The content and timing of this joint statement - on the day a Charlton fan appeared in court accused of attempting to punch Crystal Palace's eagle - is a disgraceful attempt to defile the excellent reputation of Charlton supporters and to denigrate the dignified and reasonable manner in which they have protested against this lamentable regime. It reflects Katrien's need to try and mask her failings by (as Airman aptly put it) 'playing the victim', as well as the Roland's irrational and risible outburst a couple of weeks ago on the club website.
Maybe there is a tacit recognition here that the position is irretrievable and that it is now about trying to limit reputational damage. Let us hope so, as the smell of burning bridges is overpowering - they must surely realise that (1) the position with the existing supporter base is irretrievable and (2) that there is zero prospect of replacing them. Attempts at 'divide and rule' at this late stage are not going to cut it.
Involving 'New Scotland Yard' in this nonsense is both ridiculous and embarrassing in equal measure - particularly in a climate where there are many more serious matters for the police to contend with. Maybe Roland has been watching too many back episodes of 'Dixon Of Dock Green' or 'Z Cars'.
As to the beach ball projectiles, it brings to mind the old incantation of Millwall supporters as they bricked the plate glass windows of Mickey Purser's car showrooms on the Old Kent Road after yet another disappointing home defeat - 'de minimis non curat lex': 'the law does not concern itself with trifles'.
The enemy are most certainly on the run and (leaving relegation aside) are about to face their next big pressure point - the 'early bird' season ticket renewal deadline.
Surely a FOI would tell us if the MPS had a meeting with the club at NSY.
I'm thinking about it. Wording is all important with FOI, especially with plod. If you check my FOIs on WDTK, for example around Millwall game policing, one time they played ball, one time they didn't. If anybody wants to give this wording some thought, I'll be happy to write the FOI taking everyone's suggestions into account.
Where "NLA of New Scotland Yard" when you need him.
I'd go for a request asking for:
1. All records held relating to any meetings between the Met Police and representatives of Charlton Athletic Football Club in March 2016 (or during the 2015-2016 season).
2. Details of all football clubs with whom the Met Police have issued joint statements regarding fan behaviour in each of the last ten football seasons (to date), including copies of the statement sissued.
Good stuff. I think I might go with that, unless anyone has any further thoughts.
I refer you to the joint statement issued today, 29th March, between the MPS and Charlton Athletic Football Club as published on their official website, a statement which I assume you are aware of.
It deals with recent events at home games where fans are protesting to get rid of the current owner. Part of this statement deals with items being thrown onto the pitch. None of us wants to see items, such as bottles, thrown onto the pitch which could cause damage or injury to anyone. However, are the MPS and CAFC really trying to inform us that this includes beach balls? All these do is cause embarrassment to the Club and in turn the MPS who are being used by CAFC to help discredit the fans who are protesting against the Club. What next? Are balloons to be deemed dangerous? How about confetti?
Can you please confirm as to whether or not beach balls are dangerous objects and that the throwing of such in a football stadium is an arrest-able offence or not. Furthermore can you confirm that this statement was issued with the agreement of the MPS and how many times such statements have been issued in the last ten years in conjunction with other Clubs?
CAFC are trying to stop peaceful protests and discredit the fans that are protesting and to do so have involved the MPS where no involvement is justified.
This must be the beginning of the charm offensive that their responses to fans' emails speak of. They know they have a lot to do to win back the trust of the fans and they are starting the process by pointlessly threatening then with a 'joint' police statement.
This is at a football ground not the real World--- easy nickings for Plod--- lots of banning orders for their statistics pre the Euros --- passports surrendered---lovely jubberly ---- "all villains your Honour "
Beach balls a threat ? Making the Met look like fools you say ? Wow The Met ---- fools ??? Woulda thought that ?
PS maybe we could have a list drawn up of songs that are if the right "type" to sing at the protest ? Reviews by a committee and then sent to Corbyn and Abbot for final approval ?
