They use a natural, cost-effective material, the demand for which does not lead to more or less animals being killed. Doesn't sound like a cock-up to me. I'm in favour of using such materials instead of synthetic substitutes, maybe because I care about the planet.
They use a natural, cost-effective material, the demand for which does not lead to more or less animals being killed. Doesn't sound like a cock-up to me. I'm in favour of using such materials instead of synthetic substitutes, maybe because I care about the planet.
No point in having that planet if that half a cow can't live a free and peaceful life though fish
They use a natural, cost-effective material, the demand for which does not lead to more or less animals being killed. Doesn't sound like a cock-up to me. I'm in favour of using such materials instead of synthetic substitutes, maybe because I care about the planet.
No point in having that planet if that half a cow can't live a free and peaceful life though fish
They use a natural, cost-effective material, the demand for which does not lead to more or less animals being killed. Doesn't sound like a cock-up to me. I'm in favour of using such materials instead of synthetic substitutes, maybe because I care about the planet.
No point in having that planet if that half a cow can't live a free and peaceful life though fish
I am no a veggie and I choose to look at conservation and the environment as the bigger picture. I try and look at much more than just one aspect of it. I posted above about my family connections to groundbreaking conservation farming methods in Africa. It's something I'm very passionate about. So my motives can't be questioned.
In this case with some basic research my view is that this is actually the least bad result for the environment as a whole. There is less waste in a landfill. There are less chemical by products being produced which could easily pollute a river or any other ecosystem. And it utilises waste from other processes.
So for me it is simply a battle too far and the least worst option.
However I can see that for a veggie with strong views on animal welfare (but maybe less so for conservation as a whole) this may be something they won't accept.
It probably doesn't help that not only are you incredibly thin-skinned to what are mostly light-hearted pokes at your diet/beliefs (particularly compared to what any holders of religious beliefs are subjected to on this forum), but the pro-vegetarian posts on here have often been very condescending in tone, usually implying or flat-out stating that non-vegetarians are thick, ignorant, offensive, primitive, or do not care about animal welfare, or at least not as much as you do. Then you wonder why you receive hostility.
No animals were harmed during the writing of this post.
It probably doesn't help that not only are you incredibly thin-skinned to what are mostly light-hearted pokes at your diet/beliefs (particularly compared to what any holders of religious beliefs are subjected to on this forum), but the pro-vegetarian posts on here have often been very condescending in tone, usually implying or flat-out stating that non-vegetarians are thick, ignorant, offensive, primitive, or do not care about animal welfare, or at least not as much as you do. Then you wonder why you receive hostility.
No animals were harmed during the writing of this post.
It probably doesn't help that not only are you incredibly thin-skinned to what are mostly light-hearted pokes at your diet/beliefs (particularly compared to what any holders of religious beliefs are subjected to on this forum), but the pro-vegetarian posts on here have often been very condescending in tone, usually implying or flat-out stating that non-vegetarians are thick, ignorant, offensive, primitive, or do not care about animal welfare, or at least not as much as you do. Then you wonder why you receive hostility.
No animals were harmed during the writing of this post.
I am no a veggie and I choose to look at conservation and the environment as the bigger picture. I try and look at much more than just one aspect of it. I posted above about my family connections to groundbreaking conservation farming methods in Africa. It's something I'm very passionate about. So my motives can't be questioned.
In this case with some basic research my view is that this is actually the least bad result for the environment as a whole. There is less waste in a landfill. There are less chemical by products being produced which could easily pollute a river or any other ecosystem. And it utilises waste from other processes.
So for me it is simply a battle too far and the least worst option.
However I can see that for a veggie with strong views on animal welfare (but maybe less so for conservation as a whole) this may be something they won't accept.
I think this is really the crux of the matter.
There is the bigger environmental issue which I think unquestionably supports the use of a waste product from another process rather than the production of a chemical product and all that goes with that.
Then there is the completely "moral" issue of whether it is right to consume animals.
I seriously doubt that there will be any significant shift away from the current situation where the vast majority are perfectly happy to eat meat.
I would be interested to know what percentage of the population are vegetarians and Vegan and also how that translates in other countries. I find it difficult to believe that the same discussion rages in eg. France and Spain.
I am no a veggie and I choose to look at conservation and the environment as the bigger picture. I try and look at much more than just one aspect of it. I posted above about my family connections to groundbreaking conservation farming methods in Africa. It's something I'm very passionate about. So my motives can't be questioned.
In this case with some basic research my view is that this is actually the least bad result for the environment as a whole. There is less waste in a landfill. There are less chemical by products being produced which could easily pollute a river or any other ecosystem. And it utilises waste from other processes.
So for me it is simply a battle too far and the least worst option.
