I usually watch elections avidly but not this time.
Think I may stay up just to check in on here and watch the place go in to meltdown IF a Tory win is looking likely. Won't need booze to keep me up, the comments should keep me chuckling throughout.
Seriously. Clearly this stuff doesn't really matter much to you othewise you wouldn't post silly, provocative comments like that. But as someone directly effected by the process, who is seeing first hand the dismantling of our public sector, I fail to see anything to be glib about. Perhaps you could have a "chuckle" about the possible consequences outlined in @AddickUpNorth 's post about the increased risk to prison officers, because I can't see anything to laugh about in it?
Its actually my first time voting and I have a reason to do so, and it'll be a Tory vote because my family and I will be better off for it.
It's not those comments I laugh at. More the sweeping generalisations grown men and women will be making about people who voted for the Tories. I've seen all sorts of assumptions made about the type of voter they are on here (none of which I fall into) and it makes me laugh. I just imagine this is happening at the other end.
Sorry but that's nonsense. As someone whose job prospects are looking decidedly worse in the next 24 hours shouldn't I be allowed to be angry at the situation I find myself in through no fault of my own? Shouldn't @AddickUpNorth be able to have a rant at the increasingly difficult situation he and his colleagues find themselves in? The fact is many of us directly involved in the public sector have been trying to enlighten you and others as to the reality of what's happened already and will continue to happen at a faster rate due to your voting choice if it's Tory.
You can choose to ignore those warnings if you like and but you will not be able to ignore the effects. Whether that's increased waiting time in A&E, a worse care package for a relative, less classroom assistants for your kids or something as seemingly trivial as getting your rubbish collected only every three weeks (coming to your area soon btw!) these cuts will 100% effect you or your family in some way.
You might have voted to become "better off" financially, that's open to debate tbh, but if anyone thinks our public services, armed forces, NHS, railways, roads, etc, etc. will be in a better place in 2022 than even now, frankly prepare to be very disappointed...
How do you know Polo's (or his family members) job prospects wouldn't be looking decidedly worse in the next 24 hours if Labour got in and therefore on balance that amongst other things is why he's chosen to vote as he has?
Part of the problem with Politics is we all think we are right, much like the politicians themselves, you wrote '....have been trying to enlighten you and others as to the reality of what's happened already and will continue to happen at a faster rate due to your voting choice if it's Tory'
You seem to think that anyone voting for anything but labour is an imbecile and can't work things out for themselves or make their own mind up and form their own view. That's part of the problem with Politics these days, most MP's seem to think the electorate (and other MP's/Parties with opposing views) are idiots.......
Thanks for telling me both how I vote and what I think. It's all utter bollocks of course.
I don't think, "anyone voting for anything but labour is an imbecile and can't work things out for themselves or make their own mind up and form their own view" thanks. That's just basically a crappy strawman argument & very much playing the man rather than addressing the point I made as I've said nothing of the sort you suggested throughout this thread. Pretty poor of you tbh.
I've asked repeatedly for someone to spell out the positives of 7 years under a Tory PM. You made an effort which I acknowledged. I also pointed out what you suggested was irrelevant, misleading or failed to address the bigger picture beyond your personal situation. I stand by that but it doesn't mean I think you or anyone else on here is an imbecile.
As for what I know about Polo? I do know he's not in the public sector. So you're right, under a Labour government he might be one of the 5%'ers. But he might not be. He might be no worse off, he might even be better off. Who knows for absolute certain?
By contrast me and millions like me will wake up tomorrow in the 100% certainty that we will face further job losses, further pay freezes/cuts and further attacks on our pensions and conditions. There's no ambiguity about that whatsoever. He made a statement in my view that he would enjoy the fallout, I pointed out that for some of us this shit is real, all getting a bit tiring tbh and not really something to be a laughing matter. I'm pretty sure if the situation were reversed Polo might same the same.
Finally, what I said was factually correct wasn't it? Or did I make up the last 7 years of austerity policies implemented on the public sector?
Join the club. There are people in he private sector who have had pay freezes for years and don't have the have the unions to fall back on.
Thanks for telling me both how I vote and what I think. It's all utter bollocks of course.
I don't think, "anyone voting for anything but labour is an imbecile and can't work things out for themselves or make their own mind up and form their own view" thanks. That's just basically a crappy strawman argument & very much playing the man rather than addressing the point I made as I've said nothing of the sort you suggested throughout this thread. Pretty poor of you tbh.
I've asked repeatedly for someone to spell out the positives of 7 years under a Tory PM. You made an effort which I acknowledged. I also pointed out what you suggested was irrelevant, misleading or failed to address the bigger picture beyond your personal situation. I stand by that but it doesn't mean I think you or anyone else on here is an imbecile.
