Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
So I’m assuming JS that they have submitted the outstanding piece of paperwork that the club said the EFL needed back in June 2018?
"When selling the owner takes into account the probability of securing the long-term
future of the club and minimise the risk of the club going bust. "
Why?
Because it's likely that new owners wouldn't pay (whatever sum is agreed) up front in total. Payments would be staggered over several seasons/years/on reaching certain targets - whatever. So it's in RD'd interest that the club remains solvent - otherwise he wouldn't get the subsequent payments.
Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
So I’m assuming JS that they have submitted the outstanding piece of paperwork that the club said the EFL needed back in June 2018?
‘The club said’, or Lieven/Roland said?
Don't they represent the club?
I’m going to have a wild guess and say No.
Then who would you guess they are representing?
I’m going to have another wild guess now, and say Roland.
"When selling the owner takes into account the probability of securing the long-term
future of the club and minimise the risk of the club going bust. "
Why?
Because it's likely that new owners wouldn't pay (whatever sum is agreed) up front in total. Payments would be staggered over several seasons/years/on reaching certain targets - whatever. So it's in RD'd interest that the club remains solvent - otherwise he wouldn't get the subsequent payments.
"When selling the owner takes into account the probability of securing the long-term
future of the club and minimise the risk of the club going bust. "
Why?
This implies there has been a bid or bids that match the valuation, but Roland hasn't taken them because of "moral" reasons.
Roland, you have no moral responsibility to do this, and you are not going to be seen by most fans as our great saviour and protector. You will not be remembered fondly, whatever you do now. If you have the chance, no one will blame you for taking your money and running, even if you do sell to the equivalent of the spivs. After all, it's just business, right? No room for sentiment.
Of course, I would prefer you to sell to somebody trustworthy, with the club's best interests at heart...it's just not your responsibility to vet them, and decide what's best. That's part of what the EFL (supposedly) do.
Surely the fans will deal with the new owners as and when, and judge them on their own merits?
I suspect it has more to do with any future payments he would negotiate and likelihood of receiving those payments rather than the clubs short / long term well being.
Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
So I’m assuming JS that they have submitted the outstanding piece of paperwork that the club said the EFL needed back in June 2018?
‘The club said’, or Lieven/Roland said?
Don't they represent the club?
I’m going to have a wild guess and say No.
Then who would you guess they are representing?
I’m going to have another wild guess now, and say Roland.
Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
So I’m assuming JS that they have submitted the outstanding piece of paperwork that the club said the EFL needed back in June 2018?
‘The club said’, or Lieven/Roland said?
Don't they represent the club?
I'll always argue that we, the fans, are the club but in this context the pair of incompetents De Turck and Duchatelet and "the club" are the same thing ie the regime that owns the business.
Point is the regime said it was only some paperwork to the EFL holding up the deal.
Like they said David White had agreed to be flexible with his bond.
Like they said the bonds maybe time limited
Like they said the protests were only 2% of the fans
The regime lies quite a lot and the submit paperwork to EFL might just be one of them. Why does anyone believe what the regime says?
I really wish the Aussies would do what Dalman has done and brief the press off the record to put their side of the story. That would be biased and slanted in their favour just as all briefings are but at least we'd have more information.
I've never got the hatred/mistrust of the Aussies because I just don't know enough about them.
That doesn't mean I'm not cautious about them, their funding or their intentions because I am. I'm equally cautious about Dalman (who were his backers? what were/are his plans?) and any other buyers.
But let's not use the lies of the regime as evidence against the Aussies or anyone else. That is what Duchatelet wants.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the ex-directors for the delay, not him.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the Aussies for the delay, not him.
Yes the club lies, as much, if not more than it tells the truth, but they still said it and it was 'kinda' backed up by the EFL, who would have no reason to lie.
The EFL said they'd investigate the unpaid bonuses and the situation at Charlton. No reason to lie?
As you say the EFL only "kinda" backed up what the regime said
@pragueaddick said that "the EFL told three CAST delegates, of which I was one, in late October, that they had not submitted all the paperwork at that time."