However I can see that for a veggie with strong views on animal welfare (but maybe less so for conservation as a whole) this may be something they won't accept.
I think this is really the crux of the matter.
There is the bigger environmental issue which I think unquestionably supports the use of a waste product from another process rather than the production of a chemical product and all that goes with that.
Then there is the completely "moral" issue of whether it is right to consume animals.
I seriously doubt that there will be any significant shift away from the current situation where the vast majority are perfectly happy to eat meat.
I would be interested to know what percentage of the population are vegetarians and Vegan and also how that translates in other countries. I find it difficult to believe that the same discussion rages in eg. France and Spain.
Heard stories here of veggies ordering cheese and ham pizza with no ham, the pizza coming up eith ham on it and the waiter pickin the bits of ham off and putting it back on the table.
Another recent story. I bumped into a Brummie couple who have a 2nd home here and I have worked for over the years, literally last week. Their 18 year old son was seriously ill with stomach problems when I was first working for them about 5 years back, so I asked how he was as he also wanted to join the Army. Turns out that he tried giving up meat and it has done wonders for his health. That's great I news I thought, but not necessarily so as he is now gone completely vegan which has sorted his problem out, but he is demanding (His mum's words not mine) that they don't have meat on the table this Christmas. The couples daughter and her husband are both big people and are gonna want the turkey and all the trimmings, so his mum was going to gave to give him to like ito or lump it, not sure how they got on.....
I'm not sure what your points are. The restaurant ignored the customers request and didn't serve what was ordered. I'd walk out and refuse to pay.
Families can be complicated and have disputes. Most work out a way to get on. I'd tell anyone in this scenario that a veg meal would be provided but he'd have to accept that others in the family will be eating meat. I have to accept that if I visit people, and I do.
Can you not use the notes or ask for coins instead? Would you refuse to meet a friend who wore leather shoes or not get in a car that had leather trim? Normal everyday occurrences such as handling bank notes?
I'm not sure what your points are. The restaurant ignored the customers request and didn't serve what was ordered. I'd walk out and refuse to pay.
Families can be complicated and have disputes. Most work out a way to get on. I'd tell anyone in this scenario that a veg meal would be provided but he'd have to accept that others in the family will be eating meat. I have to accept that if I visit people, and I do.
On the first point I was just going on from what Shootie was saying about veggies in France. If I was actually with a veggie and this happened to them, I'd bloody walk out an all giving the waiter a bit of abuse on the way.
My point on the lad with the attitude, is that there ain't one, it's just an anecdote
I deleted a paragraph at the bottom where I said, people should respect what others want in both situations
I'm not sure what your points are. The restaurant ignored the customers request and didn't serve what was ordered. I'd walk out and refuse to pay.
Families can be complicated and have disputes. Most work out a way to get on. I'd tell anyone in this scenario that a veg meal would be provided but he'd have to accept that others in the family will be eating meat. I have to accept that if I visit people, and I do.
On the first point I was just going on from what Shootie was saying about veggies in France. If I was actually with a veggie and this happened to them, I'd bloody walk out an all giving the waiter a bit of abuse on the way.
My point on the lad with the attitude, is that there ain't one, it's just an anecdote
I deleted a paragraph at the bottom where I said, people should respect what others want in both situations
So we are in agreement then. Man hug and all that. :-)
I am no a veggie and I choose to look at conservation and the environment as the bigger picture. I try and look at much more than just one aspect of it. I posted above about my family connections to groundbreaking conservation farming methods in Africa. It's something I'm very passionate about. So my motives can't be questioned.
In this case with some basic research my view is that this is actually the least bad result for the environment as a whole. There is less waste in a landfill. There are less chemical by products being produced which could easily pollute a river or any other ecosystem. And it utilises waste from other processes.
So for me it is simply a battle too far and the least worst option.
However I can see that for a veggie with strong views on animal welfare (but maybe less so for conservation as a whole) this may be something they won't accept.
I think this is really the crux of the matter.
There is the bigger environmental issue which I think unquestionably supports the use of a waste product from another process rather than the production of a chemical product and all that goes with that.
Then there is the completely "moral" issue of whether it is right to consume animals.
I seriously doubt that there will be any significant shift away from the current situation where the vast majority are perfectly happy to eat meat.
I would be interested to know what percentage of the population are vegetarians and Vegan and also how that translates in other countries. I find it difficult to believe that the same discussion rages in eg. France and Spain.
I'd packed a bag with various vegan stuff for the Belgium trip recently. Didn't need it. Plenty of stuff to eat and very accommodating people. The hotel in Ypres that @SE7toSG3 booked us into was superb. With a bit of notice before we got there they cooked a great meal for dinner and the breakfast buffet had a separate bit with various ALPRO products (manufacturer of vegan stuff based in Belgium).
