But rather than follow their own brultal austerity promised in 2015, they have actually followed Millibands lighter one in the last couple of years. But Austerity is not the answer whether it be red or blue in origin. I don't want Labour to win an election as a slightly nicer version of the Tories anymore.
Would be genuinely interested to see if there is anyone on here who is not wealthy (i.e. not above national average) who supports the Conservatives. I understand why people would if they are well off, but can't begin to understand why they would if they aren't.
Any non-rich Conservative voters able to explain why they support them?
I can't believe how this thread has suddenly gone to the monster raving loony school of debate, it's all gone crazy (no offence meant to anyone), has everyone been on the sherbets?
I can't believe how this thread has suddenly gone to the monster raving loony school of debate, it's all gone crazy (no offence meant to anyone), has everyone been on the sherbets?
So posts about how Diane Abbott will destroy the country and Corbyn being a terrorist loving IRA supporting Marxist are not hysteria?
There's plenty of room on here for Tories and Labour alike. What I would have liked to have seen is a factual response pointing out the merits of 5 more years of Tories and why it would be worth the increase in poverty, increase in food bank usage, public services being cut, terrorist attacks increasing, NHS failing, children being failed etc. What has been eminently missing has been a justification to continue all this. The stock response for this war on the poor, disabled and public services is 'the economy', yet their economic record is in the sewer on more or less every metric and any so-called growth has not benefited most of the population. I get the feeling most people just vote Tory because it's the "safe" option. Shy Tory syndrome is less about being shouted down and more to do with people reluctant to consider the consequences of their vote. I feel pretty fucking horrible about my vote in 2015 leading to one of the worst governments since the end of the war and the repercussions it has had on 95% of the country, even if I made that vote in good faith.
Let's suppose all you say about the Tories is true and I'm not disputing it, that's not my point.
I see little in what you say has changed dramatically in the last 2 years, apart from terrorist attacks in the UK (and of course in Europe and worldwide).
If you believe what you say so vehemently (fair enough), I still can't understand how you can turn your beliefs completely on their head and in such a vehement way.
The coalition, mainly. I liked Cameron and Clegg and genuinely believed that hard-right Toryism had been subdued under Cameron's influence. I also underestimated how much of a tempering factor the Lib Dems had whilst in coalition. I thought, much as many people on here currently believe, that the flak Cameron got was just from bitter lefties with sour grapes. It also didn't help that Brown and Miliband had nothing new or positive to offer the electorate.
In the past two years there has been a fair bit of change in my life and personal circumstances too where I have seen first-hand the effects of Tory cuts. I came very close to falling on hard times through no fault of my own and it made me think about if I hadn't pulled myself back whether I would have survived if we had 10 more years of the Tories. This is perhaps why I am quite vitriolic to flippant remarks made about people in difficult situations because a lot of it hits home as far as me and quite a few people close to me are concerned. Someone kept using 'dying children' as a punchline to a joke at some point in this thread and stuff like that, where I have had to see someone go through a situation where a remark like that has context, does feel like a personal attack due to the impact such issues have had on my mental state. A colleague once told me they had to use a food bank because benefits they were due were 4 weeks late. That made me irate in real life, so imagine how I felt reading on here remarks that people who use food banks have 50 inch tellies and Sky Sports and are too stupid to deserve benefits because they cannot manage their money.
I also oppose a hard Brexit and the Tories have gone from being a pro-EU, liberal, one-nation party to an isolationist, authoritarian movement who have all but given the middle finger to anyone not in their heartlands.
Interesting to wonder this. They have far too much influence I would say. I just wonder if they lead and define the public mood too much. The Sun also backed Blair, so it can work both ways.
This is a post that a good friend of mine made on Facebook, she gives me permission to share it.