Not "The lack of paperwork is the only thing holding up the deal."
I reiterate, I think the Aussies and GM have brought a lot of this on themselves by being so secretive and by issuing joint statements with the regime. It's natural to question them after so long but overriding all of that is that Duchatelet is the liar and Duchatelet is the problem.
Roland is a cynical and chaotic operator, who is prepared to spin any number of lines. One of his favourite mantras is that the high running costs are putting off buyers - i.e. it’s nothing to do with his inflated price
Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
So I’m assuming JS that they have submitted the outstanding piece of paperwork that the club said the EFL needed back in June 2018?
‘The club said’, or Lieven/Roland said?
Don't they represent the club?
I’m going to have a wild guess and say No.
Then who would you guess they are representing?
I’m going to have another wild guess now, and say Roland.
The same Roland who owns the club?
I refer the gentleman to the answer given by my right honourable friend @Henry Irving a short time go. He summed up my feeling on this matter much better that I could.
Roland is a cynical and chaotic operator, who is prepared to spin any number of lines. One of his favourite mantras is that the high running costs are putting off buyers - i.e. it’s nothing to do with his inflated price
Very true.
As Airman Brown pointed out, just look at the regime's handling of the Bowyer contract.
LDT left it hanging for ages to the point that LB was briefing the press about it.
Duchatelet then issues another of his bizarre statements, blaming Bowyer and his agent but without telling Bowyer.
He then rings Bowyer himself and does a deal.
Now this is just one example, there are many more.
If that is how he handles the relatively simple task of extending the contract of an existing employee how the feck do people think he deals with a sale of the entire club.
Duchatelet is irrational and he is chaotic, he lies.
Duchatelet is and always has been the blockage to a sale, not the potential buyers.
Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
So I’m assuming JS that they have submitted the outstanding piece of paperwork that the club said the EFL needed back in June 2018?
‘The club said’, or Lieven/Roland said?
Don't they represent the club?
I'll always argue that we, the fans, are the club but in this context the pair of incompetents De Turck and Duchatelet and "the club" are the same thing ie the regime that owns the business.
Point is the regime said it was only some paperwork to the EFL holding up the deal.
Like they said David White had agreed to be flexible with his bond.
Like they said the bonds maybe time limited
Like they said the protests were only 2% of the fans
The regime lies quite a lot and the submit paperwork to EFL might just be one of them. Why does anyone believe what the regime says?
I really wish the Aussies would do what Dalman has done and brief the press off the record to put their side of the story. That would be biased and slanted in their favour just as all briefings are but at least we'd have more information.
I've never got the hatred/mistrust of the Aussies because I just don't know enough about them.
That doesn't mean I'm not cautious about them, their funding or their intentions because I am. I'm equally cautious about Dalman (who were his backers? what were/are his plans?) and any other buyers.
But let's not use the lies of the regime as evidence against the Aussies or anyone else. That is what Duchatelet wants.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the ex-directors for the delay, not him.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the Aussies for the delay, not him.
Yes the club lies, as much, if not more than it tells the truth, but they still said it and it was 'kinda' backed up by the EFL, who would have no reason to lie.
The EFL said they'd investigate the unpaid bonuses and the situation at Charlton. No reason to lie?
As you say the EFL only "kinda" backed up what the regime said
@pragueaddick said that "the EFL told three CAST delegates, of which I was one, in late October, that they had not submitted all the paperwork at that time."
Not "The lack of paperwork is the only thing holding up the deal."
I reiterate, I think the Aussies and GM have brought a lot of this on themselves by being so secretive and by issuing joint statements with the regime. It's natural to question them after so long but overriding all of that is that Duchatelet is the liar and Duchatelet is the problem.
That part is 100% correct.
However with regards to the bonuses, it would appear the did investigate, they even told RD paying the bonuses would be a great way to build 'goodwill', what else did you expect them to do? They can't make RD pay something he's not legally bound to pay. Not sure that's a lie, it's just not what we wanted, although it's what some of us expected.
Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
So I’m assuming JS that they have submitted the outstanding piece of paperwork that the club said the EFL needed back in June 2018?
