Agree with most of what you have said @Sage. Good point on Rashford, he would be there to sit on the bench and not much else. I don't think Drinkwater will make it as we have 3 CM's in Dier, Wilshere and Henderson.
Can't edit my original post now for some reason so can't take out Welbeck but this is what I think the squad will be on Monday.
Just got a feeling Townsend will go, may well be wrong.
We don't need two RBs and two LBs.
@dizzee Pretty much answered above, as for Rose and Bertrand, Rose is a lot better going forward and Bertrand gives better defensive shape, if we leave one of the 4 full backs at home then we would only be left with 6 defenders which is too little for a major tournament. If you took out a full back and put in another defender it would have to be a CB, Jagielka pretty much the only choice. He got found out at 2014 and has struggled to stay fit and overall just isn't good enough for international level (could probably say the same about Cahill tbh). I would rather have 4 fullbacks then an extra CB when as pointed out Dier can also drop back if needed.
The rumor about Rashford is he'll be on the stand-by list, but will be bled like Shaw and Stones were before the 2014 World Cup, including making his debut in the friendlies.
I'm still not convinced that Rashford isn't anything more than a Frazier Campbell. He looks decent, but I feel like a lot of that is down to pace, and admittedly he's a decent finisher. You need only look at Defoe to know that's not enough in the modern game to play at the top level.
For those of you with Walker and Clyne in your squads, can I ask why? You have Stones and Dier who can also play at RB, why would you bring two designated RBs?
To answer the question about why two designated right backs..
Stones is young and has shown this season with his up and down form that he is prone to a mistake with his inexperience, sometimes "over-playing" but that will of course come with learning and age. He is also a much better centre half than right back, don't go ruin his career by sticking him at right back to get targeted by one of the top nations, for him to make a mistake and the media slate him for it. We have seen it so many times.
Dier has done a brilliant job in his role of defensive midfield this season for Spurs, with only taking Stones, Smalling and Cahill, he can drop back to centre half if needed, acting like the 4th centre half instead of bringing Jagielka. He hasn't played right back for a long time, not this season for Spurs I don't think when they have Walker and Trippier. Although not slow, his lack of pace could be at his disadvantage when coming up against someone quick like Martial for example.
It would be important to take both Clyne and Walker as forward thinking full backs are so important in the modern game, more so for England with the lack of natural wingers available and likely to go to the Euro's. If one was to get injured, it would be good to have a like for like to come in and not disrupt the dynamics of the team.
For these reasons, this is why I believe Roy will take both Clyne and Walker.
A well argued point. I also would have accepted "so we don't have to take Jagielka" .
I'd disagree on Stones, I think RB might be a nice change for him. He played there a lot when he was younger, and I don't think it's much of a stretch for him. Plus, that ball playing ability would be afforded a bit more leniency at RB. It's not as natural for Dier, as he played mostly through the middle for Sporting, but even Smalling has played there (and played well on a couple occasions I've seen). For a tournament that will probably last 3-6 matches, I think you need to be able to make do. One of the nice things about this England team is that they're young, there are a lot of technical players, and various players who can play in more than one position (which is often an offshoot of being a good technical player).
Going back to the ABJ (Anyone But Jags) argument, I'd be more tempted to use that spot for a chance on a young player or impact player. Looking at the team picked for the Toulan Tournament (U21 side), there isn't really one who screams out to be picked. There are two of three who are somewhat far along in their development, and maybe worth a punt with an eye to the future--Ward-Prowse, Redmond, Ibe, and Loftus-Cheek. W-P has had a very solid season, and L-C is probably the one with the biggest potential, but England already have enough/too many central midfielders. As for Ibe and Redmond, both are raw and given Townsend has done it for England (and is only 24), not sure either are worth getting in ahead of him. Were he fit, Joe Gomez would be an excellent option.
By sort of process of elimination, I'd probably take Townsend, because he can have an impact, he's a natural left footer who plays on the right, and he's done alright for England, especially in games where he comes on as a sub when the game is stretched. I'd NEVER start him, but for the "23rd man," or 20th outfield player, I think you could do a lot worse.
Probably already done this but: GK (3): Hart, Forster, Heaton
*(If Shaw is anywhere near fit I'd take a chance on him and bring Rose as well. Taking a chance on your reserve left back is a good place to take a chance)
For (6): Sterling, Townsend, Rooney, Kane, Sturridge, Vardy
All of your points are very valid and well argued too. The thing with this is we could go on and on forever about the England squad and different players, styles, formations etc.
Ultimately, it's a nice change to have so many different options who bring something to the squad, whilst in the main, they're fairly young and will only get better
One point you make however is about Shaw, and without a competitive game or even an appearance for most of the season after a nasty leg break. It would only be a foolish move to bring him instead of Bertrand or Cresswell. - You say Shaw would be fresh and in a good place fitness wise, comparing to pre season condition, however he wouldn't be match fit and with the course I am currently studying, I very much have to disagree that he would be okay for the Euro. Bertrand and Cresswell have earnt to the right to be in the squad this season with form and performances, in that sense, you can't justify it for Shaw.
