Wales have scored three goals not entirely scored by skill alone. We are yet to get the same luck and when we do score a handful we will have earned it.
For the record England had 5 shots on target last night, Wales had 12 shots on target.
We can smash Hungary/Iceland/Austria all we want in ro16. It's France in the quarters and I do not fancy us.
How good does the other half of the draw look now with Spain going into our one? Criminal that we aren't in it. We would have a clear route to the final!
Hope Roy proves me wrong and we somehow turn over France, can't see it though.
Big, big opportunity missed yesterday, which has become even more apparent due to that Croatia win.
The thing is though, that we are now in the knock-out phase, anything can happen.
France are now facing either Northern Island, Turkey or Sweden/Ireland. With the possible exception of NI, any of those teams are capable of dragging the game into extra time,and then the lottery of penalties.
In all my thirty odd years of watching tournaments, the main thing that I have learnt is that you should never look too far ahead! Just look at Spain tonight, mentally they had checked into the last 16 and totally overlooked the danger posed by a very good Croatia side.
Result? They are now facing a very prickly Italian team, and their entire tournament has been turned upside down!
Can't blame Slovakia, but parking 11 behind the ball for a 0-0 to secure 3rd in a four-team group isn't what tournament football should be.
Yes and even worse, today N Ireland celebrating a one nil defeat. The format has made a joke of the group stages. I just hope it picks up in the knockout phase.
Agreed I preferred the Euro's when it was just eight teams, all of whom had won their very tough qualifying group.
Top two of both groups went through to the semi's, and that meant that there were proper ding dong battles from the opening round, and none of this playing for third place nonsense.
The reality is that there was nothing more England could have done against the Slovaks, they tried every possible means of scoring but could not break them down - it happens to the best sides, even the world champion Germans could not break down the pretty ordinary Poles.
England played as well as they could have done, they controlled the entire game and passed the ball around but they just did not get that break of the ball which Wales got against the same opponents.
There were occasions last night when a Slovak midfielder would win the ball, cross the halfway line and then having passed the ball on immediately retreated back into his own half! On the very rare occasions they entered our half they would push no more than four players forward and you'd struggle to find a single moment when they had more than one player in our box.
Compare last night against the utter farce which Capello oversaw when we drew 0-0 with the might of Algeria in SA 2010 World Cup and barely created a chance and had no tactics apart from belting long balls at our front players, the USA and Slovenia games were not much better.
We won't be that unlucky again and, as others have said, when better teams come out against us we will be better suited to playing them on the break and with some space in behind which we can exploit.
I have seen nothing to be scared of from any other team so far, the only team that worries me are Italy because they just don't look like ever conceding a bloody goal.
You have to evolve the team through the competition and react to what you see, but six changes was either a little arrogant or a little stupid or both! I suppose Woy could say that if he needs to call on a player, they are likely to be more ready if they have had a taste of the Euros. Personally, I think that is rubbish, as they have all played international games before. Maybe Woy was worried about injuries - there is always a chance of it.
I think England can win this competition, which is a credit to Woy, but he can be a real idiot too. Oh well, what can you do but buckle yourself in for the ride and hope it is a long one!
Anything can happen, yes the top half of the draw is obviously weaker on paper and France in the quarters (if we get there) will be difficult. However, there's huge pressure and expectation on them as the home nation and they struggled against both Romania and Albania, needing late goals to beat both sides.
I should imagine if we had won the group and got to the final by beating lesser nations, Hodgson would still get slaughtered because we didn't beat a top team.
It's all a bit boring really. Fickle really is a world to be used for England fans.
From what I have seen so far, there isn't a stand out team, and we have probably played some of the best football. It might just be me but I'm not in the slightest bit worried that we "could" play France, Germany or Spain. Get the goal scoring sorted and we stand a good chance. I'm just glad the group games are nearing the end of what is a really shit format.
I read somewhere that Wales have a great chance of leaching the latter stages...an injury to Bale and they have Simon Church in the team.
