If Labour do not win - which is more than likely, I will give people hope. What we have here is not Conservative v Labour contest, but the birth of a movement. It has probably passed a lot by at the level of passion and support this man has created. I was an anti Corbynite and backed Smith, simply because I was fed the lies that are fed to us all. What has changed! This election has made me listen to him and I know what it is like to see the light. I would walk over broken glass for this man now, such has he connected with me. But it isn't just me, and I was shouting people down who backed him a couple of months ago.
This is a movement and the 1% should be crapping themselves because it will only grow. More and more of us know who you are and what your game is and we are coming for you.
Who are the 1% that you are coming for ?
You really don't know? -Some basic research and an enquiring mind will tell you.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to make out like he was the one being victimised
Sadie, I think you should be excused the fuck em as you wrote with passion and conviction. We do have to be respectful, but please understand how some of us are feeling. We live in an unjust unfair society and a miracle has occured, an outsider has become the leader of the labour party, someone who literally has done no wrong and has been principled his entire life. Someone who saw the iraq war dossier for what is was, a complete fabrication and said so at the time, someone who is constantly known as a rebel because he a morally upright person and also someone who the leaders of the labour party never thought would get power or retain it.
So what do they do these labour party mp's do they get behind this just and moral person? No they try to oust him (i have only recently understood why), so he calls a labour election and what happens? 65% of the members of the labour party vote for him (largest ever majority). He has not just won once but twice to become the leader of the party. Meanwhile Theresa May sees all this backstabbing within the labour party and calls a general election thinking that this would be a good time to grab more power before the labour party get their house together and times worsen... But the people are being woken up by Corbyn, they I suspect, like me, they now realise their stupidity, they realise their mistake on listening to the media, even if they didn't fully realise they were (like me) and they see through the Tory lies and fabrications. They see the media and the Tories trying to smear Corbyn day in and day out but it has an increasingly lessening effect, the actions and policies of the man speak for themselves.
Sadie only wants basic social justice that nobody should oppose. It is hard we may have to wait another 5 years for it, but 5 years comes and goes like the blink of an eye.
Yeah. Not at all the abuse, venom and bile.
Not at all.
Not at all the abuse, venom and bile that we're now talking about being subjected too.
So posts about how Diane Abbott will destroy the country and Corbyn being a terrorist loving IRA supporting Marxist are not hysteria?
There's plenty of room on here for Tories and Labour alike. What I would have liked to have seen is a factual response pointing out the merits of 5 more years of Tories and why it would be worth the increase in poverty, increase in food bank usage, public services being cut, terrorist attacks increasing, NHS failing, children being failed etc. What has been eminently missing has been a justification to continue all this. The stock response for this war on the poor, disabled and public services is 'the economy', yet their economic record is in the sewer on more or less every metric and any so-called growth has not benefited most of the population. I get the feeling most people just vote Tory because it's the "safe" option. Shy Tory syndrome is less about being shouted down and more to do with people reluctant to consider the consequences of their vote. I feel pretty fucking horrible about my vote in 2015 leading to one of the worst governments since the end of the war and the repercussions it has had on 95% of the country, even if I made that vote in good faith.
Let's suppose all you say about the Tories is true and I'm not disputing it, that's not my point.
I see little in what you say has changed dramatically in the last 2 years, apart from terrorist attacks in the UK (and of course in Europe and worldwide).
If you believe what you say so vehemently (fair enough), I still can't understand how you can turn your beliefs completely on their head and in such a vehement way.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to make out like he was the one being victimised
Is that a well known saying?
I thought the greatest trick was convincing the world he didn't exist, that's what spacey says in usual suspects anyway.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
Why do you think the term "silent Tory voters" has been coined? Because of what you've just said mate.
Aw diddums, is Mr Libtard feeling intimidated into silence by the nasty horrible lefties? Because that would make a welcome change tbh
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to make out like he was the one being victimised
So I'm the devil now?
You're not doing much to refute the point with that particular argument.
In fact you're highlighting the mechanism at which this abuse is defended, anyone who hold a difference of opinion is a fascist, is evil and hates the vulnerable. It becomes a lot easier to abuse someone when you dehumanise them.
