On one hand, I'm happy with the anti-establishment result. On the other hand, I'm fearful that life is most likely only going to get worse for the majority.
It should've been Bernie.
Then you can blame the Democratic Party for actively working against him.
He then said it would be any country compromised by Terrorism, so his policy was no longer a blanket ban
How very unspecific. Does compromised mean just one incident of terrorism or is there a set number? Given the huge numbers of terrorist incidents around the world it does rule out an awful lot of countries.
On one hand, I'm happy with the anti-establishment result. On the other hand, I'm fearful that life is most likely only going to get worse for the majority.
It should've been Bernie.
Then you can blame the Democratic Party for actively working against him.
I have said as much earlier in the thread.
My only hope is that in the long term, this result opens the floor to those outside of the political establishment on both the left and the right.
Well isn't this just so f*cking hilarious. Looks like some of you should have studied the evidence about the Clinton Foundation that I posted earlier (and was subsequently proved to be true by Wikileaks), instead you continued to believe the crooked, biased leftist media, the crooked, biased Polls and your Twitter feeds, where the likes of Leuth seems to get all his information lol. The game is now up for you Marxists and leftists. You have infected academia, the media and the Hollywood set. Your social engineering ideals have brought the Western World and western culture to the edge of destruction. Your brand of PC, Identity politics has caused terrible devision, animosity, and left huge numbers of people afraid to even open their mouths for fear of being labelled "racist, xenophobic, homophobic" etc, simply because they want secure borders, safety for their families, jobs, or even because they simply believe in the traditional definition of marriage. Well, the silent majority has now spoken. First with Brexit, now Trump, and next watch for France and Germany to go exactly the same way. Seriously though, how out of is the media these day's? How out of touch is CL?Where are all the conservatives? (Too frightened to speak out probably for fear of being labelled a Jimmy Savile sympathiser or a bigot, as I have been on this thread!) The mainstream media and Charlton Life are certainly not representative of the majority are they ( Trump is winning the popular vote as well BTW). 65 pages here of overwhelmingly anti Trump sentiment, and yet the majority of Americans voted for him, very strange! Suck it up all you Lefties, this is where the kick back begins, you got so far but ultimately you failed, just as socialism always fails, but not before it has caused immeasurable damage. Mwahahhahaaahaah!
I like you.
Imagine the knicker twisting that will go on, on here if Le Pen gets in over in France hahaha.
The revolution has started people, change is a coming
You work in an industry that's booming, you've never been richer. Yet you want revolution. Makes sense.
So (in effect) it's not all about money & economics for him, maybe? A perfectly coherent view, and though much was made of the economic struggles of the rust belt, there were plenty of other issues which drive the outcome: security/crime/terrorism, fundemental social issues (= who controls the Supreme Court), immigration...
Ok so if it isn't to do with economics and how they affect you personally. I wonder what do the Tories/UKIP, Trump and Le Pen all have in common? Tough one that.
TBH, speaking as someone who is very definitely on the left of the spectrum, it's this sort of lazy lumping everyone together that drives working class people to imagine they have something in common with a billionaire. I wish I was rich enough to be anti-establishment!
The Tories and UKIP are not one and the same. The Tories are effectively a coalition of different views and can range between people who are classical liberals like Sir Keith Joseph was (in the original sense of the term rather than meaning " a bit left wing" as people interpret it now), to right wing libertarians (arguably David Davies is one of these) to authoritarian conservatives (looks like this is where Theresa May will sit). The common thread they have is they tend to be economically conservative. Within that mix there are people who are accepting of people who are not white, male and heterosexual (Cameron) and people who aren't. There are all sorts of reasons for this, but it's a big leap to assume that everyone who doesn't is a racist/sexist/homophobe. It's also bad politics but I'll return to that.
UKIP doesn't have the same range of views as far as I can see, and there's a lot of inconsistencies in what their supporters have said, but seem to me to be Thatcherites - economically and socially conservative, in favour of certain freedoms and resentful about how the world has changed (ironically a lot of it was down to Thatcher embracing changes that threw off the old patrician "we know better than you" class that ran a lot of institutions). While I think there are dangerous things associated with UKIP, they're not fascists and a lot of them aren't racists. People have contradictory views.
