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Charlton v Bolton - Post Match Views

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  • I'd like to see Holmes and Lookman start together but given they do similar things, im not sure how that formation would look.

    I thought Holmes was very effective in a central role, and less so out wide when Lookman came on.

    I don't know either of them well enough to say. Any thoughts?

    Neil - I think we could play one on the right and one on the left, interchanging periodically, in an attacking 4-4-2 formation. We could also play them as wingers in a 4-3-3 set up. Both set ups would ideally have a stronger, more mobile central midfielder (in the Jordan Cousins mould) behind them, alongside a holding player like Diarra/Kashi/Crofts/Jacko/Foley.
  • Other than your inclusion of Foley, and I can't see him being worth anything other than a bench seat at best, I see what you are saying.

    Today I thought both Lookman and Holmes looked much more dangerous operating through the middle with the ability to go both ways.

    My worry with playing both out wider in a 4-4-2 is firstly that there is naff all in the middle then (hope this can be sorted before Thursday 31 at 11pm), and secondly that you blunt half of the attacking ability of your two best creators.

    Holmes I think is better in that just behind the strikers role. If you could play a 4-3-1-2 that would get the best from him. But that leaves Lookman as part of the 3 and I can't see that being good for him.

    Maybe a 4-4-2 diamond where they swap the point person in midfield between them. That's a very hard sounding thing to get to work but could be completely unplayable against if it clicks.
  • edited August 2016

    Other than your inclusion of Foley, and I can't see him being worth anything other than a bench seat at best, I see what you are saying.

    Today I thought both Lookman and Holmes looked much more dangerous operating through the middle with the ability to go both ways.

    My worry with playing both out wider in a 4-4-2 is firstly that there is naff all in the middle then (hope this can be sorted before Thursday 31 at 11pm), and secondly that you blunt half of the attacking ability of your two best creators.

    Holmes I think is better in that just behind the strikers role. If you could play a 4-3-1-2 that would get the best from him. But that leaves Lookman as part of the 3 and I can't see that being good for him.

    Maybe a 4-4-2 diamond where they swap the point person in midfield between them. That's a very hard sounding thing to get to work but could be completely unplayable against if it clicks.

    Try Wednesday 31st
  • Ajose will not look good until we get a ball player in the team like Stephens was ,but we played well and deserved at least a draw clem snide don't know wot game you were at today but you chat shit boi.
  • Bollocks, I thought it was Wednesday but copied it without thinking from some other wrong idiot.
  • I am in son just got to get out now #sunburn

    Now put a vine up of the goals
  • Apart for the one defensive error we were the better team. Still happy with the point, against a team that will be up there. Bring on the Spanners in October.
  • Other than your inclusion of Foley, and I can't see him being worth anything other than a bench seat at best, I see what you are saying.

    Today I thought both Lookman and Holmes looked much more dangerous operating through the middle with the ability to go both ways.

    My worry with playing both out wider in a 4-4-2 is firstly that there is naff all in the middle then (hope this can be sorted before Thursday 31 at 11pm), and secondly that you blunt half of the attacking ability of your two best creators.

    Holmes I think is better in that just behind the strikers role. If you could play a 4-3-1-2 that would get the best from him. But that leaves Lookman as part of the 3 and I can't see that being good for him.

    Maybe a 4-4-2 diamond where they swap the point person in midfield between them. That's a very hard sounding thing to get to work but could be completely unplayable against if it clicks.

    Or maybe play a 3-5-2 if Tex is back?

    Actually think are defence are good. The problem is with midfield and packing it is one way to go.

    Overall though I think has called it well so far so happy to leave it with him.
  • PWR

    Neither goalkeeper was over exercised on a warm afternoon. We probably had slightly more off target efforts than they did but on the few occasions when they threatened our goal they looked more effective. Chris Solly clearing off the line onto the join of the post and bar before scrambling away was the best example.

    Overall a tight game with the teams largely cancelling each other out so the draw was probably the right result on the day.

    Hope JJ is ok. Disconcerting to see him subbed after 22 minutes or whatever it was. That said what a revelation Solly was in midfield! He really drove us on and, along with his goaline clearance mentioned above, can probably take the most credit for keeping our heads up sufficiently to battle our way back into it once we conceded.

    Let's hope and pray we haven't seen the last of Lookman. At this level the lad makes a real difference when he comes on and we desperately need that and more.

