We're actually at the stage where it is politically incorrect to criticise a belief system that justifies slaughter
Who thinks it is "politically incorrect" to criticise the mis-interpretation of Islam to justify slaughter ? Show me one person.
You've just done it yourself. You've assumed that this is some mis-interpretation. Don't get me wrong, millions of Muslims choose to ignore the violent parts of Islam, but it's there; and some sick individuals follow the religion literally.
The following are drawn from several religious books, which do you think are Islam/Muslim scriptures and which are from the bible?
1. Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the [holy man] who represents God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged.
2. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.
3. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am God.
4. Fight them until there is no more [disbelief or worshipping of other gods] and worship is for God alone.
5. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother-in-law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
6. Whoso fighteth in the way of God, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.
7. Make ready to slaughter [the infidel’s] sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.
8. [God’s messenger]... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The [holy man] replied, "They [women and children] are from them [unbelievers]."
9. Then I heard God say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.”
10. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
11. Keep [my holiday], for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die.
12. The punishment of those who wage war against God and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.
13. If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.
14. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land...
15. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
16. I shall terrorize the [heathens]. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them, because they oppose God and his apostle.
17. A [holy man’s] daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.
18. So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.
19. Everyone who would not seek God was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
20. And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.
21. But if [a girl wasn't a virgin on her wedding night] and evidence of the girl's virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her father’s house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against God’s people by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.
22. The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, "O [believer]! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
23. If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.
24. God’s Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but God."
25. Cursed be he who does God’s work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.
26. God said, "A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. [Prophet], you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But God desires killing them to manifest the religion."
27. Anyone who blasphemes God’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of [believers].
28. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) [your religion]; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept [the faith], demand from them [a tax]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek God's help and fight them.
29. Anyone else who goes too near the [Holy Place] will be executed.
30. Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us. Here's the key: Bold numbered quotes are from the Bible Other numbers from the Quran or Hadith. 1. Deuteronomy17:12 NLT; 2. Bukhari 11:626; 3. Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT; 4. Quran 2:193; 5. Matthew 10:34-35; 6. Quran 4:74; 7.Isaiah 14:21 NAB; 8. Bukhari 52:256; 9. Ezekiel 9:5 NLT; 10. Quran 8:12; 11. Exodus 31:12-15 NLT; 12. Quran5:33; 13. Leviticus 20:10 NLT; 14. Quran 8:67; 15. Numbers 31: 17-18 KJV; 16. Quran 8:12; 17. Leviticus 21:9 NAB; 18. Quran 9:5; 19. 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB; 20. Quran 17:16; 21. Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB; 22.Bukhari 52:177; 23. Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB; 24. Bukhari 8:387; 25. Jeremiah 48:10 NAB; 26. Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484; 27. Leviticus 24:16 NLT; 28. Muslim 19:4294; 29. Numbers 1: 51 NLT; 30. Tabari 9:69
All those digging out Islam, please confirm how Christianity differs in its holy book?
All the Muslims I know are as far as I know equally as against violence as your typical Ned Flanders type Christian.
Both the books teach good and evil, however they were written at a time where the only way to make things right was with 2 wrongs.
Is it really that hard for some not to just stop this whole debating/ point scoring obsession?
Thread should be used as a sign of respect for the dead and injured, if not simply closed. RIP to all those who've lost their lives today.
It appears so - still going on now. People cant seem to get it in to their heads around the fact that people have DIED today, parents, children, brothers,sisters etc, etc.
Sadly while we argue/debate - the death toll has now risen to 30 with in excess of 55 injured, 10 of whom have life threatening injuries. They are expecting more deaths and injuries as the day unfolds.
I have to disagree with your analysis of the IRA operatives in the 70s/80s - whilst I am sure there were an element of psychopaths - there were also people like Martin McGuinness, Gerry Adams and Gerry Kelly and others who were very, very smart operators - just look where they ended up at the end of the conflict - in power.
In addition I am always baffled by religion brought into the Northern Ireland conflict when it really had very little to do with it.
The conflict was about power and land - the fact that the Loyalists were Protestant and the Nationalists were Catholic was largely incidental to proceedings - the Nationalists wanted the 'British' Loyalists out of "their" country - that was their motivation way in front of religion.
This is why the conflict was eventually able to be settled because the Nationalists were able to be accommodated into a new power sharing arrangement that addressed at least some of their grievances.
