I understood why they were doing it, it's down to England to negate the tactic and I think they did. Look how much chaos Bolton used to cause at set plays when Allardyce just played to a stupid change to the offside rules.
I thought it made for a good game and I don't blame Italy for trying to do something different and innovative to compete
I have gone from a person who had only contempt for rugby, to someone who grudgingly accepted rugby, to someone who started to like what I could understand ( with difficulty ) about rugby, to someone who "got" rugby, to someone who enjoyed rugby, to now, where I enjoy rugby more than football (on the odd occasion ). Our illustrious owners are part to blame, of course, but the modern game of football isn't entirely blameless either. Come on England!
I have gone from a person who had only contempt for rugby, to someone who grudgingly accepted rugby, to someone who started to like what I could understand ( with difficulty ) about rugby, to someone who "got" rugby, to someone who enjoyed rugby, to now, where I enjoy rugby more than football (on the odd occasion ). Our illustrious owners are part to blame, of course, but the modern game of football isn't entirely blameless either. Come on England!
(Roland's making an offer to buy England. He thinks he can flog the best players to the NFL. And they'll be playing on 3G at Sparrows Lane next season)
I have gone from a person who had only contempt for rugby, to someone who grudgingly accepted rugby, to someone who started to like what I could understand ( with difficulty ) about rugby, to someone who "got" rugby, to someone who enjoyed rugby, to now, where I enjoy rugby more than football (on the odd occasion ). Our illustrious owners are part to blame, of course, but the modern game of football isn't entirely blameless either. Come on England!
(Roland's making an offer to buy England. He thinks he can flog the best players to the NFL. And they'll be playing on 3G at Sparrows Lane next season)
I'm half-Italian so maybe a bit biased, but comments like Eddie Jones' ("If that’s rugby then I’m going to retire, because that’s not rugby") annoyed me, not to mention Matt Dawson's tweet, the tone of which is the kind of thing that puts many English sports fans off supporting their rugby team IMO. "Ruined the spectacle", "fans should ask for their money back"... Personally I thought it was more of a spectacle watching a close game rather than one in which the outcome is decided 5-10 minutes in (with England on their way to the 70 or 80 points many predicted). And it was fascinating to see how England would adapt, which they eventually did, winning the game with a bonus point some good late tries (I might have understood Jones' comments a little more if England had lost or missed out on a bonus point).
It's a bit like Mourinho types implying that Hull or Sunderland should just come to Old Trafford playing 4 up front and trying to play attacking football, leaving themselves open at the back. What nonsense! Provided they stick to the laws of the game (as Italy clearly did), why shouldn't underdogs employ surprise tactics? It's remarkable that the number 2-ranked team in the world struggled so much for so long (as has been pointed out, in many ways it's easier to play against) and it was shocking that so few of their players seemed to be familiar with his part of the rule book.
I'm half-Italian so maybe a bit biased, but comments like Eddie Jones' ("If that’s rugby then I’m going to retire, because that’s not rugby") annoyed me, not to mention Matt Dawson's tweet, the tone of which is the kind of thing that puts many English sports fans off supporting their rugby team IMO. "Ruined the spectacle", "fans should ask for their money back"... Personally I thought it was more of a spectacle watching a close game rather than one in which the outcome is decided 5-10 minutes in (with England on their way to the 70 or 80 points many predicted). And it was fascinating to see how England would adapt, which they eventually did, winning the game with a bonus point some good late tries (I might have understood Jones' comments a little more if England had lost or missed out on a bonus point).
It's a bit like Mourinho types implying that Hull or Sunderland should just come to Old Trafford playing 4 up front and trying to play attacking football, leaving themselves open at the back. What nonsense! Provided they stick to the laws of the game (as Italy clearly did), why shouldn't underdogs employ surprise tactics? It's remarkable that the number 2-ranked team in the world struggled so much for so long (as has been pointed out, in many ways it's easier to play against) and it was shocking that so few of their players seemed to be familiar with his part of the rule book.
