@ShootersHillGuru The other day you wrote that you respected us for our principles. Now we're a 'tiny minority', and you find it 'pathetic'. The issue of tallow in bank notes isn't a pressing concern for you. It isn't the most pressing concern for me. But, for many, myself included, it is a concern and on this, and other issues of animal welfare and advancement, the battle goes on. As, no doubt, will the inane, sarcastic and ignorant comments on this forum. The rising awareness in matters relating to the welfare of animals and the influence that animal advocates are having clearly gets to some Lifers. Two of us on this forum helped with the reception of fifty chickens this afternoon. They'd come from a mass-production unit in Sussex and are now safe in a sanctuary in NW Kent. One hundred more are coming in a fortnight. We hope that most will, in the new year, be re-homed by people who will care for them. Merry Christmas.
I'm obviously not a veggie, but I long to see the day when mass producing / intensively farming any animal is completely outlawed. I'd expect that the majority of the general public would like the same, until they realise that it would cost em a few quid more when buying the finished product. Like I've said a few times, meat shouldn't be as cheap as it is considering what it is, but try telling that to the average housewife when she's paying 6 quid for 2 birds in Asda, the same housewife who would not doubt think I'm cruel for harvesting my 100% free-range meat from the wild.
Moving on to another point, I think most of this thread has been generally respectful. I can't see any ignorant comments, it got a bit unique when it was suggested that we could replacing pastoral land for arable, but then maybe that suggesting was a bit naive at best anyway.
All the terrible things going on in the world and a tiny minority group find the time and spend the effort to protest about what amounts to 99.9% of the population as fuck all. I find it pathetic really.
As someone else pointed out, the current circulation of banknotes require the amount of tallow that could be produced from half a cow. That cow could have been a cow that died of natural causes for all we know.
Meanwhile tens of billions of animals are slaughtered each year to be eaten across the globe.
How many cows will be saved by changing to a synthetic product? None. How many animals could be harmed or kill thanks to the synthetic produce? Potentially thousands.
I want less animals to be killed each year than a vegetarian. That's why I support tallow in products.
So you don't understand how principles effect individuals. I don't want to use products that use animal products. But basically you're saying suspend my beliefs because you think they don't matter. Actually fuck off.
Surely you mean you don't want to use products that use animal produts, until it gets too inconvenient, then it's ok, cos, you know, life is hard.
@ShootersHillGuru The other day you wrote that you respected us for our principles. Now we're a 'tiny minority', and you find it 'pathetic'. The issue of tallow in bank notes isn't a pressing concern for you. It isn't the most pressing concern for me. But, for many, myself included, it is a concern and on this, and other issues of animal welfare and advancement, the battle goes on. As, no doubt, will the inane, sarcastic and ignorant comments on this forum. The rising awareness in matters relating to the welfare of animals and the influence that animal advocates are having clearly gets to some Lifers. Two of us on this forum helped with the reception of fifty chickens this afternoon. They'd come from a mass-production unit in Sussex and are now safe in a sanctuary in NW Kent. One hundred more are coming in a fortnight. We hope that most will, in the new year, be re-homed by people who will care for them. Merry Christmas.
I'm obviously not a veggie, but I long to see the day when mass producing / intensively farming any animal is completely outlawed. I'd expect that the majority of the general public would like the same, until they realise that it would cost em a few quid more when buying the finished product. Like I've said a few times, meat shouldn't be as cheap as it is considering what it is, but try telling that to the average housewife when she's paying 6 quid for 2 birds in Asda, the same housewife who would not doubt think I'm cruel for harvesting my 100% free-range meat from the wild.
Moving on to another point, I think most of this thread has been generally respectful. I can't see any ignorant comments, it got a bit unique when it was suggested that we could replacing pastoral land for arable, but then maybe that suggesting was a bit naive at best anyway.
I think you may be referring to something I wrote earlier. To expand - for example, in the Amazon basin forests are being destroyed to free up space for beef production. This means that indigenous people are displaced, rainforests permanently destroyed and more land is needed to grow the feed for cows. Often the feed they grow is soya (because it's a high protein food) which could be fed directly to people thus cutting out the need for cows.
