com/246554/revealed-west-ham-owners-free-cash-olympic-stadium-deal via @CityAM

    every revelation makes this look even worse ... quite astonishing how the taxpayer has been ripped off
  • .
    stonemuse said:

    TelMc32 said:

    All over CityAM this morning...exposes just what Sullivan and Gold can rake in, offsetting debts against any sale. Taxpayer's hopes of recouping anything diminish considerably.

    Revealed: West Ham owners free to cash in on Olympic Stadium http://www.cityam.com/246554/revealed-west-ham-owners-free-cash-olympic-stadium-deal via @CityAM

    every revelation makes this look even worse ... quite astonishing how the taxpayer has been ripped off
    No, what is astonishing is that there isn't a full public enquiry to look into and clear up all these concerns about the fairness of the contract to the public purse. If it's not such a poor deal for the taxpayer as everybody keeps thinking every time a new 'revelation' is made then that needs to be determined sooner rather than later.
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  • OSC did not know in advance that City AM would run this but we are of course delighted that they have done so. This was exactly what we hoped for as a result of full publication of the contract. It allows the professional journos with resources to really dig into it - and of course check with lawyers before the publish. And each article encourages other media outlets to find their own angles. All in turn helps us to push the politicians for a review.

    The trouble with a full public enquiry is that it is fiendishly expensive. Some people will claim that the cost might outweigh the possible savings. That would be stretching it, but it won't stop people saying it. We are looking for more pragmatic solutions which will trim their sails financially.

    I don't think the purpose of the public enquiry should be about trying to find savings. This needs complete transparency and the defensive approach that was adopted in response to the request to see the full contract coupled with what looks like on the face of it an unbelievably great deal for West Ham and an unbelievably poor one for the taxpayer means a drains up public enquiry may be the only way of putting this to bed.
  • Can anyone post the article? Site won't work with ad blocker. Thanks
  • colthe3rd said:

    Can anyone post the article? Site won't work with ad blocker. Thanks

    West Ham United’s complex deal for the Olympic Stadium, the full details of which are laid bare for the first time today, could make the football club’s wealthy owners even richer than previously thought – at the expense of the taxpayer.

    As the Hammers prepare to play their first match at the largely public-funded £700m venue this week, new analysis by City A.M. has revealed the extent to which billionaire David Sullivan and co-owner David Gold, who is worth an estimated £350m, are free to cash in on the deal.

    Legacy chiefs, who negotiated the contract with West Ham, were sufficiently concerned that Sullivan and Gold might make a quick fortune by selling up soon after relocating to the iconic stadium that their lease contains provision to recoup a percentage of any sale price to the public purse.

    But closer examination of the contract, which was the subject of a legal fight over attempts to suppress it, reveals that provision to be weaker than first reported – because debts can be offset against any sale. This means that Sullivan and Gold could bank a profit of around £31m without paying back a penny.

    Read more: West Ham climb up list of world's richest football clubs

    West Ham say 67-year-old Sullivan and 79-year-old Gold have no plans to sell, but their resolve could be tested as the club becomes more valuable than ever – thanks to their gleaming new home in a coveted location – and as foreign investors increasingly circle England’s top clubs.

    The east London team’s 99-year lease to be the main users of the 60,000-seater stadium for just £2.5m a year – a shade over the average top-flight player’s salary – plus a one-off payment of £15m has been described as “winning the lottery” by Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger.

    It could represent a personal windfall for their owners too, despite a clause requiring shareholders to repay a percentage to the public purse. That clause takes effect if the club is sold in a deal valuing it at £125m or more during the next 10 years.

    The threshold would likely be met, with West Ham valued at around £200m last year. That figure looks conservative now, due to the stadium move and a new era of stable profitability among Premier League sides boosting their values across the division.

    Crucially, however, West Ham’s contract with E20 Stadium LLP, a partnership between the London Legacy Development Corporation and Newham Council, states that the club’s debt – much of which is owed to the owners – is offset against the value of any sale.

    And with debt of £91m in the most recent accounts, it effectively means the sale price would need to be far higher to trigger a taxpayer return.

    The precise sums fluctuate depending on the club’s debt and when any hypothetical sale takes place, but are indicative of the owners’ strong position. Sullivan and Gold are also entitled to receive interest on their shareholder loans at a rate of between six and seven per cent, which is either paid in cash or added to the outstanding debt.

