Terrible news, especially after the horrors of Paris.
Thousands of unidentified people getting boats across from Turkey to the EU, so no doubt there will be some baddies among them. Meanwhile, your kids will be getting frisked to get on the Eurostar for a trip to Eurodisney.
The daily life of ordinary Europeans will now change forever.
Almost all Muslims are peaceful and not terrorists, but almost all terrorists are Muslim.
I really don't understand how people can claim these attacks are "nothing to do with Islam", thus absolving this barbaric religion of any responsibility when these bombers are shouting "Allah Akbar" before murdering tens of people.
And people pray before going to war... You can't have it both ways
It could be argued that those who pray before going to war, are indeed going to war for the greater good, because they believe in the mission they are embarking upon is to help many by stopping the few.
There is a great difference between that and those who are mindlessly killing innocent civilians.
No there isn't. That's the horrible problem.
Give over. Those who fight for the safety of themselves and others are trained professionally, they are tested physically and mentally before being sent on missions which have been thought out and signed off by the people at the very top, they are working off the back of world class intelligence. These soldiers are not being sent out to war with the intent to kill innocents for the sake of it.
They are NOT to be associated with mindless scum who aimlessly commit terror attacks in busy cities whereby they are openly seeking innocent people to kill.
The fact you assume that is a 'horrible problem' is not only wrong but it is a fucking insult to all those brave men and women who put their lives on the line to protect me and my country.
So, there you have it - in 25 years in the US, 94% of terrorist attacks are not related to Islam.
Extremely misleading, considering the significance and devastation of those attacks by other groups are absolutely dwarfed by 9/11 alone.
The facts are misleading?
Chizz, you and I usually agree, but yes.
- 9/11 was by orders of magnitude more devastating than pretty much all of those. Next closest I can think of is the 1995 Oklahoma bombing by Timothy McVeigh, killing ~150
- The last 15 years, politically and religiously speaking, is miles different to a 1980-2005 sample
- It's a little short-sighted to say x amount of terror isn't related to Islam when 1) we're fighting wars and bombing their territory, thereby "taking the fight to them" so to speak [horrendous phrasing I know]; 2) 9/11; and 3) we're only looking at the States from 36 years ago to 11 years ago.
There are better ways to make the point about Islamic extremism, and this is definitely not one of them.
At the end of the day, hate begets more hate. On a day where, once again, the Western world is recoiling at more horror that's reached our own lands - we should take heed to that lesson.
We do not need to cause the Muslim community to isolate itself. This is arguably one of the factors that leads to youth looking towards groups such as ISIS as protection - strong defenders of their faith. This is precisely why it fits in with the extremist narrative of "Them vs Us".
Yes, as a community, there is an issue that does need confronting. Namely why are they more vulnerable to radicalisation? What issues are there that prevents them from identifying themselves as part of the society that they live in? If petty crime and lack of education/employment plays a part, then how can their prospects be improved?
I dare say there will have to be a stick as well as a carrot - there needs to be more cohesion and certain groups DO need to integrate culturally. The fact that areas which can only be likened to ghettos have been established suggests something has gone very wrong (Molenbeek, arguably places in our country have the potential too (Whitechapel and Luton?)) and those issues need to be addressed. These areas are where radicalisation are more likely to occur, and these areas just happen to be the most isolated.
You can't fight hatred and save lives via more hatred - that's not definitely a point to posters on here, but is worth remembering when the inevitable statements from the EDL and Britain First come forward.
Rather than focusing on that, the focus needs to be on unity and coming together as one. Today innocent people have lost their lives, families have lost loved ones - let's not fill the situation with even more hatred. It's tragic, it's awful and it's unacceptable - and that should be our focus; taking steps to prevent that happening yet again.
Remember the main concern here is the rise of right wing movements who are against islam extremism, not islam itself, or better still blame trump and Farage, just make sure its anyone but muslims because they might get upset by nasty comments.
Just wow liberals, wow. RIP those involved and their families.
Well the CL bingo card is filled up. Shame on some of you. It seems as if you just can't wait to get online and post some hate filled deeply offensive post.
RIP to those that have lost their lives in this tragedy and my thoughts to all those injured.
Give over. Those who fight for the safety of themselves and others are trained professionally, they are tested physically and mentally before being sent on missions which have been thought out and signed off by the people at the very top, they are working off the back of world class intelligence. These soldiers are not being sent out to war with the intent to kill innocents for the sake of it.
They are NOT to be associated with mindless scum who aimlessly commit terror attacks in busy cities whereby they are openly seeking innocent people to kill.
