If Labour do not win - which is more than likely, I will give people hope. What we have here is not Conservative v Labour contest, but the birth of a movement. It has probably passed a lot by at the level of passion and support this man has created. I was an anti Corbynite and backed Smith, simply because I was fed the lies that are fed to us all. What has changed! This election has made me listen to him and I know what it is like to see the light. I would walk over broken glass for this man now, such has he connected with me. But it isn't just me, and I was shouting people down who backed him a couple of months ago.
This is a movement and the 1% should be crapping themselves because it will only grow. More and more of us know who you are and what your game is and we are coming for you.
So posts about how Diane Abbott will destroy the country and Corbyn being a terrorist loving IRA supporting Marxist are not hysteria?
There's plenty of room on here for Tories and Labour alike. What I would have liked to have seen is a factual response pointing out the merits of 5 more years of Tories and why it would be worth the increase in poverty, increase in food bank usage, public services being cut, terrorist attacks increasing, NHS failing, children being failed etc. What has been eminently missing has been a justification to continue all this. The stock response for this war on the poor, disabled and public services is 'the economy', yet their economic record is in the sewer on more or less every metric and any so-called growth has not benefited most of the population. I get the feeling most people just vote Tory because it's the "safe" option. Shy Tory syndrome is less about being shouted down and more to do with people reluctant to consider the consequences of their vote. I feel pretty fucking horrible about my vote in 2015 leading to one of the worst governments since the end of the war and the repercussions it has had on 95% of the country, even if I made that vote in good faith.
If you are young and haven't voted- get out now and do so. It is your world, your future, not ours.
By that logic, if you're old and haven't voted - stay home and don't bother as it's none of your concern really.
The old always vote - they don't need to be told - the young need to find their voice or they will always get the shitty end of the stick.
By find their voice do you mean put a pair of shoes on?
Also I'm young and I vote, but my vote isn't just about the future of this country, it's about the wealth of knowledge those older than me have about the past.
But then looking at demographics I don't think that would fit in with your view.
I usually watch elections avidly but not this time.
Think I may stay up just to check in on here and watch the place go in to meltdown IF a Tory win is looking likely. Won't need booze to keep me up, the comments should keep me chuckling throughout.
Seriously. Clearly this stuff doesn't really matter much to you othewise you wouldn't post silly, provocative comments like that. But as someone directly effected by the process, who is seeing first hand the dismantling of our public sector, I fail to see anything to be glib about. Perhaps you could have a "chuckle" about the possible consequences outlined in @AddickUpNorth 's post about the increased risk to prison officers, because I can't see anything to laugh about in it?
Its actually my first time voting and I have a reason to do so, and it'll be a Tory vote because my family and I will be better off for it.
It's not those comments I laugh at. More the sweeping generalisations grown men and women will be making about people who voted for the Tories. I've seen all sorts of assumptions made about the type of voter they are on here (none of which I fall into) and it makes me laugh. I just imagine this is happening at the other end.
Sorry but that's nonsense. As someone whose job prospects are looking decidedly worse in the next 24 hours shouldn't I be allowed to be angry at the situation I find myself in through no fault of my own? Shouldn't @AddickUpNorth be able to have a rant at the increasingly difficult situation he and his colleagues find themselves in? The fact is many of us directly involved in the public sector have been trying to enlighten you and others as to the reality of what's happened already and will continue to happen at a faster rate due to your voting choice if it's Tory.
You can choose to ignore those warnings if you like and but you will not be able to ignore the effects. Whether that's increased waiting time in A&E, a worse care package for a relative, less classroom assistants for your kids or something as seemingly trivial as getting your rubbish collected only every three weeks (coming to your area soon btw!) these cuts will 100% effect you or your family in some way.
You might have voted to become "better off" financially, that's open to debate tbh, but if anyone thinks our public services, armed forces, NHS, railways, roads, etc, etc. will be in a better place in 2022 than even now, frankly prepare to be very disappointed...
