Think this will be a tournament where you can get away with having an average defence if your attack is gonna bail you out.
Go through the squads and defence is probably most sides weakness.
Rose/Walker/Clyne are all good attacking full backs which against sides like those in our group is important. It's why we done well in qualifying. Then if we finish top we play another average side in the second round.
In the World Cup our defence was found out by Luiz Suarez and Balloteli, we won't face that type of quality until the Quarters/Semis (apart from Bale who's gonNa be carrying Simon Church and his mates)
I don't think we have an average defence. I think we have a poor defence.
See that makes no sense. If you are justifying Wilshere then it justifies Delph. Delph has been excellent in the England games he has played. Personally I'd rather have neither. Wilshere is massively overrated and has started 1 game this season and Delph hasn't played enough either. However, when the answer to these problems is Mark Noble then it shows the depth of quality for English players is very thin at the moment.
I wouldn't have Noble within 1,000 miles of the squad, but ahead of him you have Dier, Wilshere, Henderson, Alli, Barkley, Drinkwater, Delph, Lallana, Milner, Ox, Shelvey. It's not a bad amount of depth.
You're just naming midfielders there and not even ones that play in the same position as Noble. Just because someone is English and plays in the PL doesn't necessarily mean they are International standard. My point still stands. The midfield (along with practically the whole squad) picks itself, purely based on the fact that there isn't the required depth (see Wilshere and Delph being in there when had a similar level player who had been playing well all season would have been included instead).
I'm not intentionally being negative about England, in fact I am quite excited about this summer. There are some exciting young/new talents in there. I don't necessarily think we will go deep in the tournament based on the lack of depth we have but I think there will be some enjoyable moments.
I was naming central midfielders. I take your point and I think I sort of agree with you. I guess my feeling on Noble is that there is always going to be a player, like Shawcross or Wed Morgan if he hadn't played for Jamaica, who is a Premier League stalwart and therefore has some people baying for his inclusion even though their style of play only works in the Premier League.
I think where we disagree is that I think this group of midfielders is a strong group, and a young one. Dier and Alli (22, 20) provide two good bookends to the midfield, and the argument is really who can play the shuttling role going up and back. I disagree with you, I think Wilshere can be a very good play on his day (he does seem to fluctuate between over and under-rated). Henderson played that role very well against Germany, and Delph played that role and on the left of the diamond well in qualifying. I don't really think this is the problem area of the team, with Drinkwater as cover for Dier and Barkley cover for Alli (I don't rate him as highly as some but he has ability).
I watched the Cup Final on saturday, and realised that idiot who got sent off is a Lynch pin of the England defence. Palace tormented Smalling - what will the Germans, Spaniards and French do to him- Honestly, it seems we have the basis of a decent squad finally, but if our defence contains the likes of Smalling, the attackers will have no chance of keeping up with the goals going in due to our defence. Sounds like the turks gave us a tough time at the back too! Sorry but unless Roy conjures up a seriously new defence, this will be another duff tournament for us.
See that makes no sense. If you are justifying Wilshere then it justifies Delph. Delph has been excellent in the England games he has played. Personally I'd rather have neither. Wilshere is massively overrated and has started 1 game this season and Delph hasn't played enough either. However, when the answer to these problems is Mark Noble then it shows the depth of quality for English players is very thin at the moment.
I wouldn't have Noble within 1,000 miles of the squad, but ahead of him you have Dier, Wilshere, Henderson, Alli, Barkley, Drinkwater, Delph, Lallana, Milner, Ox, Shelvey. It's not a bad amount of depth.
You're just naming midfielders there and not even ones that play in the same position as Noble. Just because someone is English and plays in the PL doesn't necessarily mean they are International standard. My point still stands. The midfield (along with practically the whole squad) picks itself, purely based on the fact that there isn't the required depth (see Wilshere and Delph being in there when had a similar level player who had been playing well all season would have been included instead).
I'm not intentionally being negative about England, in fact I am quite excited about this summer. There are some exciting young/new talents in there. I don't necessarily think we will go deep in the tournament based on the lack of depth we have but I think there will be some enjoyable moments.
I was naming central midfielders. I take your point and I think I sort of agree with you. I guess my feeling on Noble is that there is always going to be a player, like Shawcross or Wed Morgan if he hadn't played for Jamaica, who is a Premier League stalwart and therefore has some people baying for his inclusion even though their style of play only works in the Premier League.