Le Pen is far scarier, I think, because she is a natural authoritarian with racist instincts. If Trump holds true to his isolationism, it could be the biggest boost that a lot of the left have wanted in years: the end of NATO, all the dreadful free trade agreements that allow US corporations to sue countries that introduce minimum wages or environmental protection, fewer Middle Eastern countries bombed, possibly even an end to the US propping up the corrupt Saudi regime. I doubt most of that will happen and I'm truly sorry for the people likely to be hit by his domestic policies (such as anyone needing healthcare, as SDAddick has pointed out). He could slide into something fascist, but to characterise him as that at the moment would be such a loose definition of fascism as to be meaningless. He won't be able to help the white working class in the way that many imagine he will be able to, and I suspect that many of the people who've voted for the first time in years for him will be disappointed, especially as they will be reliant on a Republican Party Congress that is just as much part of the "swamp" as its Democratic Party counterpart.
To return to how this is bad politics: most people accept that racism is bad. If people are doing or saying something that someone thinks is racist - how should you deal with it? Point out that it might be racist and suggest it be rephrased or shout them down and call them names? If you want to fight racism, you have to argue with people. Some people won't get it and won't be receptive. Some people will carry on regardless. Some people will change. It won't happen overnight. But one thing that is guaranteed is that shouting at people won't change their minds. (There are times when shouting at people might be the right thing to do, but this is rarely true on an internet forum dedicated to a 3rd level football club).
He then said it would be any country compromised by Terrorism, so his policy was no longer a blanket ban
It's all a question of how you define "compromised" though, isn't it.
Terrorism, arguably, "compromises" large chunks of the Middle East and Africa, India, Pakistan, China, Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, France, Germany, Belgium, the UK (if we count Northern Ireland), Philippines, Indonesia, Myanmar, Bangladesh, etc.
I won't even get on to the question of how terrorism is defined...
He snuck in thanks to the electoral college system, not more votes.
No, they are still counting some votes, and CNN at least thinks Trump will win (narrowly) on popular vote - I guess because it's mainly rural counties still to declare.
If the system was different, then people may have voted differently anyway, or more people may have voted
For example, if your state is 75% one party, it's fairly pointless voting for someone else, as your vote will make no difference
Possibly, though don't forget that there were senate & house elections, issue votes (e.g. death penalty, etc.) all going on as well, so even in a safe state you might have reason to turn out.
Well isn't this just so f*cking hilarious. Looks like some of you should have studied the evidence about the Clinton Foundation that I posted earlier (and was subsequently proved to be true by Wikileaks), instead you continued to believe the crooked, biased leftist media, the crooked, biased Polls and your Twitter feeds, where the likes of Leuth seems to get all his information lol. The game is now up for you Marxists and leftists. You have infected academia, the media and the Hollywood set. Your social engineering ideals have brought the Western World and western culture to the edge of destruction. Your brand of PC, Identity politics has caused terrible devision, animosity, and left huge numbers of people afraid to even open their mouths for fear of being labelled "racist, xenophobic, homophobic" etc, simply because they want secure borders, safety for their families, jobs, or even because they simply believe in the traditional definition of marriage. Well, the silent majority has now spoken. First with Brexit, now Trump, and next watch for France and Germany to go exactly the same way. Seriously though, how out of is the media these day's? How out of touch is CL?Where are all the conservatives? (Too frightened to speak out probably for fear of being labelled a Jimmy Savile sympathiser or a bigot, as I have been on this thread!) The mainstream media and Charlton Life are certainly not representative of the majority are they ( Trump is winning the popular vote as well BTW). 65 pages here of overwhelmingly anti Trump sentiment, and yet the majority of Americans voted for him, very strange! Suck it up all you Lefties, this is where the kick back begins, you got so far but ultimately you failed, just as socialism always fails, but not before it has caused immeasurable damage. Mwahahhahaaahaah!
I like you.
Imagine the knicker twisting that will go on, on here if Le Pen gets in over in France hahaha.