I was campaigning in my local area yesterday but still getting occasional comments from people in the street who believe the nonsense being fed them by the mainstream media.Out of desperation to try and prevent ordinary people from voting against their best interests I plead with you to read the following:
"Here's what I'm really struggling to understand... All I've ever heard from people, for years, is "bloody bankers and their bonuses" "bloody rich and their offshore tax havens " "bloody politicians with their lying and second homes" “bloody corporations paying less tax than me” "bloody Establishment, they're all in it together” “it'll never change, there's no point in voting” And quite rightly so, I said all the same things. But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the Labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person. So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with… “she's strong and stable” “he's a clown” “he's not a leader” “look he can't even control his own party” “he'll ruin the economy” “how's he gonna pay for it all?!” “AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser” And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying “he's a clown” “he’s a threat to the country” “she's strong and stable” “he'll take us back to the 70s” And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. Theres no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) Because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen. And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together. You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in? You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in? You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in? You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Topshop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in? You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in? You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in? You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in? And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately. Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election. His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there. Unlike the tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up. And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners. Good, fuck them, it's long overdue."
#VoteLabour
Why did I get flagged twice for this when I was just quoting someone else?
Perhaps ending it with "fuck them" is precisely the thing we're talking about now; hysteria and personal attacks that are pointlessly inflammatory and make the poster appear unable to make a coherent point.
This is a post that a good friend of mine made on Facebook, she gives me permission to share it.
I was campaigning in my local area yesterday but still getting occasional comments from people in the street who believe the nonsense being fed them by the mainstream media.Out of desperation to try and prevent ordinary people from voting against their best interests I plead with you to read the following:
"Here's what I'm really struggling to understand... All I've ever heard from people, for years, is "bloody bankers and their bonuses" "bloody rich and their offshore tax havens " "bloody politicians with their lying and second homes" “bloody corporations paying less tax than me” "bloody Establishment, they're all in it together” “it'll never change, there's no point in voting” And quite rightly so, I said all the same things. But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the Labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person. So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with… “she's strong and stable” “he's a clown” “he's not a leader” “look he can't even control his own party” “he'll ruin the economy” “how's he gonna pay for it all?!” “AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser” And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying “he's a clown” “he’s a threat to the country” “she's strong and stable” “he'll take us back to the 70s” And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. Theres no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) Because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen. And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together. You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in? You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in? You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in? You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Topshop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in? You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in? You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in? You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in? And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately. Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election. His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there. Unlike the tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up. And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners. Good, fuck them, it's long overdue."
#VoteLabour
Why did I get flagged twice for this when I was just quoting someone else?
Perhaps ending it with "fuck them" is precisely the thing we're talking about now; hysteria and personal attacks that are pointlessly inflammatory and make the poster appear unable to make a coherent point.
This is a post that a good friend of mine made on Facebook, she gives me permission to share it.
I was campaigning in my local area yesterday but still getting occasional comments from people in the street who believe the nonsense being fed them by the mainstream media.Out of desperation to try and prevent ordinary people from voting against their best interests I plead with you to read the following:
"Here's what I'm really struggling to understand... All I've ever heard from people, for years, is "bloody bankers and their bonuses" "bloody rich and their offshore tax havens " "bloody politicians with their lying and second homes" “bloody corporations paying less tax than me” "bloody Establishment, they're all in it together” “it'll never change, there's no point in voting” And quite rightly so, I said all the same things. But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the Labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person. So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with… “she's strong and stable” “he's a clown” “he's not a leader” “look he can't even control his own party” “he'll ruin the economy” “how's he gonna pay for it all?!” “AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser” And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying “he's a clown” “he’s a threat to the country” “she's strong and stable” “he'll take us back to the 70s” And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. Theres no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) Because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen. And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together. You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in? You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in? You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in? You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Topshop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in? You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in? You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in? You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in? And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately. Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election. His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there. Unlike the tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up. And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners. Good, fuck them, it's long overdue."
#VoteLabour
Why did I get flagged twice for this when I was just quoting someone else?
Perhaps ending it with "fuck them" is precisely the thing we're talking about now; hysteria and personal attacks that are pointlessly inflammatory and make the poster appear unable to make a coherent point.
Saw a map that, based on poll trends, shows the likely winner by city. Was an eye opener.
If Scotland were to become its own country, England would be dominated utterly by The Conservatives. almost every city would have Conservative majorities.