The fact you assume that is a 'horrible problem' is not only wrong but it is a fucking insult to all those brave men and women who put their lives on the line to protect me and my country.
Legally speaking, there often isn't a distinction. Regardless of how well trained you are or how good (or bad) you intelligence is, or what you outfit looks like, if you kill children, or any civilians, if you kill innocent people you can be held accountable.
This is not to besmirch men and women in uniform across the Western world, who I work for/with. But they are trained, and they know that they are held to a standard that if they carry out something illegal by domestic or international law, they can be held accountable.
Remember the main concern here is the rise of right wing movements who are against islam extremism, not islam itself, or better still blame trump and Farage, just make sure its anyone but muslims because they might get upset by nasty comments.
Just wow liberals, wow. RIP those involved and their families.
George Bush got X (let's go with 10k) US Service Men and Women killed. What's Islamic terrorisms' count?
Remember the main concern here is the rise of right wing movements who are against islam extremism, not islam itself
Well that's just not true is it?
Whilst her timing was indeed undeniably crass Allison Pearson seems to have received rather more left leaning vitriol on Twitter and other social media from what I have read than the perpetrators of this atrocity.
Remember the main concern here is the rise of right wing movements who are against islam extremism, not islam itself, or better still blame trump and Farage, just make sure its anyone but muslims because they might get upset by nasty comments.
Just wow liberals, wow. RIP those involved and their families.
George Bush got X (let's go with 10k) US Service Men and Women killed. What's Islamic terrorisms' count?
Righteo I'll be sure to be vigilant when in London for George bush thanks for that.
Remember the main concern here is the rise of right wing movements who are against islam extremism, not islam itself, or better still blame trump and Farage, just make sure its anyone but muslims because they might get upset by nasty comments.
Just wow liberals, wow. RIP those involved and their families.
Surely the main concern here is to sympathise with those who have lost loved ones, or have been injured horribly today.
But I agree with LuckyReds post, above, that we should be trying to avoid reacting to a hate crime with hate, because it will be precisely what those behind today's attacks will want. And as for blaming anyone but Muslims, it is to the British people's great credit that, when faced with Irish terrorism, they did not slip into blaming the Irish as a whole.
Individual Muslims are, like everyone else, individuals, motivated by their own hopes and desires. The overwhelming majority are interested in the same things as us, including football. To tar them all with the same brush is deeply unfair and, thus, un-British....
Remember the main concern here is the rise of right wing movements who are against islam extremism, not islam itself, or better still blame trump and Farage, just make sure its anyone but muslims because they might get upset by nasty comments.
Just wow liberals, wow. RIP those involved and their families.
Surely the main concern here is to sympathise with those who have lost loved ones, or have been injured horribly today.
But I agree with LuckyReds post, above, that we should be trying to avoid reacting to a hate crime with hate, because it will be precisely what those behind today's attacks will want. And as for blaming anyone but Muslims, it is to the British people's great credit that, when faced with Irish terrorism, they did not slip into blaming the Irish as a whole.
Individual Muslims are, like everyone else, individuals, motivated by their own hopes and desires. The overwhelming majority are interested in the same things as us, including football. To tar them all with the same brush is deeply unfair and, thus, un-British....
Remember the main concern here is the rise of right wing movements who are against islam extremism, not islam itself, or better still blame trump and Farage, just make sure its anyone but muslims because they might get upset by nasty comments.
Just wow liberals, wow. RIP those involved and their families.
Surely the main concern here is to sympathise with those who have lost loved ones, or have been injured horribly today.
But I agree with LuckyReds post, above, that we should be trying to avoid reacting to a hate crime with hate, because it will be precisely what those behind today's attacks will want. And as for blaming anyone but Muslims, it is to the British people's great credit that, when faced with Irish terrorism, they did not slip into blaming the Irish as a whole.
Individual Muslims are, like everyone else, individuals, motivated by their own hopes and desires. The overwhelming majority are interested in the same things as us, including football. To tar them all with the same brush is deeply unfair and, thus, un-British....
Again, I was being sarcastic.
Fair enough, but, for thickos like me, it's all very confusing.
Remember the main concern here is the rise of right wing movements who are against islam extremism, not islam itself, or better still blame trump and Farage, just make sure its anyone but muslims because they might get upset by nasty comments.
Just wow liberals, wow. RIP those involved and their families.
George Bush got X (let's go with 10k) US Service Men and Women killed. What's Islamic terrorisms' count?
Righteo I'll be sure to be vigilant when in London for George bush thanks for that.
A few years too late, though if you'd been as vigilant back in 2002-3 you would have saved a lot of British lives as well.