Fair comments. Don't see why being half Italian should make you biased, if your other half is English? As a nieve rugby fan, I liked the interpretation of the rules the Italian team used to their advantage. But in the end, our ( England's ) class shined through. I certainly would not be asking for money back or saying it ruined the spectacle Zaki.
If anything I think it was more of a spectacle with England trailing in a game they were expected to breeze through. The coaches clearly worked it out but the players didn't and until half time they were bemused and totally clueless on how to deal with the, entirely legal, Italian tactics.
Reminds me slightly of the last Ashes when Ashton Agar nearly saw Australia home in a large chase. It was his debut, and he nearly scored a ton before the coaches figured out a way to beat him. The ting was, the bowlers weren't able to figure it out themselves. Are sportspeople now coached to such an extent and so reliant on the support teams that they are utterly unable to think for themselves?
England played the Aussies the week after they had employed the same tactic against Ireland. Paul Gustard, England's defence coach, was asked how England would cope & his response was that they knew the tactic and would have plans in place for it. Seems the England players have memory problems as they had to be told at half time how to combat it.
O'Shea and Venter should be applauded for trying something different (and legal) to give their team a competitive advantage. It was never going to work all game, but they took a hammering in their last game and would have taken another by just going out and changing nothing.
If anything I think it was more of a spectacle with England trailing in a game they were expected to breeze through. The coaches clearly worked it out but the players didn't and until half time they were bemused and totally clueless on how to deal with the, entirely legal, Italian tactics.
The first recorded instance of 'entirely legal' and 'Italian' appearing in the same sentence together.
I'm half-Italian so maybe a bit biased, but comments like Eddie Jones' ("If that’s rugby then I’m going to retire, because that’s not rugby") annoyed me, not to mention Matt Dawson's tweet, the tone of which is the kind of thing that puts many English sports fans off supporting their rugby team IMO. "Ruined the spectacle", "fans should ask for their money back"... Personally I thought it was more of a spectacle watching a close game rather than one in which the outcome is decided 5-10 minutes in (with England on their way to the 70 or 80 points many predicted). And it was fascinating to see how England would adapt, which they eventually did, winning the game with a bonus point some good late tries (I might have understood Jones' comments a little more if England had lost or missed out on a bonus point).
It's a bit like Mourinho types implying that Hull or Sunderland should just come to Old Trafford playing 4 up front and trying to play attacking football, leaving themselves open at the back. What nonsense! Provided they stick to the laws of the game (as Italy clearly did), why shouldn't underdogs employ surprise tactics? It's remarkable that the number 2-ranked team in the world struggled so much for so long (as has been pointed out, in many ways it's easier to play against) and it was shocking that so few of their players seemed to be familiar with his part of the rule book.
Fair comments. Don't see why being half Italian should make you biased, if your other half is English? As a nieve rugby fan, I liked the interpretation of the rules the Italian team used to their advantage. But in the end, our ( England's ) class shined through. I certainly would not be asking for money back or saying it ruined the spectacle Zaki.
Half-English, yeah. Great! Exactly! England eventually did adapt and got the tries and bonus point they wanted, so I don't know what he's moaning about. Maybe he's just worried about how unsettled England were by a tactic they hadn't come across before and what that tells stronger international teams, who might now be encouraged to try something different themselves when they face England.
I'm half-Italian so maybe a bit biased, but comments like Eddie Jones' ("If that’s rugby then I’m going to retire, because that’s not rugby") annoyed me, not to mention Matt Dawson's tweet, the tone of which is the kind of thing that puts many English sports fans off supporting their rugby team IMO. "Ruined the spectacle", "fans should ask for their money back"... Personally I thought it was more of a spectacle watching a close game rather than one in which the outcome is decided 5-10 minutes in (with England on their way to the 70 or 80 points many predicted). And it was fascinating to see how England would adapt, which they eventually did, winning the game with a bonus point some good late tries (I might have understood Jones' comments a little more if England had lost or missed out on a bonus point).