That's very different to this bunch of Islamic nutters because nobody really knows what their end goal is - least of all themselves in all likelihood.
I have to disagree with your analysis of the IRA operatives in the 70s/80s - whilst I am sure there were an element of psychopaths - there were also people like Martin McGuinness, Gerry Adams and Gerry Kelly and others who were very, very smart operators - just look where they ended up at the end of the conflict - in power.
In addition I am always baffled by religion brought into the Northern Ireland conflict when it really had very little to do with it.
The conflict was about power and land - the fact that the Loyalists were Protestant and the Nationalists were Catholic was largely incidental to proceedings - the Nationalists wanted the 'British' Loyalists out of "their" country - that was their motivation way in front of religion.
This is why the conflict was eventually able to be settled because the Nationalists were able to be accommodated into a new power sharing arrangement that addressed at least some of their grievances.
That's very different to this bunch of Islamic nutters because nobody really knows what their end goal is - least of all themselves in all likelihood.
Thanks for saying what I was trying to say myself in my post further up in response to Prague.
Sadly while we argue/debate - the death toll has now risen to 30 with in excess of 55 injured, 10 of whom have life threatening injuries. They are expecting more deaths and injuries as the day unfolds.
Are those horrific numbers confirmed RM? Still says 13 on the Beeb.
Just taken this from the Live Updates on the BBC Website.
Small blasts near Maalbeek station 'part of controlled explosion of package'
French newspaper Le Soir reports that a number of small blasts heard on the Rue de la Loi, the location of Maelbeek metro station, were part of a controlled explosion of a suspect package.
So does this mean that there was no terrorist explosion at the Station and that it was all under control there or does it mean that another package was found at the station and that was destroyed in a controlled explosion?
Some poor guy being interviewed on BBC gave a very eye-opening account; the first explosion was by the American Airlines check-in, whilst a second detonation occurred shortly after by the Starbucks near the entrance of the terminal - essentially positioned so as to catch those who were fleeing. Whilst that isn't surprising, and has similarities with the intentions behind the stadium attack in Paris, it's still chilling.
It's horrifying - and almost unfathomable - to see the plans that man will go to in the hope of killing it's fellow human beings.
Some poor guy being interviewed on BBC gave a very interesting account; the first explosion was by the American Airlines check-in, whilst a second detonation occurred shortly after by the Starbucks near the entrance of the terminal - essentially positioned so as to catch those who were fleeing. Whilst that isn't surprising, and has similarities with the intentions behind the stadium attack in Paris, it's still chilling.
It's horrifying - and almost unfathomable - to see the plans that man will go to in the hope of killing it's fellow human beings.
Seems like a common tactic now doesnt it as is very similar to what was planned at the Stade de France.
In a way it sounds like the best course of action is not to flee for the exit in this sort of situation but to stay right where you are (Or get away from the crowds), although who can say they'd keep a clear enough head to make a sensible decision in that sort of scenario.
So, there you have it - in 25 years in the US, 94% of terrorist attacks are not related to Islam.
The stats (if accurate) don't lie but they can be unintentionally misleading. I certinally know which of the above groups i have been more concerned about in the last 15 years and going forward.
Just taken this from the Live Updates on the BBC Website.
Small blasts near Maalbeek station 'part of controlled explosion of package'
French newspaper Le Soir reports that a number of small blasts heard on the Rue de la Loi, the location of Maelbeek metro station, were part of a controlled explosion of a suspect package.
So does this mean that there was no terrorist explosion at the Station and that it was all under control there or does it mean that another package was found at the station and that was destroyed in a controlled explosion?
There was a blast at Maelbeek, there was also a suspect package which was dealt with as reported by Le Soir. I've been disappointed with BBC's coverage today.
Thank you to all those who have posted messages of concern. I've heard from one family member who is ok, still trying to contact others.
Sadly while we argue/debate - the death toll has now risen to 30 with in excess of 55 injured, 10 of whom have life threatening injuries. They are expecting more deaths and injuries as the day unfolds.
Are those horrific numbers confirmed RM? Still says 13 on the Beeb.
It appears so I picked them up from the Beeb TV program just on now, I hope that they are exaggerated but i fear the worst.
Just taken this from the Live Updates on the BBC Website.