And you've just demonstrated it perfectly, I doth my cap to you for the perfect demonstration.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
Why do you think the term "silent Tory voters" has been coined? Because of what you've just said mate.
Aw diddums, is Mr Libtard feeling intimidated into silence by the nasty horrible lefties? Because that would make a welcome change tbh
And again.
Why should I, as someone to the right (Center Right in all honesty), bother to partake in a discussion when it gets dragged down to that level?
No. I'll sit back, I'll ignore it and wait for the results to come in. I suspect they'll tell a different tale than the one shown on social media.
Funnily enough, I've never been subjected to any abuse when I've been in a voting booth. On the contrary, it's an equaliser and that nasty little mentality, and those bitter little words.. They mean nothing. Thus the silent ones suddenly find a voice.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to make out like he was the one being victimised
Is that a well known saying?
I thought the greatest trick was convincing the world he didn't exist, that's what spacey says in usual suspects anyway.
I thought it was "If you're not in bed by 11 o'clock, come home"
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
Why do you think the term "silent Tory voters" has been coined? Because of what you've just said mate.
Aw diddums, is Mr Libtard feeling intimidated into silence by the nasty horrible lefties? Because that would make a welcome change tbh
Well obviously not me, you've flagged me enough times during one of your many tantrums so obviously not me, but some may feel that way I guess that much is clear.
This is a post that a good friend of mine made on Facebook, she gives me permission to share it.
I was campaigning in my local area yesterday but still getting occasional comments from people in the street who believe the nonsense being fed them by the mainstream media.Out of desperation to try and prevent ordinary people from voting against their best interests I plead with you to read the following:
"Here's what I'm really struggling to understand... All I've ever heard from people, for years, is "bloody bankers and their bonuses" "bloody rich and their offshore tax havens " "bloody politicians with their lying and second homes" “bloody corporations paying less tax than me” "bloody Establishment, they're all in it together” “it'll never change, there's no point in voting” And quite rightly so, I said all the same things. But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the Labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person. So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with… “she's strong and stable” “he's a clown” “he's not a leader” “look he can't even control his own party” “he'll ruin the economy” “how's he gonna pay for it all?!” “AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser” And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying “he's a clown” “he’s a threat to the country” “she's strong and stable” “he'll take us back to the 70s” And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. Theres no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) Because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen. And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together. You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in? You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in? You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in? You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Topshop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in? You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in? You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in? You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in? And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately. Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election. His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there. Unlike the tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up. And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners. Good, fuck them, it's long overdue."
#VoteLabour
Why did I get flagged twice for this when I was just quoting someone else?
Perhaps ending it with "fuck them" is precisely the thing we're talking about now; hysteria and personal attacks that are pointlessly inflammatory and make the poster appear unable to make a coherent point.
Just guessing, like.
Yes but I said I was quoting someone else
People on this board have been called in for police interview for quotes. Fact.
The question put was why were there 200 pages on this thread, with little support for the Tories and I said I thought some people did not wish to debate with the hysteria on here.
The fact that the right wing press are also hysterical (I agree), is nothing to do with the question asked.
I think your response proved my point.
I visited CharltonLife a grand total of 0 times between April 28th and June 3rd; precisely because of the hysteria and shittiness of a lot of the political debates on here. I usually always had a tab open with CL on it.
I just grew tired of trying to present a coherent argument; nobody was out right offensive, on the contrary I seem to recall finding some decent middle ground and having some really good exchanges with the likes of @Fiiish. Now Twitter, that's where I've had some pretty nasty abuse!
I make @Covered End right though, there's not much Tory support being voiced because it soon becomes a bit a whack-a-mole game where you end up struggling to respond to the volume, and in some cases factual basis, for a lot of the points people are making.
It's a shame, because a proper debate can often bring common ground in to view and provide some perspective. I keep pointing it out, but I generally believe The Shy Tory factor is a real thing.
Undoubtedly the case in my opinion. People to the right of centre tend to *think* they are right whereas people to the left of centre *know* they are right. Nothing wrong with a bit of self belief but it isn't e actly conducive to a debate.