    On a personal note great to attend with my lovely daughter @Len\'s_little_girl today on a glorious sunny day and enjoy a pre match pint in the Long Pond with mine host @Riviera and an old mate from way back when whom happened to wander in while we were there.
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  • edited August 2016
    We missed several glorious chances in the first half: Ajose hammered at the keeper from six yards out - and seconds before the break Pearce, unchallenged, headed wide. There was fancy embellishment in our moves around the edge of the box - and no killer blow.

    Key players had nightmare performances. Magennis is exactly right for us: strong and willing, he wins headers and is quick across the turf. Yet, his close control was absent today. Holmes is the best player in our squad, brimming with forward ambition, yet an attempt to replicate his goal against Shrewsbury direct from a corner sailed over both teams and plopped behind for a goal kick. He should be more considerate: his corner in the second half that arrowed directly out of play before even reaching Bolton's near post gave us ghastly flashbacks of Danny Green.

    We sagged alarmingly in the second half, Charlton in familiar default. Sideways balls tapped along the half-way line when 0-1 down: is this incompetence, or fear, or both? Defenders clearing to our vacant midfield: possession wasted. Men up front apparently frozen, without the wit to solicit killer passes with movement in dangerous space. A classic example: Holmes was set free by our keeper, ran with the ball for 50 yards, was besieged by four defenders - and his team-mates were 30 yards away, unable to help.

    Bolton have an admirable physical strength common to most teams that beat us last season. The BBC stats confirm Bolton had only one shot on target in the entire 90 minutes today. We should have put those glorious first-half chances in the hexagonal onion-bag.


  • Surprised that people have given Holmes a 7 or above in the player ratings. Holmes' first half performance, was definitely 7, second half was a 5. I like Holmes a lot, but I do think he keeps the ball longer than he needs to do. Also surprised that Bauer, is getting 7's from people. It was Bauer's fault we conceded, Proctor outmuscled and outsmarted him, it was poor defending.

    Who needs Kante when you have Solly. I presume Slade was trying to send a message to the board today, with his subs and on pitch rotation, 3 centre backs on the bench, and that doesn't even include Tex. We definitely need some more depth in our squad.

  • edited August 2016

    thenewbie said:

    jamescafc said:

    Slade needs to explain why he did not replace Jacko with Lookman.

    Does he? we seemed on top for most of the game and while we went a goal down, bringing him on against tired legs looked like a pretty good call.
    A player with Lookman's quality will produce against whoever he plays against at this level. We do not need to wait until the opposition are tired for him to make an impact!
    Yeah we do. Not for his sake, for the rest of the teams'. If we have both Lookman and Holmes start the game and for whatever reason they don't have the best of games and we need to change it up, we have to turn to... no-one. There's literally nothing else we can do except hope they play well.

    Start with one and if he's not cutting it or gets tired out, then bring the other on and at the very worst we've swapped one attacking threat for another instead of our attacking threat being replaced by some creaky defensively minded crab.
    Surely that means we need more overall quality in the squad? We can't keep one of our best players on the bench in case we need a plan b. We need a strong first team with players on the bench that offer something different or are capable of making an impact when things aren't going our way.
    Agreed. Lookman is basically our best player. It is stupid tactics not to start him! As is saying you can only play one of your two best players!!!!
  • Vine the effing goals
  • redman said:

    The reason we didn't win this game is simple. Meire and Roland. Thin and unblanced squad. 3 not CH's on bench so when JJ gets injured we have no midfield option. This means we then then weaken midfield ( although Solly did Okj he id not a midfielder), weakeneded RB ( Konsa not a Solly at RB) and weakened CH ( Bauer fully fit ok but even then not in Konsa's class).
    Could be encouraged. But only if we but in 2 midfielders in next 3 days. If we get 2 decent ones we may challenge top 2, otherwise will be struggling to get near top 6.

    When you are compromising like this so early in the season it is worrying. Lack of squad depth did for us last season and it will stop us achieving anything this!
  • Taxi_Lad said:

    I don't get the whole "downer ' most on here have for Foley. I agree he is too similar to Crofts to both be playing CM but that's not his fault. Most of what he does, he does well. Always available to receive the ball, always got his head up and looking to move the ball on quickly. I've seen a lot worse in the red shirt over the years!

    Foley was hugely pedestrian today when I saw him. He has virtually no pace at all and when he in the first half just in front of me he looked like he was going backwards.