‘The club said’, or Lieven/Roland said?
Don't they represent the club?
I'll always argue that we, the fans, are the club but in this context the pair of incompetents De Turck and Duchatelet and "the club" are the same thing ie the regime that owns the business.
Point is the regime said it was only some paperwork to the EFL holding up the deal.
Like they said David White had agreed to be flexible with his bond.
Like they said the bonds maybe time limited
Like they said the protests were only 2% of the fans
The regime lies quite a lot and the submit paperwork to EFL might just be one of them. Why does anyone believe what the regime says?
I really wish the Aussies would do what Dalman has done and brief the press off the record to put their side of the story. That would be biased and slanted in their favour just as all briefings are but at least we'd have more information.
I've never got the hatred/mistrust of the Aussies because I just don't know enough about them.
That doesn't mean I'm not cautious about them, their funding or their intentions because I am. I'm equally cautious about Dalman (who were his backers? what were/are his plans?) and any other buyers.
But let's not use the lies of the regime as evidence against the Aussies or anyone else. That is what Duchatelet wants.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the ex-directors for the delay, not him.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the Aussies for the delay, not him.
Yes the club lies, as much, if not more than it tells the truth, but they still said it and it was 'kinda' backed up by the EFL, who would have no reason to lie.
The EFL said they'd investigate the unpaid bonuses and the situation at Charlton. No reason to lie?
As you say the EFL only "kinda" backed up what the regime said
@pragueaddick said that "the EFL told three CAST delegates, of which I was one, in late October, that they had not submitted all the paperwork at that time."
Not "The lack of paperwork is the only thing holding up the deal."
I reiterate, I think the Aussies and GM have brought a lot of this on themselves by being so secretive and by issuing joint statements with the regime. It's natural to question them after so long but overriding all of that is that Duchatelet is the liar and Duchatelet is the problem.
That part is 100% correct.
However with regards to the bonuses, it would appear the did investigate, they even told RD paying the bonuses would be a great way to build 'goodwill', what else did you expect them to do? They can't make RD pay something he's not legally bound to pay. Not sure that's a lie, it's just not what we wanted, although it's what some of us expected.
They could have been honest and say that they DID see written evidence that the bonuses were not contingent with company profitability.
They saw it when it was handed to them. The evidence was so strong that even Chris Parkes, who was at the meeting, accepted it and said he'd speak to LDT about it.
They can't make Duchatelet pay but they sure could have done a lot more. They certainly lied when they said they hadn't seen evidence.
1874, one of the greatest ever Britons born, Winston Churchill.
My first serious post for years ! Between 39-45 I concur but lots of working class folk didn't want him in peace time. And many London port Authority workers didn't want to transport his body up the Thames in Feb 65. I did a school project on him when young and I don't live that far from Chartwell, Westerham and being a NT member enjoy going there a few times a year. A very interesting strong character who was a man of his times and rich upbringing. He was flawed in many ways but was the main individual who made sure we didn't go the same way as France, Holland, Poland etc. Oh yes.
Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
I know you're trying to be cute with that 4% comment but I don't find that funny at all.
Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
So I’m assuming JS that they have submitted the outstanding piece of paperwork that the club said the EFL needed back in June 2018?
‘The club said’, or Lieven/Roland said?
Don't they represent the club?
I'll always argue that we, the fans, are the club but in this context the pair of incompetents De Turck and Duchatelet and "the club" are the same thing ie the regime that owns the business.
Point is the regime said it was only some paperwork to the EFL holding up the deal.
Like they said David White had agreed to be flexible with his bond.
Like they said the bonds maybe time limited
Like they said the protests were only 2% of the fans
The regime lies quite a lot and the submit paperwork to EFL might just be one of them. Why does anyone believe what the regime says?
I really wish the Aussies would do what Dalman has done and brief the press off the record to put their side of the story. That would be biased and slanted in their favour just as all briefings are but at least we'd have more information.
I've never got the hatred/mistrust of the Aussies because I just don't know enough about them.