@ShootersHillGuru The other day you wrote that you respected us for our principles. Now we're a 'tiny minority', and you find it 'pathetic'. The issue of tallow in bank notes isn't a pressing concern for you. It isn't the most pressing concern for me. But, for many, myself included, it is a concern and on this, and other issues of animal welfare and advancement, the battle goes on. As, no doubt, will the inane, sarcastic and ignorant comments on this forum. The rising awareness in matters relating to the welfare of animals and the influence that animal advocates are having clearly gets to some Lifers. Two of us on this forum helped with the reception of fifty chickens this afternoon. They'd come from a mass-production unit in Sussex and are now safe in a sanctuary in NW Kent. One hundred more are coming in a fortnight. We hope that most will, in the new year, be re-homed by people who will care for them. Merry Christmas.
I do respect even admire anyone that feels that animal welfare is important. Where we do part company is when the tail starts to wag the dog. This issue for the overwhelmingly vast majority is laughable. It's a non important event.
Fiiish has put the case why even the Vegan argument is nonsensical.
In any case. Regardless of what's happened you already have your victory. Do you really think that the BoE will now produce another note using tallow in the formula ?
It's a classic case of a vociferous minority having a disproportionate say in the way things are run and our money spent even when the logic is unsound.
@ShootersHillGuru The other day you wrote that you respected us for our principles. Now we're a 'tiny minority', and you find it 'pathetic'. The issue of tallow in bank notes isn't a pressing concern for you. It isn't the most pressing concern for me. But, for many, myself included, it is a concern and on this, and other issues of animal welfare and advancement, the battle goes on. As, no doubt, will the inane, sarcastic and ignorant comments on this forum. The rising awareness in matters relating to the welfare of animals and the influence that animal advocates are having clearly gets to some Lifers. Two of us on this forum helped with the reception of fifty chickens this afternoon. They'd come from a mass-production unit in Sussex and are now safe in a sanctuary in NW Kent. One hundred more are coming in a fortnight. We hope that most will, in the new year, be re-homed by people who will care for them. Merry Christmas.
I'm obviously not a veggie, but I long to see the day when mass producing / intensively farming any animal is completely outlawed. I'd expect that the majority of the general public would like the same, until they realise that it would cost em a few quid more when buying the finished product. Like I've said a few times, meat shouldn't be as cheap as it is considering what it is, but try telling that to the average housewife when she's paying 6 quid for 2 birds in Asda, the same housewife who would not doubt think I'm cruel for harvesting my 100% free-range meat from the wild.
Moving on to another point, I think most of this thread has been generally respectful. I can't see any ignorant comments, it got a bit unique when it was suggested that we could replacing pastoral land for arable, but then maybe that suggesting was a bit naive at best anyway.
I think you may be referring to something I wrote earlier. To expand - for example, in the Amazon basin forests are being destroyed to free up space for beef production. This means that indigenous people are displaced, rainforests permanently destroyed and more land is needed to grow the feed for cows. Often the feed they grow is soya (because it's a high protein food) which could be fed directly to people thus cutting out the need for cows.
What is naive about this?
Sorry, this is nothing like how you came over earlier, the Amazon rain forests weren't mentioned.
What you're saying now however, I would say most meat eaters would agree with, not just in the Amazon, but any other habitats around the world that are under threat.
After the loggers / mining firms have destroyed parts the rain forest it is used for both arable and pastoral farming etc., IMO This is nothing to do with being a meat eater or veggie, but knowing where your food comes from whether it's meat, cereal or whatever.
@ShootersHillGuru The other day you wrote that you respected us for our principles. Now we're a 'tiny minority', and you find it 'pathetic'. The issue of tallow in bank notes isn't a pressing concern for you. It isn't the most pressing concern for me. But, for many, myself included, it is a concern and on this, and other issues of animal welfare and advancement, the battle goes on. As, no doubt, will the inane, sarcastic and ignorant comments on this forum. The rising awareness in matters relating to the welfare of animals and the influence that animal advocates are having clearly gets to some Lifers. Two of us on this forum helped with the reception of fifty chickens this afternoon. They'd come from a mass-production unit in Sussex and are now safe in a sanctuary in NW Kent. One hundred more are coming in a fortnight. We hope that most will, in the new year, be re-homed by people who will care for them. Merry Christmas.