How do you know Polo's (or his family members) job prospects wouldn't be looking decidedly worse in the next 24 hours if Labour got in and therefore on balance that amongst other things is why he's chosen to vote as he has?
Part of the problem with Politics is we all think we are right, much like the politicians themselves, you wrote '....have been trying to enlighten you and others as to the reality of what's happened already and will continue to happen at a faster rate due to your voting choice if it's Tory'
You seem to think that anyone voting for anything but labour is an imbecile and can't work things out for themselves or make their own mind up and form their own view. That's part of the problem with Politics these days, most MP's seem to think the electorate (and other MP's/Parties with opposing views) are idiots.......
I think it's fairly natural to assume that 99.9% of people are not involved in the international arms trade. I am sure if the prospects were worse, he'd tell us.
I genuinely have been debating (if that's the word) with some real stupid people on Fb who intend voting Tory. Their reasons are dumb as ****. That's not all of them mind.
I think you are sort of confirming my point, those without your viewpoint must be as dumb as ****.......
They think that well known pacifist, veggie Corbyn is a terrorist. They think the economy has improved under the Tories. That's not debateable - it's just rubbish.
Is he a veggie?
Makes him even more worthy of running the country in my eyes. Vegan would be better.
You can imagine the scene.....the UK and the EU are close to agreeing a great deal for Brexit then Corbyn goes and humiliates his hosts by turning down a bratwurst.
The exit poll – a survey of voters leaving polling stations – will be published at 10pm on Thursday. Exit polling correctly predicted the winners of the last four elections, although its record on predicting the exact number of seats each party wins is less reliable.
What annoys me is Momemtum / Anarchists will be smashing stuff up tomorrow or the weekend if they don't get their own way. Much like after the Brexit vote. That's the difference between the loud left and what may prove to be the silent majority on the right. Sad times.
If Labour do not win - which is more than likely, I will give people hope. What we have here is not Conservative v Labour contest, but the birth of a movement. It has probably passed a lot by at the level of passion and support this man has created. I was an anti Corbynite and backed Smith, simply because I was fed the lies that are fed to us all. What has changed! This election has made me listen to him and I know what it is like to see the light. I would walk over broken glass for this man now, such has he as connected with me. But it isn't just me, and I was shouting people down who backed him a couple of months ago.
This is a movement and the 1% should be crapping themselves because it will only grow. More and more of us know who you are and what your game is and we are coming for you.
Damn right. We may lose this battle but I believe people are waking up to the fact there is a different way, a fairer way of doing things. I hope those who tax dodge, who exploit, who take for granted this planet, it's resources and most important it's inhabitants enjoy the next few years because the tide is turning. Revel in it now cos when the revolution happens, your heads are on skewers.
The question put was why were there 200 pages on this thread, with little support for the Tories and I said I thought some people did not wish to debate with the hysteria on here.
The fact that the right wing press are also hysterical (I agree), is nothing to do with the question asked.
I think your response proved my point.
CL is predominently full of left leaning old queens who love the sound of their own voices?
This is a post that a good friend of mine made on Facebook, she gives me permission to share it.
I was campaigning in my local area yesterday but still getting occasional comments from people in the street who believe the nonsense being fed them by the mainstream media.Out of desperation to try and prevent ordinary people from voting against their best interests I plead with you to read the following:
"Here's what I'm really struggling to understand... All I've ever heard from people, for years, is "bloody bankers and their bonuses" "bloody rich and their offshore tax havens " "bloody politicians with their lying and second homes" “bloody corporations paying less tax than me” "bloody Establishment, they're all in it together” “it'll never change, there's no point in voting” And quite rightly so, I said all the same things. But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the Labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person. So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with… “she's strong and stable” “he's a clown” “he's not a leader” “look he can't even control his own party” “he'll ruin the economy” “how's he gonna pay for it all?!” “AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser” And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying “he's a clown” “he’s a threat to the country” “she's strong and stable” “he'll take us back to the 70s” And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. Theres no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) Because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen. And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together. You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in? You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in? You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in? You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Topshop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in? You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in? You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in? You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in? And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately. Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election. His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there. Unlike the tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up. And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners. Good, fuck them, it's long overdue."