As for what I know about Polo? I do know he's not in the public sector. So you're right, under a Labour government he might be one of the 5%'ers. But he might not be. He might be no worse off, he might even be better off. Who knows for absolute certain?
By contrast me and millions like me will wake up tomorrow in the 100% certainty that we will face further job losses, further pay freezes/cuts and further attacks on our pensions and conditions. There's no ambiguity about that whatsoever. He made a statement in my view that he would enjoy the fallout, I pointed out that for some of us this shit is real, all getting a bit tiring tbh and not really something to be a laughing matter. I'm pretty sure if the situation were reversed Polo might same the same.
Finally, what I said was factually correct wasn't it? Or did I make up the last 7 years of austerity policies implemented on the public sector?
I don't disagree with there have been cuts in the public sector, pay rise freezes etc etc, my wife works in the public sector and has done for 14 years, the last ten being as a paid employee. But it's not vastly different i the private sector.
A lot of what you say is true, but it's easy to critize the past, and by that I mean, yes there has been austerity, yes they has been a pay freeze and lots of other things to boot, such as what everyone seems to ignore me when I say and provide numerous examples that under the Tories the richer end of society (those on £60k or more) have seen a not inconsiderable tax increase and removal of any benefit/tax benefit under the tories, lost their personal allowance etc etc, on the flip side the lower earners haven't had a tax increase and have seen the personal allowance not far off double. The broadest shoulders and all that, people seem to have short memories when it suits.
In 2010 I had a tax free allowance of around £4k, now it's a negative £7.5k meaning on the first day of the tax year before i've earn't a penny I already owe 7.5k, thereafter I get about 55% of what I earn.
Yet there is a continual spouting of how the higher earners have somehow got away with it, yet it's the complete opposite ( I appreciate there is an argument for more tax to be paid/collected in various places and levels). Both parties can spin you know.........
Also let me put a few myths straight about the private v public sector. My last company that I left in August 2016 made 37 of it's 89 staff redundant, over 40%. The company I joined in September last year between April 2015 and August 2016 made over 200 of it's 500 staff redundant, over 45%. This is very common in the Insurance industry in the City, last time I looked none of them were public employee's........ I can also tell you that the vast majority still employed have had NO pay rise for at least three years some as far back as 2008. But you don't read that in the press do you?
So guess what, some of 'this shit' is real in the private sector as well. If Labour get in tonight, vast waves of the insurance industry within 12-18 months will no longer be writing business in the UK. Why would they, they can just as easily write the business in Bermuda, Zurich or 101 other places at considerably lower cost and more profit and half of them aren't british owned companies, despite what we seem sometimes to think, the world of business doesn't revolve around London. So not only will the government lose that Corp Tax but also some seriously high earners not only will they not be paying the additional 5% tax you'll lose the 50% they are already paying........ but heh, lets not worry, Jeremy has it fully costed right?
In a nutshell, I believe, that if we rewound the clock back to 2010 and Corbyn and Labour took government then we would be in a far worse position than we are now, seriously worse.
I don't agree with an awful lot of the Tories polices and actions, but in my view, under current Labour, be careful what you wish for. You'll see an initial up tick, but by the time the end of the next parliament comes this country will be on it's knees like we've never seen since the 2nd world war ended. And for those of you in the 95% group, if you think in Motleys terms, 'they won't be coming for you' think again, once they've milked the rich cow and theres no milk left to take yet they are still a few barrels short, it'll trickle down the chain ....... rant over, got to go and vote!
I respect your position, but you make a lot of jumps. They are your jumps to make but they are not my facts.
Nowhere near the jumps you've made about this "movement" though.
Perhaps more importantly, the Conservatives seem to have won the battle of the working class, with an even larger 23-point lead for May among the key skilled working-class C2 voters often found in many marginal swing seats across the Midlands
It doesn't sound like this movement is a working class one, so who is it for? If these polls hold any resemblance to the final result, then a Tory 23 point lead amongst working class voters is not only a damning verdict on the party of the worker, but it's also a resounding rejection for the notion of a Corbyn led movement.
From my position, this movement strikes me as little more than an entire demographic losing their traditional political representation - with a Momentum backed hard left taking over the party and neglecting the concerns of its core voter base.
I'd also hazard that there are far more to be afraid than the 1%, and I'd include traditional Labour voters in that group.
So we are pitting those in the private sector who haven't had pay rises for years against those in the public sector who haven't had pay rises for years. Maybe they are both victims of this austerity con! Rather than look up for the causes, we are programmed to look down.
Thanks for telling me both how I vote and what I think. It's all utter bollocks of course.