I'm obviously not a veggie, but I long to see the day when mass producing / intensively farming any animal is completely outlawed. I'd expect that the majority of the general public would like the same, until they realise that it would cost em a few quid more when buying the finished product. Like I've said a few times, meat shouldn't be as cheap as it is considering what it is, but try telling that to the average housewife when she's paying 6 quid for 2 birds in Asda, the same housewife who would not doubt think I'm cruel for harvesting my 100% free-range meat from the wild.
Moving on to another point, I think most of this thread has been generally respectful. I can't see any ignorant comments, it got a bit unique when it was suggested that we could replacing pastoral land for arable, but then maybe that suggesting was a bit naive at best anyway.
I think you may be referring to something I wrote earlier. To expand - for example, in the Amazon basin forests are being destroyed to free up space for beef production. This means that indigenous people are displaced, rainforests permanently destroyed and more land is needed to grow the feed for cows. Often the feed they grow is soya (because it's a high protein food) which could be fed directly to people thus cutting out the need for cows.
What is naive about this?
Perhaps the people want to eat cows and not soya ? I do.
@ShootersHillGuru The other day you wrote that you respected us for our principles. Now we're a 'tiny minority', and you find it 'pathetic'. The issue of tallow in bank notes isn't a pressing concern for you. It isn't the most pressing concern for me. But, for many, myself included, it is a concern and on this, and other issues of animal welfare and advancement, the battle goes on. As, no doubt, will the inane, sarcastic and ignorant comments on this forum. The rising awareness in matters relating to the welfare of animals and the influence that animal advocates are having clearly gets to some Lifers. Two of us on this forum helped with the reception of fifty chickens this afternoon. They'd come from a mass-production unit in Sussex and are now safe in a sanctuary in NW Kent. One hundred more are coming in a fortnight. We hope that most will, in the new year, be re-homed by people who will care for them. Merry Christmas.
I'm obviously not a veggie, but I long to see the day when mass producing / intensively farming any animal is completely outlawed. I'd expect that the majority of the general public would like the same, until they realise that it would cost em a few quid more when buying the finished product. Like I've said a few times, meat shouldn't be as cheap as it is considering what it is, but try telling that to the average housewife when she's paying 6 quid for 2 birds in Asda, the same housewife who would not doubt think I'm cruel for harvesting my 100% free-range meat from the wild.
Moving on to another point, I think most of this thread has been generally respectful. I can't see any ignorant comments, it got a bit unique when it was suggested that we could replacing pastoral land for arable, but then maybe that suggesting was a bit naive at best anyway.
Often the feed they grow is soya (because it's a high protein food) which could be fed directly to people thus cutting out the need for cows.
@ShootersHillGuru The other day you wrote that you respected us for our principles. Now we're a 'tiny minority', and you find it 'pathetic'. The issue of tallow in bank notes isn't a pressing concern for you. It isn't the most pressing concern for me. But, for many, myself included, it is a concern and on this, and other issues of animal welfare and advancement, the battle goes on. As, no doubt, will the inane, sarcastic and ignorant comments on this forum. The rising awareness in matters relating to the welfare of animals and the influence that animal advocates are having clearly gets to some Lifers. Two of us on this forum helped with the reception of fifty chickens this afternoon. They'd come from a mass-production unit in Sussex and are now safe in a sanctuary in NW Kent. One hundred more are coming in a fortnight. We hope that most will, in the new year, be re-homed by people who will care for them. Merry Christmas.
I'm obviously not a veggie, but I long to see the day when mass producing / intensively farming any animal is completely outlawed. I'd expect that the majority of the general public would like the same, until they realise that it would cost em a few quid more when buying the finished product. Like I've said a few times, meat shouldn't be as cheap as it is considering what it is, but try telling that to the average housewife when she's paying 6 quid for 2 birds in Asda, the same housewife who would not doubt think I'm cruel for harvesting my 100% free-range meat from the wild.
Moving on to another point, I think most of this thread has been generally respectful. I can't see any ignorant comments, it got a bit unique when it was suggested that we could replacing pastoral land for arable, but then maybe that suggesting was a bit naive at best anyway.
Often the feed they grow is soya (because it's a high protein food) which could be fed directly to people thus cutting out the need for cows.