#VoteLabour
Why did I get flagged twice for this when I was just quoting someone else?
Voting to keep the Tories out, wherever you live, is the only sane thing to do. Unless you own a newspaper, they do not represent you.
There's some real desperation here. Laughable.
What's laughable is the fact in the last two months no one has posted a single defensible reason to vote Tory unless you are a millionaire.
You have also ignored all the really desperate posts calling Corbyn a disaster or similar. Take off the right wing goggles for once.
I think some of the silent majority decided there was no point debating with hysteria.
Yep I'm sure some of the silent majority acted en masse. Always organising, that lot.
The CL poll will be interesting, because if I'm right the Tories will win the CL poll and if you're right Labour will.
By the way you could well be right.
Charlton Life got the EU Referendum wrong
#justsaying
That doesn't matter Len. It was questioned as to why in 200 pages there were few Tory supporters. I suggested the silent majority could be the answer. So we will see in a CL poll. Whether CL reflect real life is another matter entirely.
This is a post that a good friend of mine made on Facebook, she gives me permission to share it.
I was campaigning in my local area yesterday but still getting occasional comments from people in the street who believe the nonsense being fed them by the mainstream media.Out of desperation to try and prevent ordinary people from voting against their best interests I plead with you to read the following:
"Here's what I'm really struggling to understand... All I've ever heard from people, for years, is "bloody bankers and their bonuses" "bloody rich and their offshore tax havens " "bloody politicians with their lying and second homes" “bloody corporations paying less tax than me” "bloody Establishment, they're all in it together” “it'll never change, there's no point in voting” And quite rightly so, I said all the same things. But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the Labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person. So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with… “she's strong and stable” “he's a clown” “he's not a leader” “look he can't even control his own party” “he'll ruin the economy” “how's he gonna pay for it all?!” “AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser” And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying “he's a clown” “he’s a threat to the country” “she's strong and stable” “he'll take us back to the 70s” And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. Theres no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) Because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen. And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together. You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in? You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in? You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in? You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Topshop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in? You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in? You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in? You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in? And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately. Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election. His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there. Unlike the tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up. And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners. Good, fuck them, it's long overdue."
#VoteLabour
Why did I get flagged twice for this when I was just quoting someone else?
Cos some of the right wing CL 'snowflakes' can't access their safe places
The question put was why were there 200 pages on this thread, with little support for the Tories and I said I thought some people did not wish to debate with the hysteria on here.
The fact that the right wing press are also hysterical (I agree), is nothing to do with the question asked.
I think your response proved my point.
I visited CharltonLife a grand total of 0 times between April 28th and June 3rd; precisely because of the hysteria and shittiness of a lot of the political debates on here. I usually always had a tab open with CL on it.
I just grew tired of trying to present a coherent argument; nobody was out right offensive, on the contrary I seem to recall finding some decent middle ground and having some really good exchanges with the likes of @Fiiish. Now Twitter, that's where I've had some pretty nasty abuse!
I make @Covered End right though, there's not much Tory support being voiced because it soon becomes a bit a whack-a-mole game where you end up struggling to respond to the volume, and in some cases factual basis, for a lot of the points people are making.
It's a shame, because a proper debate can often bring common ground in to view and provide some perspective. I keep pointing it out, but I generally believe The Shy Tory factor is a real thing.
Undoubtedly the case in my opinion. People to the right of centre tend to *think* they are right whereas people to the left of centre *know* they are right. Nothing wrong with a bit of self belief but it isn't exactly conducive to a debate.
And if the first thing in someones hears reading this is "because I am right" then unfortunately there isnt really a point in discussing politics with you. That for me is why I have read but steered clear of this threads for the past month or so. And I consider myself very centre with a bit of right with a lot of left wing friends whom I can have proper discussions with.