The revolution has started people, change is a coming
You work in an industry that's booming, you've never been richer. Yet you want revolution. Makes sense.
So (in effect) it's not all about money & economics for him, maybe? A perfectly coherent view, and though much was made of the economic struggles of the rust belt, there were plenty of other issues which drive the outcome: security/crime/terrorism, fundemental social issues (= who controls the Supreme Court), immigration...
Ok so if it isn't to do with economics and how they affect you personally. I wonder what do the Tories/UKIP, Trump and Le Pen all have in common? Tough one that.
TBH, speaking as someone who is very definitely on the left of the spectrum, it's this sort of lazy lumping everyone together that drives working class people to imagine they have something in common with a billionaire. I wish I was rich enough to be anti-establishment!
The Tories and UKIP are not one and the same. The Tories are effectively a coalition of different views and can range between people who are classical liberals like Sir Keith Joseph was (in the original sense of the term rather than meaning " a bit left wing" as people interpret it now), to right wing libertarians (arguably David Davies is one of these) to authoritarian conservatives (looks like this is where Theresa May will sit). The common thread they have is they tend to be economically conservative. Within that mix there are people who are accepting of people who are not white, male and heterosexual (Cameron) and people who aren't. There are all sorts of reasons for this, but it's a big leap to assume that everyone who doesn't is a racist/sexist/homophobe. It's also bad politics but I'll return to that.
UKIP doesn't have the same range of views as far as I can see, and there's a lot of inconsistencies in what their supporters have said, but seem to me to be Thatcherites - economically and socially conservative, in favour of certain freedoms and resentful about how the world has changed (ironically a lot of it was down to Thatcher embracing changes that threw off the old patrician "we know better than you" class that ran a lot of institutions). While I think there are dangerous things associated with UKIP, they're not fascists and a lot of them aren't racists. People have contradictory views.
Le Pen is far scarier, I think, because she is a natural authoritarian with racist instincts. If Trump holds true to his isolationism, it could be the biggest boost that a lot of the left have wanted in years: the end of NATO, all the dreadful free trade agreements that allow US corporations to sue countries that introduce minimum wages or environmental protection, fewer Middle Eastern countries bombed, possibly even an end to the US propping up the corrupt Saudi regime. I doubt most of that will happen and I'm truly sorry for the people likely to be hit by his domestic policies (such as anyone needing healthcare, as SDAddick has pointed out). He could slide into something fascist, but to characterise him as that at the moment would be such a loose definition of fascism as to be meaningless. He won't be able to help the white working class in the way that many imagine he will be able to, and I suspect that many of the people who've voted for the first time in years for him will be disappointed, especially as they will be reliant on a Republican Party Congress that is just as much part of the "swamp" as its Democratic Party counterpart.
To return to how this is bad politics: most people accept that racism is bad. If people are doing or saying something that someone thinks is racist - how should you deal with it? Point out that it might be racist and suggest it be rephrased or shout them down and call them names? If you want to fight racism, you have to argue with people. Some people won't get it and won't be receptive. Some people will carry on regardless. Some people will change. It won't happen overnight. But one thing that is guaranteed is that shouting at people won't change their minds. (There are times when shouting at people might be the right thing to do, but this is rarely true on an internet forum dedicated to a 3rd level football club).
Tbh I agree with a lot of what you have posted and for the most part I agree. However I was not lumping all working class people together, just the one I was responding to.
He then said it would be any country compromised by Terrorism, so his policy was no longer a blanket ban
It's all a question of how you define "compromised" though, isn't it.
Terrorism, arguably, "compromises" large chunks of the Middle East and Africa, India, Pakistan, China, Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, France, Germany, Belgium, the UK (if we count Northern Ireland), Philippines, Indonesia, Myanmar, Bangladesh, etc.
I won't even get on to the question of how terrorism is defined...
I never said it was well thought out, but for a country still scared by 9/11 it resonates with voters especially with what was going on in Europe at the time.
Trump understood Americans misguided view of the world and tapped into that that why his sound bites worked. As a salesman he knew his market and sold them his dream.
Putting his bluster to one side, I think his winning speech showed he will be more open than many think.