Beef tastes good, soya tastes shit
Pass
Next time you're in the supermarket have a look at the ingredients in the foods you buy. You may be surprised to see soya featuring regularly - eg in BEEF burgers!
"This issue for the overwhelmingly vast majority is laughable. It's a non important event".
The issue was escalated via Social media and a lot of people have voiced their opposition. How many times......the amount of tallow isn't the issue. The point is that it shouldn't have been there in the first place.
"Regardless of what's happened you already have your victory".
Premature. The issue has yet to be resolved so "victory" is not yet achieved.
"Do you really think that the BoE will now produce another note using tallow in the formula ? "
@ShootersHillGuru The other day you wrote that you respected us for our principles. Now we're a 'tiny minority', and you find it 'pathetic'. The issue of tallow in bank notes isn't a pressing concern for you. It isn't the most pressing concern for me. But, for many, myself included, it is a concern and on this, and other issues of animal welfare and advancement, the battle goes on. As, no doubt, will the inane, sarcastic and ignorant comments on this forum. The rising awareness in matters relating to the welfare of animals and the influence that animal advocates are having clearly gets to some Lifers. Two of us on this forum helped with the reception of fifty chickens this afternoon. They'd come from a mass-production unit in Sussex and are now safe in a sanctuary in NW Kent. One hundred more are coming in a fortnight. We hope that most will, in the new year, be re-homed by people who will care for them. Merry Christmas.
I'm obviously not a veggie, but I long to see the day when mass producing / intensively farming any animal is completely outlawed. I'd expect that the majority of the general public would like the same, until they realise that it would cost em a few quid more when buying the finished product. Like I've said a few times, meat shouldn't be as cheap as it is considering what it is, but try telling that to the average housewife when she's paying 6 quid for 2 birds in Asda, the same housewife who would not doubt think I'm cruel for harvesting my 100% free-range meat from the wild.
Moving on to another point, I think most of this thread has been generally respectful. I can't see any ignorant comments, it got a bit unique when it was suggested that we could replacing pastoral land for arable, but then maybe that suggesting was a bit naive at best anyway.
Often the feed they grow is soya (because it's a high protein food) which could be fed directly to people thus cutting out the need for cows.
Beef tastes good, soya tastes shit
Pass
Next time you're in the supermarket have a look at the ingredients in the foods you buy. You may be surprised to see soya featuring regularly - eg in BEEF burgers!
And just like the 5 pound note, I think you'll find that the amount of soya in these products is a small, insignificant amount.
Besides I'm a professionally trained chef fuck am I buying processed beef burgers off the shelves.
Mince from the butcher and make my own, much better
Most people don't care or think about what is in the new 'polymer' note, a minority of people do. It feels the debate on here is the indifferent castigating others for having an opinion on the matter. The note is mainly made of plastic-like material with the production and recycling issues associated with those materials. There may well be a half-cow amount of tallow in all the notes produced, a similarly small and cheap synthetic alternative could be used which would hardly make the polymer note any more environmentally unfriendly than it already is. There is barely an issue here, there has been a poorly thought through production plan, which now the issue has been flagged up could easily be changed. The issue has provided the vegetarian despisers with an open door to push at in their view by saying it is such a tiny issue. The truth seems to me that it is and was never an issue for carnivores, but it is one for vegetarians which can easily be fixed. It is not anything like a tail wagging a dog, but a desire for a small manageable change that respects the point of view of some people. What intrigues me is the vehemence associated with some anti vegetarians, or should I say those who hate vegetarians for saying anything.
Good luck to the animal people they stand up for what they believe in even though I don't agree with them most times and animal welfare is probably not in my top 1000 things to think about
Most people don't care or think about what is in the new 'polymer' note, a minority of people do. It feels the debate on here is the indifferent castigating others for having an opinion on the matter. The note is mainly made of plastic-like material with the production and recycling issues associated with those materials. There may well be a half-cow amount of tallow in all the notes produced, a similarly small and cheap synthetic alternative could be used which would hardly make the polymer note any more environmentally unfriendly than it already is. There is barely an issue here, there has been a poorly thought through production plan, which now the issue has been flagged up could easily be changed. The issue has provided the vegetarian despisers with an open door to push at in their view by saying it is such a tiny issue. The truth seems to me that it is and was never an issue for carnivores, but it is one for vegetarians which can easily be fixed. It is not anything like a tail wagging a dog, but a desire for a small manageable change that respects the point of view of some people. What intrigues me is the vehemence associated with some anti vegetarians, or should I say those who hate vegetarians for saying anything.
