One thing that seems to be emerging is that Slade has about as much influence on player movement as Powell, Riga, Peeters, Luzon, and Fraeye. The regime throw the managers a few crumbs like Vetokele or Kashi or Ajose and then compel them to use desperate loans or unready youngsters. If there is to be any hope then a convincing narrative that Slade is in charge in a completely different way to previous managers then he needs a meaningful budget and autonomy over arrivals and to an extent departures. Older lifers might know what I mean by saying Slade needs his 'clause four' moment. The only other refuge for fans is to see wins, however they happen, luck, fluke, dominate, overwhelm I don't care, but wins are the only acceptable diet...oh and promotion. The current vibe for me is a nice innocent man who is dancing to the same old tune, presumably for the money. The darker interpretation is that Slade is gung ho complicit with this regime.
You seem to be determined to micro analyse every event or transfer as evidence of some failing of RD. In this instance we really do need to wait until the final (or near final) squad is in place. I don't get the references by some that RD is in sme way trying to extract value from the club. You just don't make meaningful returns in most cases of football ownership, there will be a budget that Slade knows to work within.
Players always leave and indeed should as the collective result was relegation.
The domino effect and brinkmanship at all clubs in negotiations means many transfers go to the wire of deadline day. It's not healthy but is the reality.
As far as I can see Slade is determining the players and KM holds the purse strings - some deals come off and some don't.
A million for Pope if true is a good deal based on his perceived ability by many on here - he didn't consistently inspire confidence in us all.
Slade does not seem to have much say in the players we are selling.
Give Lookman, Watt and Teixeira leaving then unless Slade tells us to f*** off it leads me to think he is another yes man.
You can't seriously have believed JBG and Cousins were going to stay. The surprise is Pope but everyone has a price.
The names you quote are likely to go as well and Slade would realise that more than you or I. Reality is we are 3rd tier now and that limits appeal to existing and prospective players.
Of course not, I realise that players will go.
Call me green but it would be nice if we were looking to try and keep players rather than out at the earliest possible opportunity. At least try and give it till the January window then let them go if we are not in an agreed position in the table.
The Belgians have no ambition.
Spoke with Nick Pope at some length at last season's Sponsors' dinner and what a smashing young man he is....
Unless the couple of vinos I'd sipped in a ladylike fashion that evening clouded my judgement, I'd swear he had no intention of leaving us during the close season & was proud of his achievements in goal since he replaced Henders.
It follows, that as EA stated, no great attempt has been made by the cabal to persuade him to stay.
As always, the sniff of a "profit" means any relevant players are ushered out without a backwards glance.
Just as we are "customers", the players are commodities.
And whether we have an English manager or not, nothing will change this modus operandi.
One thing that seems to be emerging is that Slade has about as much influence on player movement as Powell, Riga, Peeters, Luzon, and Fraeye. The regime throw the managers a few crumbs like Vetokele or Kashi or Ajose and then compel them to use desperate loans or unready youngsters. If there is to be any hope then a convincing narrative that Slade is in charge in a completely different way to previous managers then he needs a meaningful budget and autonomy over arrivals and to an extent departures. Older lifers might know what I mean by saying Slade needs his 'clause four' moment. The only other refuge for fans is to see wins, however they happen, luck, fluke, dominate, overwhelm I don't care, but wins are the only acceptable diet...oh and promotion. The current vibe for me is a nice innocent man who is dancing to the same old tune, presumably for the money. The darker interpretation is that Slade is gung ho complicit with this regime.
You seem to be determined to micro analyse every event or transfer as evidence of some failing of RD. In this instance we really do need to wait until the final (or near final) squad is in place. I don't get the references by some that RD is in sme way trying to extract value from the club. You just don't make meaningful returns in most cases of football ownership, there will be a budget that Slade knows to work within.
Players always leave and indeed should as the collective result was relegation.
The domino effect and brinkmanship at all clubs in negotiations means many transfers go to the wire of deadline day. It's not healthy but is the reality.
As far as I can see Slade is determining the players and KM holds the purse strings - some deals come off and some don't.
A million for Pope if true is a good deal based on his perceived ability by many on here - he didn't consistently inspire confidence in us all.