Maybe it's the internet and the fact tones don't carry well which exacerbates things on here but posts like "we have had one million pages of comments without one credible argument for the Tories" when people like @Rob7Lee has put across many is exactly what I'm talking about.
Some people just don't want to listen or even concede the tiniest parts in a debate, and for me, although that happens on both sides, it is predominantly on the left.
Fair enough in a lot of cases, the right tend to view the left as reckless and that they piss money up the wall, whereas the left view the right as dangerous and evil. When you take that into account it's logical if you subscribe to that belief. To develop from that I think a lot more on the left hate the right than the right hate the left.
I'd like to point out the above relies on a few generalisations but I think generally stands true and is fair.
This is a post that a good friend of mine made on Facebook, she gives me permission to share it.
I was campaigning in my local area yesterday but still getting occasional comments from people in the street who believe the nonsense being fed them by the mainstream media.Out of desperation to try and prevent ordinary people from voting against their best interests I plead with you to read the following:
"Here's what I'm really struggling to understand... All I've ever heard from people, for years, is "bloody bankers and their bonuses" "bloody rich and their offshore tax havens " "bloody politicians with their lying and second homes" “bloody corporations paying less tax than me” "bloody Establishment, they're all in it together” “it'll never change, there's no point in voting” And quite rightly so, I said all the same things. But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the Labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person. So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with… “she's strong and stable” “he's a clown” “he's not a leader” “look he can't even control his own party” “he'll ruin the economy” “how's he gonna pay for it all?!” “AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser” And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying “he's a clown” “he’s a threat to the country” “she's strong and stable” “he'll take us back to the 70s” And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. Theres no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) Because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen. And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together. You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in? You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in? You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in? You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Topshop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in? You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in? You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in? You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in? And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately. Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election. His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there. Unlike the tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up. And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners. Good, fuck them, it's long overdue."
#VoteLabour
Why did I get flagged twice for this when I was just quoting someone else?
Perhaps ending it with "fuck them" is precisely the thing we're talking about now; hysteria and personal attacks that are pointlessly inflammatory and make the poster appear unable to make a coherent point.
This is a post that a good friend of mine made on Facebook, she gives me permission to share it.
I was campaigning in my local area yesterday but still getting occasional comments from people in the street who believe the nonsense being fed them by the mainstream media.Out of desperation to try and prevent ordinary people from voting against their best interests I plead with you to read the following:
"Here's what I'm really struggling to understand... All I've ever heard from people, for years, is "bloody bankers and their bonuses" "bloody rich and their offshore tax havens " "bloody politicians with their lying and second homes" “bloody corporations paying less tax than me” "bloody Establishment, they're all in it together” “it'll never change, there's no point in voting” And quite rightly so, I said all the same things. But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the Labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person. So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with… “she's strong and stable” “he's a clown” “he's not a leader” “look he can't even control his own party” “he'll ruin the economy” “how's he gonna pay for it all?!” “AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser” And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying “he's a clown” “he’s a threat to the country” “she's strong and stable” “he'll take us back to the 70s” And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. Theres no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) Because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen. And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together. You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in? You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in? You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in? You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Topshop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in? You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in? You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in? You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in? And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately. Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election. His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there. Unlike the tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up. And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners. Good, fuck them, it's long overdue."
#VoteLabour
Why did I get flagged twice for this when I was just quoting someone else?
Perhaps ending it with "fuck them" is precisely the thing we're talking about now; hysteria and personal attacks that are pointlessly inflammatory and make the poster appear unable to make a coherent point.
I usually watch elections avidly but not this time.
Think I may stay up just to check in on here and watch the place go in to meltdown IF a Tory win is looking likely. Won't need booze to keep me up, the comments should keep me chuckling throughout.