Clinton's campaign manager (?) speaking earlier was bizarre. Easily could have thought they had won from the tone of his voice, apart from the bit where he told everyone to go home.
could it be that the under $50,000 income stream is composed of (e.g.) many welfare claimants (excuse the stereotyping), female Mexican maids, waitresses, laundry workers and catering workers who would be natural Clinton fans ?
.. I would imagine that most skilled 'blue collar' and lower grade white collar workers who voted Trump and are scared for their jobs, their communities and their nation earn in excess of $50,000 .. Trump appeals to a similar electorate as does Ukip .. WASPs, disillusioned socialists and those sick of the out of touch luvvie classes who gravitate towards a career as a professional politician
Pro politicians spend a lot of time and effort simply to placate and bullshit the electorate in an attempt to ensure that they are re-elected .. they will maintain the status quo (whatever you want), and thereby achieve very little in the way of change for the better ..
Trump is 70 years old, not a professional politico in the accepted sense of the term .. he may be content with one term, he's prepared to rock and perhaps even overturn the national boat during his tenure .. I would hope that if the boat is overturned it will be righted and that the USA will be a better place for the ducking it's received .. whether this is better or worse than sailing round in circles (excuse the mixed metaphor) whilst getting nowhere with Clinton is a matter of opinion .. the US electorate has chosen to take a chance and to sail through uncharted waters where the weather may be choppy and dangerous .. good on 'em .. in 4 years time they can always go back to the pro politico do nothings if Trump belies his name and turns out to be a busted flush
This is so patronising haha, do you genuinely think that just because people want change that the majority just vote without researching?? Ffs
Do you seriously believe that everyone who votes does so with a full understanding of the issues, the facts, and the potential consequences of their vote? Do you seriously believe there aren't people out there who would vote for a turd dressed as a donkey if it was wearing the right colour tie?
History tells us that populist leaders selling easy answers and blaming minorities can do very well in elections, but that sometime their time in office leads to some scary stuff happening.
People are moving, politically, to the extremes, just at a time when what will really fix our issues is a centerist consensus designed to improve the lot of the many, not of the few because the few are already "doing just fine thanks mate". People like Trump and Farage are wolves in lambs clothing, they preach fixing things for the little guy, but their agenda is really a self serving one designed to make them richer. Unfortunately the centre ground lacks charismatic leaders the world over, Maybe Trudeau here in Canada but Canada isn't a major player on the world scene. Obama is a great public speaker but the voters screwed over their chances of him bringing about any meaningful change by lumbering him with a Republican senate that ground the whole train to a halt.
The rise of the extreme right worries me, as would a rise in the extreme left. Last we saw this kind of thing going on we eventually ended up with Nazis, facists and communists all over europe and evetually a world war followed by a cold war.
An extreme example of what can happen, for sure, but it has happened before so it can happen again and we (as is people in the west with the vote) have just given a swivel eyed loon the nuclear codes and control of the largest military in the world and voted for brexit which has put wind in the sails of extremist parties all over europe.
Clinton's campaign manager (?) speaking earlier was bizarre. Easily could have thought they had won from the tone of his voice, apart from the bit where he told everyone to go home.
Totally gobsmacked watching that earlier this morning and astonished she went to her hotel and left her most loyal supporters standing there.
Well isn't this just so f*cking hilarious. Looks like some of you should have studied the evidence about the Clinton Foundation that I posted earlier (and was subsequently proved to be true by Wikileaks), instead you continued to believe the crooked, biased leftist media, the crooked, biased Polls and your Twitter feeds, where the likes of Leuth seems to get all his information lol. The game is now up for you Marxists and leftists. You have infected academia, the media and the Hollywood set. Your social engineering ideals have brought the Western World and western culture to the edge of destruction. Your brand of PC, Identity politics has caused terrible devision, animosity, and left huge numbers of people afraid to even open their mouths for fear of being labelled "racist, xenophobic, homophobic" etc, simply because they want secure borders, safety for their families, jobs, or even because they simply believe in the traditional definition of marriage. Well, the silent majority has now spoken. First with Brexit, now Trump, and next watch for France and Germany to go exactly the same way. Seriously though, how out of is the media these day's? How out of touch is CL?Where are all the conservatives? (Too frightened to speak out probably for fear of being labelled a Jimmy Savile sympathiser or a bigot, as I have been on this thread!) The mainstream media and Charlton Life are certainly not representative of the majority are they ( Trump is winning the popular vote as well BTW). 65 pages here of overwhelmingly anti Trump sentiment, and yet the majority of Americans voted for him, very strange! Suck it up all you Lefties, this is where the kick back begins, you got so far but ultimately you failed, just as socialism always fails, but not before it has caused immeasurable damage. Mwahahhahaaahaah!