Slade does not seem to have much say in the players we are selling.
Give Lookman, Watt and Teixeira leaving then unless Slade tells us to f*** off it leads me to think he is another yes man.
You can't seriously have believed JBG and Cousins were going to stay. The surprise is Pope but everyone has a price.
The names you quote are likely to go as well and Slade would realise that more than you or I. Reality is we are 3rd tier now and that limits appeal to existing and prospective players.
Of course not, I realise that players will go.
Call me green but it would be nice if we were looking to try and keep players rather than out at the earliest possible opportunity. At least try and give it till the January window then let them go if we are not in an agreed position in the table.
The Belgians have no ambition.
Spoke with Nick Pope at some length at last season's Sponsors' dinner and what a smashing young man he is....
Unless the couple of vinos I'd sipped in a ladylike fashion that evening clouded my judgement, I'd swear he had no intention of leaving us during the close season & was proud of his achievements in goal since he replaced Henders.
It follows, that as EA stated, no great attempt has been made by the cabal to persuade him to stay.
As always, the sniff of a "profit" means any relevant players are ushered out without a backwards glance.
Just as we are "customers", the players are commodities.
And whether we have an English manager or not, nothing will change this modus operandi.
Looks like my guesstimate of 6 debuts at Bury will not he too far out.
There was a quote on here a few months back to the effect that if you want to judge what decisions a businessman will make in the future, look at what he has previously done. This summer shows a marked similarity to last close season. It's not over yet, but a lot of people are criticizing RD and that CEO for being useless as they can plainly see a very clear pattern. Most of us would like to see a successful team, but it's silly to criticise the doom sayers, when all our experience with these guys says that they spend the minimum and wing it.
One thing that seems to be emerging is that Slade has about as much influence on player movement as Powell, Riga, Peeters, Luzon, and Fraeye. The regime throw the managers a few crumbs like Vetokele or Kashi or Ajose and then compel them to use desperate loans or unready youngsters. If there is to be any hope then a convincing narrative that Slade is in charge in a completely different way to previous managers then he needs a meaningful budget and autonomy over arrivals and to an extent departures. Older lifers might know what I mean by saying Slade needs his 'clause four' moment. The only other refuge for fans is to see wins, however they happen, luck, fluke, dominate, overwhelm I don't care, but wins are the only acceptable diet...oh and promotion. The current vibe for me is a nice innocent man who is dancing to the same old tune, presumably for the money. The darker interpretation is that Slade is gung ho complicit with this regime.
You seem to be determined to micro analyse every event or transfer as evidence of some failing of RD. In this instance we really do need to wait until the final (or near final) squad is in place. I don't get the references by some that RD is in sme way trying to extract value from the club. You just don't make meaningful returns in most cases of football ownership, there will be a budget that Slade knows to work within.
Players always leave and indeed should as the collective result was relegation.
The domino effect and brinkmanship at all clubs in negotiations means many transfers go to the wire of deadline day. It's not healthy but is the reality.
As far as I can see Slade is determining the players and KM holds the purse strings - some deals come off and some don't.
A million for Pope if true is a good deal based on his perceived ability by many on here - he didn't consistently inspire confidence in us all.
Slade does not seem to have much say in the players we are selling.
Give Lookman, Watt and Teixeira leaving then unless Slade tells us to f*** off it leads me to think he is another yes man.
You can't seriously have believed JBG and Cousins were going to stay. The surprise is Pope but everyone has a price.
The names you quote are likely to go as well and Slade would realise that more than you or I. Reality is we are 3rd tier now and that limits appeal to existing and prospective players.
Of course not, I realise that players will go.
Call me green but it would be nice if we were looking to try and keep players rather than out at the earliest possible opportunity. At least try and give it till the January window then let them go if we are not in an agreed position in the table.
The Belgians have no ambition.
Spoke with Nick Pope at some length at last season's Sponsors' dinner and what a smashing young man he is....
Unless the couple of vinos I'd sipped in a ladylike fashion that evening clouded my judgement, I'd swear he had no intention of leaving us during the close season & was proud of his achievements in goal since he replaced Henders.