I think where we disagree is that I think this group of midfielders is a strong group, and a young one. Dier and Alli (22, 20) provide two good bookends to the midfield, and the argument is really who can play the shuttling role going up and back. I disagree with you, I think Wilshere can be a very good play on his day (he does seem to fluctuate between over and under-rated). Henderson played that role very well against Germany, and Delph played that role and on the left of the diamond well in qualifying. I don't really think this is the problem area of the team, with Drinkwater as cover for Dier and Barkley cover for Alli (I don't rate him as highly as some but he has ability).
I don't necessarily disagree with you that much. I think there is some real talent in the midfield area. My problem/worry is just the depth. We can just about fill up the midfield positions with decent to very good players it's just beyond that there is a bit of a dearth of talent. I think this is proved by Wilshere and Delph both being selected. Good players yes but would not be near the squad had players of a similar level who had played an entire season been an option.
"Leicester City striker Jamie Vardy will miss England's friendly against Australia on Friday - because he is getting married just two days before."
Now i know it's only a friendly, and he's apparently already moved it once, but why not just move it until after the Euro's?
No issue at all for me.
There is no point having these three matches if the same players play in every single match. Good opportunity for someone to try and take his place.
My thoughts exactly. He didn't exactly work as a left forward, so I think whether he was there on Friday or not it's be good to try someone else in that role.
"Leicester City striker Jamie Vardy will miss England's friendly against Australia on Friday - because he is getting married just two days before."
Now i know it's only a friendly, and he's apparently already moved it once, but why not just move it until after the Euro's?
don't see an issue, after Friday they play next Thursday - he gets married Wednesday and no doubt joins back up on Monday
Agree. I doubt many players will play in all 3 games. No different to the man Utd and Liverpool players not being available yesterday. Ideal chance for Rashford to show what he can do. Vardy has played all but 2 games this season, so could probably do with a game off anyway.
"Leicester City striker Jamie Vardy will miss England's friendly against Australia on Friday - because he is getting married just two days before."
Now i know it's only a friendly, and he's apparently already moved it once, but why not just move it until after the Euro's?
don't see an issue, after Friday they play next Thursday - he gets married Wednesday and no doubt joins back up on Monday
Agree. I doubt many players will play in all 3 games. No different to the man Utd and Liverpool players not being available yesterday. Ideal chance for Rashford to show what he can do. Vardy has played all but 2 games this season, so could probably do with a game off anyway.
Sturridge and Rooney as well, depending on formations. Lallana could play on the left of a 3 man attack if we play 433. Indeed we have a LOT of options up front and with one game before the party is finalised, it makes sense to try things out
One International class defender in Smalling, the rest are average/inexperiened/ better at going forward than defending. A shame because we look good in midfield & attack.
Very generous saying Smalling is International class imo. He is the best of an average bunch but he will not bring any game changing plan to an oppositions attack.
England have to keep the ball up the other end to minimize the conceding risk.
Yeah remember that the 26 is being cut to 23 after this Australia game so it is the final chance for rashford, Townsend, delph, wilshere and sterling to prove they should be in the squad. Vardys place is secured.
Sterling looked poor and low on confidence imo yesterday.
Sterling looks completely different from the player he was a year ago. Could need a kick up the arse so perhaps being dropped from the squad would help or would that just compound the problems further? At the moment there's probably a strong argument to keep Townsend and get rid of Sterling.
Sterling looks completely different from the player he was a year ago. Could need a kick up the arse so perhaps being dropped from the squad would help or would that just compound the problems further? At the moment there's probably a strong argument to keep Townsend and get rid of Sterling.
It's the classic story of a young player getting a big money move, and struggling at his new club with the expectation and struggling to get enough matches
Rodwell, Delph, Sterling, Sinclair all fall into this category to varying degrees, as does the likes of Bony.
Sterling looks completely different from the player he was a year ago. Could need a kick up the arse so perhaps being dropped from the squad would help or would that just compound the problems further? At the moment there's probably a strong argument to keep Townsend and get rid of Sterling.
The bloke wanted his high move and big bucks - got it and guess what? He's gone backwards and seems really disinterested. Big game for him yesterday,l at his home ground, but he never really showed up. Did well at Liverpool, but imo one of the most over rated, over hyped players about. Doesn't deserve a place.
He reminds me a bit of Shaun Wright- Phillips. Decent enough, but never reached a level he could have. And then spent most of his career content with sitting on the bench counting his money.
It's shame because he clearly has the talent, but will probably not fulfil it.