Seriously. Clearly this stuff doesn't really matter much to you othewise you wouldn't post silly, provocative comments like that. But as someone directly effected by the process, who is seeing first hand the dismantling of our public sector, I fail to see anything to be glib about. Perhaps you could have a "chuckle" about the possible consequences outlined in @AddickUpNorth 's post about the increased risk to prison officers, because I can't see anything to laugh about in it?
Its actually my first time voting and I have a reason to do so, and it'll be a Tory vote because my family and I will be better off for it.
It's not those comments I laugh at. More the sweeping generalisations grown men and women will be making about people who voted for the Tories. I've seen all sorts of assumptions made about the type of voter they are on here (none of which I fall into) and it makes me laugh. I just imagine this is happening at the other end.
Sorry but that's nonsense. As someone whose job prospects are looking decidedly worse in the next 24 hours shouldn't I be allowed to be angry at the situation I find myself in through no fault of my own? Shouldn't @AddickUpNorth be able to have a rant at the increasingly difficult situation he and his colleagues find themselves in? The fact is many of us directly involved in the public sector have been trying to enlighten you and others as to the reality of what's happened already and will continue to happen at a faster rate due to your voting choice if it's Tory.
You can choose to ignore those warnings if you like and but you will not be able to ignore the effects. Whether that's increased waiting time in A&E, a worse care package for a relative, less classroom assistants for your kids or something as seemingly trivial as getting your rubbish collected only every three weeks (coming to your area soon btw!) these cuts will 100% effect you or your family in some way.
You might have voted to become "better off" financially, that's open to debate tbh, but if anyone thinks our public services, armed forces, NHS, railways, roads, etc, etc. will be in a better place in 2022 than even now, frankly prepare to be very disappointed...
How do you know Polo's (or his family members) job prospects wouldn't be looking decidedly worse in the next 24 hours if Labour got in and therefore on balance that amongst other things is why he's chosen to vote as he has?
Part of the problem with Politics is we all think we are right, much like the politicians themselves, you wrote '....have been trying to enlighten you and others as to the reality of what's happened already and will continue to happen at a faster rate due to your voting choice if it's Tory'
You seem to think that anyone voting for anything but labour is an imbecile and can't work things out for themselves or make their own mind up and form their own view. That's part of the problem with Politics these days, most MP's seem to think the electorate (and other MP's/Parties with opposing views) are idiots.......
I think it's fairly natural to assume that 99.9% of people are not involved in the international arms trade. I am sure if the prospects were worse, he'd tell us.
I genuinely have been debating (if that's the word) with some real stupid people on Fb who intend voting Tory. Their reasons are dumb as ****. That's not all of them mind.
I think you are sort of confirming my point, those without your viewpoint must be as dumb as ****.......
They think that well known pacifist, veggie Corbyn is a terrorist. They think the economy has improved under the Tories. That's not debateable - it's just rubbish.
They more than likely just think they're a better shout than Corbyn and Labour
The question put was why were there 200 pages on this thread, with little support for the Tories and I said I thought some people did not wish to debate with the hysteria on here.
The fact that the right wing press are also hysterical (I agree), is nothing to do with the question asked.
I think your response proved my point.
I visited CharltonLife a grand total of 0 times between April 28th and June 3rd; precisely because of the hysteria and shittiness of a lot of the political debates on here. I usually always had a tab open with CL on it.
I just grew tired of trying to present a coherent argument; nobody was out right offensive, on the contrary I seem to recall finding some decent middle ground and having some really good exchanges with the likes of @Fiiish. Now Twitter, that's where I've had some pretty nasty abuse!
I make @Covered End right though, there's not much Tory support being voiced because it soon becomes a bit a whack-a-mole game where you end up struggling to respond to the volume, and in some cases factual basis, for a lot of the points people are making.
It's a shame, because a proper debate can often bring common ground in to view and provide some perspective. I keep pointing it out, but I generally believe The Shy Tory factor is a real thing.
Undoubtedly the case in my opinion. People to the right of centre tend to *think* they are right whereas people to the left of centre *know* they are right. Nothing wrong with a bit of self belief but it isn't e actly conducive to a debate.