Surely a FOI would tell us if the MPS had a meeting with the club at NSY.
I'm thinking about it. Wording is all important with FOI, especially with plod. If you check my FOIs on WDTK, for example around Millwall game policing, one time they played ball, one time they didn't. If anybody wants to give this wording some thought, I'll be happy to write the FOI taking everyone's suggestions into account.
Where "NLA of New Scotland Yard" when you need him.
I'd go for a request asking for:
1. All records held relating to any meetings between the Met Police and representatives of Charlton Athletic Football Club in March 2016 (or during the 2015-2016 season).
2. Details of all football clubs with whom the Met Police have issued joint statements regarding fan behaviour in each of the last ten football seasons (to date), including copies of the statement sissued.
Good stuff. I think I might go with that, unless anyone has any further thoughts.
I think I can recite chunks of that blind, (I run the Czech version of the site), but unfortunately I'm also familiar with the various techniques authorities use to get out of complying. In the police' case it is usually some claim that they would be disclosing operational information (which thus assists criminals) so I am thinking of adding to @NornIrishAddick 's excellent text, a rider that I do not seek such information and am happy for it to be redacted (provided they then don't prevaricate on the entire request).
I like @WSS suggestion on page 1 (my quote button is fecked) that all who threw a beachball turn themselves in at the same time.
If anyone was arrested for petty acts like this the police would want to give a caution to cut down on paperwork and time and get you out of the station. BUT much better to refuse a caution and asked to be charged and taken to court so this load of bollox can be exposed for what it is.
I refer you to the joint statement issued today, 29th March, between the MPS and Charlton Athletic Football Club as published on their official website, a statement which I assume you are aware of.
It deals with recent events at home games where fans are protesting to get rid of the current owner. Part of this statement deals with items being thrown onto the pitch. None of us wants to see items, such as bottles, thrown onto the pitch which could cause damage or injury to anyone. However, are the MPS and CAFC really trying to inform us that this includes beach balls? All these do is cause embarrassment to the Club and in turn the MPS who are being used by CAFC to help discredit the fans who are protesting against the Club. What next? Are balloons to be deemed dangerous? How about confetti?
Can you please confirm as to whether or not beach balls are dangerous objects and that the throwing of such in a football stadium is an arrest-able offence or not. Furthermore can you confirm that this statement was issued with the agreement of the MPS and how many times such statements have been issued in the last ten years in conjunction with other Clubs?
CAFC are trying to stop peaceful protests and discredit the fans that are protesting and to do so have involved the MPS where no involvement is justified.
I look forward to receiving your response,
Kind regards,
Personally I would not have faith of that e mail finding its correct department and may just sit there unanswered.
The borough commander for Greenwich borough is Helen Millichap. Ring 101 raising the above issue and ask for the borough commander to contact you re this matter. Ask for a reference number at the end of the call.
If you don't get a reply within 48 hours, then ring 101 again with your original phone reference number and raise the issue as a complaint against police.
Rather than individuals acting in a "scatter gun" way I suggest CARD contact "New Scotland Yard" to get further details of the meeting. As the police constantly remind us of their scarce resources I find it strange that Scotland Yard is where this was dealt with. I would suggest contact with the local police Superintendent was more likely. It would be useful to undo the statement, get what I suggest is a different story and publish that. Notwithstanding the above for the current regime to use scare/ bulling tactics is nothing short of a disgrace and shows how out of their depth they are. They have lost the argument and are now thrashing about, but it's us and the club that are suffering.
It makes a link, where there isn't one, between incidents at some place over in Surrey several months ago and all the recent organised protests at The Valley.
I may be wrong, but I can't remember any stories like this on the BBC site about fans of other clubs being warned for behaviour and Charlton aren't exactly renowned for their brushes with the law.
The Club have attempted to tar the vast majority of fans of OUR Club by including a totally unrelated incident.