    Now II don't say that lightly, on one occasion, I reckon the recently slug/snail pelleted snails in my garden might have done him for pace.
  • dallas said:

    to many centre halfs on the bench

    THIS.

    Squad still too thin & almost as bad as last season, not enough quality on the bench and showed when JJ had to be replaced by a defender who hasn't played a league game for a year.

    not enough quality in midfield - Foley & crofts should be back
    up players who play 15/20 times in a season for the odd 10 mins here & there...not 90 mins every week.
  • edited August 2016
    Tutt-Tutt said:

    A few observations.

    Both teams were in a 4-4-2 diamond and cancelled each other out during the first half. We have a structure and pattern of play now, with some good passing build-up play through the thirds. I can see what Brussell has been working on in training and we should have been at this stage on the opening day, not five games in.

    Glad this is finally being worked on, this was my biggest concern and frustration coming out of pre-season, especially because our midfield today, JJ, Foley, Holmes, Crofts played most of pre-season together. We seemed to have no idea about how to build up and attack teams. I still wonder where the cutting edge will come from--hope a couple players to be brought in.
    Tutt-Tutt said:

    The second substitution on the hour should have been Lookman for Konsa, with Solly reverting to right back. I can't believe we did not put Holmes or Lookman up against Moxey the left back, who was struggling in the first half and on an early yellow card. Instead both Holmes and Lookman operated through the middle or drifted to the other flank against a well organised defence and retreating four man midfield blocking up the central areas.

    This was brought up briefly in commentary but it seemed so obvious. It sounded as though Moxey was really struggling and for the last 20-30 minutes we had two players more than capable of taking on a fullback and drawing a silly foul.
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  • Redrobo said:

    Other than your inclusion of Foley, and I can't see him being worth anything other than a bench seat at best, I see what you are saying.

    Today I thought both Lookman and Holmes looked much more dangerous operating through the middle with the ability to go both ways.

    My worry with playing both out wider in a 4-4-2 is firstly that there is naff all in the middle then (hope this can be sorted before Thursday 31 at 11pm), and secondly that you blunt half of the attacking ability of your two best creators.

    Holmes I think is better in that just behind the strikers role. If you could play a 4-3-1-2 that would get the best from him. But that leaves Lookman as part of the 3 and I can't see that being good for him.

    Maybe a 4-4-2 diamond where they swap the point person in midfield between them. That's a very hard sounding thing to get to work but could be completely unplayable against if it clicks.

    Or maybe play a 3-5-2 if Tex is back?

    Actually think are defence are good. The problem is with midfield and packing it is one way to go.

    Overall though I think has called it well so far so happy to leave it with him.
    I've thought this for a while, we have four good center halves now. The problem with selling THD is that we lost our only wingback, and the only player capable of providing natural width and a left foot on the left. Fox and Solly as wingbacks wouldn't work too well in my opinion.
  • edited August 2016
    Tutt-Tutt said:

    A few observations.

    Both teams were in a 4-4-2 diamond and cancelled each other out during the first half. We have a structure and pattern of play now, with some good passing build-up play through the thirds. I can see what Brussell has been working on in training and we should have been at this stage on the opening day, not five games in.

    The first substitution caused by Jacko's injury upset the balance of the team. Konsa is not confident enough to get up and down the right flank and with Solly switching into the diamond, we had no width on the right. Konsa is a good talented defender, but he isn't a Joe Gomez yet.

    Parky won the half-time, by sending Bolton out to start quickly and attack the inexperienced right back and that's where the goal came from. Konsa was caught out of position.

    The second substitution on the hour should have been Lookman for Konsa, with Solly reverting to right back. I can't believe we did not put Holmes or Lookman up against Moxey the left back, who was struggling in the first half and on an early yellow card. Instead both Holmes and Lookman operated through the middle or drifted to the other flank against a well organised defence and retreating four man midfield blocking up the central areas.

    Fortunately, a brilliant individual goal from Lookman rescued a point and dug Brussell out of a hole.

    The decision to put Solly in midfield has been tried before and always results in a lack of balance, width and build up play on the right. Carol, Riga and Luzon all tried it with the same results.

    If Bolton are the best in the division, there's nothing to worry about. A couple more additions to bolster the squad, Lookman staying and both Diarra & Kashi returning around Christmas time, will make us competitive.