You really are a tragic character - you rant like a madman. Where is this biased leftist media you go on about? We in Britain have a right wing press largely owned by Murdoch which discourages free speech. Trump openly encourages homophobia racism and bigotry and somehow this is to be encouraged? Perhaps we should turn the law back to criminalise homosexuality, reintroduce segregation and allow fundamentalist christians to exercise their bigotry and intolerance openly. This is a victory for intolerance which you obviously see as a good thing - I dread to think what your real views are. It saddens me how full of hatred people are - Trump will just encourage the bigots.
"Tragic character" yeh me and 5 million Americans. You Lefties just don't get it do you. You lost, it's over, get used to it. Keep calling us bigots, homophobes, xenophobes as much as you want, it doesn't work anymore, the masses have had enough of it. If you can't see that the media is biased when 96% of media articles were anti Trump, then you must be deaf and blind.
Do you actually believe in a free press? Can you actually debate or is petty name calling the level you operate at? Trump is openly racist and how will this be good for the US?
Trump's message is built on hatred and negativity - he doesn't have anything positive to say and his ideas are nonsensical. When will his imaginary wall be built and how is he going to deport the 11 million illegals he refers to? What happens when he inevitably doesn't deliver?
I am neither deaf nor blind just saddened that such an awful man is now the President. Clinton was also a poor candidate and it reflects badly on US politics that this was the choice.
I don't understand the faith people have in Trump to deliver - he cares little for anyone but himself. We needed a candidate with intelligence and vision which I can hardly attribute to him. There is nothing to celebrate in the election of such an ignorant man.
I'm unclear what those who voted for him expect to happen
Says he who's opening line was "you really are a tragic character - you rant like a madman". So what name did I call you then? A Leftie ? Terribly sorry for calling you a Leftie. Bet you don't apologise for calling me a madman!
As I said do you believe in a free press and debate or is it just a we won and you didn't argument? You ranted on about a liberal media but in the UK we have a right wing press and Sky who are bankrolled by Murdoch who tries to dictate election outcomes. The fantasy world of Trump ignores his numerous flaws and I would love you to explain on what basis you think he will deliver? Try and explain to me in simple language what he's going to do to benefit the average American - do you think he cares about them?
How long will his wall take to build? The cost? How long will it take to deport the 11 million illegals? The cost? How will the tariffs he refers to impact world trade? How will the fragile race relations in the US be dealt with? What will happen to Nato?
Anyone daft enough to put their faith in this buffoon is incredibly naive - he couldn't even be trusted with his own Twitter account given how thin skinned he is.
Regardless of your politics whether they be left or right I think its very sad that such a self-serving individual has won. Clinton narrowly won the popular vote which suggests a hugely polarised outcome.
Some of the views expressed by his supporters are truly shocking and the inflammatory language used in his campaign doesn't augur well. I despise racism and misogyny and to have a President so steeped in that language is an appalling example. It's just banter though isn't it!
The rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer. Everyone saying he made a great acceptance speech he must be decent. Let's see in 4 years time if he has left a legacy that won't ruin the world.
I'm quite certain it's the views of people like Leuth, as opposed to say SDAddick, that swung the results in favour of Brexit and Donald Trump.
I was 50/50 ish on Brexit, but it was definitely Leuth type comments that swung it for me. (I was against Trump).
We had 13 years (1997-2010) of being unable to voice legitimate concerns over LEVELS of immigration, without being shouted down and labelled as racist or bigots, that's a very long time. It wasn't just immigration, it was other matters like people on benefits living in 5 or more bedroom houses, whilst some working first time buyers, couldn't even afford a one bed flat. Labour disregarded their core voters and UKIP rose from nothing.