Can you not use the notes or ask for coins instead? Would you refuse to meet a friend who wore leather shoes or not get in a car that had leather trim? Normal everyday occurrences such as handling bank notes?
Don't waste your time. Various scenarios alike the above have been put to them already and most have been met by ridiculous responses.
Can you not use the notes or ask for coins instead? Would you refuse to meet a friend who wore leather shoes or not get in a car that had leather trim? Normal everyday occurrences such as handling bank notes?
Don't waste your time. Various scenarios alike the above have been put to them already and most have been met by ridiculous responses.
Just interested that's all at how their belief/lifestyle can impact them.
I am no a veggie and I choose to look at conservation and the environment as the bigger picture. I try and look at much more than just one aspect of it. I posted above about my family connections to groundbreaking conservation farming methods in Africa. It's something I'm very passionate about. So my motives can't be questioned.
In this case with some basic research my view is that this is actually the least bad result for the environment as a whole. There is less waste in a landfill. There are less chemical by products being produced which could easily pollute a river or any other ecosystem. And it utilises waste from other processes.
So for me it is simply a battle too far and the least worst option.
However I can see that for a veggie with strong views on animal welfare (but maybe less so for conservation as a whole) this may be something they won't accept.
I think this is really the crux of the matter.
There is the bigger environmental issue which I think unquestionably supports the use of a waste product from another process rather than the production of a chemical product and all that goes with that.
Then there is the completely "moral" issue of whether it is right to consume animals.
I seriously doubt that there will be any significant shift away from the current situation where the vast majority are perfectly happy to eat meat.
I would be interested to know what percentage of the population are vegetarians and Vegan and also how that translates in other countries. I find it difficult to believe that the same discussion rages in eg. France and Spain.
I'd packed a bag with various vegan stuff for the Belgium trip recently. Didn't need it. Plenty of stuff to eat and very accommodating people. The hotel in Ypres that @SE7toSG3 booked us into was superb. With a bit of notice before we got there they cooked a great meal for dinner and the breakfast buffet had a separate bit with various ALPRO products (manufacturer of vegan stuff based in Belgium).
If, it's an objection to the tallow being present, even in miniscule amounts then you've maybe got a big problem with all cash.
What do notes get used for these days? Chances are unless the polymer note or an old school note (it's not paper as such - see below) is brand spanking, it's going to have all sorts of crap all over it. In miniscule amounts, of course.
Handed over in a pub with coinage for change for pork scratchings with unwashed greasy fingers and then later used to pay the kebab van or the local butcher. (I doubt any tradespeople wash the notes before getting them back into circulation).
It's going to be unacceptable to everybody if they thought about it at all.
Depending upon who you believe either 100% (The Daily Mail) or 11% (The Guardian) of UK bank notes have detectable traces of cocaine on them. And, then, of course, everybody washes their hands after a quick trip to the porcelain don't they?
Does it make a difference to you whether the animal byproduct was used in the manufacturing process or added by careless handling later on? I'm not judging just trying to understand a little more about your position because it seems to me to be a precarious one for some. I understand Hindu temples have (may have?) banned the new fiver. Well it's difficult to see why they should accept any money at all then.
I don't know, but I would actually be quite surprised if some animal byproduct or another was not used in the process of making the "paper" notes. I would expect the cotton fibre and linen rag (they don't actually use wood pulp at all) will have had to have been washed in chemicals or bleached or something. What's in the bleach and/or the cleaning agent? How was the cotton and linen produced in the first place? And perhaps more pertinently, what's in the ink? The stuff used for the intaglio printing must be pretty robust in order to retain the raised feel over a note's lifespan. Then how about the wax that's used to produce the watermark?
If, it's an objection to the tallow being present, even in miniscule amounts then you've maybe got a big problem with all cash.
What do notes get used for these days? Chances are unless the polymer note or an old school note (it's not paper as such - see below) is brand spanking, it's going to have all sorts of crap all over it. In miniscule amounts, of course.
Handed over in a pub with coinage for change for pork scratchings with unwashed greasy fingers and then later used to pay the kebab van or the local butcher. (I doubt any tradespeople wash the notes before getting them back into circulation).
It's going to be unacceptable to everybody if they thought about it at all.
Depending upon who you believe either 100% (The Daily Mail) or 11% (The Guardian) of UK bank notes have detectable traces of cocaine on them. And, then, of course, everybody washes their hands after a quick trip to the porcelain don't they?