That doesn't mean I'm not cautious about them, their funding or their intentions because I am. I'm equally cautious about Dalman (who were his backers? what were/are his plans?) and any other buyers.
But let's not use the lies of the regime as evidence against the Aussies or anyone else. That is what Duchatelet wants.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the ex-directors for the delay, not him.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the Aussies for the delay, not him.
Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
So I’m assuming JS that they have submitted the outstanding piece of paperwork that the club said the EFL needed back in June 2018?
‘The club said’, or Lieven/Roland said?
Don't they represent the club?
I'll always argue that we, the fans, are the club but in this context the pair of incompetents De Turck and Duchatelet and "the club" are the same thing ie the regime that owns the business.
Point is the regime said it was only some paperwork to the EFL holding up the deal.
Like they said David White had agreed to be flexible with his bond.
Like they said the bonds maybe time limited
Like they said the protests were only 2% of the fans
The regime lies quite a lot and the submit paperwork to EFL might just be one of them. Why does anyone believe what the regime says?
I really wish the Aussies would do what Dalman has done and brief the press off the record to put their side of the story. That would be biased and slanted in their favour just as all briefings are but at least we'd have more information.
I've never got the hatred/mistrust of the Aussies because I just don't know enough about them.
That doesn't mean I'm not cautious about them, their funding or their intentions because I am. I'm equally cautious about Dalman (who were his backers? what were/are his plans?) and any other buyers.
But let's not use the lies of the regime as evidence against the Aussies or anyone else. That is what Duchatelet wants.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the ex-directors for the delay, not him.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the Aussies for the delay, not him.
Yes the club lies, as much, if not more than it tells the truth, but they still said it and it was 'kinda' backed up by the EFL, who would have no reason to lie.
The EFL said they'd investigate the unpaid bonuses and the situation at Charlton. No reason to lie?
As you say the EFL only "kinda" backed up what the regime said
@pragueaddick said that "the EFL told three CAST delegates, of which I was one, in late October, that they had not submitted all the paperwork at that time."
Not "The lack of paperwork is the only thing holding up the deal."
I reiterate, I think the Aussies and GM have brought a lot of this on themselves by being so secretive and by issuing joint statements with the regime. It's natural to question them after so long but overriding all of that is that Duchatelet is the liar and Duchatelet is the problem.
That part is 100% correct.
However with regards to the bonuses, it would appear the did investigate, they even told RD paying the bonuses would be a great way to build 'goodwill', what else did you expect them to do? They can't make RD pay something he's not legally bound to pay. Not sure that's a lie, it's just not what we wanted, although it's what some of us expected.
They could have been honest and say that they DID see written evidence that the bonuses were not contingent with company profitability.
They saw it when it was handed to them. The evidence was so strong that even Chris Parkes, who was at the meeting, accepted it and said he'd speak to LDT about it.
They can't make Duchatelet pay but they sure could have done a lot more. They certainly lied when they said they hadn't seen evidence.
What more could they have done? As far as I'm aware the EFL are pretty toothless, which is a shame when you consider how many clubs are affected by batshit owners.
I also wonder why we've seen no further action from staff if they were indeed legally entitled to those bonuses, although it's really not really any of our business, so they may want to just get on with their lives, not how I'd go about it personally, but it's not on me.
Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
So I’m assuming JS that they have submitted the outstanding piece of paperwork that the club said the EFL needed back in June 2018?
‘The club said’, or Lieven/Roland said?
Don't they represent the club?
I'll always argue that we, the fans, are the club but in this context the pair of incompetents De Turck and Duchatelet and "the club" are the same thing ie the regime that owns the business.
Point is the regime said it was only some paperwork to the EFL holding up the deal.
Like they said David White had agreed to be flexible with his bond.
Like they said the bonds maybe time limited
Like they said the protests were only 2% of the fans
The regime lies quite a lot and the submit paperwork to EFL might just be one of them. Why does anyone believe what the regime says?
I really wish the Aussies would do what Dalman has done and brief the press off the record to put their side of the story. That would be biased and slanted in their favour just as all briefings are but at least we'd have more information.
I've never got the hatred/mistrust of the Aussies because I just don't know enough about them.