It tries to make the intelligent, well thought out and played out protests against ineptitude, which have been well supported in the media, fight for media space alongside a darker incident which shouldn't have happened.
Nasty, underhand and pretty much to be expected from the shambles running Charlton.
@PragueAddick perhaps an FOI question should include how many Football Clubs have NSY issued joint statements with "warning fans" about their behaviour.
BBC haven't given us any good press throughout this whole ordeal. I think someone there has it in for us.
That is not true.
BBC London sport, led by Phil Parry, have given us outstanding and at times outspoken support. If you are in Leeds you may not be aware of that. What other negative BBC output has there been?
Whatever support BBC Radio London has given us has been undermined by the BBC Sport website running one-sided pieces on club statements without contacting CARD or CAST for a response.
Are CAST or CARD going to make a response to this statement? While we all know it's crazy I fear that by name dropping Scotland Yard and implying this is a police statement, it will do a lot to tarnish the protests reputation across the wider audience unchallenged.
(Also, while we're at it, can someone find out if a live rat counts as a missile or a pitch invader as I have 2,000 being delivered on Saturday morning and today's the last day I can cancel.)
Met police press office have confirmed its a joint statmement when I emailed with a couple of questions.
Edit - not that I had any reason to think it wasn't, but just clarifying for a couple of people who have questioned whether it was. I've asked a couple of questions which they've forwarded to a senior officer in Greenwich - will let you know if I hear anything back via the podcast and on here.
I've posted this on the other thread but thought I'd put it here too.
Content of an email I have just sent to the club.
Good Morning
Apologies for bothering you with this matter but my earlier attempt to get an answer from the info@ email address failed to elicit a response of any kind.
I'm not really surprised by this as, having read the recent joint Club/Police statement, I can tell that the Club has been busy attempting to get Beachballs reclassified as Weapons of Mass Destruction: classy bit of PR that!
Now, this, in itself, raises another matter. Having read the Football (Offences) Act 1991, it is clear that it could be an offence for a supporter to return the football being used in the game onto the field of play. A defence is for the offender to prove that he has lawful authority to do this. I wonder, therefore, whether the Club would be prepared to provide written permission to all its supporters to return said ball? Or would it be safer to just leave it where it landed?
Anyway, below, for your consideration is my request for information concerning use of the West Stand car park. I should be extremely grateful if you could give me a definitive response together with reasons as to why my original email was ignored.
Read Statement: The Peril That Faces Us All - beach balls. No man, woman or child is safe. Be Alert. Britain needs Lerts. Martial Law now exists on beaches across the UK, whilst police desperately scramble to catch the evil perpetrators who threaten our liberty with their volley ball games and their crazed attempts to play football with these air filled bombs on windy beaches. Stay safe and pray that the evil in our midst is soon extinguished.
I threw a beachball I threw a beachball I threw a beachball and so did my mate Roland moaned and he groaned as he hid behind New Scotland Yard I threw a beachball and so did my mate
Just when I thought my opinion of the deluded half wits running MY club couldn't sink any lower, they come up with something else. Well done Tony Ball Bag and Pinocchio.
It makes a link, where there isn't one, between incidents at some place over in Surrey several months ago and all the recent organised protests at The Valley.
I may be wrong, but I can't remember any stories like this on the BBC site about fans of other clubs being warned for behaviour and Charlton aren't exactly renowned for their brushes with the law.
The Club have attempted to tar the vast majority of fans of OUR Club by including a totally unrelated incident.
It tries to make the intelligent, well thought out and played out protests against ineptitude, which have been well supported in the media, fight for media space alongside a darker incident which shouldn't have happened.
Nasty, underhand and pretty much to be expected from the shambles running Charlton.
@PragueAddick perhaps an FOI question should include how many Football Clubs have NSY issued joint statements with "warning fans" about their behaviour.
BBC haven't given us any good press throughout this whole ordeal. I think someone there has it in for us.
That is not true.