  • 2nd Part.

    If it took place now, even a £215m sale would fail to earn the taxpayer a penny, based on the club’s most up-to-date available financial information. Sullivan and Gold, meanwhile, would stand to pocket at least £165m – a profit of around £31m on their investment – in that scenario.

    A sale at a higher price would see some money trickle back to the public purse, but only a fraction of the take secured by long-time business associates Sullivan and Gold, who own 86.2 per cent of shares between them.

    A £250m sale would bank the pair £193m – a profit of at least £59m. By contrast, just £2.8m would return to the taxpayer. That is around one per cent of the £272m cost of converting the Olympic Stadium into a football-ready, 60,000-seat arena following London 2012.

    Were Sullivan and Gold to sell in a £300m deal, they would take £231m, representing a £97m profit. Less than £9m – £1.5m short of what the Hammers paid for star player Dimitri Payet last summer – would flow back to the taxpayer. From a £350m sale, Sullivan and Gold would take £265m – a profit of £131m – while the public purse would receive £19m.

    A spokesperson for West Ham told City A.M.: “This is a moot point because the chairmen have no intention of selling.”

    The London Legacy Development Corporation (LLDC) declined to comment.

    Sullivan reiterated in December that he and Gold were not looking to sell, although he conceded that they might be tempted if a wealthy individual made them a huge offer.

    “We have zero desire to sell the club unless the king of Saudi Arabia or the Sultan of Brunei come along. We’re not going to sell to an American or Chinese consortium,” he told Sky Sports.

    “We might sell a minority shareholding to clear our debts, but in all probability our kids will take over from us. We love West Ham; we’re not going anywhere.”

    Gold has argued that West Ham’s use of the stadium, which begins on Thursday when they play Slovenian side NK Domzale in a Europa League qualifying match, will prevent it from becoming a white elephant.

    Full details of West Ham’s contract for the stadium were only published in April after the LLDC accepted defeat in its legal fight with a football supporters’ coalition to keep some of the details secret.

    How it works: West Ham's Olympic Stadium contract

    West Ham’s 99-year lease for the Olympic Stadium contains a clause stipulating that a percentage of the proceeds of any sale of the club should go back to the public purse.

    In simplified terms, it means that any sale that values the club at £125m or more triggers a repayment of somewhere between 7.5 per cent and 30 per cent, with more punitive rates the higher the price tag and if the deal takes place before summer 2021. A sale after that would not trigger a repayment.

    However, the percentage is applied not to the value of the deal but to an “adjusted consideration”, offset against the club’s debt. This means that if there are substantial debts to pay off first, the sale value would need to significantly exceed £125m before the repayment clause was activated and the taxpayer saw any return.

    The club’s debt, owed in the main to David Sullivan and David Gold, stood at £91m when accounts were filed in November. Using that figure, if West Ham were sold today it would take an offer of more than £215m before any repayment was triggered.

    The owners: David Sullivan

    The club’s largest shareholder, with 51.1 per cent, made his first million in pornography, co-founded the Sunday Sport with David Gold and now boasts a £1bn fortune. The son of an RAF serviceman is originally from Cardiff but moved to London aged 12 and gained a degree in economics from Queen Mary University. Before buying their boyhood club, he and Gold owned Birmingham City for 26 years. His investment company Conegate owns prime London property and his motto, according to a 2009 interview, is: “What’s in it for me?”

    The owners: David Gold

    East-Ender Gold, who owns 35.1 per cent, has been in business with Sullivan for 30 years, at Sport Newspapers and Birmingham City before they took stakes in their beloved West Ham in 2010. He grew up yards from the club’s Upton Park stadium – their home until this summer’s move – and played for their youth team. Like Sullivan, early ventures included an adult magazine business; now Gold Group International owns the Ann Summers and Knickerbox chains, run by his daughters Jacqueline and Vanessa, and he is worth an estimated £350m.

    Manchester City and the rising value of English clubs

    Inheriting a state-funded venue on the cheap can help to transform a football club, as Manchester City have found.

    They moved into the City of Manchester Stadium in 2003 on a 250-year lease in exchange for a £20m one-off fee, the keys to their former ground and annual rent of around £4m.

