Will Trump become President?
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Still Americans. I underestimated the stupidity of a nation, as did many.The Organiser said:
Well you called the election wrong so who's the stupid one?JaShea99 said:Wow. Just when you think Americans can't get any more stupid...
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USA v Mexico on Friday, will be in interesting, what will happen if the yanks get a free kick just outside the penalty box?11
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just look for chinks (no racial slur intended) in the Mexican wall ((:>) .. the USA wall will be 'beautiful'guinnessaddick said:USA v Mexico on Friday, will be in interesting, what will happen if the yanks get a free kick just outside the penalty box?
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You genuinely can't help it can you?Leuth said:
It certainly is better to talk, yes, especially if one is confronted with poisonous bulls**t masquerading as a working person's revolution that only serves to further entrench the power of the demagogues. It's extremely important to call this s**t out before it becomes accepted as common wisdom, which sadly seems to have happened here. Now, of course you're allowed your opinions about how the Marxists of Blair's regime handed the keys to the country to the greedy rapacious Slavs who came here to make YOU unemployable and the fat 9-kid slobs watching Corrie in their country estates. I'm just allowed a right of reply, which I'm exercising. And if you think I should be more reasonable - well, who's censoring now?Covered End said:I'm quite certain it's the views of people like Leuth, as opposed to say SDAddick, that swung the results in favour of Brexit and Donald Trump.
I was 50/50 ish on Brexit, but it was definitely Leuth type comments that swung it for me. (I was against Trump).
We had 13 years (1997-2010) of being unable to voice legitimate concerns over LEVELS of immigration, without being shouted down and labelled as racist or bigots, that's a very long time. It wasn't just immigration, it was other matters like people on benefits living in 5 or more bedroom houses, whilst some working first time buyers, couldn't even afford a one bed flat. Labour disregarded their core voters and UKIP rose from nothing.
The tactic of allowing unfair policies and not being allowed to have an opinion has spectacularly backfired.
10 years ago this post would have been labelled racist, even 5 years ago.
Today many people now appreciate that it's better to talk, but not everyone.3 -
Well Trump did say that Latino men were rapists so maybe they liked his comments about grabbing pussy.LuckyReds said:
More Latino men voted for Trump than White men voted for Clinton? That's pretty interesting.SELR_addicks said:
(this is in no way serious and not meant to cause offence.)5 -
Address my points, not my rhetorical window-dressing2
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It's not my discussion. To be entirely honest, as an observer I just think it's tiresome to see you frothing at the mouth like a petulant child.Leuth said:Address my points, not my rhetorical window-dressing
I can't begin to imagine the tedium associated with being in a direct discussion with you. The worst thing is, I kind of like you: you stick up for what you believe in, and your heart is clearly in the right place. We don't agree on much, we're poles apart, but I respect that about you. I genuinely do. I can't respect the way you argue your points though.
I actually think the original poster was correct in saying you're the perfect example of how the discourse goes wrong, people can't be bothered to debate, anger builds and we get Trump.15 -
There are plenty of polemicists on the other side of the debate. I'd try a softly-softly approach but I fear it'd be swallowed by all the MIGRANT CHAOS headlines. (Oh yes, I'm sorry your taxi fares are down. Have you considered working for another firm, or reporting yours to a union? I think you should reconsider your stupid racist bile, if that's OK!) This is no longer the time to debate quietly. I'm still debating, you see, but with considerably more force. It tends to get attention, negative or otherwise.1
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And if you think Trump was brought about by the debating style of the left...pffft.3
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Leuth right now:
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Isn't it funny how the Tories/UKIP and the Republicans now represent the working class whereas Labour and the Democrats represent the wealthy middle classes?7
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I'm done for now. Ball's in the other court. Still haven't heard exactly what's wanted from our brave new right-wing society. Rather than suppressing opinion, I want to hear it, all of it, unedited. That's all.2
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Well that's the trick isn't it? They don't represent the working classes, they still represent the wealthy, they've just got far better at convincing the turkeys to vote for Christmas.cafcnick1992 said:Isn't it funny how the Tories/UKIP and the Republicans now represent the working class whereas Labour and the Democrats represent the wealthy middle classes?
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very perceptive ((:>)cafcnick1992 said:Isn't it funny how the Tories/UKIP and the Republicans now represent the working class whereas Labour and the Democrats represent the wealthy middle classes?