Small blasts near Maalbeek station 'part of controlled explosion of package'
French newspaper Le Soir reports that a number of small blasts heard on the Rue de la Loi, the location of Maelbeek metro station, were part of a controlled explosion of a suspect package.
So does this mean that there was no terrorist explosion at the Station and that it was all under control there or does it mean that another package was found at the station and that was destroyed in a controlled explosion?
There was a blast at Maelbeek, there was also a suspect package which was dealt with as reported by Le Soir. I've been disappointed with BBC's coverage today.
Thank you to all those who have posted messages of concern. I've heard from one family member who is ok, still trying to contact others.
Glad the member of your family is okay... Sounds like the BBC have now answered my question.
The Belgian federal prosecutor Fredere Van Leeuw has confirmed that the three explosions this morning - two at Brussels Airport and one in the subway station Maelbeek - were terror attacks.
Just taken this from the Live Updates on the BBC Website.
Small blasts near Maalbeek station 'part of controlled explosion of package'
French newspaper Le Soir reports that a number of small blasts heard on the Rue de la Loi, the location of Maelbeek metro station, were part of a controlled explosion of a suspect package.
So does this mean that there was no terrorist explosion at the Station and that it was all under control there or does it mean that another package was found at the station and that was destroyed in a controlled explosion?
There was a blast at Maelbeek, there was also a suspect package which was dealt with as reported by Le Soir. I've been disappointed with BBC's coverage today.
Thank you to all those who have posted messages of concern. I've heard from one family member who is ok, still trying to contact others.
RT are reporting that a lot of communications lines are down, so the best way to stay in touch is via SMS or social media. There is also a UK phone number available. Good luck.
I have to disagree with your analysis of the IRA operatives in the 70s/80s - whilst I am sure there were an element of psychopaths - there were also people like Martin McGuinness, Gerry Adams and Gerry Kelly and others who were very, very smart operators - just look where they ended up at the end of the conflict - in power.
In addition I am always baffled by religion brought into the Northern Ireland conflict when it really had very little to do with it.
The conflict was about power and land - the fact that the Loyalists were Protestant and the Nationalists were Catholic was largely incidental to proceedings - the Nationalists wanted the 'British' Loyalists out of "their" country - that was their motivation way in front of religion.
This is why the conflict was eventually able to be settled because the Nationalists were able to be accommodated into a new power sharing arrangement that addressed at least some of their grievances.
That's very different to this bunch of Islamic nutters because nobody really knows what their end goal is - least of all themselves in all likelihood.
This guys were not whom I meant by "operatives".
But I take the rest of your points.
And I also accept that this probably isn't the time and place, I was only seeking to counter the inevitable wave of Islam-bashing on the thread.
i dont see myself and many others probably dont as singling out islam but in the last 10 years in this country we have had the london bombings and a soldier of the crown beheaded in a street 3 miles from our football club, and in BOTH occasions the religion was a factor in the crime, hating people that take an extreme view on an idealogy that kills innocent people doesnt make you racist or uneducated.
So, there you have it - in 25 years in the US, 94% of terrorist attacks are not related to Islam.
Extremely misleading, considering the significance and devastation of those attacks by other groups are absolutely dwarfed by 9/11 alone.
Agreed - id also guess (perhaps wrongly!?) that a lot of the atrocities committed by the non-Islamic groups (not inc the IRA) were committed by lone wolf nutters, as opposed to the literally hundreds of active (and rising) professional, funded and expert Islamic terrorist cells dotted all over the world.
Comments
Thread should be used as a sign of respect for the dead and injured, if not simply closed. RIP to all those who've lost their lives today.
1. Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the [holy man] who represents God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged.
2. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.
3. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am God.
4. Fight them until there is no more [disbelief or worshipping of other gods] and worship is for God alone.
5. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother-in-law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
6. Whoso fighteth in the way of God, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.
7. Make ready to slaughter [the infidel’s] sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.
8. [God’s messenger]... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The [holy man] replied, "They [women and children] are from them [unbelievers]."
9. Then I heard God say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.”
10. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
11. Keep [my holiday], for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die.
12. The punishment of those who wage war against God and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.
13. If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.
14. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land...
15. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
16. I shall terrorize the [heathens]. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them, because they oppose God and his apostle.