The tactic of allowing unfair policies and not being allowed to have an opinion has spectacularly backfired.
10 years ago this post would have been labelled racist, even 5 years ago.
Today many people now appreciate that it's better to talk, but not everyone.
Events of the past 5 months have confirmed what I have long thought, and that is that many people in Politics and the Media, and almost every person with left wing sympathies are totally out of touch with with the feelings of the common working class person.
America just like Britain have voted with their heart. Clearly the policies of Nigel Farage and Donald Trump appealed to an awful lot of working class people who all feel badly let down by the mainstream politicians.
Charlton Life is dominated by these same people that think they know best and dismiss anyone who dares to question their opinions. I predicted before Brexit that Essex man would vote on mass to Leave and was proved right. I also said on this site last week that if I was American I would have voted Trump.
For both comments and I was ridiculed by some of left wing "luvvies" on this site who once again have been proved wrong.
I will make a third prediction and that is that over the next couple of years the working class people of Germany, France, Holland will all want to follow Britain and get out of the EU.
This is just the start!
2016 Presidential vote split Income under $30,000 Clinton 53%, Trump 41% Income $30,000 - $49,999 Clinton 51%, Trump 42%
Income $250,000 or more Clinton 46%, Trump 48%
Please tell us all again how Trump's victory was all about the "feelings of the common working class person".
Matches up with what @SDAddick mentioned about a lot of americans aspiring to have what Trump has ie; lots of money.
I'm quite certain it's the views of people like Leuth, as opposed to say SDAddick, that swung the results in favour of Brexit and Donald Trump.
I was 50/50 ish on Brexit, but it was definitely Leuth type comments that swung it for me. (I was against Trump).
We had 13 years (1997-2010) of being unable to voice legitimate concerns over LEVELS of immigration, without being shouted down and labelled as racist or bigots, that's a very long time. It wasn't just immigration, it was other matters like people on benefits living in 5 or more bedroom houses, whilst some working first time buyers, couldn't even afford a one bed flat. Labour disregarded their core voters and UKIP rose from nothing.
The tactic of allowing unfair policies and not being allowed to have an opinion has spectacularly backfired.
10 years ago this post would have been labelled racist, even 5 years ago.
Today many people now appreciate that it's better to talk, but not everyone.
super post .. sensible and NOT 'sensationalist' ((:>)
I'm quite certain it's the views of people like Leuth, as opposed to say SDAddick, that swung the results in favour of Brexit and Donald Trump.
I was 50/50 ish on Brexit, but it was definitely Leuth type comments that swung it for me. (I was against Trump).
We had 13 years (1997-2010) of being unable to voice legitimate concerns over LEVELS of immigration, without being shouted down and labelled as racist or bigots, that's a very long time. It wasn't just immigration, it was other matters like people on benefits living in 5 or more bedroom houses, whilst some working first time buyers, couldn't even afford a one bed flat. Labour disregarded their core voters and UKIP rose from nothing.
The tactic of allowing unfair policies and not being allowed to have an opinion has spectacularly backfired.
10 years ago this post would have been labelled racist, even 5 years ago.
Today many people now appreciate that it's better to talk, but not everyone.
Agreed and echoes exactly what I said after the Brexit vote.
If progressives want to achieve anything in this world, they need to stop treating everyone who does not share their point of view as being racists, misogynists, or in favour of 'Muslim death camps'. They (we, I suppose in certain circumstances) also need to stop assuming that by virtue of being progressive they are automatically more intelligent or more enlightened or even morally superior to those who are not entirely progressive. Compare with the election of Corbyn as leader and his supporters, exemplified perfectly by the so-called independent "news" source The Canary that was started purely because they felt the media was not reporting fairly on Corbyn; it basically labels anyone who is not a Corbyn supporter a fascist.
Comments
My only hope is that in the long term, this result opens the floor to those outside of the political establishment on both the left and the right.
I wish I was rich enough to be anti-establishment!