If Labour do not win - which is more than likely, I will give people hope. What we have here is not Conservative v Labour contest, but the birth of a movement. It has probably passed a lot by at the level of passion and support this man has created. I was an anti Corbynite and backed Smith, simply because I was fed the lies that are fed to us all. What has changed! This election has made me listen to him and I know what it is like to see the light. I would walk over broken glass for this man now, such has he connected with me. But it isn't just me, and I was shouting people down who backed him a couple of months ago.
This is a movement and the 1% should be crapping themselves because it will only grow. More and more of us know who you are and what your game is and we are coming for you.
Who are the 1% that you are coming for ?
You really don't know? -Some basic research and an enquiring mind will tell you.
I could probably guess or start googling, but I'd rather you told me. Thank-you.
Ok, I would have guessed right. So when you say.
"The 1% should be crapping themselves because it will only grow. More and more of us know who you are and what your game is and we are coming for you."
What did you mean ? I don't want to put words into your mouth.
I usually watch elections avidly but not this time.
Think I may stay up just to check in on here and watch the place go in to meltdown IF a Tory win is looking likely. Won't need booze to keep me up, the comments should keep me chuckling throughout.
Seriously. Clearly this stuff doesn't really matter much to you othewise you wouldn't post silly, provocative comments like that. But as someone directly effected by the process, who is seeing first hand the dismantling of our public sector, I fail to see anything to be glib about. Perhaps you could have a "chuckle" about the possible consequences outlined in @AddickUpNorth 's post about the increased risk to prison officers, because I can't see anything to laugh about in it?
Its actually my first time voting and I have a reason to do so, and it'll be a Tory vote because my family and I will be better off for it.
It's not those comments I laugh at. More the sweeping generalisations grown men and women will be making about people who voted for the Tories. I've seen all sorts of assumptions made about the type of voter they are on here (none of which I fall into) and it makes me laugh. I just imagine this is happening at the other end.
Sorry but that's nonsense. As someone whose job prospects are looking decidedly worse in the next 24 hours shouldn't I be allowed to be angry at the situation I find myself in through no fault of my own? Shouldn't @AddickUpNorth be able to have a rant at the increasingly difficult situation he and his colleagues find themselves in? The fact is many of us directly involved in the public sector have been trying to enlighten you and others as to the reality of what's happened already and will continue to happen at a faster rate due to your voting choice if it's Tory.
You can choose to ignore those warnings if you like and but you will not be able to ignore the effects. Whether that's increased waiting time in A&E, a worse care package for a relative, less classroom assistants for your kids or something as seemingly trivial as getting your rubbish collected only every three weeks (coming to your area soon btw!) these cuts will 100% effect you or your family in some way.
You might have voted to become "better off" financially, that's open to debate tbh, but if anyone thinks our public services, armed forces, NHS, railways, roads, etc, etc. will be in a better place in 2022 than even now, frankly prepare to be very disappointed...
How do you know Polo's (or his family members) job prospects wouldn't be looking decidedly worse in the next 24 hours if Labour got in and therefore on balance that amongst other things is why he's chosen to vote as he has?
Part of the problem with Politics is we all think we are right, much like the politicians themselves, you wrote '....have been trying to enlighten you and others as to the reality of what's happened already and will continue to happen at a faster rate due to your voting choice if it's Tory'
You seem to think that anyone voting for anything but labour is an imbecile and can't work things out for themselves or make their own mind up and form their own view. That's part of the problem with Politics these days, most MP's seem to think the electorate (and other MP's/Parties with opposing views) are idiots.......
I think it's fairly natural to assume that 99.9% of people are not involved in the international arms trade. I am sure if the prospects were worse, he'd tell us.
I genuinely have been debating (if that's the word) with some real stupid people on Fb who intend voting Tory. Their reasons are dumb as ****. That's not all of them mind.
I think you are sort of confirming my point, those without your viewpoint must be as dumb as ****.......
They think that well known pacifist, veggie Corbyn is a terrorist. They think the economy has improved under the Tories. That's not debateable - it's just rubbish.
They more than likely just think they're a better shout than Corbyn and Labour
Then why not say that rather than something that makes them sound as dumb as ****?
What annoys me is Momemtum / Anarchists will be smashing stuff up tomorrow or the weekend if they don't get their own way. Much like after the Brexit vote. That's the difference between the loud left and what may prove to be the silent majority on the right. Sad times.