That doesn't mean I'm not cautious about them, their funding or their intentions because I am. I'm equally cautious about Dalman (who were his backers? what were/are his plans?) and any other buyers.
But let's not use the lies of the regime as evidence against the Aussies or anyone else. That is what Duchatelet wants.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the ex-directors for the delay, not him.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the Aussies for the delay, not him.
Yes the club lies, as much, if not more than it tells the truth, but they still said it and it was 'kinda' backed up by the EFL, who would have no reason to lie.
The EFL said they'd investigate the unpaid bonuses and the situation at Charlton. No reason to lie?
As you say the EFL only "kinda" backed up what the regime said
@pragueaddick said that "the EFL told three CAST delegates, of which I was one, in late October, that they had not submitted all the paperwork at that time."
Not "The lack of paperwork is the only thing holding up the deal."
I reiterate, I think the Aussies and GM have brought a lot of this on themselves by being so secretive and by issuing joint statements with the regime. It's natural to question them after so long but overriding all of that is that Duchatelet is the liar and Duchatelet is the problem.
That part is 100% correct.
However with regards to the bonuses, it would appear the did investigate, they even told RD paying the bonuses would be a great way to build 'goodwill', what else did you expect them to do? They can't make RD pay something he's not legally bound to pay. Not sure that's a lie, it's just not what we wanted, although it's what some of us expected.
They could have been honest and say that they DID see written evidence that the bonuses were not contingent with company profitability.
They saw it when it was handed to them. The evidence was so strong that even Chris Parkes, who was at the meeting, accepted it and said he'd speak to LDT about it.
They can't make Duchatelet pay but they sure could have done a lot more. They certainly lied when they said they hadn't seen evidence.
What more could they have done? As far as I'm aware the EFL are pretty toothless, which is a shame when you consider how many clubs are affected by batshit owners.
I also wonder why we've seen no further action from staff if they were indeed legally entitled to those bonuses, although it's really not really any of our business, so they may want to just get on with their lives, not how I'd go about it personally, but it's not on me.
They could be be honest and not lied.
They could have said that the evidence they had seen supported the staff and not Duchatelet's position.
The question about "wonder why we've seen no further action from staff if they were indeed legally entitled to those bonuses" comes over as victim blaming. "Oh, they stopped complaining so they can't have a case".
That may not mean what you meant but that's how it reads. We know they work for a lying, vindictive owner, maybe they don't want to be forced out of their jobs.
I don't see why it needs so much analysis or even a mention of RD, it was just a straight forward question of whether the Aussies have now submitted all the paperwork to the EFL for them to acquire the club should their purchase be agreed with RD.
Because according to the EFL a year ago they had not.
I'm not looking to knock the Aussies in any way. I'm just seeking to understand
1. has anything changed with them and their status over the last year, and
2. whether its just a case of RD saying yes / no to them as JS insinuated this morning. If he says 'yes' are they good to go, or would there still be further delaying paper submission / approval etc that will be required.
Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
So I’m assuming JS that they have submitted the outstanding piece of paperwork that the club said the EFL needed back in June 2018?
‘The club said’, or Lieven/Roland said?
Don't they represent the club?
I'll always argue that we, the fans, are the club but in this context the pair of incompetents De Turck and Duchatelet and "the club" are the same thing ie the regime that owns the business.
Point is the regime said it was only some paperwork to the EFL holding up the deal.
Like they said David White had agreed to be flexible with his bond.
Like they said the bonds maybe time limited
Like they said the protests were only 2% of the fans
The regime lies quite a lot and the submit paperwork to EFL might just be one of them. Why does anyone believe what the regime says?
I really wish the Aussies would do what Dalman has done and brief the press off the record to put their side of the story. That would be biased and slanted in their favour just as all briefings are but at least we'd have more information.
I've never got the hatred/mistrust of the Aussies because I just don't know enough about them.
That doesn't mean I'm not cautious about them, their funding or their intentions because I am. I'm equally cautious about Dalman (who were his backers? what were/are his plans?) and any other buyers.