The group stage is all about getting through it, which is something we have struggled to do at tournaments in the past. So job done.
To be honest, I didn't realise that so many people - at least judging from this thread - had such high expectations from us in the first place.
Did people expect us to be winning all our games by two or three goals or something? If so, why?
Before it started I thought we'd win one and draw two of our group games, I just got the order wrong.
No high expectations from me. I'Ve always predicted when asked that we will get out of this group and no further. I think the constant turnover of England coaches at the behest of the media is ridiculous, it has not changed anything since 1996, and never will on its own.
Of course I get that it is difficult to "play" against a team that set up like Slovakia. And the Czechs are pretty damn critical of their own team. They know what happens if you just set up to defend deep against a team of good footballers such as Spain. You lose. What they were laughing at, and what was embarrassing, was our apparent inability to maintain the most elementary football skills. Like trapping the sodding thing.
Maybe it was the beer. Staropramen unfiltered. Feeling well rough today.
Wonder if they're still laughing this morning having watched their own team finish bottom of the group without winning a game!
I'm glad we have avoided Croatia - there are lots of ways of looking at it. We are in the tougher half on paper, but if today's results go well - our path within that is probably Hungary then France. I wouldn't say that is too bad. You have to expect to play a decent team in the Semis. I think there are worse paths - look at Italy's (and they won their group) - Spain then probably Germany then proabably us or France!
Can't blame Slovakia, but parking 11 behind the ball for a 0-0 to secure 3rd in a four-team group isn't what tournament football should be.
Yes and even worse, today N Ireland celebrating a one nil defeat. The format has made a joke of the group stages. I just hope it picks up in the knockout phase.
As much as I'm pleased for the Northern Ireland team and fans, it did grate a bit when I heard the reporter yesterday saying how they'd "hung on for a 1-0 defeat".
Hung on for a defeat? That's just not right.
But hey, the tournament gets extended, there are more games so that means more money going into greedy little mitts. Ah yes, So the whole thing may have been devalued in the process - but it's more money. What's not to like? (if you're running the thing)
Can't blame Slovakia, but parking 11 behind the ball for a 0-0 to secure 3rd in a four-team group isn't what tournament football should be.
Yes and even worse, today N Ireland celebrating a one nil defeat. The format has made a joke of the group stages. I just hope it picks up in the knockout phase.
As much as I'm pleased for the Northern Ireland team and fans, it did grate a bit when I heard the reporter yesterday saying how they'd "hung on for a 1-0 defeat".
Hung on for a defeat? That's just not right.
But hey, the tournament gets extended, there are more games so that means more money going into greedy little mitts. Ah yes, So the whole thing may have been devalued in the process - but it's more money. What's not to like? (if you're running the thing)
I dream of the days where Charlton hang on for a 1-0 defeat.
I'm glad we have avoided Croatia - there are lots of ways of looking at it. We are in the tougher half on paper, but if today's results go well - our path within that is probably Hungary then France. I wouldn't say that is too bad. You have to expect to play a decent team in the Semis. I think there are worse paths - look at Italy's (and they won their group) - Spain then probably Germany then proabably us or France!
Hungary is a match that would see Hodgson's head if we lost. France too is a very winnable game seeing they've struggled like England
Germany / Spain / Italy is where it'll be tough in the Semi-Finals yet lose there and we cant complain as it'll be our best result in 20-years, and yes it is a joke that we're celebrating getting to a Semi-Finals but seeing we were moaning about our last World Cup appearance then its worth celebrating because its a huge step in the right direction.
Winning our group avoided Portugal and gave us the easiest route to the final. We wouldn't have needed to rely on other group results. Roy has failed by not achieving that. Our football has been better than the World Cup, but we're in the easiest group in the competition.
His failure to know his best side, take players in form or fit enough to play ninety minutes along with taking just three centre halves could cost us dear.
If you don't take your chances you will go home. Simple.