It's a bit like Mourinho types implying that Hull or Sunderland should just come to Old Trafford playing 4 up front and trying to play attacking football, leaving themselves open at the back. What nonsense! Provided they stick to the laws of the game (as Italy clearly did), why shouldn't underdogs employ surprise tactics? It's remarkable that the number 2-ranked team in the world struggled so much for so long (as has been pointed out, in many ways it's easier to play against) and it was shocking that so few of their players seemed to be familiar with his part of the rule book.
Fair comments. Don't see why being half Italian should make you biased, if your other half is English? As a nieve rugby fan, I liked the interpretation of the rules the Italian team used to their advantage. But in the end, our ( England's ) class shined through. I certainly would not be asking for money back or saying it ruined the spectacle Zaki.
Half-English, yeah. Great! Exactly! England eventually did adapt and got the tries and bonus point they wanted, so I don't know what he's moaning about. Maybe he's just worried about how unsettled England were by a tactic they hadn't come across before and what that tells stronger international teams, who might now be encouraged to try something different themselves when they face England.
Eddie Jones has become what Eddie Jones would call a "whinging Pom"!
At least something for the English haters to cling onto, as if they need it! Certainly livened the game up on tv. Once they got their heads back together some of the handling and play the English made was impressive.
Fair play to the Italians for using the laws to their advantage and coming up with a creative approach. It created a pretty dire spectacle but can't blame them for it as otherwise they would have just been hammered by 70 points.
Slightly concerning it took England so long to work out how to deal with it, but they did in the end and got the win and the bonus point so all good.
Expect they will be very fired up for Scotland now after a pretty frustrating day. WE certainly need to be, Scotland are looking very dangerous.
I fancy Ireland to beat Wales and Scotland to give England problems tomorrow before a Red Rose win .. looks as though Joseph will play and not Te'o, I am surprised at this .. hope that Farrell is fit
Joseph is dropped in favour of T'eo .. I doubt he'll be back for a while ... size matters in the centre (as the Actress said to the Bishop) .. Jones has selected a very strong team with few changes, proof perhaps that the bonus point system has had and will continue to have a big effect on selection, no room for experiment or sentiment when a try or two can make the difference between first and second .. I expect England to put 60+ points on Italy in a total mismatch
Has Jossph been dropped or just rested?
I would think dropped .. Te'o has done well coming on as a sub and Joseph is way out of form .. too small to be a 'blockbuster' and he just cannot get into space to run or find a decent pass .. also, Jones has picked a team to do real number on Italy .. if it does, I suspect that the only positions at issue for the rest of the games would be on the wing and in the pack when/if the Vunipolas are fit to play again .. Care might stay in for Youngs but they are both pretty similar with Care being a wee bit more 'flamboyant'
@Cardinal Sin .. I didn't realise that the European nations beneath the 6 nations were so organised .. thanks for the info
Costly mistake from Henshaw, not sure what Sexton could do for the yellow card. Hard fought game from both sides. No one picked up the forward pass in the first try.
Comments
I thought it made for a good game and I don't blame Italy for trying to do something different and innovative to compete
It's a bit like Mourinho types implying that Hull or Sunderland should just come to Old Trafford playing 4 up front and trying to play attacking football, leaving themselves open at the back. What nonsense! Provided they stick to the laws of the game (as Italy clearly did), why shouldn't underdogs employ surprise tactics? It's remarkable that the number 2-ranked team in the world struggled so much for so long (as has been pointed out, in many ways it's easier to play against) and it was shocking that so few of their players seemed to be familiar with his part of the rule book.
O'Shea and Venter should be applauded for trying something different (and legal) to give their team a competitive advantage. It was never going to work all game, but they took a hammering in their last game and would have taken another by just going out and changing nothing.
Eddie Jones has become what Eddie Jones would call a "whinging Pom"!
Slightly concerning it took England so long to work out how to deal with it, but they did in the end and got the win and the bonus point so all good.
Expect they will be very fired up for Scotland now after a pretty frustrating day. WE certainly need to be, Scotland are looking very dangerous.
Here's to Scotland keeping the competition open.