But let's not use the lies of the regime as evidence against the Aussies or anyone else. That is what Duchatelet wants.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the ex-directors for the delay, not him.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the Aussies for the delay, not him.
Yes the club lies, as much, if not more than it tells the truth, but they still said it and it was 'kinda' backed up by the EFL, who would have no reason to lie.
The EFL said they'd investigate the unpaid bonuses and the situation at Charlton. No reason to lie?
As you say the EFL only "kinda" backed up what the regime said
@pragueaddick said that "the EFL told three CAST delegates, of which I was one, in late October, that they had not submitted all the paperwork at that time."
Not "The lack of paperwork is the only thing holding up the deal."
I reiterate, I think the Aussies and GM have brought a lot of this on themselves by being so secretive and by issuing joint statements with the regime. It's natural to question them after so long but overriding all of that is that Duchatelet is the liar and Duchatelet is the problem.
That part is 100% correct.
However with regards to the bonuses, it would appear the did investigate, they even told RD paying the bonuses would be a great way to build 'goodwill', what else did you expect them to do? They can't make RD pay something he's not legally bound to pay. Not sure that's a lie, it's just not what we wanted, although it's what some of us expected.
They could have been honest and say that they DID see written evidence that the bonuses were not contingent with company profitability.
They saw it when it was handed to them. The evidence was so strong that even Chris Parkes, who was at the meeting, accepted it and said he'd speak to LDT about it.
They can't make Duchatelet pay but they sure could have done a lot more. They certainly lied when they said they hadn't seen evidence.
What more could they have done? As far as I'm aware the EFL are pretty toothless, which is a shame when you consider how many clubs are affected by batshit owners.
I also wonder why we've seen no further action from staff if they were indeed legally entitled to those bonuses, although it's really not really any of our business, so they may want to just get on with their lives, not how I'd go about it personally, but it's not on me.
They could be be honest and not lied.
They could have said that the evidence they had seen supported the staff and not Duchatelet's position.
The question about "wonder why we've seen no further action from staff if they were indeed legally entitled to those bonuses" comes over as victim blaming. "Oh, they stopped complaining so they can't have a case".
That may not mean what you meant but that's how it reads. We know they work for a lying, vindictive owner, maybe they don't want to be forced out of their jobs.
Certainly not how I meant it to come across but I thought there are laws against forcing people out of jobs after valid complaints.
Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
So I’m assuming JS that they have submitted the outstanding piece of paperwork that the club said the EFL needed back in June 2018?
‘The club said’, or Lieven/Roland said?
Don't they represent the club?
I'll always argue that we, the fans, are the club but in this context the pair of incompetents De Turck and Duchatelet and "the club" are the same thing ie the regime that owns the business.
Point is the regime said it was only some paperwork to the EFL holding up the deal.
Like they said David White had agreed to be flexible with his bond.
Like they said the bonds maybe time limited
Like they said the protests were only 2% of the fans
The regime lies quite a lot and the submit paperwork to EFL might just be one of them. Why does anyone believe what the regime says?
I really wish the Aussies would do what Dalman has done and brief the press off the record to put their side of the story. That would be biased and slanted in their favour just as all briefings are but at least we'd have more information.
I've never got the hatred/mistrust of the Aussies because I just don't know enough about them.
That doesn't mean I'm not cautious about them, their funding or their intentions because I am. I'm equally cautious about Dalman (who were his backers? what were/are his plans?) and any other buyers.
But let's not use the lies of the regime as evidence against the Aussies or anyone else. That is what Duchatelet wants.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the ex-directors for the delay, not him.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the Aussies for the delay, not him.
Yes the club lies, as much, if not more than it tells the truth, but they still said it and it was 'kinda' backed up by the EFL, who would have no reason to lie.
The EFL said they'd investigate the unpaid bonuses and the situation at Charlton. No reason to lie?
As you say the EFL only "kinda" backed up what the regime said
@pragueaddick said that "the EFL told three CAST delegates, of which I was one, in late October, that they had not submitted all the paperwork at that time."
Not "The lack of paperwork is the only thing holding up the deal."