Sterling looks completely different from the player he was a year ago. Could need a kick up the arse so perhaps being dropped from the squad would help or would that just compound the problems further? At the moment there's probably a strong argument to keep Townsend and get rid of Sterling.
The bloke wanted his high move and big bucks - got it and guess what? He's gone backwards and seems really disinterested. Big game for him yesterday,l at his home ground, but he never really showed up. Did well at Liverpool, but imo one of the most over rated, over hyped players about. Doesn't deserve a place.
He reminds me a bit of Shaun Wright- Phillips. Decent enough, but never reached a level he could have. And then spent most of his career content with sitting on the bench counting his money.
It's shame because he clearly has the talent, but will probably not fulfil it.
Completely disagree, Sterling has touch and technical ability that SWP never, ever had. I really loved watching SWP at his peak, but he was always an incredibly one-footed knock it and run player. Sterling has far more guile, cleverness, and close control.
In a competitive match, Sterling would have had his FB on a booking from the 15th minutes, and would have been able to cause a lot more havoc down that side. He's not at his best, but he's only 21. Football365 put it best for me: "Played a part in the opening goal, and was fouled on numerous occasions as Caner Erkin struggled to halt his progress. Unfortunately, Sterling is now being judged from a default position of negativity, as if he must prove his critics wrong in order to justify a place, but he’s still England’s quickest attacking player and therefore potentially most dangerous. At 21, let’s let him breathe a little bit. Completed six dribbles, more than any other player on the pitch, despite his early departure."
I know he has played there all season and been great there but I'd take Dier away from the mid and stick him centre back, Stones is an accident waiting to happen, Cahill is bang average, Smalling probably the best of the bunch but still dodgy. I'd rather see Drinkwater, Henderson or Rooney playing a holding mid if it meant not watching Stones or Cahill.
Hart Clyne Dier Smalling Rose Rooney Wilshere Lallana Alli Kane Vardy
Something like that I'd go with, maybe replace Lallana with Rooney and have Drinkwater protecting the back. Stones or Cahill should not be starting for England. Neither have even had a decent season.
Sterling looks completely different from the player he was a year ago. Could need a kick up the arse so perhaps being dropped from the squad would help or would that just compound the problems further? At the moment there's probably a strong argument to keep Townsend and get rid of Sterling.
The bloke wanted his high move and big bucks - got it and guess what? He's gone backwards and seems really disinterested. Big game for him yesterday,l at his home ground, but he never really showed up. Did well at Liverpool, but imo one of the most over rated, over hyped players about. Doesn't deserve a place.
He reminds me a bit of Shaun Wright- Phillips. Decent enough, but never reached a level he could have. And then spent most of his career content with sitting on the bench counting his money.
It's shame because he clearly has the talent, but will probably not fulfil it.
Completely disagree, Sterling has touch and technical ability that SWP never, ever had. I really loved watching SWP at his peak, but he was always an incredibly one-footed knock it and run player. Sterling has far more guile, cleverness, and close control.
In a competitive match, Sterling would have had his FB on a booking from the 15th minutes, and would have been able to cause a lot more havoc down that side. He's not at his best, but he's only 21. Football365 put it best for me: "Played a part in the opening goal, and was fouled on numerous occasions as Caner Erkin struggled to halt his progress. Unfortunately, Sterling is now being judged from a default position of negativity, as if he must prove his critics wrong in order to justify a place, but he’s still England’s quickest attacking player and therefore potentially most dangerous. At 21, let’s let him breathe a little bit. Completed six dribbles, more than any other player on the pitch, despite his early departure."
Which is why I said he reminded me a 'bit' of SWP. Clearly Sterling is a better player and has far more technical ability. I can see his career going down the route of SWP. Personally think he should have stayed at Liverpool where he thrived on playing every week. at City he doesn't. Maybe under Pep he will get back to his old self.
I'd hate to see it be Sturridge, he's so talented, and he has the quality to change a game with his sheer ability.
I would have said Rashford up until recently, but I'm somewhat intrigued by playing him on the left in the Wellbeck role. The wank-a-thon that was Friday's match was all way too over the top for me, and I'm still not entirely convinced by him, but I think he has a decent case. Would take a half fit Sturridge over him in a heartbeat.
Personally, I'd drop Townsend and Walker, as previously stated. I thought Drinkwater was dreaful playing on the left side of a diamond against Australia. That being said, it's not a natural position for him.
I'd hate to see it be Sturridge, he's so talented, and he has the quality to change a game with his sheer ability.