Most people don't care or think about what is in the new 'polymer' note, a minority of people do. It feels the debate on here is the indifferent castigating others for having an opinion on the matter. The note is mainly made of plastic-like material with the production and recycling issues associated with those materials. There may well be a half-cow amount of tallow in all the notes produced, a similarly small and cheap synthetic alternative could be used which would hardly make the polymer note any more environmentally unfriendly than it already is. There is barely an issue here, there has been a poorly thought through production plan, which now the issue has been flagged up could easily be changed. The issue has provided the vegetarian despisers with an open door to push at in their view by saying it is such a tiny issue. The truth seems to me that it is and was never an issue for carnivores, but it is one for vegetarians which can easily be fixed. It is not anything like a tail wagging a dog, but a desire for a small manageable change that respects the point of view of some people. What intrigues me is the vehemence associated with some anti vegetarians, or should I say those who hate vegetarians for saying anything.
Who on this thread are 'vegetarian despisers'?
I need not spell it out need I? Re read the thread and then you can make a few informed guesses.
Most people don't care or think about what is in the new 'polymer' note, a minority of people do. It feels the debate on here is the indifferent castigating others for having an opinion on the matter. The note is mainly made of plastic-like material with the production and recycling issues associated with those materials. There may well be a half-cow amount of tallow in all the notes produced, a similarly small and cheap synthetic alternative could be used which would hardly make the polymer note any more environmentally unfriendly than it already is. There is barely an issue here, there has been a poorly thought through production plan, which now the issue has been flagged up could easily be changed. The issue has provided the vegetarian despisers with an open door to push at in their view by saying it is such a tiny issue. The truth seems to me that it is and was never an issue for carnivores, but it is one for vegetarians which can easily be fixed. It is not anything like a tail wagging a dog, but a desire for a small manageable change that respects the point of view of some people. What intrigues me is the vehemence associated with some anti vegetarians, or should I say those who hate vegetarians for saying anything.
Who on this thread are 'vegetarian despisers'?
IMHO the ones that make 'arf arf' jokes about eating animals in response to our posts. Eg after rescuing 50 ex commercial hens yesterday (30 more today) we had the oh so funny 'I'll have two large ones but take out the giblets first'. These people should come and see how these birds have spent the first 18 months of their lives. Oh and don't get me started on broilers.....
"This issue for the overwhelmingly vast majority is laughable. It's a non important event".
The issue was escalated via Social media and a lot of people have voiced their opposition. How many times......the amount of tallow isn't the issue. The point is that it shouldn't have been there in the first place.
"Regardless of what's happened you already have your victory".
Premature. The issue has yet to be resolved so "victory" is not yet achieved.
"Do you really think that the BoE will now produce another note using tallow in the formula ? "
No, Dave, I don't think that.
The BoE will certainly not even think about using the same formula to produce the next note. That I believe is a given. This despite the reasons given by other posters that using tallow probably has the least impact on the environment and thus animals than a synthetic alternative.
The miniscule minority has spoken and like in much of this crazy old country people give way because it's just too damned difficult not to.
Most people don't care or think about what is in the new 'polymer' note, a minority of people do. It feels the debate on here is the indifferent castigating others for having an opinion on the matter. The note is mainly made of plastic-like material with the production and recycling issues associated with those materials. There may well be a half-cow amount of tallow in all the notes produced, a similarly small and cheap synthetic alternative could be used which would hardly make the polymer note any more environmentally unfriendly than it already is. There is barely an issue here, there has been a poorly thought through production plan, which now the issue has been flagged up could easily be changed. The issue has provided the vegetarian despisers with an open door to push at in their view by saying it is such a tiny issue. The truth seems to me that it is and was never an issue for carnivores, but it is one for vegetarians which can easily be fixed. It is not anything like a tail wagging a dog, but a desire for a small manageable change that respects the point of view of some people. What intrigues me is the vehemence associated with some anti vegetarians, or should I say those who hate vegetarians for saying anything.
Who on this thread are 'vegetarian despisers'?
I need not spell it out need I? Re read the thread and then you can make a few informed guesses.