The Tories and UKIP are not one and the same. The Tories are effectively a coalition of different views and can range between people who are classical liberals like Sir Keith Joseph was (in the original sense of the term rather than meaning " a bit left wing" as people interpret it now), to right wing libertarians (arguably David Davies is one of these) to authoritarian conservatives (looks like this is where Theresa May will sit). The common thread they have is they tend to be economically conservative. Within that mix there are people who are accepting of people who are not white, male and heterosexual (Cameron) and people who aren't. There are all sorts of reasons for this, but it's a big leap to assume that everyone who doesn't is a racist/sexist/homophobe. It's also bad politics but I'll return to that.
UKIP doesn't have the same range of views as far as I can see, and there's a lot of inconsistencies in what their supporters have said, but seem to me to be Thatcherites - economically and socially conservative, in favour of certain freedoms and resentful about how the world has changed (ironically a lot of it was down to Thatcher embracing changes that threw off the old patrician "we know better than you" class that ran a lot of institutions). While I think there are dangerous things associated with UKIP, they're not fascists and a lot of them aren't racists. People have contradictory views.
Le Pen is far scarier, I think, because she is a natural authoritarian with racist instincts. If Trump holds true to his isolationism, it could be the biggest boost that a lot of the left have wanted in years: the end of NATO, all the dreadful free trade agreements that allow US corporations to sue countries that introduce minimum wages or environmental protection, fewer Middle Eastern countries bombed, possibly even an end to the US propping up the corrupt Saudi regime. I doubt most of that will happen and I'm truly sorry for the people likely to be hit by his domestic policies (such as anyone needing healthcare, as SDAddick has pointed out). He could slide into something fascist, but to characterise him as that at the moment would be such a loose definition of fascism as to be meaningless. He won't be able to help the white working class in the way that many imagine he will be able to, and I suspect that many of the people who've voted for the first time in years for him will be disappointed, especially as they will be reliant on a Republican Party Congress that is just as much part of the "swamp" as its Democratic Party counterpart.
To return to how this is bad politics: most people accept that racism is bad. If people are doing or saying something that someone thinks is racist - how should you deal with it? Point out that it might be racist and suggest it be rephrased or shout them down and call them names? If you want to fight racism, you have to argue with people. Some people won't get it and won't be receptive. Some people will carry on regardless. Some people will change. It won't happen overnight. But one thing that is guaranteed is that shouting at people won't change their minds. (There are times when shouting at people might be the right thing to do, but this is rarely true on an internet forum dedicated to a 3rd level football club).
Of course not. This is dog whistle politics at its most blatant.
Terrorism, arguably, "compromises" large chunks of the Middle East and Africa, India, Pakistan, China, Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, France, Germany, Belgium, the UK (if we count Northern Ireland), Philippines, Indonesia, Myanmar, Bangladesh, etc.
I won't even get on to the question of how terrorism is defined...
Trump understood Americans misguided view of the world and tapped into that that why his sound bites worked. As a salesman he knew his market and sold them his dream.
Putting his bluster to one side, I think his winning speech showed he will be more open than many think.
It's a white middle America issue.
I highly recommend this, Stewart, Colbert, Bee, Helms (of the American office) and a lot of other funny people you probably haven't heard of.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/America-the-Book/dp/B000V645T0/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1478706989&sr=8-6&keywords=America+the+book
I particularly recommend the audiobook which I'll be listening to in between meetings today.
I'm left leaning.
On one hand, I'm happy with the anti-establishment result. .
I've got a really great pair of orthopedic shoes you can have. They are absolutely amazing. Terrific.
Actually, I may have built them up too much.
.. I would imagine that most skilled 'blue collar' and lower grade white collar workers who voted Trump and are scared for their jobs, their communities and their nation earn in excess of $50,000 .. Trump appeals to a similar electorate as does Ukip .. WASPs, disillusioned socialists and those sick of the out of touch luvvie classes who gravitate towards a career as a professional politician
Pro politicians spend a lot of time and effort simply to placate and bullshit the electorate in an attempt to ensure that they are re-elected .. they will maintain the status quo (whatever you want), and thereby achieve very little in the way of change for the better ..
