What is important is that Corbyn can keep power so a bad labour defeat will be a disaster.
.
What will be a disaster is another 5 years of the Tories in power and the further suffering that it will cause to decent working people. If Labour had a decent leader then it would have walked this election against a second rate Tory leader, a truly awful Tory campaign and seven years of austerity in which most people saw no improvement in their living standards. If Corbyn cannot win against such a weak government and record then he has demonstrated his ineffectiveness and should do the decent thing and go at once - and apologise for his failure as he leaves together with his gang. Another 5 years of the Labour Party being controlled by the Momentum Party will put an end to it being the broad church which is necessary to win elections.
Perhaps he could have done it if his party backed his members.
They have produced a manifesto which although flawed, is distinct, will certainly improve public services , and although I will pay a bit more tax, will certainly improve the lives of the many not the few to coin a phrase
I shall remembered this election cycle for the total and utter lack of vision that the Conservatives have shown. The manifesto devoid of any costings is a series of trite vague utterings that mean little or nothing.
The Tory leadership , by and large a group of wealthy establishment figures have sunk to the lowest form of political discourse, throwing mud , and downright lies. They have brought the political process into disrepute
Whatever else he is or isn't , JC has not once personaly abused his opponents, and indicator of the kind of man he is .
The mainstream right wing newspapers in this country are a total and utter disgrace. The Mail and The Express and The Sun the worst candidates. How they are allowed to preach their total lies and filth is beyond me and should worry any honest democrat
The Conservatives will win because older people will vote in droves and will in 85 out 100 cases votr Tory. My only hope is they have a small enough majority to make things tricky for them and The the Labour Party learn from the defeat and keep up the energy and momentum generated by the campaign and most importantly become an effective opposition
Just a brief note to say thanks for everyone who contributed to this thread and showed respect in listening - if not agreeing - to the views and opinions I posted.
As with every election thread we have had, I learnt so much from this and regardless of who is in power over the next five years wish everyone luck in whatever aspect of life was their main driver behind voting.
In a meeting almost all day at work so won't have much of a chance to get on this thread, if at all - so my final prediction is a hung parliament. I think Brexit showed a changing environment that drives voting in this country (driven by social media) when can't be ignored.
But given the events of the last few weeks - thank god we have this demcratic right to vote. It is that freedom that means everything.
Just a brief note to say thanks for everyone who contributed to this thread and showed respect in listening - if not agreeing - to the views and opinions I posted.
As with every election thread we have had, I learnt so much from this and regardless of who is in power over the next five years wish everyone luck in whatever aspect of life was their main driver behind voting.
In a meeting almost all day at work so won't have much of a chance to get on this thread, if at all - so my final prediction is a hung parliament. I think Brexit showed a changing environment that drives voting in this country (driven by social media) when can't be ignored.
But given the events of the last few weeks - thank god we have this demcratic right to vote. It is that freedom that means everything.
I wonder if it's natural to expect the worse as i expect Tories to gain seats.
Well I am afraid that I don't believe what some of the polls suggest. I reckon there will be a Tory majority of around 75, and the reason is this article from a very smart marketing bloke called Mark Ritson.
Unfortunately you will probably have to register to read it, but basically he is saying that the Tories havetow guys who really understand how to use Facebook to target messages to people in key constituencies (such as Eltham). He doesnt argue that the Tories have done anything illegal (other than the blatantly misleading ads themselves) nor does he suggest that Facebook as a company is helping the Tories. He doesnt rule out that Labour has recruited people who also understand how to use Facebook advertising effectively. He also believes that the Electoral Commission will be able to see how much they have spent, and not have a problem. The thing with Facebook is, how you spend it. Targetting. Here are some excerpts
I think the Conservatives might win a majority on Thursday because they are better at marketing. Specifically, digital marketing. More specifically, Facebook advertising. And even more specifically, because Tom Edmunds and Craig Elder are smarter than me, you and probably most other marketers in the country.
In 2015 the Conservative Party outspent Labour seven-fold on social media advertising and 50 times more than the Lib Dems. The Vote Leave campaign that secured Brexit spent 98% of its £6.8m budget on digital media (and most of that on Facebook); the same proportional spend should win the election once again later this week.