Ultimately, it's a nice change to have so many different options who bring something to the squad, whilst in the main, they're fairly young and will only get better
One point you make however is about Shaw, and without a competitive game or even an appearance for most of the season after a nasty leg break. It would only be a foolish move to bring him instead of Bertrand or Cresswell. - You say Shaw would be fresh and in a good place fitness wise, comparing to pre season condition, however he wouldn't be match fit and with the course I am currently studying, I very much have to disagree that he would be okay for the Euro. Bertrand and Cresswell have earnt to the right to be in the squad this season with form and performances, in that sense, you can't justify it for Shaw.
Completely agree, gone are the days when Jamie Carragher is going as cover for RB and Ledley King as cover for the holding midfield role.
Very curious to hear about the course you're doing, and how that relates. I get that there is a sharpness component, but in my mind many of the players will either have had a month off going into the tournament and/or be tired from nine months straight of football. As such, again in my mind, the difference between fatigue and freshness will be narrower than it would in say, a league game in November. Again, would love to hear your thoughts and what you're studying.
I'm very unsentimental when it comes to picking players. For me, the only way to "earn" a place is by being better at international level than those around you. It's why, despite all their Premier League experience, I'd never have Mark Noble or Ryan Shawcross in an England squad because what they do at club level wouldn't translate (i.e. they'd get booked or sent off constantly).
Ultimately, it's a nice change to have so many different options who bring something to the squad, whilst in the main, they're fairly young and will only get better
One point you make however is about Shaw, and without a competitive game or even an appearance for most of the season after a nasty leg break. It would only be a foolish move to bring him instead of Bertrand or Cresswell. - You say Shaw would be fresh and in a good place fitness wise, comparing to pre season condition, however he wouldn't be match fit and with the course I am currently studying, I very much have to disagree that he would be okay for the Euro. Bertrand and Cresswell have earnt to the right to be in the squad this season with form and performances, in that sense, you can't justify it for Shaw.
Completely agree, gone are the days when Jamie Carragher is going as cover for RB and Ledley King as cover for the holding midfield role.
Very curious to hear about the course you're doing, and how that relates. I get that there is a sharpness component, but in my mind many of the players will either have had a month off going into the tournament and/or be tired from nine months straight of football. As such, again in my mind, the difference between fatigue and freshness will be narrower than it would in say, a league game in November. Again, would love to hear your thoughts and what you're studying.
I'm very unsentimental when it comes to picking players. For me, the only way to "earn" a place is by being better at international level than those around you. It's why, despite all their Premier League experience, I'd never have Mark Noble or Ryan Shawcross in an England squad because what they do at club level wouldn't translate (i.e. they'd get booked or sent off constantly).
I am studying sports science with professional football coaching, so part of the course is about the body and injuries, how long things take to heal, the prevention etc. I also learn about periodisation and that there are 6 phases in the macro-cycle. I highly doubt Shaw is at phase 4 or 5 which is the competitive stages. There is also a huge difference that many people don't realise between being generally fit and competitively ready. 9 months without football is a long time to come back and be ready, players who have played through the season may suffer from a slight fatigue, but they'll be better conditioned to cope with the stresses international football will bring.
I also agree that you can't be sentimental, just that it's hard to be better at international football than those around you without impressing at club level to prove yourself on that stage. Some players ultimately don't have enough in their game to be international players, Shawcross and for me, Jagielka is good examples of this. Noble could fall into that category but hasn't been given a chance in a friendly to even see how he gets on. However, players like Bertrand, Drinkwater etc who have performed very well this season, who you can see different elements of their game, have warranted a place in the squad through the sentiments of club football. As otherwise, you'll be stuck with the same players at international without trying other players who have performed well at club level, but won't chance them. With that you'll end up with a Rooney situation. Someone who in my opinion is going to the Euro on reputation and name, as he hasn't exactly played well enough to be considered part of an XI who should be the best in the country this season.
Will be a very interesting summer that's for sure and I look forward to it.
When he's sitting at home watching the Euros on TV, maybe he'll be wondering if the Man City move was a good idea (other than for his bank balance)
A bit harsh, he played pretty regularly for City when fit, his problem, as it always has been, is that he was rarely fit. He'd probably still be going to the Euros if Drinkwater, Alli, and Dier hadn't all had brilliant, breakthrough seasons. Not staying at Villa was a wise choice, even if he isn't a top four/six level player.
No international class defenders = no joy at international competitions.
Agree - I think Smalling is getting there and Stones will in 2-4 years. What's up with Baines, has he retired? Would have him in there over Bertrand. Set piece specialist too.
Doesn't Baines get homesick if he's away for longer than a weekend? Seem to remember a problem along those lines a few years ago. Otherwise I agree he's better than Bertrand.