And if the first thing in someones head reading this is "because I am right" then unfortunately there isnt really a point in discussing politics with you. That for me is why I have read but steered clear of this threads for the past month or so. And I consider myself very centre with a bit of right with a lot of left wing friends whom I can have proper discussions with.
Maybe it's the internet and the fact tones don't carry well which exacerbates things on here but posts like "we have had one million pages of comments without one credible argument for the Tories" when people like @Rob7Lee has put across many is exactly what I'm talking about.
Some people just don't want to listen or even concede the tiniest parts in a debate, and for me, although that happens on both sides, it is predominantly on the left.
Fair enough in a lot of cases, the right tend to view the left as reckless and that they piss money up the wall, whereas the left view the right as dangerous and evil. When you take that into account it's logical if you subscribe to that belief. To develop from that I think a lot more on the left hate the right than the right hate the left.
I'd like to point out the above relies on a few generalisations but I think generally stands true and is fair.
Spot on the money, and a quick search of Twitter for #GeneralElection provides ample examples of this.
Debates very quickly devolve into hyperbole and inflammatory personal attacks when one side refused to consider the opinion of the other. Sadly, there's a lot who would rather scream about The Nasty Party than hold an actual discussion.
I can't be bothered to debate with someone who's argument is "fuck you" or "you hate poor people" or bla bla bla.. So yeah, back in my box.
Plus I've been too busy eating babies.
I think (not certain) someone said this very early on and I thought, I'm not partaking this time, apart from the odd comment.
If Labour do not win - which is more than likely, I will give people hope. What we have here is not Conservative v Labour contest, but the birth of a movement. It has probably passed a lot by at the level of passion and support this man has created. I was an anti Corbynite and backed Smith, simply because I was fed the lies that are fed to us all. What has changed! This election has made me listen to him and I know what it is like to see the light. I would walk over broken glass for this man now, such has he connected with me. But it isn't just me, and I was shouting people down who backed him a couple of months ago.
This is a movement and the 1% should be crapping themselves because it will only grow. More and more of us know who you are and what your game is and we are coming for you.
Muttley, I admire our passion, I really do but 'walk over broken glass for him', 'the birth of a movement' and the '1% should be crapping themselves' and 'we know who you are and what your game is and we are coming for you', Really? Come on you're better than that.
Is that not a little premature/over the top? If you are right on the movement part then Corbyn & Labour will substantially increase their vote count (forget seats for a minute) even if they don't win outright if he has truly gained the level of passion and support you believe he has.
So would you accept that if he doesn't substantially increase labours vote, against probably the worst conservative party, leader and election campaign for 20 years then it's abject failure and this movement you talk of is just that, all hot air? He's been rumbled, you've been hoodwinked and Labour should remove him (as in my view the conservatives should/will probably do with May before too long).
In 2015 I believe Labour received 30.4% of the vote and Conservative 36.9%, so this strength of movement, what can we expect, Labour to move up 15% so say 35% and conservatives down 15% to 31.5% of the vote? If not those numbers what do you think will show this 'movement' and ground swell you talk of?
The question put was why were there 200 pages on this thread, with little support for the Tories and I said I thought some people did not wish to debate with the hysteria on here.
The fact that the right wing press are also hysterical (I agree), is nothing to do with the question asked.
I think your response proved my point.
I visited CharltonLife a grand total of 0 times between April 28th and June 3rd; precisely because of the hysteria and shittiness of a lot of the political debates on here. I usually always had a tab open with CL on it.
I just grew tired of trying to present a coherent argument; nobody was out right offensive, on the contrary I seem to recall finding some decent middle ground and having some really good exchanges with the likes of @Fiiish. Now Twitter, that's where I've had some pretty nasty abuse!
I make @Covered End right though, there's not much Tory support being voiced because it soon becomes a bit a whack-a-mole game where you end up struggling to respond to the volume, and in some cases factual basis, for a lot of the points people are making.
It's a shame, because a proper debate can often bring common ground in to view and provide some perspective. I keep pointing it out, but I generally believe The Shy Tory factor is a real thing.
Undoubtedly the case in my opinion. People to the right of centre tend to *think* they are right whereas people to the left of centre *know* they are right. Nothing wrong with a bit of self belief but it isn't e actly conducive to a debate.