???
You're creating problems that haven't happened yet because of a dislike for people with left wing views. Bizarre.
I'll be accepting of the result whichever way it goes. As I was with last year and the year before that. That doesn't mean I'll give up on what I think is right.
That's the problem with the right, if they win tonight then they'll expect all of us lefties to leave them alone. Much like after the Brexit vote. (Ok I did that on purpose)
Are you hand on heart telling us you don't think they'll be far left criminal damage off the back of today at some point tomorrow or the weekend?
Honestly, I wouldn't bet against a few nut jobs trying something. First, they're exactly that, nut jobs - they don't represent me or anyone else with left leaning views. Secondly, to condemn people for something that hasn't happened yet is still totally bizarre. It's almost as if some get off on moaning.
In the early 90s it seemed (at least from here in the USA) that the purpose of the EU was simply centered around four things...
1. Ease of movement for citizens across borders
2. Single currency in order to make investments and money movement more efficient
3. Unify Europe fiscally so peace was more attractive than war, in the future
4. Set budget deficit limits so everyone played fair.
Now.... it seems from what we see here in the news the last several years, like the EU is trying to control everything socially as well, that they want to dominate the financial direction of each country and essentially supplant local government authority in almost every minor matter... and on top of all that... are NOT enforcing the fiscal limits they said they would.
Is this summary accurate? Partially accurate? Way off base?
I usually watch elections avidly but not this time.
Think I may stay up just to check in on here and watch the place go in to meltdown IF a Tory win is looking likely. Won't need booze to keep me up, the comments should keep me chuckling throughout.
Seriously. Clearly this stuff doesn't really matter much to you othewise you wouldn't post silly, provocative comments like that. But as someone directly effected by the process, who is seeing first hand the dismantling of our public sector, I fail to see anything to be glib about. Perhaps you could have a "chuckle" about the possible consequences outlined in @AddickUpNorth 's post about the increased risk to prison officers, because I can't see anything to laugh about in it?
Its actually my first time voting and I have a reason to do so, and it'll be a Tory vote because my family and I will be better off for it.
It's not those comments I laugh at. More the sweeping generalisations grown men and women will be making about people who voted for the Tories. I've seen all sorts of assumptions made about the type of voter they are on here (none of which I fall into) and it makes me laugh. I just imagine this is happening at the other end.
Sorry but that's nonsense. As someone whose job prospects are looking decidedly worse in the next 24 hours shouldn't I be allowed to be angry at the situation I find myself in through no fault of my own? Shouldn't @AddickUpNorth be able to have a rant at the increasingly difficult situation he and his colleagues find themselves in? The fact is many of us directly involved in the public sector have been trying to enlighten you and others as to the reality of what's happened already and will continue to happen at a faster rate due to your voting choice if it's Tory.
You can choose to ignore those warnings if you like and but you will not be able to ignore the effects. Whether that's increased waiting time in A&E, a worse care package for a relative, less classroom assistants for your kids or something as seemingly trivial as getting your rubbish collected only every three weeks (coming to your area soon btw!) these cuts will 100% effect you or your family in some way.
You might have voted to become "better off" financially, that's open to debate tbh, but if anyone thinks our public services, armed forces, NHS, railways, roads, etc, etc. will be in a better place in 2022 than even now, frankly prepare to be very disappointed...
How do you know Polo's (or his family members) job prospects wouldn't be looking decidedly worse in the next 24 hours if Labour got in and therefore on balance that amongst other things is why he's chosen to vote as he has?
Part of the problem with Politics is we all think we are right, much like the politicians themselves, you wrote '....have been trying to enlighten you and others as to the reality of what's happened already and will continue to happen at a faster rate due to your voting choice if it's Tory'
You seem to think that anyone voting for anything but labour is an imbecile and can't work things out for themselves or make their own mind up and form their own view. That's part of the problem with Politics these days, most MP's seem to think the electorate (and other MP's/Parties with opposing views) are idiots.......
Thanks for telling me both how I vote and what I think. It's all utter bollocks of course.