And if the first thing in someones head reading this is "because I am right" then unfortunately there isnt really a point in discussing politics with you. That for me is why I have read but steered clear of this threads for the past month or so. And I consider myself very centre with a bit of right with a lot of left wing friends whom I can have proper discussions with.
Maybe it's the internet and the fact tones don't carry well which exacerbates things on here but posts like "we have had one million pages of comments without one credible argument for the Tories" when people like @Rob7Lee has put across many is exactly what I'm talking about.
Some people just don't want to listen or even concede the tiniest parts in a debate, and for me, although that happens on both sides, it is predominantly on the left.
Fair enough in a lot of cases, the right tend to view the left as reckless and that they piss money up the wall, whereas the left view the right as dangerous and evil. When you take that into account it's logical if you subscribe to that belief. To develop from that I think a lot more on the left hate the right than the right hate the left.
I'd like to point out the above relies on a few generalisations but I think generally stands true and is fair.
Spot on the money, and a quick search of Twitter for #GeneralElection provides ample examples of this.
Debates very quickly devolve into hyperbole and inflammatory personal attacks when one side refused to consider the opinion of the other. Sadly, there's a lot who would rather scream about The Nasty Party than hold an actual discussion.
I can't be bothered to debate with someone who's argument is "fuck you" or "you hate poor people" or bla bla bla.. So yeah, back in my box.
If Labour do not win - which is more than likely, I will give people hope. What we have here is not Conservative v Labour contest, but the birth of a movement. It has probably passed a lot by at the level of passion and support this man has created. I was an anti Corbynite and backed Smith, simply because I was fed the lies that are fed to us all. What has changed! This election has made me listen to him and I know what it is like to see the light. I would walk over broken glass for this man now, such has he connected with me. But it isn't just me, and I was shouting people down who backed him a couple of months ago.
This is a movement and the 1% should be crapping themselves because it will only grow. More and more of us know who you are and what your game is and we are coming for you.
This is a post that a good friend of mine made on Facebook, she gives me permission to share it.
I was campaigning in my local area yesterday but still getting occasional comments from people in the street who believe the nonsense being fed them by the mainstream media.Out of desperation to try and prevent ordinary people from voting against their best interests I plead with you to read the following:
"Here's what I'm really struggling to understand... All I've ever heard from people, for years, is "bloody bankers and their bonuses" "bloody rich and their offshore tax havens " "bloody politicians with their lying and second homes" “bloody corporations paying less tax than me” "bloody Establishment, they're all in it together” “it'll never change, there's no point in voting” And quite rightly so, I said all the same things. But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the Labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person. So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with… “she's strong and stable” “he's a clown” “he's not a leader” “look he can't even control his own party” “he'll ruin the economy” “how's he gonna pay for it all?!” “AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser” And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying “he's a clown” “he’s a threat to the country” “she's strong and stable” “he'll take us back to the 70s” And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. Theres no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) Because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen. And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together. You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in? You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in? You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in? You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Topshop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in? You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in? You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in? You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in? And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately. Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election. His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there. Unlike the tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up. And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners. Good, fuck them, it's long overdue."
#VoteLabour
Why did I get flagged twice for this when I was just quoting someone else?
Perhaps ending it with "fuck them" is precisely the thing we're talking about now; hysteria and personal attacks that are pointlessly inflammatory and make the poster appear unable to make a coherent point.
Just guessing, like.
Yes but I said I was quoting someone else
Right? And you still decided to share it, no?
Would you be offended if I said I have a friend who thinks you're an idiot? It's not my view, albeit I've endorsed it by sharing it, right?
Edit: I haven't flagged either post. I just find the irony quite amusing considering where the conversation has moved on to, and the content of the post.
This is a post that a good friend of mine made on Facebook, she gives me permission to share it.