And if the first thing in someones head reading this is "because I am right" then unfortunately there isnt really a point in discussing politics with you. That for me is why I have read but steered clear of this threads for the past month or so. And I consider myself very centre with a bit of right with a lot of left wing friends whom I can have proper discussions with.
Maybe it's the internet and the fact tones don't carry well which exacerbates things on here but posts like "we have had one million pages of comments without one credible argument for the Tories" when people like @Rob7Lee has put across many is exactly what I'm talking about.
Some people just don't want to listen or even concede the tiniest parts in a debate, and for me, although that happens on both sides, it is predominantly on the left.
Fair enough in a lot of cases, the right tend to view the left as reckless and that they piss money up the wall, whereas the left view the right as dangerous and evil. When you take that into account it's logical if you subscribe to that belief. To develop from that I think a lot more on the left hate the right than the right hate the left.
I'd like to point out the above relies on a few generalisations but I think generally stands true and is fair.
Spot on the money, and a quick search of Twitter for #GeneralElection provides ample examples of this.
Debates very quickly devolve into hyperbole and inflammatory personal attacks when one side refused to consider the opinion of the other. Sadly, there's a lot who would rather scream about The Nasty Party than hold an actual discussion.
I can't be bothered to debate with someone who's argument is "fuck you" or "you hate poor people" or bla bla bla.. So yeah, back in my box.
Plus I've been too busy eating babies
I've found the blood of virgins is the perfect drop to wash them down with, it stops that horrible bloated feeling.
So posts about how Diane Abbott will destroy the country and Corbyn being a terrorist loving IRA supporting Marxist are not hysteria?
There's plenty of room on here for Tories and Labour alike. What I would have liked to have seen is a factual response pointing out the merits of 5 more years of Tories and why it would be worth the increase in poverty, increase in food bank usage, public services being cut, terrorist attacks increasing, NHS failing, children being failed etc. What has been eminently missing has been a justification to continue all this. The stock response for this war on the poor, disabled and public services is 'the economy', yet their economic record is in the sewer on more or less every metric and any so-called growth has not benefited most of the population. I get the feeling most people just vote Tory because it's the "safe" option. Shy Tory syndrome is less about being shouted down and more to do with people reluctant to consider the consequences of their vote. I feel pretty fucking horrible about my vote in 2015 leading to one of the worst governments since the end of the war and the repercussions it has had on 95% of the country, even if I made that vote in good faith.
Let's suppose all you say about the Tories is true and I'm not disputing it, that's not my point.
I see little in what you say has changed dramatically in the last 2 years, apart from terrorist attacks in the UK (and of course in Europe and worldwide).
If you believe what you say so vehemently (fair enough), I still can't understand how you can turn your beliefs completely on their head and in such a vehement way.
The coalition, mainly. I liked Cameron and Clegg and genuinely believed that hard-right Toryism had been subdued under Cameron's influence. I also underestimated how much of a tempering factor the Lib Dems had whilst in coalition. I thought, much as many people on here currently believe, that the flak Cameron got was just from bitter lefties with sour grapes. It also didn't help that Brown and Miliband had nothing new or positive to offer the electorate.
In the past two years there has been a fair bit of change in my life and personal circumstances too where I have seen first-hand the effects of Tory cuts. I came very close to falling on hard times through no fault of my own and it made me think about if I hadn't pulled myself back whether I would have survived if we had 10 more years of the Tories. This is perhaps why I am quite vitriolic to flippant remarks made about people in difficult situations because a lot of it hits home as far as me and quite a few people close to me are concerned. Someone kept using 'dying children' as a punchline to a joke at some point in this thread and stuff like that, where I have had to see someone go through a situation where a remark like that has context, does feel like a personal attack due to the impact such issues have had on my mental state. A colleague once told me they had to use a food bank because benefits they were due were 4 weeks late. That made me irate in real life, so imagine how I felt reading on here remarks that people who use food banks have 50 inch tellies and Sky Sports and are too stupid to deserve benefits because they cannot manage their money.
I also oppose a hard Brexit and the Tories have gone from being a pro-EU, liberal, one-nation party to an isolationist, authoritarian movement who have all but given the middle finger to anyone not in their heartlands.