I'm glad we have avoided Croatia - there are lots of ways of looking at it. We are in the tougher half on paper, but if today's results go well - our path within that is probably Hungary then France. I wouldn't say that is too bad. You have to expect to play a decent team in the Semis. I think there are worse paths - look at Italy's (and they won their group) - Spain then probably Germany then proabably us or France!
Hungary is a match that would see Hodgson's head if we lost. France too is a very winnable game seeing they've struggled like England
Germany / Spain / Italy is where it'll be tough in the Semi-Finals yet lose there and we cant complain as it'll be our best result in 20-years, and yes it is a joke that we're celebrating getting to a Semi-Finals but seeing we were moaning about our last World Cup appearance then its worth celebrating because its a huge step in the right direction.
Woah there! Time out for a minute.
Who exactly is celebrating getting to the semi-finals? Haven't we got a game or two to play first?
I'm glad we have avoided Croatia - there are lots of ways of looking at it. We are in the tougher half on paper, but if today's results go well - our path within that is probably Hungary then France. I wouldn't say that is too bad. You have to expect to play a decent team in the Semis. I think there are worse paths - look at Italy's (and they won their group) - Spain then probably Germany then proabably us or France!
Hungary is a match that would see Hodgson's head if we lost. France too is a very winnable game seeing they've struggled like England
Germany / Spain / Italy is where it'll be tough in the Semi-Finals yet lose there and we cant complain as it'll be our best result in 20-years, and yes it is a joke that we're celebrating getting to a Semi-Finals but seeing we were moaning about our last World Cup appearance then its worth celebrating because its a huge step in the right direction.
Woah there! Time out for a minute.
Who exactly is celebrating getting to the semi-finals? Haven't we got a game or two to play first?
I'm not celebrating getting to the Semi-Finals as know we've got a game to play first.
I just think that the best we can hope for is a win against Hungary in the 2nd Round and then a narrow win against France in the Quarter-Finals, regardless of whether we get to the Semi-Finals or not I dont think we'll go further.
Every side we have played has sat so deep it's embarrassing
We are creating chances
We are retaining possession
It doesn't matter who we play next, in fact I'd rather we play sides with more pedigree as at the very least if we lose half the country won't be bleating and crying about being knocked out by a side like Hungary or Northern Ireland.
From what I've seen so far I'd have loved Spain, they are not the side they were
Every side we have played has sat so deep it's embarrassing
We are creating chances
We are retaining possession
It doesn't matter who we play next, in fact I'd rather we play sides with more pedigree as at the very least if we lose half the country won't be bleating and crying about being knocked out by a side like Hungary or Northern Ireland.
From what I've seen so far I'd have loved Spain, they are not the side they were
What made Spain terrifying was the fact that they could pass the ball around you yet at the same time if they wanted they could thread the ball through to Villa or Torres, meaning that with their pace once they were clear on goal it was curtains.
They dont have that in their locker now and provided players remain in the correct positions, Spain cant break you down.
Every side we have played has sat so deep it's embarrassing
We are creating chances
We are retaining possession
It doesn't matter who we play next, in fact I'd rather we play sides with more pedigree as at the very least if we lose half the country won't be bleating and crying about being knocked out by a side like Hungary or Northern Ireland.
From what I've seen so far I'd have loved Spain, they are not the side they were
We haven't lost - true Every side has sat deep - true We are creating chances - true but we should be creating more to be fair given our dominance We are retaining possession - Yes, thanks to point 2.
The group stage is all about getting through it, which is something we have struggled to do at tournaments in the past. So job done.
To be honest, I didn't realise that so many people - at least judging from this thread - had such high expectations from us in the first place.
Did people expect us to be winning all our games by two or three goals or something? If so, why?
Before it started I thought we'd win one and draw two of our group games, I just got the order wrong.
No high expectations from me. I'Ve always predicted when asked that we will get out of this group and no further. I think the constant turnover of England coaches at the behest of the media is ridiculous, it has not changed anything since 1996, and never will on its own.