I would have said Rashford up until recently, but I'm somewhat intrigued by playing him on the left in the Wellbeck role. The wank-a-thon that was Friday's match was all way too over the top for me, and I'm still not entirely convinced by him, but I think he has a decent case. Would take a half fit Sturridge over him in a heartbeat.
Personally, I'd drop Townsend and Walker, as previously stated. I thought Drinkwater was dreaful playing on the left side of a diamond against Australia. That being said, it's not a natural position for him.
Agree with most of that. Everyone was banging on about Rashford this and that, but am sorry he scored against a fairly poor Australia side in comparison to the teams we will be facing in the European Championships. The defending was also woeful for that goal.
Sturridge has so much more ability and brings something much more than what Rashford does.
I thought Townsend showed why he could stay in the 23 as he is exciting something totally different again to the rest of the midfielders.
I believe Barkley may miss out along with one of Sturridge, Townsend or Drinkwater. All of which I really hope makes it but unfortunately won't. Not now Henderson and Wilshere came through injury free, Roy is bound to take them both, rightly or wrongly.
With only taking 7 defenders as it is, there's no way I can see him dropping a defender from the final 23.
Comments
Not my idea of the way to win it.
I think where we disagree is that I think this group of midfielders is a strong group, and a young one. Dier and Alli (22, 20) provide two good bookends to the midfield, and the argument is really who can play the shuttling role going up and back. I disagree with you, I think Wilshere can be a very good play on his day (he does seem to fluctuate between over and under-rated). Henderson played that role very well against Germany, and Delph played that role and on the left of the diamond well in qualifying. I don't really think this is the problem area of the team, with Drinkwater as cover for Dier and Barkley cover for Alli (I don't rate him as highly as some but he has ability).
Spain won a tournament without playing any strikers once.
They had a slightly better midfield than we have though!
Now i know it's only a friendly, and he's apparently already moved it once, but why not just move it until after the Euro's?
There is no point having these three matches if the same players play in every single match. Good opportunity for someone to try and take his place.
Is he in their squad?
England have to keep the ball up the other end to minimize the conceding risk.
England will somehow crawl to the semis.
Sterling looked poor and low on confidence imo yesterday.
Rodwell, Delph, Sterling, Sinclair all fall into this category to varying degrees, as does the likes of Bony.
He reminds me a bit of Shaun Wright- Phillips. Decent enough, but never reached a level he could have. And then spent most of his career content with sitting on the bench counting his money.
It's shame because he clearly has the talent, but will probably not fulfil it.
In a competitive match, Sterling would have had his FB on a booking from the 15th minutes, and would have been able to cause a lot more havoc down that side. He's not at his best, but he's only 21. Football365 put it best for me:
"Played a part in the opening goal, and was fouled on numerous occasions as Caner Erkin struggled to halt his progress. Unfortunately, Sterling is now being judged from a default position of negativity, as if he must prove his critics wrong in order to justify a place, but he’s still England’s quickest attacking player and therefore potentially most dangerous. At 21, let’s let him breathe a little bit. Completed six dribbles, more than any other player on the pitch, despite his early departure."
Hart
Clyne Dier Smalling Rose
Rooney
Wilshere Lallana
Alli
Kane Vardy
Something like that I'd go with, maybe replace Lallana with Rooney and have Drinkwater protecting the back. Stones or Cahill should not be starting for England. Neither have even had a decent season.
Townsend and ...... To miss out
Can't call it.
I would have said Rashford up until recently, but I'm somewhat intrigued by playing him on the left in the Wellbeck role. The wank-a-thon that was Friday's match was all way too over the top for me, and I'm still not entirely convinced by him, but I think he has a decent case. Would take a half fit Sturridge over him in a heartbeat.
Personally, I'd drop Townsend and Walker, as previously stated. I thought Drinkwater was dreaful playing on the left side of a diamond against Australia. That being said, it's not a natural position for him.
Sturridge has so much more ability and brings something much more than what Rashford does.
I thought Townsend showed why he could stay in the 23 as he is exciting something totally different again to the rest of the midfielders.
I believe Barkley may miss out along with one of Sturridge, Townsend or Drinkwater. All of which I really hope makes it but unfortunately won't. Not now Henderson and Wilshere came through injury free, Roy is bound to take them both, rightly or wrongly.
With only taking 7 defenders as it is, there's no way I can see him dropping a defender from the final 23.
A real slog for him now. Looks a lame duck to me. Leave him at home.