What annoys me is Momemtum / Anarchists will be smashing stuff up tomorrow or the weekend if they don't get their own way. Much like after the Brexit vote. That's the difference between the loud left and what may prove to be the silent majority on the right. Sad times.
???
You're creating problems that haven't happened yet because of a dislike for people with left wing views. Bizarre.
I'll be accepting of the result whichever way it goes. As I was with last year and the year before that. That doesn't mean I'll give up on what I think is right.
That's the problem with the right, if they win tonight then they'll expect all of us lefties to leave them alone. Much like after the Brexit vote. (Ok I did that on purpose)
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to make out like he was the one being victimised
So I'm the devil now?
You're not doing much to refute the point with that particular argument.
In fact you're highlighting the mechanism at which this abuse is defended, anyone who hold a difference of opinion is a fascist, is evil and hates the vulnerable. It becomes a lot easier to abuse someone when you dehumanise them.
And you've just demonstrated it perfectly, I doth my cap to you for the perfect demonstration.
I don't think that is fair - some are deluded into thinking the Tories are the best way to help the vulnerable - but my friend that is a ridiculous position. You may think what I am saying is ridiculous, and that is your right, but if you try to see what many of us believe - The Conservatives are trying to kill the NHS, damage the NHS and exploit our people for the benefit of 1% of wealthy families and Corporations who not only own virtually everything, but want to own more! If you can accept that we passionately believe that, you have to accept and understand the anger. You can of course say it is misguided which is your right.
I am less critical of individuals as I see you as people who have not yet seen the way forward. I undertsand the manipulation because it has happened to me. This movement isn't going away and is getting stronger and stronger - what has happened in just a few weeks since May called the election has been incredible. And many people voting Conservative today will not be voting for them tomorrow. I was not going to vote Labour at the start of this election - I know how things can change.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to make out like he was the one being victimised
So I'm the devil now?
You're not doing much to refute the point with that particular argument.
In fact you're highlighting the mechanism at which this abuse is defended, anyone who hold a difference of opinion is a fascist, is evil and hates the vulnerable. It becomes a lot easier to abuse someone when you dehumanise them.
And you've just demonstrated it perfectly, I doth my cap to you for the perfect demonstration.
I don't think that is fair - some are deluded into thinking the Tories are the best way to help the vulnerable - but my friend that is a ridiculous position. You may think what I am saying is ridiculous, and that is your right, but if you try to see what many of us believe - The Conservatives are trying to kill the NHS, damage the NHS and exploit our people for the benefit of 1% of wealthy families and Corporations who not only own virtually everything, but want to own more! If you can accept that we passionately believe that, you have to accept and understand the anger. You can of course say it is misguided which is your right.
I am less critical of individuals as I see you as people who have not yet seen the way forward. I undertsand the manipulation because it has happened to me. This movement isn't going away and is getting stronger and stronger - what has happened in just a few weeks since May called the election has been incredible. And many people voting Conservative today will not be voting for them tomorrow. I was not going to vote Labour at the start of this election - I know how things can change.
Fuck me, you did it in the first fucking sentence. You're beyond parody!
You couldn't even get a sentence in without referring to those who don't hold your views as "deluded".
Congratulations, another one proves the point. Take a bow, mate.
As for the rest of your post, it comes across quite honestly as rather cultist. If the Conservatives only help the 1% - which is cracking as clearly they've rapidly placed me in that percentile, which is curious for a party that is apparently against social mobility - then who do those Momentum represent look out for? (I say Momentum, as I don't believe Labour voters are represented anymore.)
If Labour do not win - which is more than likely, I will give people hope. What we have here is not Conservative v Labour contest, but the birth of a movement. It has probably passed a lot by at the level of passion and support this man has created. I was an anti Corbynite and backed Smith, simply because I was fed the lies that are fed to us all. What has changed! This election has made me listen to him and I know what it is like to see the light. I would walk over broken glass for this man now, such has he connected with me. But it isn't just me, and I was shouting people down who backed him a couple of months ago.
This is a movement and the 1% should be crapping themselves because it will only grow. More and more of us know who you are and what your game is and we are coming for you.
Who are the 1% that you are coming for ?