Of course I get that it is difficult to "play" against a team that set up like Slovakia. And the Czechs are pretty damn critical of their own team. They know what happens if you just set up to defend deep against a team of good footballers such as Spain. You lose. What they were laughing at, and what was embarrassing, was our apparent inability to maintain the most elementary football skills. Like trapping the sodding thing.
Maybe it was the beer. Staropramen unfiltered. Feeling well rough today.
Wonder if they're still laughing this morning having watched their own team finish bottom of the group without winning a game!
Sure, but the answer of my Czech friends (that group in the pub were just random strangers) is that their national team is never bigged up that much in the first place. Their highly successful 96 and 04 teams (both of whom got further than England) are considered to be legendary, while this team was considered to have done a good job just to get to the Euros - the Dutch were in their group don't forget. With a country of this size, it is more difficult to guarantee a supply line of world class talent in each generation. The 96 team had the emerging talents of Nedved, Berger and Poborsky, and of course the peerless Nedved went on to lead the 04 team, and had he not got injured in the first half against Greece, might have led them to the title. That team had Baros and Rosicky as well as Koller and Jankulovski. And of course a young Petr Cech
This team has no one fit to tie Nedved's bootlaces but everyone knows that. Two of their starters (Pudil and Skalak) play in the Championship.
I just feel that with six times the population, and all that money in English football, we should ask ourselves how it is possible that over the last 20 years, the Czechs (and other modest countries) have outperformed England in terms of Euro and World Cup results. Maybe that is roughly what was in the mind of those guys in the pub.
The group stage is all about getting through it, which is something we have struggled to do at tournaments in the past. So job done.
To be honest, I didn't realise that so many people - at least judging from this thread - had such high expectations from us in the first place.
Did people expect us to be winning all our games by two or three goals or something? If so, why?
Before it started I thought we'd win one and draw two of our group games, I just got the order wrong.
No high expectations from me. I'Ve always predicted when asked that we will get out of this group and no further. I think the constant turnover of England coaches at the behest of the media is ridiculous, it has not changed anything since 1996, and never will on its own.
Of course I get that it is difficult to "play" against a team that set up like Slovakia. And the Czechs are pretty damn critical of their own team. They know what happens if you just set up to defend deep against a team of good footballers such as Spain. You lose. What they were laughing at, and what was embarrassing, was our apparent inability to maintain the most elementary football skills. Like trapping the sodding thing.
Maybe it was the beer. Staropramen unfiltered. Feeling well rough today.
Wonder if they're still laughing this morning having watched their own team finish bottom of the group without winning a game!
I just feel that with six times the population, and all that money in English football, we should ask ourselves how it is possible that over the last 20 years, the Czechs (and other modest countries) have outperformed England in terms of Euro and World Cup results.
What does this say for Russia and their population that is roughly twice the size of the next biggest european country?
How have Holland made in to the final of 3 world cups, been European champions and made 2-3 other semi finals despite a population of less than 20 million?
I will turn the question back on the last two posters.
How do you account for the England team's performance since 1996? Are you happy with it? If not, what accounts for it? And what should be done about it?
Comments
How good does the other half of the draw look now with Spain going into our one? Criminal that we aren't in it. We would have a clear route to the final!
Hope Roy proves me wrong and we somehow turn over France, can't see it though.
Big, big opportunity missed yesterday, which has become even more apparent due to that Croatia win.
France are now facing either Northern Island, Turkey or Sweden/Ireland. With the possible exception of NI, any of those teams are capable of dragging the game into extra time,and then the lottery of penalties.
In all my thirty odd years of watching tournaments, the main thing that I have learnt is that you should never look too far ahead! Just look at Spain tonight, mentally they had checked into the last 16 and totally overlooked the danger posed by a very good Croatia side.
Result? They are now facing a very prickly Italian team, and their entire tournament has been turned upside down!
Top two of both groups went through to the semi's, and that meant that there were proper ding dong battles from the opening round, and none of this playing for third place nonsense.