BBC London sport, led by Phil Parry, have given us outstanding and at times outspoken support. If you are in Leeds you may not be aware of that. What other negative BBC output has there been?
Whatever support BBC Radio London has given us has been undermined by the BBC Sport website running one-sided pieces on club statements without contacting CARD or CAST for a response.
Well "undermined" as a valid description depends on which you think has the more relevant exposure and reach. Personally I think there is a bit too much readiness to leap on "the BBC" here. How many such pieces have there been and how many people read them?; compared with those who heard the extensive London Sport coverage, where they have carried interviews with @Airman Brown (more than once), Steve Clarke, me, and (Ithink) @rikofold in the last three months.
Everyone is getting terribly exercised about that silly cow Jo Tongue, but she isn't even a BBC employee.
Met police press office have confirmed its a joint statmement when I emailed with a couple of questions.
Edit - not that I had any reason to think it wasn't, but just clarifying for a couple of people who have questioned whether it was. I've asked a couple of questions which they've forwarded to a senior officer in Greenwich - will let you know if I hear anything back via the podcast and on here.
I didn't doubt that it was a joint statement but I would be surprised if the Met was the driving force. You would have thought that they had more important things to be worrying about than a couple of arrests for petty criminal offences occurring within a crowd of thousands. The Palace stuff is a complete red herring, thrown in there to discredit the fans.
You can't tell me that the police haven't got time to investigate your house being burgled but one guy threw a bottle and another ran on a pitch in separate incidents across several weeks - quick, get a press release out there and warn the people to stop this madness!
This is our club, looking to besmirch the name of us, its fans, again. The people running our club are so amateurish that they are trying desperately to hold onto their positions and salaries as they know that no proper business would be interested in employing them.
Keep the protests up, keep them legal, keep these idiots scrabbling around and looking increasingly stupid and petty.
Jesus H Christ that means they have wasted their time on this meeting.
It's probably a matter of priorities in the current climate and policing football matches because the owners are worried fans might throw beach balls on to the pitch is possibly near the bottom of their list of concerns, hence the don't do it lads type reminder to placate the club because all their bobbies will be more gainfully employed elsewhere watching out for terrorists and charlton will have to get more stewards in - classic Dixon of Dock Green instruction textbook I suspect, a quiet word in advance goes a long way
If I was to write a Headline, *A Combined statement with "Scotland Yard" * sounds a lot more sensational than a *A brief chat with the Football liaison officer at Greenwich nick over coffee and a Hobnob* as has been said, they are not really sure what to do and they seek advice from all quarters and listen to none of because it doesn't suit their agenda. Well Roland and Katrien you have turned a Michelin *** restaurant into a Greasy spoon with a hygiene rating of 1 all in the space of 3 years, you both must very proud of your achievements. You bought the wrong club.....
It beggars belief that in the same week, the begging brochure letters were sent out asking customers to renew, the club organise a meeting with the police to grass fans up. Our club is run by muppets
Comments
Maybe there is a tacit recognition here that the position is irretrievable and that it is now about trying to limit reputational damage. Let us hope so, as the smell of burning bridges is overpowering - they must surely realise that (1) the position with the existing supporter base is irretrievable and (2) that there is zero prospect of replacing them. Attempts at 'divide and rule' at this late stage are not going to cut it.
Involving 'New Scotland Yard' in this nonsense is both ridiculous and embarrassing in equal measure - particularly in a climate where there are many more serious matters for the police to contend with. Maybe Roland has been watching too many back episodes of 'Dixon Of Dock Green' or 'Z Cars'.
As to the beach ball projectiles, it brings to mind the old incantation of Millwall supporters as they bricked the plate glass windows of Mickey Purser's car showrooms on the Old Kent Road after yet another disappointing home defeat - 'de minimis non curat lex': 'the law does not concern itself with trifles'.
The enemy are most certainly on the run and (leaving relegation aside) are about to face their next big pressure point - the 'early bird' season ticket renewal deadline.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/help/requesting
Beach balls a threat ? Making the Met look like fools you say ? Wow The Met ---- fools ??? Woulda thought that ?