You really don't know? -Some basic research and an enquiring mind will tell you.
I could probably guess or start googling, but I'd rather you told me. Thank-you.
What annoys me is Momemtum / Anarchists will be smashing stuff up tomorrow or the weekend if they don't get their own way. Much like after the Brexit vote. That's the difference between the loud left and what may prove to be the silent majority on the right. Sad times.
???
You're creating problems that haven't happened yet because of a dislike for people with left wing views. Bizarre.
I'll be accepting of the result whichever way it goes. As I was with last year and the year before that. That doesn't mean I'll give up on what I think is right.
That's the problem with the right, if they win tonight then they'll expect all of us lefties to leave them alone. Much like after the Brexit vote. (Ok I did that on purpose)
Are you hand on heart telling us you don't think they'll be far left criminal damage off the back of today at some point tomorrow or the weekend?
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to make out like he was the one being victimised
So I'm the devil now?
You're not doing much to refute the point with that particular argument.
In fact you're highlighting the mechanism at which this abuse is defended, anyone who hold a difference of opinion is a fascist, is evil and hates the vulnerable. It becomes a lot easier to abuse someone when you dehumanise them.
And you've just demonstrated it perfectly, I doth my cap to you for the perfect demonstration.
I don't think that is fair - some are deluded into thinking the Tories are the best way to help the vulnerable - but my friend that is a ridiculous position. You may think what I am saying is ridiculous, and that is your right, but if you try to see what many of us believe - The Conservatives are trying to kill the NHS, damage the NHS and exploit our people for the benefit of 1% of wealthy families and Corporations who not only own virtually everything, but want to own more! If you can accept that we passionately believe that, you have to accept and understand the anger. You can of course say it is misguided which is your right.
I am less critical of individuals as I see you as people who have not yet seen the way forward. I undertsand the manipulation because it has happened to me. This movement isn't going away and is getting stronger and stronger - what has happened in just a few weeks since May called the election has been incredible. And many people voting Conservative today will not be voting for them tomorrow. I was not going to vote Labour at the start of this election - I know how things can change.
Fuck me, you did it in the first fucking sentence. You're beyond parody!
You couldn't even get a sentence in without referring to those who don't hold your views as "deluded".
Congratulations, another one proves the point. Take a bow, mate.
Not fair becuase that is just as true for people on the other side. I was trying to explain the passion and acknowledge the other view if you read it properly. Obviously I post from my perspective, but that doesn't mean you have to wear blinkers! Pleas eread it again and undersatnd the meaning as you have totaly misrepresented the sentiment.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to make out like he was the one being victimised
So I'm the devil now?
You're not doing much to refute the point with that particular argument.
In fact you're highlighting the mechanism at which this abuse is defended, anyone who hold a difference of opinion is a fascist, is evil and hates the vulnerable. It becomes a lot easier to abuse someone when you dehumanise them.
And you've just demonstrated it perfectly, I doth my cap to you for the perfect demonstration.
I didn't mean you in particular! Unlike many, you bother to self-analyse and test your beliefs. Not that I would ever call you the victim in these debates - I've rarely seen people shoot you down with excessive force or misuse your words against you, or indeed resort to personal slurs.
However, to claim that there is a mechanism in place whereby left-wingers bully right-wingers to silence them...well, this goes against not just about any article comment box you might peer into but the entire history of mankind. The little people are subjugated, murdered, deprived and treated like shit by their supposed betters. Note that I'm not abusing anyone here, just recounting what history teaches us is inevitable. And if there's blowback against that, it comes from the position of disadvantage. What you're describing as 'bullying' is in fact desperation, the sound of protest and anguish from a group of people who know just how much we are all about to be fucked. This does not mean that we wish to shut down debate and silence Tory voters - quite the opposite. We want you to tell us why! Why you're voting Tory, what benefit it will bring! We want you to deconstruct what are often extremely lazy generalisations and zone in on what exactly you're doing this for. Perhaps if you do so well enough, our own self-criticising faculties might lead us to change our minds!
Alas, dodging the question and then claiming you're being bullied when someone asks you to put in the mental effort to defend your position is a default Tory position on this board. A few people do put in an effort and this is to be applauded (DamoNorthStand perhaps chief amongst them) but it seems far easier to dismiss the left as ranting bullies. Newsflash: we're not the bullies. We hate bullies. We want a society built on bullying (and worse) to turn towards the light.