    Excellent points, Tutt-Tutt. Magennis is tough and mobile, and it's utterly daft to have him on the edge, hurling long throw-ins that he himself should be receiving, jumping high and nodding down for Ajose.

    That's Sparrows Lane for you! There were more telling points in the second-half this afternoon. Those familiar crab-like passes along the half-way line, 0-1 down; all the terrified navel-gazing that got us relegated; and the ponderous goal-kicks, so deathly slow as to make even the gods weep.

    Magennis sprinted back to midfield and seized possession. He muscled away - forward to the Covered End, scenting blood. Ajose scored 25 goals in this division last season, but he won't win without close help.

    The ref yesterday got it exactly right. The challenges that sparked such anger on the terraces were mere shoulder-charges. Play on. We have known for many years that our players are delicate little flowers.

    Isn't it about bloody time we muscled up, learned intelligence, rehearsed tactics, and slammed the ball in the onion-bag?


  • Took my eldest son to Lords for his first England match and got hammered
    Had forgotten about our top of the table clash , due to alcohol fuzziness, until my sister sent me a pic of her 5 year old son at his first game head slumped in hands after Bolton had scored
    I told her I'd bought him a protest shirt (she'd been warned not to buy anything from club shop or in ground ) and he soon perked up and was buzzing with the late equaliser


    2.5% Top two ......... 27.5% 3rd-6th ......... 63% 7th-12th ......... 7%13th-20th ........ 0% relegation

    The goals look good on that Vine
  • vff said:

    vff said:

    Glad to see Lookman's late equaliser rescue a point.

    Johnnie Jackson is a great character but he is never going to last a whole season. No central midfield cover on the bench and Lookman is only being brought as a sub. Solly is a brilliant right back but is not a midfielder. There was also a scare with Fox fitness late on and the absence of left back cover doesn't allow him to rest. When will the lessons be learnt ?

    I hope that the deals that are hopefully being negotiated for some quick / creative midfields at minium are finalised before the transfer window or else Charlton will be in trouble again due to a thin squad.

    Something funny there @PragueAddick ?
    Must have been on the metro when i tried to click "like"

    No, it's not funny at all. And unfortunately, I don't have much hope that this week will see the issues you raise being addressed.

  • Took my eldest son to Lords for his first England match and got hammered
    Had forgotten about our top of the table clash , due to alcohol fuzziness, until my sister sent me a pic of her 5 year old son at his first game head slumped in hands after Bolton had scored
    I told her I'd bought him a protest shirt (she'd been warned not to buy anything from club shop or in ground ) and he soon perked up and was buzzing with the late equaliser


    2.5% Top two ......... 27.5% 3rd-6th ......... 63% 7th-12th ......... 7%13th-20th ........ 0% relegation

    I saw them on goal vine

  • thenewbie said:

    jamescafc said:

    Slade needs to explain why he did not replace Jacko with Lookman.

    Does he? we seemed on top for most of the game and while we went a goal down, bringing him on against tired legs looked like a pretty good call.
    A player with Lookman's quality will produce against whoever he plays against at this level. We do not need to wait until the opposition are tired for him to make an impact!
    Yeah we do. Not for his sake, for the rest of the teams'. If we have both Lookman and Holmes start the game and for whatever reason they don't have the best of games and we need to change it up, we have to turn to... no-one. There's literally nothing else we can do except hope they play well.

    Start with one and if he's not cutting it or gets tired out, then bring the other on and at the very worst we've swapped one attacking threat for another instead of our attacking threat being replaced by some creaky defensively minded crab.
    Surely that means we need more overall quality in the squad? We can't keep one of our best players on the bench in case we need a plan b. We need a strong first team with players on the bench that offer something different or are capable of making an impact when things aren't going our way.
    Agreed. Lookman is basically our best player. It is stupid tactics not to start him! As is saying you can only play one of your two best players!!!!
    It's nothing to do with tactics.



  • I'd play Lookman and Ricky in a 4321 at all home games at least. I'd sacrifice Ajose. I give them both free roles allow them to drift between the lines, cut inside or out. They seemed to link up well yesterday and will terrorise lg1 defences with their pace and movement.

    In the 3 games I've seen there is no reason to be so cautious, I'd have Crofts in the Keith Jones role sitting in front of the back four and go play
  • And those demanding that Ade play as our best player will, of course if he has a slump in form, be the first to moan about the club expecting too much from an 18 year old. And how they have risked a young man's career by expecting too much of him, and pushing him forward too early. ..
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