    A shiny new home made City more attractive to investors, and they were sold to former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra four years later. Just 12 months on he sold to Sheikh Mansour of Abu Dhabi, whose vast wealth has turned the club into one of the richest in the world.

    It’s not only their new home that could make West Ham a takeover target. Soaring revenue from TV contracts has spawned a new era of profitability for Premier League teams, and that has rekindled the interest of investors.

    Manchester City, Crystal Palace, Swansea and Everton have all seen full or partial buyouts in the last year alone, and analysts predict demand for English clubs will continue to grow.
  • colthe3rd said:

    Can anyone post the article? Site won't work with ad blocker. Thanks

    Am out at the moment, but will try later. It's front page and double page spread inside, so quite a bit to go on.
  • Perhaps worth rewarding City AM for their work by turning off adblockers. AdBlock allows you to turn it off for individual sites (so you can also do the same for Charlton Life). Very easy to do.
  • Perhaps worth rewarding City AM for their work by turning off adblockers. AdBlock allows you to turn it off for individual sites (so you can also do the same for Charlton Life). Very easy to do.

    I will not be a slave to the corporate machine.
  • colthe3rd said:

    Perhaps worth rewarding City AM for their work by turning off adblockers. AdBlock allows you to turn it off for individual sites (so you can also do the same for Charlton Life). Very easy to do.

    I will not be a slave to the corporate machine.
    that attitude will ensure that proper journalism will disappear, to be replaced by outlets bankrolled by Trump and Putin.
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  • colthe3rd said:

    Perhaps worth rewarding City AM for their work by turning off adblockers. AdBlock allows you to turn it off for individual sites (so you can also do the same for Charlton Life). Very easy to do.

    I will not be a slave to the corporate machine.
    that attitude will ensure that proper journalism will disappear, to be replaced by outlets bankrolled by Trump and Putin.
    My comment was tongue in cheek but proper journalism disappeared years ago. If it can't be reported in a slideshow or a list of the top 27 things then it ain't worth knowing about.
  • Slaven Bilic charges West Ham players with bringing life to new Boleyn

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/aug/03/slaven-bilic-west-ham-new-stadium-olympic-park-boleyn?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

    They're having an opening ceremony for the Juventus game. I wonder who's paying for that.
  • edited August 2016
    GRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "it's a steal, it's a deal. it's the sale of the fucking century" (Lock Stock)

    image
  • To quote, "The corridors of the Olympic Stadium have been given a makeover in the claret and blue colours of their new owners"

    There you have it, as far as outsiders are concerned West Ham own that ground, not bad for £15m!

  • vffvff
    edited August 2016
    Any success that WHU achieve from now on will be tainted by this sleazy anti competitive Olympic Stadium Deal contract. Any decent WHU supporter should be embarrassed by the whole affair, that undermines the competitive integrity of premiership & whatever competition they enter & win. Makes me want to walk away from football entirely. Totally shameful.
  • http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/revealed-why-west-hams-first-game-at-the-olympic-stadium-is-not-on-tv-a3312201.html

    In the qualifying rounds, the home clubs sell the rights to the games and NK Domzale agreed a deal with BT last week to screen the first leg.

    However, West Ham’s game will not be shown. The club claim it is not over fears that spectators could opt to stay at home to watch the match, as previously briefed.

    They say they did not receive an offer that was “commercially viable”.

    BT insist the match was not made available to them to screen and therefore no bid was made.
  • vff said:

    Any success that WHU achieve from now on will be tainted by this sleazy anti competitive Olympic Stadium Deal contract. Any decent WHU supporter should be embarrassed by the whole affair, that undermines the competitive integrity of premiership & whatever competition they enter & win. Makes me want to walk away from football entirely. Totally shameful.

    Be honest, if that was Charlton, would you be embarrassed? I would just think, a major cock up, but if we win out of it great. I do not blame West Ham fans, just Boris and his cronies for letting it happen
  • edited August 2016
    They couldn't sell out for their first game and it's not even on TV. Doubt they'd have filled past the bottom tier if it was on the box.

    image
  • Makes you down hearted that Charlton down have anything like that to look forward to! Best we've got in the future at the moment is a strenuous campaign in hope of promotion back to the second tier
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