I think there's a few jokes, but I don't see anyone despising veggies, I think that's a bit strong
And let's be honest, when someone starts a thread with 'I won't be using the currency of the country in which I live as it may contain a microscopic amount of what was once an animal' it doesn't exactly paint vegetarians in the best light and is asking for jokes to be made.
@ShootersHillGuru The other day you wrote that you respected us for our principles. Now we're a 'tiny minority', and you find it 'pathetic'. The issue of tallow in bank notes isn't a pressing concern for you. It isn't the most pressing concern for me. But, for many, myself included, it is a concern and on this, and other issues of animal welfare and advancement, the battle goes on. As, no doubt, will the inane, sarcastic and ignorant comments on this forum. The rising awareness in matters relating to the welfare of animals and the influence that animal advocates are having clearly gets to some Lifers. Two of us on this forum helped with the reception of fifty chickens this afternoon. They'd come from a mass-production unit in Sussex and are now safe in a sanctuary in NW Kent. One hundred more are coming in a fortnight. We hope that most will, in the new year, be re-homed by people who will care for them. Merry Christmas.
I'm obviously not a veggie, but I long to see the day when mass producing / intensively farming any animal is completely outlawed. I'd expect that the majority of the general public would like the same, until they realise that it would cost em a few quid more when buying the finished product. Like I've said a few times, meat shouldn't be as cheap as it is considering what it is, but try telling that to the average housewife when she's paying 6 quid for 2 birds in Asda, the same housewife who would not doubt think I'm cruel for harvesting my 100% free-range meat from the wild.
Moving on to another point, I think most of this thread has been generally respectful. I can't see any ignorant comments, it got a bit unique when it was suggested that we could replacing pastoral land for arable, but then maybe that suggesting was a bit naive at best anyway.
Often the feed they grow is soya (because it's a high protein food) which could be fed directly to people thus cutting out the need for cows.
Beef tastes good, soya tastes shit
Pass
Eat beef raw do you? Or is it the seasoning and cooking method that makes it taste 'good'?
Most people don't care or think about what is in the new 'polymer' note, a minority of people do. It feels the debate on here is the indifferent castigating others for having an opinion on the matter. The note is mainly made of plastic-like material with the production and recycling issues associated with those materials. There may well be a half-cow amount of tallow in all the notes produced, a similarly small and cheap synthetic alternative could be used which would hardly make the polymer note any more environmentally unfriendly than it already is. There is barely an issue here, there has been a poorly thought through production plan, which now the issue has been flagged up could easily be changed. The issue has provided the vegetarian despisers with an open door to push at in their view by saying it is such a tiny issue. The truth seems to me that it is and was never an issue for carnivores, but it is one for vegetarians which can easily be fixed. It is not anything like a tail wagging a dog, but a desire for a small manageable change that respects the point of view of some people. What intrigues me is the vehemence associated with some anti vegetarians, or should I say those who hate vegetarians for saying anything.
Who on this thread are 'vegetarian despisers'?
IMHO the ones that make 'arf arf' jokes about eating animals in response to our posts. Eg after rescuing 50 ex commercial hens yesterday (30 more today) we had the oh so funny 'I'll have two large ones but take out the giblets first'. These people should come and see how these birds have spent the first 18 months of their lives. Oh and don't get me started on broilers.....
Looking through the thread, the only offensive/hateful comment I can see was made by the OP.
Most people don't care or think about what is in the new 'polymer' note, a minority of people do. It feels the debate on here is the indifferent castigating others for having an opinion on the matter. The note is mainly made of plastic-like material with the production and recycling issues associated with those materials. There may well be a half-cow amount of tallow in all the notes produced, a similarly small and cheap synthetic alternative could be used which would hardly make the polymer note any more environmentally unfriendly than it already is. There is barely an issue here, there has been a poorly thought through production plan, which now the issue has been flagged up could easily be changed. The issue has provided the vegetarian despisers with an open door to push at in their view by saying it is such a tiny issue. The truth seems to me that it is and was never an issue for carnivores, but it is one for vegetarians which can easily be fixed. It is not anything like a tail wagging a dog, but a desire for a small manageable change that respects the point of view of some people. What intrigues me is the vehemence associated with some anti vegetarians, or should I say those who hate vegetarians for saying anything.