What annoys me is Momemtum / Anarchists will be smashing stuff up tomorrow or the weekend if they don't get their own way. Much like after the Brexit vote. That's the difference between the loud left and what may prove to be the silent majority on the right. Sad times.
???
You're creating problems that haven't happened yet because of a dislike for people with left wing views. Bizarre.
I'll be accepting of the result whichever way it goes. As I was with last year and the year before that. That doesn't mean I'll give up on what I think is right.
That's the problem with the right, if they win tonight then they'll expect all of us lefties to leave them alone. Much like after the Brexit vote. (Ok I did that on purpose)
Are you hand on heart telling us you don't think they'll be far left criminal damage off the back of today at some point tomorrow or the weekend?
The local "Anti Fascists" are probably getting their mothers to wash their black skinny jeans already, all to -ahem- protest against those who had the audacity to exercise their democratic right in a way which was incompatible with their own.
This has basically descended into people fighting about whether people on the other side are fighting. Can't we all just get along? I made up with Santa Claus earlier through the mutual language of suggestive puns.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
Why do you think the term "silent Tory voters" has been coined? Because of what you've just said mate.
Can't speak for anyone else but when I believe in something I stand up and say it, no matter if I face being shot down. It's called conviction. I guess I have a bit more spine than those who hide their allegiances, like it's something to be ashamed or embarrassed about.
If Labour do not win - which is more than likely, I will give people hope. What we have here is not Conservative v Labour contest, but the birth of a movement. It has probably passed a lot by at the level of passion and support this man has created. I was an anti Corbynite and backed Smith, simply because I was fed the lies that are fed to us all. What has changed! This election has made me listen to him and I know what it is like to see the light. I would walk over broken glass for this man now, such has he connected with me. But it isn't just me, and I was shouting people down who backed him a couple of months ago.
This is a movement and the 1% should be crapping themselves because it will only grow. More and more of us know who you are and what your game is and we are coming for you.
I hope that gives you comfort but in reality Theresa May being hopeless has made Corbyn look good. A competent Tory leader would make mincemeat of him, just as a competent Labour leader would make easy work of May.
If Labour do not win then it'll be five years of brutal Tory austerity and I highly doubt Corbyn will be fighting the next election as leader of the second largest party.
Comments
Not at all.
Not at all the abuse, venom and bile that we're now talking about being subjected too.
No siree.
I see little in what you say has changed dramatically in the last 2 years, apart from terrorist attacks in the UK (and of course in Europe and worldwide).
If you believe what you say so vehemently (fair enough), I still can't understand how you can turn your beliefs completely on their head and in such a vehement way.
You're not doing much to refute the point with that particular argument.
In fact you're highlighting the mechanism at which this abuse is defended, anyone who hold a difference of opinion is a fascist, is evil and hates the vulnerable. It becomes a lot easier to abuse someone when you dehumanise them.
And you've just demonstrated it perfectly, I doth my cap to you for the perfect demonstration.
Why should I, as someone to the right (Center Right in all honesty), bother to partake in a discussion when it gets dragged down to that level?
No. I'll sit back, I'll ignore it and wait for the results to come in. I suspect they'll tell a different tale than the one shown on social media.
Funnily enough, I've never been subjected to any abuse when I've been in a voting booth. On the contrary, it's an equaliser and that nasty little mentality, and those bitter little words.. They mean nothing. Thus the silent ones suddenly find a voice.
That's what my dad always told me
I think (not certain) someone said this very early on and I thought, I'm not partaking this time, apart from the odd comment.
Is that not a little premature/over the top? If you are right on the movement part then Corbyn & Labour will substantially increase their vote count (forget seats for a minute) even if they don't win outright if he has truly gained the level of passion and support you believe he has.
So would you accept that if he doesn't substantially increase labours vote, against probably the worst conservative party, leader and election campaign for 20 years then it's abject failure and this movement you talk of is just that, all hot air? He's been rumbled, you've been hoodwinked and Labour should remove him (as in my view the conservatives should/will probably do with May before too long).