I reiterate, I think the Aussies and GM have brought a lot of this on themselves by being so secretive and by issuing joint statements with the regime. It's natural to question them after so long but overriding all of that is that Duchatelet is the liar and Duchatelet is the problem.
I think some people's hatred of RD overrides any scepticism of anyone else sniffing around, including Dalman, the Assies, the Chinese etc.
As much as I can't stand the bloke, with regards to the Aussies, the 2 year delay can't just be down to RD or they would've surely / rightly walked with the rest months ago imo.
Has any other club sale been as complicated and drawn out as this one? Even I was beginning to blame the Aussies, but now the evidence points in another direction. If Dalman walks away you have to think this could literally go on for years.
So even you have lost faith in the Aussies then?
No, but they refuse to pay more than they think the club is worth. Roland reduced the price and then upped it again. He's playing games. But I guess I might prefer someone who was so rich they wouldn't care what the price was, but that's not realistic.
Why don't they just walk away then?
How much more time can they afford to waste? There are other clubs for sale.
I suppose because they’ve invested so much money in lawyers’ fees unravelling the historic legal issues. Over a million. Walking away wouldn’t make sense when you might be days away from Roland getting real. (I know, unlikely!)
It’s only Murphy who’s involved in negotiations, and he has other business interests. I think they have their bid lodged, and it’s up to Roland to say yes or no, rather than maybe.
So it’s not a 24/7 thing for GM. Probably just 4% of his time ;-)
So I’m assuming JS that they have submitted the outstanding piece of paperwork that the club said the EFL needed back in June 2018?
‘The club said’, or Lieven/Roland said?
Don't they represent the club?
I'll always argue that we, the fans, are the club but in this context the pair of incompetents De Turck and Duchatelet and "the club" are the same thing ie the regime that owns the business.
Point is the regime said it was only some paperwork to the EFL holding up the deal.
Like they said David White had agreed to be flexible with his bond.
Like they said the bonds maybe time limited
Like they said the protests were only 2% of the fans
The regime lies quite a lot and the submit paperwork to EFL might just be one of them. Why does anyone believe what the regime says?
I really wish the Aussies would do what Dalman has done and brief the press off the record to put their side of the story. That would be biased and slanted in their favour just as all briefings are but at least we'd have more information.
I've never got the hatred/mistrust of the Aussies because I just don't know enough about them.
That doesn't mean I'm not cautious about them, their funding or their intentions because I am. I'm equally cautious about Dalman (who were his backers? what were/are his plans?) and any other buyers.
But let's not use the lies of the regime as evidence against the Aussies or anyone else. That is what Duchatelet wants.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the ex-directors for the delay, not him.
Duchatelet wants the fans to blame the Aussies for the delay, not him.
Yes the club lies, as much, if not more than it tells the truth, but they still said it and it was 'kinda' backed up by the EFL, who would have no reason to lie.
The EFL said they'd investigate the unpaid bonuses and the situation at Charlton. No reason to lie?
As you say the EFL only "kinda" backed up what the regime said
@pragueaddick said that "the EFL told three CAST delegates, of which I was one, in late October, that they had not submitted all the paperwork at that time."
Not "The lack of paperwork is the only thing holding up the deal."
I reiterate, I think the Aussies and GM have brought a lot of this on themselves by being so secretive and by issuing joint statements with the regime. It's natural to question them after so long but overriding all of that is that Duchatelet is the liar and Duchatelet is the problem.
Roland is the problem, as Dalman and every other bid is finding.
It's not "Aussie bashing", and what I find astonishing is people not wanting to discuss the pros end cons of any potential new owner, but just being content on the present one going. Especialy after the last two..
People want to buy the club. That much is obvious. Like anyone buying anything you want to pay what what it’s worth within reason. There might be reasons to pay slightly over the odds if you want it that badly or because your interest is matched by others but on the whole that’s it.
The reason this football club has not been sold in two years of trying is not because of the buyers seeking to pay less than the going rate. This is solely down to the owner asking an unrealistic price and over and above that the owner is a very difficult person to do business with.