I don't think, "anyone voting for anything but labour is an imbecile and can't work things out for themselves or make their own mind up and form their own view" thanks. That's just basically a crappy strawman argument & very much playing the man rather than addressing the point I made as I've said nothing of the sort you suggested throughout this thread. Pretty poor of you tbh.
I've asked repeatedly for someone to spell out the positives of 7 years under a Tory PM. You made an effort which I acknowledged. I also pointed out what you suggested was irrelevant, misleading or failed to address the bigger picture beyond your personal situation. I stand by that but it doesn't mean I think you or anyone else on here is an imbecile.
As for what I know about Polo? I do know he's not in the public sector. So you're right, under a Labour government he might be one of the 5%'ers. But he might not be. He might be no worse off, he might even be better off. Who knows for absolute certain?
By contrast me and millions like me will wake up tomorrow in the 100% certainty that we will face further job losses, further pay freezes/cuts and further attacks on our pensions and conditions. There's no ambiguity about that whatsoever. He made a statement in my view that he would enjoy the fallout, I pointed out that for some of us this shit is real, all getting a bit tiring tbh and not really something to be a laughing matter. I'm pretty sure if the situation were reversed Polo might same the same.
Finally, what I said was factually correct wasn't it? Or did I make up the last 7 years of austerity policies implemented on the public sector?
I have been saying all day that I am sure Labour will lose - and I still think they will - but I do think there is a possibility they are going to do some damage and there could even be a hung parliament. Whilst I am unimportant, it doesn't do to promote the need to vote in people who want to vote differently to you.
What I base this on could be total nonsense and I am not sure it isn't, but the company Survation claimed that they had actually predicted the last election in a poll with a different methodology than the others and their own, but that the results were so out of step with all the other polls that they decided not to publish. Now that sounds a bit convenient, and we have to be suspicious.
The modelling for this poll they never published is the same as what they have used for their published polls in this election - or so they claim. These are the polls showing the greatest closing of the gap which ended at only 1% yesterday. There is a suggestion with some factors they think are relevant, that this could even be a small Labour lead as they think they may have understated the student vote slightly. The problem with polls is once you start the methodology, you can't change it because it doesn't look right.
We shall see - it woud be a shock but will be interesting. Are Survation the new polling kings or a load of bullsh*tters? probably the latter
Would be genuinely interested to see if there is anyone on here who is not wealthy (i.e. not above national average) who supports the Conservatives. I understand why people would if they are well off, but can't begin to understand why they would if they aren't.
Any non-rich Conservative voters able to explain why they support them?
That's the thing, I think. I don't think anyone really considers themselves rich. Unless they're true millionaires maybe.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
The only hateful and divisive comments I've seen actually have been from those who are intending to vote labour. If you want to know what causes shy Tory effect.. it's online bullying and general harassment of people who say they're going to vote conservative. Nobody votes to make other people's lives worse, they do it to make it better.
"I would rather let Jimmy Savile babysit my kids than vote Labour" was just one particular meme of many I have seen from Tories.
You think after the past five years that someone voting Tory now does it to make other people's lives better? Unless the other people you refer to are multi-millionaires of course...
This is a post that a good friend of mine made on Facebook, she gives me permission to share it.
I was campaigning in my local area yesterday but still getting occasional comments from people in the street who believe the nonsense being fed them by the mainstream media.Out of desperation to try and prevent ordinary people from voting against their best interests I plead with you to read the following:
"Here's what I'm really struggling to understand... All I've ever heard from people, for years, is "bloody bankers and their bonuses" "bloody rich and their offshore tax havens " "bloody politicians with their lying and second homes" “bloody corporations paying less tax than me” "bloody Establishment, they're all in it together” “it'll never change, there's no point in voting” And quite rightly so, I said all the same things. But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the Labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person. So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with… “she's strong and stable” “he's a clown” “he's not a leader” “look he can't even control his own party” “he'll ruin the economy” “how's he gonna pay for it all?!” “AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser” And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying “he's a clown” “he’s a threat to the country” “she's strong and stable” “he'll take us back to the 70s” And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. Theres no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) Because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen. And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together. You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in? You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in? You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in? You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Topshop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in? You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in? You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in? You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in? And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately. Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election. His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there. Unlike the tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up. And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners. Good, fuck them, it's long overdue."