In 2015 I believe Labour received 30.4% of the vote and Conservative 36.9%, so this strength of movement, what can we expect, Labour to move up 15% so say 35% and conservatives down 15% to 31.5% of the vote? If not those numbers what do you think will show this 'movement' and ground swell you talk of?
In the past two years there has been a fair bit of change in my life and personal circumstances too where I have seen first-hand the effects of Tory cuts. I came very close to falling on hard times through no fault of my own and it made me think about if I hadn't pulled myself back whether I would have survived if we had 10 more years of the Tories. This is perhaps why I am quite vitriolic to flippant remarks made about people in difficult situations because a lot of it hits home as far as me and quite a few people close to me are concerned. Someone kept using 'dying children' as a punchline to a joke at some point in this thread and stuff like that, where I have had to see someone go through a situation where a remark like that has context, does feel like a personal attack due to the impact such issues have had on my mental state. A colleague once told me they had to use a food bank because benefits they were due were 4 weeks late. That made me irate in real life, so imagine how I felt reading on here remarks that people who use food banks have 50 inch tellies and Sky Sports and are too stupid to deserve benefits because they cannot manage their money.
I also oppose a hard Brexit and the Tories have gone from being a pro-EU, liberal, one-nation party to an isolationist, authoritarian movement who have all but given the middle finger to anyone not in their heartlands.
You're creating problems that haven't happened yet because of a dislike for people with left wing views. Bizarre.
I'll be accepting of the result whichever way it goes. As I was with last year and the year before that. That doesn't mean I'll give up on what I think is right.
That's the problem with the right, if they win tonight then they'll expect all of us lefties to leave them alone. Much like after the Brexit vote. (Ok I did that on purpose)
I am less critical of individuals as I see you as people who have not yet seen the way forward. I undertsand the manipulation because it has happened to me. This movement isn't going away and is getting stronger and stronger - what has happened in just a few weeks since May called the election has been incredible. And many people voting Conservative today will not be voting for them tomorrow. I was not going to vote Labour at the start of this election - I know how things can change.
You couldn't even get a sentence in without referring to those who don't hold your views as "deluded".
Congratulations, another one proves the point. Take a bow, mate.
As for the rest of your post, it comes across quite honestly as rather cultist. If the Conservatives only help the 1% - which is cracking as clearly they've rapidly placed me in that percentile, which is curious for a party that is apparently against social mobility - then who do those Momentum represent look out for? (I say Momentum, as I don't believe Labour voters are represented anymore.)
However, to claim that there is a mechanism in place whereby left-wingers bully right-wingers to silence them...well, this goes against not just about any article comment box you might peer into but the entire history of mankind. The little people are subjugated, murdered, deprived and treated like shit by their supposed betters. Note that I'm not abusing anyone here, just recounting what history teaches us is inevitable. And if there's blowback against that, it comes from the position of disadvantage. What you're describing as 'bullying' is in fact desperation, the sound of protest and anguish from a group of people who know just how much we are all about to be fucked. This does not mean that we wish to shut down debate and silence Tory voters - quite the opposite. We want you to tell us why! Why you're voting Tory, what benefit it will bring! We want you to deconstruct what are often extremely lazy generalisations and zone in on what exactly you're doing this for. Perhaps if you do so well enough, our own self-criticising faculties might lead us to change our minds!
Alas, dodging the question and then claiming you're being bullied when someone asks you to put in the mental effort to defend your position is a default Tory position on this board. A few people do put in an effort and this is to be applauded (DamoNorthStand perhaps chief amongst them) but it seems far easier to dismiss the left as ranting bullies. Newsflash: we're not the bullies. We hate bullies. We want a society built on bullying (and worse) to turn towards the light.
We're a Conservative country, other than in the cities. The Tories will win.
Can't speak for anyone else but when I believe in something I stand up and say it, no matter if I face being shot down. It's called conviction. I guess I have a bit more spine than those who hide their allegiances, like it's something to be ashamed or embarrassed about.
then straight down to tory headquarters to smash stuff up.
If Labour do not win then it'll be five years of brutal Tory austerity and I highly doubt Corbyn will be fighting the next election as leader of the second largest party.