Trump is 70 years old, not a professional politico in the accepted sense of the term .. he may be content with one term, he's prepared to rock and perhaps even overturn the national boat during his tenure ..
I would hope that if the boat is overturned it will be righted and that the USA will be a better place for the ducking it's received .. whether this is better or worse than sailing round in circles (excuse the mixed metaphor) whilst getting nowhere with Clinton is a matter of opinion ..
the US electorate has chosen to take a chance and to sail through uncharted waters where the weather may be choppy and dangerous .. good on 'em .. in 4 years time they can always go back to the pro politico do nothings if Trump belies his name and turns out to be a busted flush
History tells us that populist leaders selling easy answers and blaming minorities can do very well in elections, but that sometime their time in office leads to some scary stuff happening.
People are moving, politically, to the extremes, just at a time when what will really fix our issues is a centerist consensus designed to improve the lot of the many, not of the few because the few are already "doing just fine thanks mate". People like Trump and Farage are wolves in lambs clothing, they preach fixing things for the little guy, but their agenda is really a self serving one designed to make them richer. Unfortunately the centre ground lacks charismatic leaders the world over, Maybe Trudeau here in Canada but Canada isn't a major player on the world scene. Obama is a great public speaker but the voters screwed over their chances of him bringing about any meaningful change by lumbering him with a Republican senate that ground the whole train to a halt.
The rise of the extreme right worries me, as would a rise in the extreme left. Last we saw this kind of thing going on we eventually ended up with Nazis, facists and communists all over europe and evetually a world war followed by a cold war.
An extreme example of what can happen, for sure, but it has happened before so it can happen again and we (as is people in the west with the vote) have just given a swivel eyed loon the nuclear codes and control of the largest military in the world and voted for brexit which has put wind in the sails of extremist parties all over europe.
Hardly POTUS material imo
You ranted on about a liberal media but in the UK we have a right wing press and Sky who are bankrolled by Murdoch who tries to dictate election outcomes.
The fantasy world of Trump ignores his numerous flaws and I would love you to explain on what basis you think he will deliver?
Try and explain to me in simple language what he's going to do to benefit the average American - do you think he cares about them?
How long will his wall take to build? The cost?
How long will it take to deport the 11 million illegals? The cost?
How will the tariffs he refers to impact world trade?
How will the fragile race relations in the US be dealt with?
What will happen to Nato?
Anyone daft enough to put their faith in this buffoon is incredibly naive - he couldn't even be trusted with his own Twitter account given how thin skinned he is.
Regardless of your politics whether they be left or right I think its very sad that such a self-serving individual has won. Clinton narrowly won the popular vote which suggests a hugely polarised outcome.
Some of the views expressed by his supporters are truly shocking and the inflammatory language used in his campaign doesn't augur well. I despise racism and misogyny and to have a President so steeped in that language is an appalling example. It's just banter though isn't it!
Gun sales should do well though!!!
I was 50/50 ish on Brexit, but it was definitely Leuth type comments that swung it for me. (I was against Trump).
We had 13 years (1997-2010) of being unable to voice legitimate concerns over LEVELS of immigration, without being shouted down and labelled as racist or bigots, that's a very long time. It wasn't just immigration, it was other matters like people on benefits living in 5 or more bedroom houses, whilst some working first time buyers, couldn't even afford a one bed flat. Labour disregarded their core voters and UKIP rose from nothing.
The tactic of allowing unfair policies and not being allowed to have an opinion has spectacularly backfired.
10 years ago this post would have been labelled racist, even 5 years ago.
Today many people now appreciate that it's better to talk, but not everyone.
If progressives want to achieve anything in this world, they need to stop treating everyone who does not share their point of view as being racists, misogynists, or in favour of 'Muslim death camps'. They (we, I suppose in certain circumstances) also need to stop assuming that by virtue of being progressive they are automatically more intelligent or more enlightened or even morally superior to those who are not entirely progressive. Compare with the election of Corbyn as leader and his supporters, exemplified perfectly by the so-called independent "news" source The Canary that was started purely because they felt the media was not reporting fairly on Corbyn; it basically labels anyone who is not a Corbyn supporter a fascist.