That said, really any time the US sends an important person to the UK it's probably because we want to go to war in some way. American leaders are statistically far more dangerous to you than every muslim you pass on the street combined.
Remember the main concern here is the rise of right wing movements who are against islam extremism, not islam itself, or better still blame trump and Farage, just make sure its anyone but muslims because they might get upset by nasty comments.
Just wow liberals, wow. RIP those involved and their families.
I don't think anyone on here has mentioned Trump or Farage other than you.
As for "not offending Muslims" - well like I said, it's important to appreciate that these cunt perpetrators do not represent that religion.
As an Atheist i can't comprehend any of this because i Believe that the Bible/Koran ETC were written by men in bygone days to keep the uneducated masses in order and subjugate all females.
Love and peace. RIP to all the innocent Folk who died today.
These attacks of the past couple of years are awful, far worse than anything the IRA or various other European organised terror groups ever did, even though the loss of one life is as bad as the loss of a hundred in its own way, whether here, there, Turkey or elsewhere. Some of this might sound naive, especially my final point, but one thing it's not doing is offering any sympathy to those that carried out this attack or any in Ireland. I just don't think Northern Ireland and any of its paramilitaries should be compared to this because it's very different. One thing they all have in common though is that they're as much to do with the legacy of colonialism as with religion, whether in Ireland or France or Belgium. Also, these terrorists in Brussels are latching onto a warped version of Islam in a way that some extremists on the loyalist side in Northern Ireland latched onto anti-Catholicism, or the IRA hijacked the idea of a united Ireland as theirs alone. The difference in Ireland and parts of mainland Europe though, is that the Irish Catholics felt discriminated against in their own country after partition. Some of those Irish Catholics, and a very small minority, engaged in violence as did the loyalist side but it was mostly confined to Northern Ireland, or related to demands for concessions in Northern Ireland. Any Irish people who came to live in England to settle down never engaged in terrorism against the state to the best of my knowledge. Their children certainly didn't. Loads of their kids and grandkids have grown up to play a major part in English society from Tony Blair to the likes of Paul Gascoigne or Wayne Rooney. It goes the other way too, in everything from literature to football. Yet we have seen in France, England, and Belgium attacks by young men and women on the very countries where they were born and grew up. The guys who murdered Lee Rigby talked about attacks on 'our countries' as if Woolwich was located somewhere in the Middle East. These people also do things far worse than any of the various characters involved in the Irish conflict - people with tabloid nicknames like Paddy One Shot, Mad Dog (there were several of them) King Rat and various others. They might have been brutal nasty b*****s but they wouldn't have slaughtered hundreds in one indiscriminate attack if they got away with it. Even the IRA gave warnings before most of their bombs, and always said they were willing to talk even as they were bombing. And again that's not excusing them in any way. Bombs in fish shops, and at cenotaphs, and massacres of workmen in vans were never the way to put forward an argument no matter how wronged you once felt. Which brings me to the final point, the possibly naive bit. The way the conflict in Northern Ireland was resolved was to talk to people within the communities where the terrorists were coming from, and find out what they want, why they're doing this and how it can be stopped. The more extreme ones probably have insane, seventh century demands but at least we'll know what they want and by talking to the communities we learn what it takes to stop others doing these insane things. Every time these things happen I feel sick. And I fear it's going to hit us in London some day and the people who might do it are already here.
It is very sad when human beings feel a way to make a point is by murdering innocent human beings. When this is done for religious principles it makes it all the more unfathomable as relgion should be about loving and respecting your fellow man. These people should not be called muslims. They may follow a literal interpretation of islamic teachings, but do not represent muslims. We should never forget that fact. When we start to tar a whole religion with the same brush, we are more likely to create the conditions which create these mad people. They are a disgrace to the human race, and we should join with all muslims in condemning them. Sadiq Khan wrote a good piece in the Standard this week about the extremes he would go to to fight extremism. All muslims, Christians and everybody else should unite against these bastards. Unity is the way to defeat them. R.I.P. the innocents in Belgium today.
It is very sad when human beings feel a way to make a point is by murdering innocent human beings. When this is done for religious principles it makes it all the more unfathomable as relgion should be about loving and respecting your fellow man. These people should not be called muslims. They may follow a literal interpretation of islamic teachings, but do not represent muslims. We should never forget that fact. When we start to tar a whole religion with the same brush, we are more likely to create the conditions which create these mad people. They are a disgrace to the human race, and we should join with all muslims in condemning them. Sadiq Khan wrote a good piece in the Standard this week about the extremes he would go to to fight extremism. All muslims, Christians and everybody else should unite against these bastards. Unity is the way to defeat them. R.I.P. the innocents in Belgium today.