England played as well as they could have done, they controlled the entire game and passed the ball around but they just did not get that break of the ball which Wales got against the same opponents.
There were occasions last night when a Slovak midfielder would win the ball, cross the halfway line and then having passed the ball on immediately retreated back into his own half! On the very rare occasions they entered our half they would push no more than four players forward and you'd struggle to find a single moment when they had more than one player in our box.
Compare last night against the utter farce which Capello oversaw when we drew 0-0 with the might of Algeria in SA 2010 World Cup and barely created a chance and had no tactics apart from belting long balls at our front players, the USA and Slovenia games were not much better.
We won't be that unlucky again and, as others have said, when better teams come out against us we will be better suited to playing them on the break and with some space in behind which we can exploit.
I have seen nothing to be scared of from any other team so far, the only team that worries me are Italy because they just don't look like ever conceding a bloody goal.
I think England can win this competition, which is a credit to Woy, but he can be a real idiot too. Oh well, what can you do but buckle yourself in for the ride and hope it is a long one!
It's all a bit boring really. Fickle really is a world to be used for England fans.
From what I have seen so far, there isn't a stand out team, and we have probably played some of the best football. It might just be me but I'm not in the slightest bit worried that we "could" play France, Germany or Spain. Get the goal scoring sorted and we stand a good chance. I'm just glad the group games are nearing the end of what is a really shit format.
I read somewhere that Wales have a great chance of leaching the latter stages...an injury to Bale and they have Simon Church in the team.
Are you Richard Murray by any chance?
Hung on for a defeat? That's just not right.
But hey, the tournament gets extended, there are more games so that means more money going into greedy little mitts. Ah yes, So the whole thing may have been devalued in the process - but it's more money. What's not to like? (if you're running the thing)
France too is a very winnable game seeing they've struggled like England
Germany / Spain / Italy is where it'll be tough in the Semi-Finals yet lose there and we cant complain as it'll be our best result in 20-years, and yes it is a joke that we're celebrating getting to a Semi-Finals but seeing we were moaning about our last World Cup appearance then its worth celebrating because its a huge step in the right direction.
His failure to know his best side, take players in form or fit enough to play ninety minutes along with taking just three centre halves could cost us dear.
If you don't take your chances you will go home. Simple.
Who exactly is celebrating getting to the semi-finals? Haven't we got a game or two to play first?
I just think that the best we can hope for is a win against Hungary in the 2nd Round and then a narrow win against France in the Quarter-Finals, regardless of whether we get to the Semi-Finals or not I dont think we'll go further.
Every side we have played has sat so deep it's embarrassing
We are creating chances
We are retaining possession
It doesn't matter who we play next, in fact I'd rather we play sides with more pedigree as at the very least if we lose half the country won't be bleating and crying about being knocked out by a side like Hungary or Northern Ireland.
From what I've seen so far I'd have loved Spain, they are not the side they were
They dont have that in their locker now and provided players remain in the correct positions, Spain cant break you down.
Every side has sat deep - true
We are creating chances - true but we should be creating more to be fair given our dominance
We are retaining possession - Yes, thanks to point 2.
This team has no one fit to tie Nedved's bootlaces but everyone knows that. Two of their starters (Pudil and Skalak) play in the Championship.
I just feel that with six times the population, and all that money in English football, we should ask ourselves how it is possible that over the last 20 years, the Czechs (and other modest countries) have outperformed England in terms of Euro and World Cup results. Maybe that is roughly what was in the mind of those guys in the pub.
Why are Great Britain usually fourth in the Olympics or why are we constantly rivaling Australia in Rugby and Cricket.
What does this say for Russia and their population that is roughly twice the size of the next biggest european country?
How have Holland made in to the final of 3 world cups, been European champions and made 2-3 other semi finals despite a population of less than 20 million?
How do you account for the England team's performance since 1996? Are you happy with it? If not, what accounts for it? And what should be done about it?