Does it make a difference to you whether the animal byproduct was used in the manufacturing process or added by careless handling later on? I'm not judging just trying to understand a little more about your position because it seems to me to be a precarious one for some. I understand Hindu temples have (may have?) banned the new fiver. Well it's difficult to see why they should accept any money at all then.
I don't know, but I would actually be quite surprised if some animal byproduct or another was not used in the process of making the "paper" notes. I would expect the cotton fibre and linen rag (they don't actually use wood pulp at all) will have had to have been washed in chemicals or bleached or something. What's in the bleach and/or the cleaning agent? How was the cotton and linen produced in the first place? And perhaps more pertinently, what's in the ink? The stuff used for the intaglio printing must be pretty robust in order to retain the raised feel over a note's lifespan. Then how about the wax that's used to produce the watermark?
Thank you for your lecture. My objection is they knowingly used animal product when they needn't have. So I will choose not to use the new fiver. That's all.
Comments
I am no a veggie and I choose to look at conservation and the environment as the bigger picture. I try and look at much more than just one aspect of it. I posted above about my family connections to groundbreaking conservation farming methods in Africa. It's something I'm very passionate about. So my motives can't be questioned.
In this case with some basic research my view is that this is actually the least bad result for the environment as a whole. There is less waste in a landfill. There are less chemical by products being produced which could easily pollute a river or any other ecosystem. And it utilises waste from other processes.
So for me it is simply a battle too far and the least worst option.
However I can see that for a veggie with strong views on animal welfare (but maybe less so for conservation as a whole) this may be something they won't accept.
There is the bigger environmental issue which I think unquestionably supports the use of a waste product from another process rather than the production of a chemical product and all that goes with that.
Then there is the completely "moral" issue of whether it is right to consume animals.
I seriously doubt that there will be any significant shift away from the current situation where the vast majority are perfectly happy to eat meat.
I would be interested to know what percentage of the population are vegetarians and Vegan and also how that translates in other countries. I find it difficult to believe that the same discussion rages in eg. France and Spain.
With fewer people on the veggie/vegan side!
Another recent story. I bumped into a Brummie couple who have a 2nd home here and I have worked for over the years, literally last week. Their 18 year old son was seriously ill with stomach problems when I was first working for them about 5 years back, so I asked how he was as he also wanted to join the Army. Turns out that he tried giving up meat and it has done wonders for his health. That's great I news I thought, but not necessarily so as he is now gone completely vegan which has sorted his problem out, but he is demanding (His mum's words not mine) that they don't have meat on the table this Christmas. The couples daughter and her husband are both big people and are gonna want the turkey and all the trimmings, so his mum was going to gave to give him to like ito or lump it, not sure how they got on.....
Families can be complicated and have disputes. Most work out a way to get on. I'd tell anyone in this scenario that a veg meal would be provided but he'd have to accept that others in the family will be eating meat. I have to accept that if I visit people, and I do.
My point on the lad with the attitude, is that there ain't one, it's just an anecdote
I deleted a paragraph at the bottom where I said, people should respect what others want in both situations
I'm still not sure where I fall on this one, but I'm happy to see somebody actually deal with the ethical issues surrounding the situation
My respect and good wishes, canters!
Just my take on the issue. Don't expect everyone to agree.
What do notes get used for these days? Chances are unless the polymer note or an old school note (it's not paper as such - see below) is brand spanking, it's going to have all sorts of crap all over it. In miniscule amounts, of course.
Handed over in a pub with coinage for change for pork scratchings with unwashed greasy fingers and then later used to pay the kebab van or the local butcher. (I doubt any tradespeople wash the notes before getting them back into circulation).
It's going to be unacceptable to everybody if they thought about it at all.
Depending upon who you believe either 100% (The Daily Mail) or 11% (The Guardian) of UK bank notes have detectable traces of cocaine on them. And, then, of course, everybody washes their hands after a quick trip to the porcelain don't they?
Does it make a difference to you whether the animal byproduct was used in the manufacturing process or added by careless handling later on? I'm not judging just trying to understand a little more about your position because it seems to me to be a precarious one for some. I understand Hindu temples have (may have?) banned the new fiver. Well it's difficult to see why they should accept any money at all then.
I don't know, but I would actually be quite surprised if some animal byproduct or another was not used in the process of making the "paper" notes. I would expect the cotton fibre and linen rag (they don't actually use wood pulp at all) will have had to have been washed in chemicals or bleached or something. What's in the bleach and/or the cleaning agent? How was the cotton and linen produced in the first place? And perhaps more pertinently, what's in the ink? The stuff used for the intaglio printing must be pretty robust in order to retain the raised feel over a note's lifespan. Then how about the wax that's used to produce the watermark?
My objection is they knowingly used animal product when they needn't have. So I will choose not to use the new fiver.
That's all.