Whilst I think that is a decent post which I agree with with lets not forget that Sadiq Khan has previously been accused of attending extremist 'platforms' within the UK and more recently Khan has employed a speechwriter who used social media to display sexist and homophobic tweets as well as claiming the death of Lee Rigby was 'fake' so maybe we should take anything Khan has to say with a pinch of salt.
How in the name of Security can Salah Abdeslam the most wanted man in the western world be living in Molonbeek, his home town, and be captured 16 Weeks after the Paris attacks, Just 200 Meters from his home ? He had grown a beard and was reported to have daily walks around the neighbourhood. No stop and search ?
Is the fear of upsetting the local muslim community taking precedence over national security ?
How in the name of Security can Salah Abdeslam the most wanted man in the western world be living in Molonbeek, his home town, and be captured 16 Weeks after the Paris attacks, Just 200 Meters from his home ? He had grown a beard and was reported to have daily walks around the neighbourhood. No stop and search ?
Is the fear of upsetting the local muslim community taking precedence over nation security ?
- Collation of evidence - Ensuring he's definitely the right person - Police bureaucracy (most likely) - Ensuring they're able to charge him with the full whack of everything, presumably - Secret service detail on him? I.e. possibly knowing his whereabouts and therefore monitoring his communications or whatever (that might be illegal but in this instance I'm not sure if the authorities would care overmuch) - Proper collaboration with all parties - French police, EU, Belgian police, intelligence, governments etc etc
I've probably missed a few things. While 16 weeks is a fair amount of time, I don't think it's overly unreasonable.
How in the name of Security can Salah Abdeslam the most wanted man in the western world be living in Molonbeek, his home town, and be captured 16 Weeks after the Paris attacks, Just 200 Meters from his home ? He had grown a beard and was reported to have daily walks around the neighbourhood. No stop and search ?
Is the fear of upsetting the local muslim community taking precedence over national security ?
Comments
Thousands of unidentified people getting boats across from Turkey to the EU, so no doubt there will be some baddies among them. Meanwhile, your kids will be getting frisked to get on the Eurostar for a trip to Eurodisney.
The daily life of ordinary Europeans will now change forever.
Almost all Muslims are peaceful and not terrorists, but almost all terrorists are Muslim.
Sad day for Europe.
Give over.
Those who fight for the safety of themselves and others are trained professionally, they are tested physically and mentally before being sent on missions which have been thought out and signed off by the people at the very top, they are working off the back of world class intelligence. These soldiers are not being sent out to war with the intent to kill innocents for the sake of it.
They are NOT to be associated with mindless scum who aimlessly commit terror attacks in busy cities whereby they are openly seeking innocent people to kill.
The fact you assume that is a 'horrible problem' is not only wrong but it is a fucking insult to all those brave men and women who put their lives on the line to protect me and my country.
- 9/11 was by orders of magnitude more devastating than pretty much all of those. Next closest I can think of is the 1995 Oklahoma bombing by Timothy McVeigh, killing ~150
- The last 15 years, politically and religiously speaking, is miles different to a 1980-2005 sample
- It's a little short-sighted to say x amount of terror isn't related to Islam when 1) we're fighting wars and bombing their territory, thereby "taking the fight to them" so to speak [horrendous phrasing I know]; 2) 9/11; and 3) we're only looking at the States from 36 years ago to 11 years ago.
There are better ways to make the point about Islamic extremism, and this is definitely not one of them.
We do not need to cause the Muslim community to isolate itself. This is arguably one of the factors that leads to youth looking towards groups such as ISIS as protection - strong defenders of their faith. This is precisely why it fits in with the extremist narrative of "Them vs Us".
Yes, as a community, there is an issue that does need confronting. Namely why are they more vulnerable to radicalisation? What issues are there that prevents them from identifying themselves as part of the society that they live in? If petty crime and lack of education/employment plays a part, then how can their prospects be improved?
I dare say there will have to be a stick as well as a carrot - there needs to be more cohesion and certain groups DO need to integrate culturally. The fact that areas which can only be likened to ghettos have been established suggests something has gone very wrong (Molenbeek, arguably places in our country have the potential too (Whitechapel and Luton?)) and those issues need to be addressed. These areas are where radicalisation are more likely to occur, and these areas just happen to be the most isolated.
You can't fight hatred and save lives via more hatred - that's not definitely a point to posters on here, but is worth remembering when the inevitable statements from the EDL and Britain First come forward.