17. A [holy man’s] daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.
18. So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.
19. Everyone who would not seek God was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
20. And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.
21. But if [a girl wasn't a virgin on her wedding night] and evidence of the girl's virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her father’s house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against God’s people by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.
22. The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, "O [believer]! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
23. If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.
24. God’s Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but God."
25. Cursed be he who does God’s work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.
26. God said, "A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. [Prophet], you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But God desires killing them to manifest the religion."
27. Anyone who blasphemes God’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of [believers].
28. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) [your religion]; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept [the faith], demand from them [a tax]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek God's help and fight them.
29. Anyone else who goes too near the [Holy Place] will be executed.
30. Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us.
Here's the key:
Bold numbered quotes are from the Bible
Other numbers from the Quran or Hadith.
1. Deuteronomy17:12 NLT;
2. Bukhari 11:626;
3. Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT;
4. Quran 2:193;
5. Matthew 10:34-35;
6. Quran 4:74;
7.Isaiah 14:21 NAB;
8. Bukhari 52:256;
9. Ezekiel 9:5 NLT;
10. Quran 8:12;
11. Exodus 31:12-15 NLT;
12. Quran5:33;
13. Leviticus 20:10 NLT;
14. Quran 8:67;
15. Numbers 31: 17-18 KJV;
16. Quran 8:12;
17. Leviticus 21:9 NAB;
18. Quran 9:5;
19. 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB;
20. Quran 17:16;
21. Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB;
22.Bukhari 52:177;
23. Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB;
24. Bukhari 8:387;
25. Jeremiah 48:10 NAB;
26. Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484;
27. Leviticus 24:16 NLT;
28. Muslim 19:4294;
29. Numbers 1: 51 NLT;
30. Tabari 9:69
All those digging out Islam, please confirm how Christianity differs in its holy book?
All the Muslims I know are as far as I know equally as against violence as your typical Ned Flanders type Christian.
Both the books teach good and evil, however they were written at a time where the only way to make things right was with 2 wrongs.
Just looks a huge horrible mess which'll take an age to clear and re-open
Must have done it accidentally as a combination of my uncoordinated fingers and scrolling through on my phone. Will remove the flag
I have to disagree with your analysis of the IRA operatives in the 70s/80s - whilst I am sure there were an element of psychopaths - there were also people like Martin McGuinness, Gerry Adams and Gerry Kelly and others who were very, very smart operators - just look where they ended up at the end of the conflict - in power.
In addition I am always baffled by religion brought into the Northern Ireland conflict when it really had very little to do with it.
The conflict was about power and land - the fact that the Loyalists were Protestant and the Nationalists were Catholic was largely incidental to proceedings - the Nationalists wanted the 'British' Loyalists out of "their" country - that was their motivation way in front of religion.
This is why the conflict was eventually able to be settled because the Nationalists were able to be accommodated into a new power sharing arrangement that addressed at least some of their grievances.
That's very different to this bunch of Islamic nutters because nobody really knows what their end goal is - least of all themselves in all likelihood.
Latino 42%
Extreme Left-wing groups 24%
"Others" 16%
Jewish extremists 7%
Islamic extremists 6%
Communists 5%
So, there you have it - in 25 years in the US, 94% of terrorist attacks are not related to Islam.
Small blasts near Maalbeek station 'part of controlled explosion of package'
French newspaper Le Soir reports that a number of small blasts heard on the Rue de la Loi, the location of Maelbeek metro station, were part of a controlled explosion of a suspect package.
So does this mean that there was no terrorist explosion at the Station and that it was all under control there or does it mean that another package was found at the station and that was destroyed in a controlled explosion?
It's horrifying - and almost unfathomable - to see the plans that man will go to in the hope of killing it's fellow human beings.
In a way it sounds like the best course of action is not to flee for the exit in this sort of situation but to stay right where you are (Or get away from the crowds), although who can say they'd keep a clear enough head to make a sensible decision in that sort of scenario.
Thank you to all those who have posted messages of concern. I've heard from one family member who is ok, still trying to contact others.
The Belgian federal prosecutor Fredere Van Leeuw has confirmed that the three explosions this morning - two at Brussels Airport and one in the subway station Maelbeek - were terror attacks.
But I take the rest of your points.
And I also accept that this probably isn't the time and place, I was only seeking to counter the inevitable wave of Islam-bashing on the thread.