When he's sitting at home watching the Euros on TV, maybe he'll be wondering if the Man City move was a good idea (other than for his bank balance)
A bit harsh, he played pretty regularly for City when fit, his problem, as it always has been, is that he was rarely fit. He'd probably still be going to the Euros if Drinkwater, Alli, and Dier hadn't all had brilliant, breakthrough seasons. Not staying at Villa was a wise choice, even if he isn't a top four/six level player.
He could easily have gone somewhere other than Man City, and he's hardly been a regular for City, even when fit, merely an English squad player to bump up the quota.
If anyone should have bought him, it's Man U, as their central midfield is incredibly pedestrian
Doesn't Baines get homesick if he's away for longer than a weekend? Seem to remember a problem along those lines a few years ago. Otherwise I agree he's better than Bertrand.
Can't Roy just buy him a big squishy teddy bear and get all the boys to give lots of hugs.
Doesn't Baines get homesick if he's away for longer than a weekend? Seem to remember a problem along those lines a few years ago. Otherwise I agree he's better than Bertrand.
I'm not sure he's better than Bertrand now. Baines has had a very poor season, lots of injuries and far less of the attacking threat he used to contribute
Agree with most of what you have said @Sage. Good point on Rashford, he would be there to sit on the bench and not much else. I don't think Drinkwater will make it as we have 3 CM's in Dier, Wilshere and Henderson.
Can't edit my original post now for some reason so can't take out Welbeck but this is what I think the squad will be on Monday.
How many games has Rashford played, Walcott in 2006 all over again?
Hodgson has to trim his Squad though so looks like we'll take four Strikers.
Although Rooney has stated he wants to play in Midfield for Euro 2016 so by leaving out Rashford we'd only then have three Strikers... Hmm..
Very true, unless we bin Wilshire, we know what he can do from past performances, but he has only played a handful of games in the last two years, is Rooney actually good enough to play in midfield internationally?
Rashford really? Gotta be at least 3/4 better options in terms of offering something different.
Waste of a space. Can't imagine Rashford will be used unless there's an injury crisis or to give him a run out if we're 3-0 up with 15 minutes to go. Would have preferred Carroll or Walcott, despite their various shortcomings.
Comments
Ultimately, it's a nice change to have so many different options who bring something to the squad, whilst in the main, they're fairly young and will only get better
One point you make however is about Shaw, and without a competitive game or even an appearance for most of the season after a nasty leg break. It would only be a foolish move to bring him instead of Bertrand or Cresswell. - You say Shaw would be fresh and in a good place fitness wise, comparing to pre season condition, however he wouldn't be match fit and with the course I am currently studying, I very much have to disagree that he would be okay for the Euro. Bertrand and Cresswell have earnt to the right to be in the squad this season with form and performances, in that sense, you can't justify it for Shaw.
Very curious to hear about the course you're doing, and how that relates. I get that there is a sharpness component, but in my mind many of the players will either have had a month off going into the tournament and/or be tired from nine months straight of football. As such, again in my mind, the difference between fatigue and freshness will be narrower than it would in say, a league game in November. Again, would love to hear your thoughts and what you're studying.
I'm very unsentimental when it comes to picking players. For me, the only way to "earn" a place is by being better at international level than those around you. It's why, despite all their Premier League experience, I'd never have Mark Noble or Ryan Shawcross in an England squad because what they do at club level wouldn't translate (i.e. they'd get booked or sent off constantly).
I also agree that you can't be sentimental, just that it's hard to be better at international football than those around you without impressing at club level to prove yourself on that stage. Some players ultimately don't have enough in their game to be international players, Shawcross and for me, Jagielka is good examples of this. Noble could fall into that category but hasn't been given a chance in a friendly to even see how he gets on. However, players like Bertrand, Drinkwater etc who have performed very well this season, who you can see different elements of their game, have warranted a place in the squad through the sentiments of club football. As otherwise, you'll be stuck with the same players at international without trying other players who have performed well at club level, but won't chance them. With that you'll end up with a Rooney situation. Someone who in my opinion is going to the Euro on reputation and name, as he hasn't exactly played well enough to be considered part of an XI who should be the best in the country this season.
Will be a very interesting summer that's for sure and I look forward to it.
When he's sitting at home watching the Euros on TV, maybe he'll be wondering if the Man City move was a good idea (other than for his bank balance)
If anyone should have bought him, it's Man U, as their central midfield is incredibly pedestrian
BREAKING NEWS:
ENGLAND SQUAD ANNOUNCED
Goalkeepers: Hart, Forster, Heaton
Defenders: Bertrand, Clyne, Cahill, Rose, Smalling, Stones, Walker
Midfielders: Alli, Barkley, Dier, Delph, Drinkwater, Henderson, Lallana, Milner, Sterling, Townsend, Wilshere
Strikers: Kane, Rashford, Rooney, Sturridge, Vardy
link to squad.
Although Rooney has stated he wants to play in Midfield for Euro 2016 so by leaving out Rashford we'd only then have three Strikers... Hmm..