It follows, that as EA stated, no great attempt has been made by the cabal to persuade him to stay.
As always, the sniff of a "profit" means any relevant players are ushered out without a backwards glance.
Just as we are "customers", the players are commodities.
And whether we have an English manager or not, nothing will change this modus operandi.
One thing that seems to be emerging is that Slade has about as much influence on player movement as Powell, Riga, Peeters, Luzon, and Fraeye. The regime throw the managers a few crumbs like Vetokele or Kashi or Ajose and then compel them to use desperate loans or unready youngsters. If there is to be any hope then a convincing narrative that Slade is in charge in a completely different way to previous managers then he needs a meaningful budget and autonomy over arrivals and to an extent departures. Older lifers might know what I mean by saying Slade needs his 'clause four' moment. The only other refuge for fans is to see wins, however they happen, luck, fluke, dominate, overwhelm I don't care, but wins are the only acceptable diet...oh and promotion. The current vibe for me is a nice innocent man who is dancing to the same old tune, presumably for the money. The darker interpretation is that Slade is gung ho complicit with this regime.
You seem to be determined to micro analyse every event or transfer as evidence of some failing of RD. In this instance we really do need to wait until the final (or near final) squad is in place. I don't get the references by some that RD is in sme way trying to extract value from the club. You just don't make meaningful returns in most cases of football ownership, there will be a budget that Slade knows to work within.
Players always leave and indeed should as the collective result was relegation.
The domino effect and brinkmanship at all clubs in negotiations means many transfers go to the wire of deadline day. It's not healthy but is the reality.
As far as I can see Slade is determining the players and KM holds the purse strings - some deals come off and some don't.
A million for Pope if true is a good deal based on his perceived ability by many on here - he didn't consistently inspire confidence in us all.
Slade does not seem to have much say in the players we are selling.
Give Lookman, Watt and Teixeira leaving then unless Slade tells us to f*** off it leads me to think he is another yes man.
You can't seriously have believed JBG and Cousins were going to stay. The surprise is Pope but everyone has a price.
The names you quote are likely to go as well and Slade would realise that more than you or I. Reality is we are 3rd tier now and that limits appeal to existing and prospective players.
Of course not, I realise that players will go.
Call me green but it would be nice if we were looking to try and keep players rather than out at the earliest possible opportunity. At least try and give it till the January window then let them go if we are not in an agreed position in the table.
The Belgians have no ambition.
Spoke with Nick Pope at some length at last season's Sponsors' dinner and what a smashing young man he is....
Unless the couple of vinos I'd sipped in a ladylike fashion that evening clouded my judgement, I'd swear he had no intention of leaving us during the close season & was proud of his achievements in goal since he replaced Henders.
It follows, that as EA stated, no great attempt has been made by the cabal to persuade him to stay.
As always, the sniff of a "profit" means any relevant players are ushered out without a backwards glance.
Just as we are "customers", the players are commodities.
And whether we have an English manager or not, nothing will change this modus operandi.
Spot on
except that he didn't know at that point that a Premier League team would want him. Not easy to say no to a move that will set him up for the rest of his life.
One thing that seems to be emerging is that Slade has about as much influence on player movement as Powell, Riga, Peeters, Luzon, and Fraeye. The regime throw the managers a few crumbs like Vetokele or Kashi or Ajose and then compel them to use desperate loans or unready youngsters. If there is to be any hope then a convincing narrative that Slade is in charge in a completely different way to previous managers then he needs a meaningful budget and autonomy over arrivals and to an extent departures. Older lifers might know what I mean by saying Slade needs his 'clause four' moment. The only other refuge for fans is to see wins, however they happen, luck, fluke, dominate, overwhelm I don't care, but wins are the only acceptable diet...oh and promotion. The current vibe for me is a nice innocent man who is dancing to the same old tune, presumably for the money. The darker interpretation is that Slade is gung ho complicit with this regime.
You seem to be determined to micro analyse every event or transfer as evidence of some failing of RD. In this instance we really do need to wait until the final (or near final) squad is in place. I don't get the references by some that RD is in sme way trying to extract value from the club. You just don't make meaningful returns in most cases of football ownership, there will be a budget that Slade knows to work within.