I was campaigning in my local area yesterday but still getting occasional comments from people in the street who believe the nonsense being fed them by the mainstream media.Out of desperation to try and prevent ordinary people from voting against their best interests I plead with you to read the following:
"Here's what I'm really struggling to understand... All I've ever heard from people, for years, is "bloody bankers and their bonuses" "bloody rich and their offshore tax havens " "bloody politicians with their lying and second homes" “bloody corporations paying less tax than me” "bloody Establishment, they're all in it together” “it'll never change, there's no point in voting” And quite rightly so, I said all the same things. But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the Labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person. So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with… “she's strong and stable” “he's a clown” “he's not a leader” “look he can't even control his own party” “he'll ruin the economy” “how's he gonna pay for it all?!” “AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser” And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying “he's a clown” “he’s a threat to the country” “she's strong and stable” “he'll take us back to the 70s” And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. Theres no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) Because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen. And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together. You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in? You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in? You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in? You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Topshop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in? You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in? You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in? You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in? And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately. Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election. His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there. Unlike the tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up. And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners. Good, fuck them, it's long overdue."
#VoteLabour
Why did I get flagged twice for this when I was just quoting someone else?
Perhaps ending it with "fuck them" is precisely the thing we're talking about now; hysteria and personal attacks that are pointlessly inflammatory and make the poster appear unable to make a coherent point.
Just guessing, like.
Yes but I said I was quoting someone else
The fuck em bit is needless, it's like assuming every one of them is a tax dodging scum bag.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
Sadie, I think you should be excused the fuck em as you wrote with passion and conviction. We do have to be respectful, but please understand how some of us are feeling. We live in an unjust unfair society and a miracle has occured, an outsider has become the leader of the labour party, someone who literally has done no wrong and has been principled his entire life. Someone who saw the iraq war dossier for what is was, a complete fabrication and said so at the time, someone who is constantly known as a rebel because he a morally upright person and also someone who the leaders of the labour party never thought would get power or retain it.
So what do they do these labour party mp's do they get behind this just and moral person? No they try to oust him (i have only recently understood why), so he calls a labour election and what happens? 65% of the members of the labour party vote for him (largest ever majority). He has not just won once but twice to become the leader of the party. Meanwhile Theresa May sees all this backstabbing within the labour party and calls a general election thinking that this would be a good time to grab more power before the labour party get their house together and times worsen... But the people are being woken up by Corbyn, they I suspect, like me, they now realise their stupidity, they realise their mistake on listening to the media, even if they didn't fully realise they were (like me) and they see through the Tory lies and fabrications. They see the media and the Tories trying to smear Corbyn day in and day out but it has an increasingly lessening effect, the actions and policies of the man speak for themselves.
Sadie only wants basic social justice that nobody should oppose. It is hard we may have to wait another 5 years for it, but 5 years comes and goes like the blink of an eye.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
The only hateful and divisive comments I've seen actually have been from those who are intending to vote labour. If you want to know what causes shy Tory effect.. it's online bullying and general harassment of people who say they're going to vote conservative. Nobody votes to make other people's lives worse, they do it to make it better.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
Why do you think the term "silent Tory voters" has been coined? Because of what you've just said mate.
Yep. I've seen more of this internet bile and invective from my left leaning friends than i can stomach to be honest. They think they're supporting enlightened policies and caring about other people and helping the less fortunate in society but then they come out with all sorts of inflammatory vile language about hateful selfish tory voters. I just avoid discussing politics with them altogether. Essentially, they are just trying to bully people who don't agree with them. If there's one thing i can't stand, its a bully
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to make out like he was the one being victimised
Comments
This is a movement and the 1% should be crapping themselves because it will only grow. More and more of us know who you are and what your game is and we are coming for you.