There might be 650 constituencies at stake on Thursday when Britain goes to the polls but the reality is that 85% of them are locked up as safe seats. This election will be won or lost on the 100 or so constituencies where two or more possible parties could win on Thursday. The first and most important strategic decision is to devote all of your digital budget to this small slice of Britain.
Traditionally, in an election campaign a party inevitably had to explain itself to the whole nation. With Facebook, however, all kinds of new possibilities present themselves. First, we can ignore the vast majority of voters, even in a target constituency, because we already know we have either got them or lost them. Instead we will target voters that are still likely to be making up their mind and still possible to convert to our cause.
But let’s not stop there. While we try to get undecideds to vote for us, we will be spending at least as much effort and budget on those that will vote for our rivals and persuading them not to bother.
Unlike traditional political advertising, which everyone gets to see and critique, Facebook ads are ‘dark’. That means other voters, other parties, even other supporters have no clue exactly who you are targeting with your ads. Never mind under-the-radar, Facebook advertising has no radar.
I keep getting ads to date hot Eastern Europeans.....
Although I did vote remain so perhaps the algorithms work
Well I am afraid that I don't believe what some of the polls suggest. I reckon there will be a Tory majority of around 75, and the reason is this article from a very smart marketing bloke called Mark Ritson.
Unfortunately you will probably have to register to read it, but basically he is saying that the Tories havetow guys who really understand how to use Facebook to target messages to people in key constituencies (such as Eltham). He doesnt argue that the Tories have done anything illegal (other than the blatantly misleading ads themselves) nor does he suggest that Facebook as a company is helping the Tories. He doesnt rule out that Labour has recruited people who also understand how to use Facebook advertising effectively. He also believes that the Electoral Commission will be able to see how much they have spent, and not have a problem. The thing with Facebook is, how you spend it. Targetting. Here are some excerpts
I think the Conservatives might win a majority on Thursday because they are better at marketing. Specifically, digital marketing. More specifically, Facebook advertising. And even more specifically, because Tom Edmunds and Craig Elder are smarter than me, you and probably most other marketers in the country.
In 2015 the Conservative Party outspent Labour seven-fold on social media advertising and 50 times more than the Lib Dems. The Vote Leave campaign that secured Brexit spent 98% of its £6.8m budget on digital media (and most of that on Facebook); the same proportional spend should win the election once again later this week.
There might be 650 constituencies at stake on Thursday when Britain goes to the polls but the reality is that 85% of them are locked up as safe seats. This election will be won or lost on the 100 or so constituencies where two or more possible parties could win on Thursday. The first and most important strategic decision is to devote all of your digital budget to this small slice of Britain.
Traditionally, in an election campaign a party inevitably had to explain itself to the whole nation. With Facebook, however, all kinds of new possibilities present themselves. First, we can ignore the vast majority of voters, even in a target constituency, because we already know we have either got them or lost them. Instead we will target voters that are still likely to be making up their mind and still possible to convert to our cause.
But let’s not stop there. While we try to get undecideds to vote for us, we will be spending at least as much effort and budget on those that will vote for our rivals and persuading them not to bother.
Unlike traditional political advertising, which everyone gets to see and critique, Facebook ads are ‘dark’. That means other voters, other parties, even other supporters have no clue exactly who you are targeting with your ads. Never mind under-the-radar, Facebook advertising has no radar.
I keep getting ads to date hot Eastern Europeans.....
Although I did vote remain so perhaps the algorithms work
Well I am afraid that I don't believe what some of the polls suggest. I reckon there will be a Tory majority of around 75, and the reason is this article from a very smart marketing bloke called Mark Ritson.
Unfortunately you will probably have to register to read it, but basically he is saying that the Tories havetow guys who really understand how to use Facebook to target messages to people in key constituencies (such as Eltham). He doesnt argue that the Tories have done anything illegal (other than the blatantly misleading ads themselves) nor does he suggest that Facebook as a company is helping the Tories. He doesnt rule out that Labour has recruited people who also understand how to use Facebook advertising effectively. He also believes that the Electoral Commission will be able to see how much they have spent, and not have a problem. The thing with Facebook is, how you spend it. Targetting. Here are some excerpts
I think the Conservatives might win a majority on Thursday because they are better at marketing. Specifically, digital marketing. More specifically, Facebook advertising. And even more specifically, because Tom Edmunds and Craig Elder are smarter than me, you and probably most other marketers in the country.