Seth. Who on earth is or has suggested they "despise vegetarians" ? I would think that most people when they even give it a moments thought think veggies to be principled if not a little bit fringe.
Please don't try to take everything so personally especially where there was no intent to insult.
The polymer note has plenty of materials in it which have environmental impact. Indeed the cow and leather industry has a huge environmental impact itself, and it is an industry that is not sweet pink and fluffy as you see in the TV adverts of lovely space rich cattle grazing verdant open spaces under a sunny blue sky.
The minority increases day by day and it is clear that some don't like that. A while back, this forum was all but silent on animal welfare issues. That's changed now. Charlton Life is such a good forum in that, whilst its rasion d'etre is CAFC, there are threads on numerous topics other than football. A splendid place in which to challenge orthodoxy. The ignorance, opprobrium and cheap 'jokes' are to be expected. It won't stop us.
Most people don't care or think about what is in the new 'polymer' note, a minority of people do. It feels the debate on here is the indifferent castigating others for having an opinion on the matter. The note is mainly made of plastic-like material with the production and recycling issues associated with those materials. There may well be a half-cow amount of tallow in all the notes produced, a similarly small and cheap synthetic alternative could be used which would hardly make the polymer note any more environmentally unfriendly than it already is. There is barely an issue here, there has been a poorly thought through production plan, which now the issue has been flagged up could easily be changed. The issue has provided the vegetarian despisers with an open door to push at in their view by saying it is such a tiny issue. The truth seems to me that it is and was never an issue for carnivores, but it is one for vegetarians which can easily be fixed. It is not anything like a tail wagging a dog, but a desire for a small manageable change that respects the point of view of some people. What intrigues me is the vehemence associated with some anti vegetarians, or should I say those who hate vegetarians for saying anything.
Seth. Who on earth is or has suggested they "despise vegetarians" ? I would think that most people when they even give it a moments thought think veggies to be principled if not a little bit fringe.
Please don't try to take everything so personally especially where there was no intent to insult.
I have tried to be distant, my main thrust has-been that the notes can be made without tallow pretty easily. The debate has spun into other areas with faux outrage that vegetarians and others have the temerity to have a view. I am not 'taking it personally ', it is more as if the very existence of vegetarians provokes carnivores, personally, because that very existence acts as a commentary on what carnivores consume, and it is unwelcome to them.
This debate has not been stifled in my opinion. There have been at least 28 posts this morning alone, from 11 different posters. Does not seem like a stifled debate at all.
Most people don't care or think about what is in the new 'polymer' note, a minority of people do. It feels the debate on here is the indifferent castigating others for having an opinion on the matter. The note is mainly made of plastic-like material with the production and recycling issues associated with those materials. There may well be a half-cow amount of tallow in all the notes produced, a similarly small and cheap synthetic alternative could be used which would hardly make the polymer note any more environmentally unfriendly than it already is. There is barely an issue here, there has been a poorly thought through production plan, which now the issue has been flagged up could easily be changed. The issue has provided the vegetarian despisers with an open door to push at in their view by saying it is such a tiny issue. The truth seems to me that it is and was never an issue for carnivores, but it is one for vegetarians which can easily be fixed. It is not anything like a tail wagging a dog, but a desire for a small manageable change that respects the point of view of some people. What intrigues me is the vehemence associated with some anti vegetarians, or should I say those who hate vegetarians for saying anything.
Seth. Who on earth is or has suggested they "despise vegetarians" ? I would think that most people when they even give it a moments thought think veggies to be principled if not a little bit fringe.
Please don't try to take everything so personally especially where there was no intent to insult.
I have tried to be distant, my main thrust has-been that the notes can be made without tallow pretty easily. The debate has spun into other areas with faux outrage that vegetarians and others have the temerity to have a view. I am not 'taking it personally ', it is more as if the very existence of vegetarians provokes carnivores, personally, because that very existence acts as a commentary on what carnivores consume, and it is unwelcome to them.
First point you are correct. Notes can be made without using tallow. What is clear about that though is that using a synthetic alternative would in all probability have a far greater impact on the environment than using the already available animal bi product regardless of any moral argument.