There's plenty of room on here for Tories and Labour alike. What I would have liked to have seen is a factual response pointing out the merits of 5 more years of Tories and why it would be worth the increase in poverty, increase in food bank usage, public services being cut, terrorist attacks increasing, NHS failing, children being failed etc. What has been eminently missing has been a justification to continue all this. The stock response for this war on the poor, disabled and public services is 'the economy', yet their economic record is in the sewer on more or less every metric and any so-called growth has not benefited most of the population. I get the feeling most people just vote Tory because it's the "safe" option. Shy Tory syndrome is less about being shouted down and more to do with people reluctant to consider the consequences of their vote. I feel pretty fucking horrible about my vote in 2015 leading to one of the worst governments since the end of the war and the repercussions it has had on 95% of the country, even if I made that vote in good faith.
Also I'm young and I vote, but my vote isn't just about the future of this country, it's about the wealth of knowledge those older than me have about the past.
But then looking at demographics I don't think that would fit in with your view.
The exit poll – a survey of voters leaving polling stations – will be published at 10pm on Thursday. Exit polling correctly predicted the winners of the last four elections, although its record on predicting the exact number of seats each party wins is less reliable.
http://www.independent.co.uk/News/uk/politics/uk-general-election-2017-timeline-when-do-polls-open-close-exit-poll-google-doodle-tv-coverage-first-a7778476.html
Damn right. We may lose this battle but I believe people are waking up to the fact there is a different way, a fairer way of doing things. I hope those who tax dodge, who exploit, who take for granted this planet, it's resources and most important it's inhabitants enjoy the next few years because the tide is turning. Revel in it now cos when the revolution happens, your heads are on skewers.
You've always got the article 50 thread to fall back on
I suggested the silent majority could be the answer.
So we will see in a CL poll.
Whether CL reflect real life is another matter entirely.
Cos some of the right wing CL 'snowflakes' can't access their safe places
And if the first thing in someones hears reading this is "because I am right" then unfortunately there isnt really a point in discussing politics with you. That for me is why I have read but steered clear of this threads for the past month or so. And I consider myself very centre with a bit of right with a lot of left wing friends whom I can have proper discussions with.
Maybe it's the internet and the fact tones don't carry well which exacerbates things on here but posts like "we have had one million pages of comments without one credible argument for the Tories" when people like @Rob7Lee has put across many is exactly what I'm talking about.
Some people just don't want to listen or even concede the tiniest parts in a debate, and for me, although that happens on both sides, it is predominantly on the left.
Fair enough in a lot of cases, the right tend to view the left as reckless and that they piss money up the wall, whereas the left view the right as dangerous and evil. When you take that into account it's logical if you subscribe to that belief. To develop from that I think a lot more on the left hate the right than the right hate the left.
I'd like to point out the above relies on a few generalisations but I think generally stands true and is fair.
Just guessing, like.
Debates very quickly devolve into hyperbole and inflammatory personal attacks when one side refused to consider the opinion of the other. Sadly, there's a lot who would rather scream about The Nasty Party than hold an actual discussion.
I can't be bothered to debate with someone who's argument is "fuck you" or "you hate poor people" or bla bla bla.. So yeah, back in my box.
Would you be offended if I said I have a friend who thinks you're an idiot? It's not my view, albeit I've endorsed it by sharing it, right?
Edit: I haven't flagged either post. I just find the irony quite amusing considering where the conversation has moved on to, and the content of the post.
So what do they do these labour party mp's do they get behind this just and moral person? No they try to oust him (i have only recently understood why), so he calls a labour election and what happens? 65% of the members of the labour party vote for him (largest ever majority). He has not just won once but twice to become the leader of the party. Meanwhile Theresa May sees all this backstabbing within the labour party and calls a general election thinking that this would be a good time to grab more power before the labour party get their house together and times worsen... But the people are being woken up by Corbyn, they I suspect, like me, they now realise their stupidity, they realise their mistake on listening to the media, even if they didn't fully realise they were (like me) and they see through the Tory lies and fabrications. They see the media and the Tories trying to smear Corbyn day in and day out but it has an increasingly lessening effect, the actions and policies of the man speak for themselves.
Sadie only wants basic social justice that nobody should oppose. It is hard we may have to wait another 5 years for it, but 5 years comes and goes like the blink of an eye.
vote tory as they stand up for the downtrodden