#VoteLabour
Why did I get flagged twice for this when I was just quoting someone else?
Perhaps ending it with "fuck them" is precisely the thing we're talking about now; hysteria and personal attacks that are pointlessly inflammatory and make the poster appear unable to make a coherent point.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
The only hateful and divisive comments I've seen actually have been from those who are intending to vote labour. If you want to know what causes shy Tory effect.. it's online bullying and general harassment of people who say they're going to vote conservative. Nobody votes to make other people's lives worse, they do it to make it better.
I get that people will always vote in their own self interest - I get that that's a thing.
I just can't bring myself to vote for a candidate that I know will make life worse for many people. Tory cuts aren't a joke, they've caused deaths. My life seems pretty cushy by comparison.
Comments
If labour get in I'll happily take 100 more.
If Scotland were to become its own country, England would be dominated utterly by The Conservatives. almost every city would have Conservative majorities.
Did not know that.
"The 1% should be crapping themselves because it will only grow. More and more of us know who you are and what your game is and we are coming for you."
What did you mean ? I don't want to put words into your mouth.
In the early 90s it seemed (at least from here in the USA) that the purpose of the EU was simply centered around four things...
1. Ease of movement for citizens across borders
2. Single currency in order to make investments and money movement more efficient
3. Unify Europe fiscally so peace was more attractive than war, in the future
4. Set budget deficit limits so everyone played fair.
Now.... it seems from what we see here in the news the last several years, like the EU is trying to control everything socially as well, that they want to dominate the financial direction of each country and essentially supplant local government authority in almost every minor matter... and on top of all that... are NOT enforcing the fiscal limits they said they would.
Is this summary accurate? Partially accurate? Way off base?
Thanks.
I don't think, "anyone voting for anything but labour is an imbecile and can't work things out for themselves or make their own mind up and form their own view" thanks. That's just basically a crappy strawman argument & very much playing the man rather than addressing the point I made as I've said nothing of the sort you suggested throughout this thread. Pretty poor of you tbh.
I've asked repeatedly for someone to spell out the positives of 7 years under a Tory PM. You made an effort which I acknowledged. I also pointed out what you suggested was irrelevant, misleading or failed to address the bigger picture beyond your personal situation. I stand by that but it doesn't mean I think you or anyone else on here is an imbecile.
As for what I know about Polo? I do know he's not in the public sector. So you're right, under a Labour government he might be one of the 5%'ers. But he might not be. He might be no worse off, he might even be better off. Who knows for absolute certain?
By contrast me and millions like me will wake up tomorrow in the 100% certainty that we will face further job losses, further pay freezes/cuts and further attacks on our pensions and conditions. There's no ambiguity about that whatsoever. He made a statement in my view that he would enjoy the fallout, I pointed out that for some of us this shit is real, all getting a bit tiring tbh and not really something to be a laughing matter. I'm pretty sure if the situation were reversed Polo might same the same.
Finally, what I said was factually correct wasn't it? Or did I make up the last 7 years of austerity policies implemented on the public sector?
What I base this on could be total nonsense and I am not sure it isn't, but the company Survation claimed that they had actually predicted the last election in a poll with a different methodology than the others and their own, but that the results were so out of step with all the other polls that they decided not to publish. Now that sounds a bit convenient, and we have to be suspicious.
The modelling for this poll they never published is the same as what they have used for their published polls in this election - or so they claim. These are the polls showing the greatest closing of the gap which ended at only 1% yesterday. There is a suggestion with some factors they think are relevant, that this could even be a small Labour lead as they think they may have understated the student vote slightly. The problem with polls is once you start the methodology, you can't change it because it doesn't look right.
We shall see - it woud be a shock but will be interesting. Are Survation the new polling kings or a load of bullsh*tters? probably the latter
It's all relative sadly.
You think after the past five years that someone voting Tory now does it to make other people's lives better? Unless the other people you refer to are multi-millionaires of course...
Did you just flag me
I just can't bring myself to vote for a candidate that I know will make life worse for many people. Tory cuts aren't a joke, they've caused deaths. My life seems pretty cushy by comparison.