In 2015 the Conservative Party outspent Labour seven-fold on social media advertising and 50 times more than the Lib Dems. The Vote Leave campaign that secured Brexit spent 98% of its £6.8m budget on digital media (and most of that on Facebook); the same proportional spend should win the election once again later this week.
There might be 650 constituencies at stake on Thursday when Britain goes to the polls but the reality is that 85% of them are locked up as safe seats. This election will be won or lost on the 100 or so constituencies where two or more possible parties could win on Thursday. The first and most important strategic decision is to devote all of your digital budget to this small slice of Britain.
Traditionally, in an election campaign a party inevitably had to explain itself to the whole nation. With Facebook, however, all kinds of new possibilities present themselves. First, we can ignore the vast majority of voters, even in a target constituency, because we already know we have either got them or lost them. Instead we will target voters that are still likely to be making up their mind and still possible to convert to our cause.
But let’s not stop there. While we try to get undecideds to vote for us, we will be spending at least as much effort and budget on those that will vote for our rivals and persuading them not to bother.
Unlike traditional political advertising, which everyone gets to see and critique, Facebook ads are ‘dark’. That means other voters, other parties, even other supporters have no clue exactly who you are targeting with your ads. Never mind under-the-radar, Facebook advertising has no radar.
I keep getting ads to date hot Eastern Europeans.....
Although I did vote remain so perhaps the algorithms work
If it works out you might get an EU passport after all !
Thanks all for what's been on the whole a grown up debate without flags being thrown around. Would have been nice to have had some positive examples of the UK moving forward from those supporting the Tories. In the end we made it to page 200 without any - yay! But you can only play the hand you're dealt and this is absolutely reflected in the main stream media also, which mounted an incredibly negative campaign against the opposition. Was ever thus I suppose but this time around in seems worse than ever. We truly are in the era of fake news and media kingmakers.
As for a result, I can't see past the Tories increasing their majority to between 50-60 seats.
I shall be voting this morning. Not conservative. But as I said in an earlier post I live in a safe Tory borough so my vote will mean little. But haho we live in hope
Really enjoyed following this thread and learned a lot. Thanks everyone.
Hopefully there will be a time when newspapers don't influence elections, or at least so much. Hardly a free press if they act as political pamphlets. They have a thousand times more impact than political party broadcast and serve to simplify and stifle proper debate.
This is the start of a movement. Just the start. I will do all I can, and I know I can do only a little, to keep this going. We look through the great people of history and this campaign has caused me to find one of today. No personal insults, no opportunist comments, knowingly saying things that will be twisted, but saying them all the same. Sticking up for the vulnerable but with credible economic policies. There has been a change in British politics and a strong Labour performance, even in inevitable defeat, is going to be essential. The battle will now change to the people representing the establishment in the Labour party - I supported them before this election and I now see them for what they are. They will try to oust Corbyn but they won't be able to get through teh wall of people he has inspired.
was discussing this round the dinner table a fairer way of voting would be 2 votes one for your local mp, and then one vote for the running of the county, many people will like there local labour candidate but think corbyn isnt fit for pm.
A great thread that I've been following from afar, I live in a Tory held seat, but the sitting incumbent is facing a bit of a backlash, he has been the MP here since 1987, the Lib Dems are the main challengers and so for a very rare occasion I will be voting Lib Dem as voting for my normal party (Lab) will be wasted. Sadly I still believe we will have another 5 years of Tory rule, and I for one am not looking forward to what that may potentially mean. The amount of homeless on the streets of where I work (Coventry) has been increasing over last two years, food banks have appeared out of nowhere, and students are getting into more debt at the Uni I work in. Brexit seems to be on most peoples mind and will drive people to vote for May, yet there are so many other issues which we should be concerned about. However having said all that, at least we have the democratic right to decide our leaders, something that others would try and take away via horrific acts of terror. Stay safe everyone.
My wife was the first to vote and I was the second. Got there 5 minutes early as had to get wife to work. Talking to the Tory bloke who took our numbers while we waited for it to open and he was apologising for the Tories and May!
Please, all you young Lifers - go out and vote for your futures. You can't complain at your lot when you don't do anything about it!