PS maybe we could have a list drawn up of songs that are if the right "type" to sing at the protest ? Reviews by a committee and then sent to Corbyn and Abbot for final approval ?
If anyone was arrested for petty acts like this the police would want to give a caution to cut down on paperwork and time and get you out of the station. BUT much better to refuse a caution and asked to be charged and taken to court so this load of bollox can be exposed for what it is.
The borough commander for Greenwich borough is Helen Millichap. Ring 101 raising the above issue and ask for the borough commander to contact you re this matter. Ask for a reference number at the end of the call.
http://content.met.police.uk/News/Greenwich-Borough-Commanders-Blog/1400035831766/1257246745756?scope_id=1257246763889
Then fill in the form below confirming your recent enquiry. Where it asks for the name of the officer, put in Helen Millichap.
https://secure.met.police.uk/email-an-officer/
If you don't get a reply within 48 hours, then ring 101 again with your original phone reference number and raise the issue as a complaint against police.
As the police constantly remind us of their scarce resources I find it strange that Scotland Yard is where this was dealt with. I would suggest contact with the local police Superintendent was more likely.
It would be useful to undo the statement, get what I suggest is a different story and publish that.
Notwithstanding the above for the current regime to use scare/ bulling tactics is nothing short of a disgrace and shows how out of their depth they are.
They have lost the argument and are now thrashing about, but it's us and the club that are suffering.
Edit - not that I had any reason to think it wasn't, but just clarifying for a couple of people who have questioned whether it was. I've asked a couple of questions which they've forwarded to a senior officer in Greenwich - will let you know if I hear anything back via the podcast and on here.
Content of an email I have just sent to the club.
Good Morning
Apologies for bothering you with this matter but my earlier attempt to get an answer from the info@ email address failed to elicit a response of any kind.
I'm not really surprised by this as, having read the recent joint Club/Police statement, I can tell that the Club has been busy attempting to get Beachballs reclassified as Weapons of Mass Destruction: classy bit of PR that!
Now, this, in itself, raises another matter. Having read the Football (Offences) Act 1991, it is clear that it could be an offence for a supporter to return the football being used in the game onto the field of play. A defence is for the offender to prove that he has lawful authority to do this. I wonder, therefore, whether the Club would be prepared to provide written permission to all its supporters to return said ball? Or would it be safer to just leave it where it landed?
Anyway, below, for your consideration is my request for information concerning use of the West Stand car park. I should be extremely grateful if you could give me a definitive response together with reasons as to why my original email was ignored.
Kind Regards
cafcfan
The Peril That Faces Us All - beach balls.
No man, woman or child is safe. Be Alert.
Britain needs Lerts.
Martial Law now exists on beaches across the UK, whilst police desperately scramble to catch the evil perpetrators who threaten our liberty with their volley ball games and their crazed attempts to play football with these air filled bombs on windy beaches.
Stay safe and pray that the evil in our midst is soon extinguished.
I threw a beachball
I threw a beachball
I threw a beachball and so did my mate
Roland moaned
and he groaned
as he hid behind New Scotland Yard
I threw a beachball and so did my mate
Well done Tony Ball Bag and Pinocchio.
....just so I could get a thread on CL that went over 8 pages.
Everyone is getting terribly exercised about that silly cow Jo Tongue, but she isn't even a BBC employee.
You can't tell me that the police haven't got time to investigate your house being burgled but one guy threw a bottle and another ran on a pitch in separate incidents across several weeks - quick, get a press release out there and warn the people to stop this madness!
This is our club, looking to besmirch the name of us, its fans, again. The people running our club are so amateurish that they are trying desperately to hold onto their positions and salaries as they know that no proper business would be interested in employing them.
Keep the protests up, keep them legal, keep these idiots scrabbling around and looking increasingly stupid and petty.
Our club is run by muppets