Players always leave and indeed should as the collective result was relegation.
The domino effect and brinkmanship at all clubs in negotiations means many transfers go to the wire of deadline day. It's not healthy but is the reality.
As far as I can see Slade is determining the players and KM holds the purse strings - some deals come off and some don't.
A million for Pope if true is a good deal based on his perceived ability by many on here - he didn't consistently inspire confidence in us all.
Slade does not seem to have much say in the players we are selling.
Give Lookman, Watt and Teixeira leaving then unless Slade tells us to f*** off it leads me to think he is another yes man.
You can't seriously have believed JBG and Cousins were going to stay. The surprise is Pope but everyone has a price.
The names you quote are likely to go as well and Slade would realise that more than you or I. Reality is we are 3rd tier now and that limits appeal to existing and prospective players.
Of course not, I realise that players will go.
Call me green but it would be nice if we were looking to try and keep players rather than out at the earliest possible opportunity. At least try and give it till the January window then let them go if we are not in an agreed position in the table.
The Belgians have no ambition.
Spoke with Nick Pope at some length at last season's Sponsors' dinner and what a smashing young man he is....
Unless the couple of vinos I'd sipped in a ladylike fashion that evening clouded my judgement, I'd swear he had no intention of leaving us during the close season & was proud of his achievements in goal since he replaced Henders.
It follows, that as EA stated, no great attempt has been made by the cabal to persuade him to stay.
As always, the sniff of a "profit" means any relevant players are ushered out without a backwards glance.
Just as we are "customers", the players are commodities.
And whether we have an English manager or not, nothing will change this modus operandi.
Spot on
except that he didn't know at that point that a Premier League team would want him. Not easy to say no to a move that will set him up for the rest of his life.
Fair enough, but I'll wager he won't be overjoyed if the Burnley no 1 stays fit all season. Nick struck me as a lad that wants to play...
But, of course, he has his future to consider & money talks.
I dont see Lookman going anywhere... If he was going to leave then teams would have signed him by now (i.e. Young talent means teams cant dither else someone else will nip in and get him)... i.e. with Joe Gomez last summer there were rumours (substantial ones) from the moment we played against Bournemouth on the last day of the season
I think that Lookman will be going. Maybe a chance of a loan back to us.
Doubt it with our clowns in charge.
Any premier league side: How much for Lookman?
Katrien: We'd like 4m and a season long loan back.
Premier league side: We'll give you 1.5m, plus 250k if we win the champions league next year and another 250k if England win the 2018 world cup and you can't have him back on loan.
Fair enough, but I'll wager he won't be overjoyed if the Burnley no 1 stays fit all season. Nick struck me as a lad that wants to play...
But, of course, he has his future to consider & money talks.
He will probably be number 2 this season and when Burnley are relegated and sell Heaton, he will be number one in the championship
He's got a lot to prove, even at Championship level
Maybe, but put him in goal with a reasonably settled back four (that inspires a bit of confidence) and I'd expect him to be excellent over the course of the season - as he showed last season.
He was never as bad as some made out, and has real potential, in a decent side (which no longer seems to be us).
Much as it is tempting to portray this as another exclusive failing of the belgians, and whilst the fee we have allegedly received for Cousins is undeniable poor, we have sold players too easily and for too little for as long as I can remember.
There was a brief period when the club was at the peak of the Curbishley reign, and people like Rufus had stuck around for several seasons, when you felt like we could hang onto whoever we wanted. Then Parker left for a big, but still under priced, fee, at the worst possible time, and from then on whenever we've manged to sign or train up a player good enough for someone else to actually covert, we've let them go at pretty much the first time if asking.
To name a few off the top of my head, from the near 30 years I've been following the club, Williams, Lee, Minto, Bowyer, Mills, Parker, Reid, Elliot, Shelvey and Jenkinson have all left the club for supposedly brighter and better things without the club putting up much of a fight.
All of them, with the exception of Parker, were sold at times when the club was under varying degrees of financial stress and only Bowyer and Mills elicited an above market average fee. It's interesting that both of them were sold to Leeds who, themselves, at the time, we're not exactly renowned for driving a hard bargain.