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I know, you can tell I have a Masters can't you.Lincsaddick said:
very perceptive ((:>)cafcnick1992 said:Isn't it funny how the Tories/UKIP and the Republicans now represent the working class whereas Labour and the Democrats represent the wealthy middle classes?
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Wouldn't personally say the 'Republicans' represented the working class, as the party itself was the most opposed to Trump.cafcnick1992 said:Isn't it funny how the Tories/UKIP and the Republicans now represent the working class whereas Labour and the Democrats represent the wealthy middle classes?
The party got hijacked by an alt-right movement a bit like the Labour party with its momentum wing of the party.2 -
Admit it Leuth, you love Owen Jones, don't you?Leuth said:And if you think Trump was brought about by the debating style of the left...pffft.
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Le pens odds for French elections from 5/1 this morning to 11/4 and 2/1 in places1
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Just one???cafcnick1992 said:
I know, you can tell I have a Masters can't you.Lincsaddick said:
very perceptive ((:>)cafcnick1992 said:Isn't it funny how the Tories/UKIP and the Republicans now represent the working class whereas Labour and the Democrats represent the wealthy middle classes?
Pah, amateurs!!!!!1 -
I bet that green jacket looks just right on you ((:>)cafcnick1992 said:
I know, you can tell I have a Masters can't you.Lincsaddick said:
very perceptive ((:>)cafcnick1992 said:Isn't it funny how the Tories/UKIP and the Republicans now represent the working class whereas Labour and the Democrats represent the wealthy middle classes?
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hahahahahahahahahaahaha .. f f si_b_b_o_r_g said:0 -
did you just trump?Leuth said:And if you think Trump was brought about by the debating style of the left...pffft.
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What the hell did I just watch?i_b_b_o_r_g said:1 -
I have read a couple of his interesting books .. many of his ideas and conclusions (to my way of thinking) are as much Ukip as they are extreme or even moderate labour .. he writes eloquently and compassionately about the 'working and so called under classes' ... now compare and contrast with Emily Thornbury, Jeremy's latest squeezecafcnick1992 said:
Admit it Leuth, you love Owen Jones, don't you?Leuth said:And if you think Trump was brought about by the debating style of the left...pffft.
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Political fact:
If the Establishment line is endorsed in an election then it's 'democracy.'
If not then it's 'populism' and the great unwashed are branded xenophobic bigots blah, blah, blah for having the sheer effrontery and temerity to question the Establishment line.
We've seen it with 'Brexit' and we'll see it with Trump too.
For the record I'm no particular fan of Trump (the available options were absolutely abysmal) but the Americans have made their choice and that should be respected.9 -
I think a number of people voted Brexit on grounds of national sovereignty and being able to take decision making away from Brussels and back to the UK. Job insecurity and the desire for long term stable employment and affordable accommodation will have played a part.
Make Britain British again if you will.
I think a number of people voted Trump on grounds of national pride, being able to take decision making away from a corrupt elite out of touch with voters. Job insecurity and the desire for long term stable employment will have played a part.
Make America great again.
Both are highly popular messages with issues that should be discussed and resolved.
I hope that uniting the presidency with the senate and the congress under republican leadership will allow the US to develop legislature that resolves these issues without creating others.
I hope that disengaging from the EU will allow Britain to focus on its domestic agenda and resolve over time these issues without creating others.
I support Leuth in much of what he says. Without immigration this country and most of its population would be significantly less well off.
The UK is relatively small, and there has been an underinvestment in infrastructure and housing to cope with the net immigration and net investment in the housing market. rate of immigration seems too high to many.
The US is relatively big, also an underinvestment in infrastructure and in creating jobs to replace manufacturing work that can be done cheaper by those globally currently prepared to accept a lower level of consumption/be poorer materially.
Nationalism and racism are not the same thing. It's nice to be a part of a group, but people should be able to move in and out of that group regardless of their religion, the colour of their skin, the colour of their eyes, gender or sexual orientation. It should be based on what you can contribute, people should want to join and those already in that group should prize their ownership and want to contribute as much as the new joiners.
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Many people like Leuth can't see the grey between mass immigration 300k+ and no immigration whatsoever.
Anyway Brexit and Trump's election are quite materially different so the comparison between them is tangible at best - Our removal from the EU is a good thing and Trump's election is...well not so clear.0 -
A quick google shows the chap deleted that tweet earlier on today...3
https://youtu.be/_C6y2giglwo