This is a forum discussion which is bound to have at the very least two sides of the argument. Your assertion that the mere existence of the vegetarian argument antagonises non veggies is perhaps a little self grandiose because in the main I certainly give the existence of the vegetarian community on a daily basis less thought as Duchatelet gives CAFC. That's not meant to be a snide comment but merely the truth.
Good for you that you choose to be a veggie. As I have said before in many ways I applaud that but don't think that pergorrative stance is a one way street. The classic veggie statement "Meat is murder" is pretty judgemental ?
Comments
Moving on to another point, I think most of this thread has been generally respectful. I can't see any ignorant comments, it got a bit unique when it was suggested that we could replacing pastoral land for arable, but then maybe that suggesting was a bit naive at best anyway.
What is naive about this?
Fiiish has put the case why even the Vegan argument is nonsensical.
In any case. Regardless of what's happened you already have your victory. Do you really think that the BoE will now produce another note using tallow in the formula ?
It's a classic case of a vociferous minority having a disproportionate say in the way things are run and our money spent even when the logic is unsound.
Sorry, this is nothing like how you came over earlier, the Amazon rain forests weren't mentioned.
What you're saying now however, I would say most meat eaters would agree with, not just in the Amazon, but any other habitats around the world that are under threat.
After the loggers / mining firms have destroyed parts the rain forest it is used for both arable and pastoral farming etc., IMO This is nothing to do with being a meat eater or veggie, but knowing where your food comes from whether it's meat, cereal or whatever.
Pass
The issue was escalated via Social media and a lot of people have voiced their opposition.
How many times......the amount of tallow isn't the issue. The point is that it shouldn't have been there in the first place.
"Regardless of what's happened you already have your victory".
Premature. The issue has yet to be resolved so "victory" is not yet achieved.
"Do you really think that the BoE will now produce another note using tallow in the formula ? "
No, Dave, I don't think that.
Besides I'm a professionally trained chef fuck am I buying processed beef burgers off the shelves.
Mince from the butcher and make my own, much better
It feels the debate on here is the indifferent castigating others for having an opinion on the matter.
The note is mainly made of plastic-like material with the production and recycling issues associated with those materials. There may well be a half-cow amount of tallow in all the notes produced, a similarly small and cheap synthetic alternative could be used which would hardly make the polymer note any more environmentally unfriendly than it already is.
There is barely an issue here, there has been a poorly thought through production plan, which now the issue has been flagged up could easily be changed.
The issue has provided the vegetarian despisers with an open door to push at in their view by saying it is such a tiny issue. The truth seems to me that it is and was never an issue for carnivores, but it is one for vegetarians which can easily be fixed. It is not anything like a tail wagging a dog, but a desire for a small manageable change that respects the point of view of some people.
What intrigues me is the vehemence associated with some anti vegetarians, or should I say those who hate vegetarians for saying anything.
The miniscule minority has spoken and like in much of this crazy old country people give way because it's just too damned difficult not to.
Eat beef raw do you? Or is it the seasoning and cooking method that makes it taste 'good'?
Please don't try to take everything so personally especially where there was no intent to insult.
Indeed the cow and leather industry has a huge environmental impact itself, and it is an industry that is not sweet pink and fluffy as you see in the TV adverts of lovely space rich cattle grazing verdant open spaces under a sunny blue sky.
Charlton Life is such a good forum in that, whilst its rasion d'etre is CAFC, there are threads on numerous topics other than football. A splendid place in which to challenge orthodoxy.
The ignorance, opprobrium and cheap 'jokes' are to be expected. It won't stop us.
The debate has spun into other areas with faux outrage that vegetarians and others have the temerity to have a view.
I am not 'taking it personally ', it is more as if the very existence of vegetarians provokes carnivores, personally, because that very existence acts as a commentary on what carnivores consume, and it is unwelcome to them.
This is a forum discussion which is bound to have at the very least two sides of the argument. Your assertion that the mere existence of the vegetarian argument antagonises non veggies is perhaps a little self grandiose because in the main I certainly give the existence of the vegetarian community on a daily basis less thought as Duchatelet gives CAFC. That's not meant to be a snide comment but merely the truth.
Good for you that you choose to be a veggie. As I have said before in many ways I applaud that but don't think that pergorrative stance is a one way street. The classic veggie statement "Meat is murder" is pretty judgemental ?