Like it or not the club is under financial stress right now. Sales were always inevitable. Our bargaining position is weak. That is a recipe for less than ideal fees.
Cousins and JBG always seemed likely to depart. I had rather hoped, and almost expected, Pope would stay. To be honest, I am surprised Burnley are interested. Pope has potential, but, as solid as he looked for the last month or two of the season, he had looked very shaky on a number of earlier appearances. I expected anyone interested may wait a season to see if his development continued or stalled but Burnley, who unfortunately are a bigger fish these days, have decided to take a punt and offered a fair fee for what he is currently. The club can't control from where and for whom we receive bids and if the player wants to leave, they should be allowed to. They are people, not commodities, after all.
Could we get better fees? Maybe. Have we tended to in non-Belgian eras? Probably not. Will the money be used to balance the books, build a squad, or both? I don't know, but we won't be able to judge until the transfer window closes.
I'm sure, however, that with Slade and Head now at the club, we have the best chance, since Roland took ownership, of smartly spending our transfer budget, whatever it may be. We must continue to hope and pressurise the club to allow them to do so and back them for success.
Did some of you actually think Pope, JGB and Cousins (possibly still others) would want to play in the third tier of English football if they had prem teams/championship challengers bidding for them?
Did some of you actually think Pope, JGB and Cousins (possibly still others) would want to play in the third tier of English football if they had prem teams/championship challengers bidding for them?
Please get real ffs.
No I didn't expect them to stay and expect more to go. However it is reasonable to ask that if they expected Pope to go and are happy to let Hendo go too then why let Dmitrovic move on? The way they are going about their transfer business smacks of stupidity without any semblance of a clear strategy. Also, taking JBG as an example, they had at least three Clubs interested but instead of playing a waiting game and calling their bluff they take the first offer that comes near what they are after whereas waiting could generate a better fee. They have no idea how to negotiate, other clubs know this, and are taking them for a ride. Ultimately whether JBG goes for 1m or 5m matters not to us as it won't be reinvested in the team and will go to line Roland's pockets but it constantly ridicules them and us.
I dont see Lookman going anywhere... If he was going to leave then teams would have signed him by now (i.e. Young talent means teams cant dither else someone else will nip in and get him)... i.e. with Joe Gomez last summer there were rumours (substantial ones) from the moment we played against Bournemouth on the last day of the season
I think that Lookman will be going. Maybe a chance of a loan back to us.
Now we're league one, perhaps the buying club will prefer to send him back to a championship club.
I want to be optimistic and say we have a keeper lined up......we all know that this isn't the case
Sam Walker from Colchester is what I've heard, But how true that is I don't know.
A club like Charlton can't stop a young player like Pope moving to the prem sorry it's not going to happen but what we can do is get a decent fee and it looks like we have again with a sell on clause
Of course you can. You just reject the offer and tell him to get on with it.
Like Scott Parker ??
Scot Parker was proven at the top level and on decent wages and so was in a much stronger position. Pope isn't proven and isn't on big wages.
It's easier to keep Pope because he isn't on big wages and is being offered a massive pay increase (presumably)? No, don't see the logic in that.
Really??? Yes we are mid fire sale but Wimbledon, Shrewsbury, Oldham can only dream of players like solly, Holmes, Novak etc. Yes it's disappointing but players will come in. Promotion, no! Relegation, no. Upper mid table, yes
Yes, really. We're in the middle of a fire sale and there'll be others gone by the end of the window. Tex, Bauer, Lookman, Watt will all go, I reckon and replaced with ??? We'll have a small squad and when injuries bite and with no emergency loans, it all points to one thing ... Disaster. I'm usually a glass half full person but as @oohaahmortimer would say Promotion 0% Mid table 50% Relegation 50%
Breaking news: @oohaahmortimer sues for copyright infringement.
Really??? Yes we are mid fire sale but Wimbledon, Shrewsbury, Oldham can only dream of players like solly, Holmes, Novak etc. Yes it's disappointing but players will come in. Promotion, no! Relegation, no. Upper mid table, yes
Yes, really. We're in the middle of a fire sale and there'll be others gone by the end of the window. Tex, Bauer, Lookman, Watt will all go, I reckon and replaced with ??? We'll have a small squad and when injuries bite and with no emergency loans, it all points to one thing ... Disaster. I'm usually a glass half full person but as @oohaahmortimer would say Promotion 0% Mid table 50% Relegation 50%
Breaking news: @oohaahmortimer sues for copyright infringement.