Rather than focusing on that, the focus needs to be on unity and coming together as one. Today innocent people have lost their lives, families have lost loved ones - let's not fill the situation with even more hatred. It's tragic, it's awful and it's unacceptable - and that should be our focus; taking steps to prevent that happening yet again.
Just wow liberals, wow. RIP those involved and their families.
So not exactly refugees.
This is not to besmirch men and women in uniform across the Western world, who I work for/with. But they are trained, and they know that they are held to a standard that if they carry out something illegal by domestic or international law, they can be held accountable.
My thoughts go out to all those affected.
But I agree with LuckyReds post, above, that we should be trying to avoid reacting to a hate crime with hate, because it will be precisely what those behind today's attacks will want. And as for blaming anyone but Muslims, it is to the British people's great credit that, when faced with Irish terrorism, they did not slip into blaming the Irish as a whole.
Individual Muslims are, like everyone else, individuals, motivated by their own hopes and desires. The overwhelming majority are interested in the same things as us, including football. To tar them all with the same brush is deeply unfair and, thus, un-British....
That said, really any time the US sends an important person to the UK it's probably because we want to go to war in some way. American leaders are statistically far more dangerous to you than every muslim you pass on the street combined.
As for "not offending Muslims" - well like I said, it's important to appreciate that these cunt perpetrators do not represent that religion.
that the Bible/Koran ETC were written by men in bygone days to keep the uneducated masses in order and subjugate all females.
Love and peace.
RIP to all the innocent Folk who died today.
Some of this might sound naive, especially my final point, but one thing it's not doing is offering any sympathy to those that carried out this attack or any in Ireland. I just don't think Northern Ireland and any of its paramilitaries should be compared to this because it's very different.
One thing they all have in common though is that they're as much to do with the legacy of colonialism as with religion, whether in Ireland or France or Belgium. Also, these terrorists in Brussels are latching onto a warped version of Islam in a way that some extremists on the loyalist side in Northern Ireland latched onto anti-Catholicism, or the IRA hijacked the idea of a united Ireland as theirs alone.
The difference in Ireland and parts of mainland Europe though, is that the Irish Catholics felt discriminated against in their own country after partition. Some of those Irish Catholics, and a very small minority, engaged in violence as did the loyalist side but it was mostly confined to Northern Ireland, or related to demands for concessions in Northern Ireland.
Any Irish people who came to live in England to settle down never engaged in terrorism against the state to the best of my knowledge. Their children certainly didn't. Loads of their kids and grandkids have grown up to play a major part in English society from Tony Blair to the likes of Paul Gascoigne or Wayne Rooney. It goes the other way too, in everything from literature to football.
Yet we have seen in France, England, and Belgium attacks by young men and women on the very countries where they were born and grew up. The guys who murdered Lee Rigby talked about attacks on 'our countries' as if Woolwich was located somewhere in the Middle East. These people also do things far worse than any of the various characters involved in the Irish conflict - people with tabloid nicknames like Paddy One Shot, Mad Dog (there were several of them) King Rat and various others. They might have been brutal nasty b*****s but they wouldn't have slaughtered hundreds in one indiscriminate attack if they got away with it. Even the IRA gave warnings before most of their bombs, and always said they were willing to talk even as they were bombing. And again that's not excusing them in any way. Bombs in fish shops, and at cenotaphs, and massacres of workmen in vans were never the way to put forward an argument no matter how wronged you once felt.
Which brings me to the final point, the possibly naive bit. The way the conflict in Northern Ireland was resolved was to talk to people within the communities where the terrorists were coming from, and find out what they want, why they're doing this and how it can be stopped. The more extreme ones probably have insane, seventh century demands but at least we'll know what they want and by talking to the communities we learn what it takes to stop others doing these insane things.
Every time these things happen I feel sick. And I fear it's going to hit us in London some day and the people who might do it are already here.
How in the name of Security can Salah Abdeslam the most wanted man in the western world be living in Molonbeek, his home town,
and be captured 16 Weeks after the Paris attacks, Just 200 Meters from his home ?
He had grown a beard and was reported to have daily walks around the neighbourhood.
No stop and search ?
Is the fear of upsetting the local muslim community taking precedence
over national security ?
- Ensuring he's definitely the right person
- Police bureaucracy (most likely)
- Ensuring they're able to charge him with the full whack of everything, presumably
- Secret service detail on him? I.e. possibly knowing his whereabouts and therefore monitoring his communications or whatever (that might be illegal but in this instance I'm not sure if the authorities would care overmuch)
- Proper collaboration with all parties - French police, EU, Belgian police, intelligence, governments etc etc
I've probably missed a few things. While 16 weeks is a fair amount of time, I don't think it's overly unreasonable.