I dont buy into the theory that RD doesn’t really want to sell. If that was the case he could just say he’s keeping the club. He does want out but is irrational in his approach to getting out.
Will he sell ? Yes I’m sure he will but I wouldn’t bet on it being very soon or it could be tomorrow.
Comments
As you say the EFL only "kinda" backed up what the regime said
@pragueaddick said that "the EFL told three CAST delegates, of which I was one, in late October, that they had not submitted all the paperwork at that time."
Not "The lack of paperwork is the only thing holding up the deal."
I reiterate, I think the Aussies and GM have brought a lot of this on themselves by being so secretive and by issuing joint statements with the regime. It's natural to question them after so long but overriding all of that is that Duchatelet is the liar and Duchatelet is the problem.
As Airman Brown pointed out, just look at the regime's handling of the Bowyer contract.
LDT left it hanging for ages to the point that LB was briefing the press about it.
Duchatelet then issues another of his bizarre statements, blaming Bowyer and his agent but without telling Bowyer.
He then rings Bowyer himself and does a deal.
Now this is just one example, there are many more.
If that is how he handles the relatively simple task of extending the contract of an existing employee how the feck do people think he deals with a sale of the entire club.
Duchatelet is irrational and he is chaotic, he lies.
Duchatelet is and always has been the blockage to a sale, not the potential buyers.
However with regards to the bonuses, it would appear the did investigate, they even told RD paying the bonuses would be a great way to build 'goodwill', what else did you expect them to do? They can't make RD pay something he's not legally bound to pay. Not sure that's a lie, it's just not what we wanted, although it's what some of us expected.
They saw it when it was handed to them. The evidence was so strong that even Chris Parkes, who was at the meeting, accepted it and said he'd speak to LDT about it.
They can't make Duchatelet pay but they sure could have done a lot more. They certainly lied when they said they hadn't seen evidence.
Between 39-45 I concur but lots of working class folk didn't want him in peace time. And many London port Authority workers didn't want to transport his body up the Thames in Feb 65.
I did a school project on him when young and I don't live that far from Chartwell, Westerham and being a NT member enjoy going there a few times a year.
A very interesting strong character who was a man of his times and rich upbringing.
He was flawed in many ways but was the main individual who made sure we didn't go the same way as France, Holland, Poland etc. Oh yes.
I also wonder why we've seen no further action from staff if they were indeed legally entitled to those bonuses, although it's really not really any of our business, so they may want to just get on with their lives, not how I'd go about it personally, but it's not on me.
They could have said that the evidence they had seen supported the staff and not Duchatelet's position.
The question about "wonder why we've seen no further action from staff if they were indeed legally entitled to those bonuses" comes over as victim blaming. "Oh, they stopped complaining so they can't have a case".
That may not mean what you meant but that's how it reads. We know they work for a lying, vindictive owner, maybe they don't want to be forced out of their jobs.
I don't see why it needs so much analysis or even a mention of RD, it was just a straight forward question of whether the Aussies have now submitted all the paperwork to the EFL for them to acquire the club should their purchase be agreed with RD.
Because according to the EFL a year ago they had not.
I'm not looking to knock the Aussies in any way. I'm just seeking to understand
1. has anything changed with them and their status over the last year, and
2. whether its just a case of RD saying yes / no to them as JS insinuated this morning. If he says 'yes' are they good to go, or would there still be further delaying paper submission / approval etc that will be required.
As much as I can't stand the bloke, with regards to the Aussies, the 2 year delay can't just be down to RD or they would've surely / rightly walked with the rest months ago imo.
aaahhhhhh!
Roland is the problem, as Dalman and every other bid is finding.
The reason this football club has not been sold in two years of trying is not because of the buyers seeking to pay less than the going rate. This is solely down to the owner asking an unrealistic price and over and above that the owner is a very difficult person to do business with.
I dont buy into the theory that RD doesn’t really want to sell. If that was the case he could just say he’s keeping the club. He does want out but is irrational in his approach to getting out.
Will he sell ? Yes I’m sure he will but I wouldn’t bet on it being very soon or it could be tomorrow.