Ooh aah also goes into a very considered and carefully developed formula that no one will ever decipher. He doesn't just throw numbers out there like this. This needs some work
Comments
Unless the couple of vinos I'd sipped in a ladylike fashion that evening clouded my judgement, I'd swear he had no intention of leaving us during the close season & was proud of his achievements in goal since he replaced Henders.
It follows, that as EA stated, no great attempt has been made by the cabal to persuade him to stay.
As always, the sniff of a "profit" means any relevant players are ushered out without a backwards glance.
Just as we are "customers", the players are commodities.
And whether we have an English manager or not, nothing will change this modus operandi.
But, of course, he has his future to consider & money talks.
Fair enough, but I'll wager he won't be overjoyed if the Burnley no 1 stays fit all season. Nick struck me as a lad that wants to play...
But, of course, he has his future to consider & money talks.
He will probably be number 2 this season and when Burnley are relegated and sell Heaton, he will be number one in the championship
Doubt it with our clowns in charge.
Any premier league side: How much for Lookman?
Katrien: We'd like 4m and a season long loan back.
Premier league side: We'll give you 1.5m, plus 250k if we win the champions league next year and another 250k if England win the 2018 world cup and you can't have him back on loan.
Katrien: Deal.
But, of course, he has his future to consider & money talks.
He will probably be number 2 this season and when Burnley are relegated and sell Heaton, he will be number one in the championship
He's got a lot to prove, even at Championship level
He's got a lot to prove, even at Championship level
Maybe, but put him in goal with a reasonably settled back four (that inspires a bit of confidence) and I'd expect him to be excellent over the course of the season - as he showed last season.
He was never as bad as some made out, and has real potential, in a decent side (which no longer seems to be us).
There was a brief period when the club was at the peak of the Curbishley reign, and people like Rufus had stuck around for several seasons, when you felt like we could hang onto whoever we wanted. Then Parker left for a big, but still under priced, fee, at the worst possible time, and from then on whenever we've manged to sign or train up a player good enough for someone else to actually covert, we've let them go at pretty much the first time if asking.
To name a few off the top of my head, from the near 30 years I've been following the club, Williams, Lee, Minto, Bowyer, Mills, Parker, Reid, Elliot, Shelvey and Jenkinson have all left the club for supposedly brighter and better things without the club putting up much of a fight.
All of them, with the exception of Parker, were sold at times when the club was under varying degrees of financial stress and only Bowyer and Mills elicited an above market average fee. It's interesting that both of them were sold to Leeds who, themselves, at the time, we're not exactly renowned for driving a hard bargain.
Like it or not the club is under financial stress right now. Sales were always inevitable. Our bargaining position is weak. That is a recipe for less than ideal fees.
Cousins and JBG always seemed likely to depart. I had rather hoped, and almost expected, Pope would stay. To be honest, I am surprised Burnley are interested. Pope has potential, but, as solid as he looked for the last month or two of the season, he had looked very shaky on a number of earlier appearances. I expected anyone interested may wait a season to see if his development continued or stalled but Burnley, who unfortunately are a bigger fish these days, have decided to take a punt and offered a fair fee for what he is currently. The club can't control from where and for whom we receive bids and if the player wants to leave, they should be allowed to. They are people, not commodities, after all.
Could we get better fees? Maybe. Have we tended to in non-Belgian eras? Probably not. Will the money be used to balance the books, build a squad, or both? I don't know, but we won't be able to judge until the transfer window closes.
I'm sure, however, that with Slade and Head now at the club, we have the best chance, since Roland took ownership, of smartly spending our transfer budget, whatever it may be. We must continue to hope and pressurise the club to allow them to do so and back them for success.
Did some of you actually think Pope, JGB and Cousins (possibly still others) would want to play in the third tier of English football if they had prem teams/championship challengers bidding for them?
Please get real ffs.