@MuttleyCAFC i am voting for my future and one that will see me alive with a proper anti-terror policing, thats why im voting tories
and for the record we all have our differences and its been good to argue it out, once the vote has happened hopefully we can all go back to the important issue of getting this belgian tosspot out of our club.
Of course we will. We are all Addicks. Aren't we doing a CL poll this year - I think it is quite interesting, even if it does not represent the final result.
@MuttleyCAFC i am voting for my future and one that will see me alive with a proper anti-terror policing, thats why im voting tories
The same Tories who cut police and security and then boasted that stopping 5 out of 8 attacks this year was a good record and that the police are crying wolf over cuts?
5 more years of Tories is 5 more years of Manchesters, London Bridges, Westminsters etc.
Comments
They have produced a manifesto which although flawed, is distinct, will certainly improve public services , and although I will pay a bit more tax, will certainly improve the lives of the many not the few to coin a phrase
I shall remembered this election cycle for the total and utter lack of vision that the Conservatives have shown. The manifesto devoid of any costings is a series of trite vague utterings that mean little or nothing.
The Tory leadership , by and large a group of wealthy establishment figures have sunk to the lowest form of political discourse, throwing mud , and downright lies. They have brought the political process into disrepute
Whatever else he is or isn't , JC has not once personaly abused his opponents, and indicator of the kind of man he is .
The mainstream right wing newspapers in this country are a total and utter disgrace. The Mail and The Express and The Sun the worst candidates. How they are allowed to preach their total lies and filth is beyond me and should worry any honest democrat
The Conservatives will win because older people will vote in droves and will in 85 out 100 cases votr Tory. My only hope is they have a small enough majority to make things tricky for them and The the Labour Party learn from the defeat and keep up the energy and momentum generated by the campaign and most importantly become an effective opposition
As with every election thread we have had, I learnt so much from this and regardless of who is in power over the next five years wish everyone luck in whatever aspect of life was their main driver behind voting.
In a meeting almost all day at work so won't have much of a chance to get on this thread, if at all - so my final prediction is a hung parliament. I think Brexit showed a changing environment that drives voting in this country (driven by social media) when can't be ignored.
But given the events of the last few weeks - thank god we have this demcratic right to vote. It is that freedom that means everything.
Simply cannot predict the voting any more so the only pre result poll worth hearing is the exit poll at 10 tonight.
I don't expect Tory remainers (of which there are lots) to come out in force today but I do expect the young Corbynites to
hopefully I'll be out of here a bit sharper tonight so I'm not rushing to vote , (was on the 8:54 train the last couple of nights)
*i appreciate that there will be some exceptions for those unable to vote**
** that doesn't include anyone who just hasn't bothered to register to vote
I'll be voting Labour but not particularly thrilled about any of our choices this time round.
Although I did vote remain so perhaps the algorithms work
But I am genuinely fearful of a red revival
Thanks all for what's been on the whole a grown up debate without flags being thrown around. Would have been nice to have had some positive examples of the UK moving forward from those supporting the Tories. In the end we made it to page 200 without any - yay! But you can only play the hand you're dealt and this is absolutely reflected in the main stream media also, which mounted an incredibly negative campaign against the opposition. Was ever thus I suppose but this time around in seems worse than ever. We truly are in the era of fake news and media kingmakers.
As for a result, I can't see past the Tories increasing their majority to between 50-60 seats.
Not conservative.
But as I said in an earlier post I live in a safe Tory borough so my vote will mean little.
But haho we live in hope
Hopefully there will be a time when newspapers don't influence elections, or at least so much. Hardly a free press if they act as political pamphlets. They have a thousand times more impact than political party broadcast and serve to simplify and stifle proper debate.
It's been a good thread, generally conducted in the right manner.
Let's hope we don't need another one anytime soon!
Vote for a change.
Vote for the many. Not the few.
ie not Tory
Please, all you young Lifers - go out and vote for your futures. You can't complain at your lot when you don't do anything about it!
and for the record we all have our differences and its been good to argue it out, once the vote has happened hopefully we can all go back to the important issue of getting this belgian tosspot out of our club.
5 more years of Tories is 5 more years of Manchesters, London Bridges, Westminsters etc.