I don't think, "anyone voting for anything but labour is an imbecile and can't work things out for themselves or make their own mind up and form their own view" thanks. That's just basically a crappy strawman argument & very much playing the man rather than addressing the point I made as I've said nothing of the sort you suggested throughout this thread. Pretty poor of you tbh.
I've asked repeatedly for someone to spell out the positives of 7 years under a Tory PM. You made an effort which I acknowledged. I also pointed out what you suggested was irrelevant, misleading or failed to address the bigger picture beyond your personal situation. I stand by that but it doesn't mean I think you or anyone else on here is an imbecile.
As for what I know about Polo? I do know he's not in the public sector. So you're right, under a Labour government he might be one of the 5%'ers. But he might not be. He might be no worse off, he might even be better off. Who knows for absolute certain?
By contrast me and millions like me will wake up tomorrow in the 100% certainty that we will face further job losses, further pay freezes/cuts and further attacks on our pensions and conditions. There's no ambiguity about that whatsoever. He made a statement in my view that he would enjoy the fallout, I pointed out that for some of us this shit is real, all getting a bit tiring tbh and not really something to be a laughing matter. I'm pretty sure if the situation were reversed Polo might same the same.
Finally, what I said was factually correct wasn't it? Or did I make up the last 7 years of austerity policies implemented on the public sector?
I don't disagree with there have been cuts in the public sector, pay rise freezes etc etc, my wife works in the public sector and has done for 14 years, the last ten being as a paid employee. But it's not vastly different i the private sector.
A lot of what you say is true, but it's easy to critize the past, and by that I mean, yes there has been austerity, yes they has been a pay freeze and lots of other things to boot, such as what everyone seems to ignore me when I say and provide numerous examples that under the Tories the richer end of society (those on £60k or more) have seen a not inconsiderable tax increase and removal of any benefit/tax benefit under the tories, lost their personal allowance etc etc, on the flip side the lower earners haven't had a tax increase and have seen the personal allowance not far off double. The broadest shoulders and all that, people seem to have short memories when it suits.
In 2010 I had a tax free allowance of around £4k, now it's a negative £7.5k meaning on the first day of the tax year before i've earn't a penny I already owe 7.5k, thereafter I get about 55% of what I earn.
Yet there is a continual spouting of how the higher earners have somehow got away with it, yet it's the complete opposite ( I appreciate there is an argument for more tax to be paid/collected in various places and levels). Both parties can spin you know.........
Also let me put a few myths straight about the private v public sector. My last company that I left in August 2016 made 37 of it's 89 staff redundant, over 40%. The company I joined in September last year between April 2015 and August 2016 made over 200 of it's 500 staff redundant, over 45%. This is very common in the Insurance industry in the City, last time I looked none of them were public employee's........ I can also tell you that the vast majority still employed have had NO pay rise for at least three years some as far back as 2008. But you don't read that in the press do you?
So guess what, some of 'this shit' is real in the private sector as well. If Labour get in tonight, vast waves of the insurance industry within 12-18 months will no longer be writing business in the UK. Why would they, they can just as easily write the business in Bermuda, Zurich or 101 other places at considerably lower cost and more profit and half of them aren't british owned companies, despite what we seem sometimes to think, the world of business doesn't revolve around London. So not only will the government lose that Corp Tax but also some seriously high earners not only will they not be paying the additional 5% tax you'll lose the 50% they are already paying........ but heh, lets not worry, Jeremy has it fully costed right?
In a nutshell, I believe, that if we rewound the clock back to 2010 and Corbyn and Labour took government then we would be in a far worse position than we are now, seriously worse.
I don't agree with an awful lot of the Tories polices and actions, but in my view, under current Labour, be careful what you wish for. You'll see an initial up tick, but by the time the end of the next parliament comes this country will be on it's knees like we've never seen since the 2nd world war ended. And for those of you in the 95% group, if you think in Motleys terms, 'they won't be coming for you' think again, once they've milked the rich cow and theres no milk left to take yet they are still a few barrels short, it'll trickle down the chain ....... rant over, got to go and vote!
I respect your position, but you make a lot of jumps. They are your jumps to make but they are not my facts.
Wheres my jumps muttley?
Any comment on the fact that under the tories the lower paid (the dirty scoundrels ) have received tax cuts whereas the higher paid have been walloped? Or we still sticking to the tories looking after the higher earners since 2010?
I meant to also say to Bournemouth about pensions, probably best not to raise that one with the private sector, we all had our final salary one's taken away in the mid 90's, yup, none of this you'll have to pay a smidgen more rubbish like the teachers etc, no, it's stopped full stop, get on a lovely defined contribution scheme and pay a shed load in, oh and we're freezing what you had built up at your 1995 salary.............
I usually watch elections avidly but not this time.
Think I may stay up just to check in on here and watch the place go in to meltdown IF a Tory win is looking likely. Won't need booze to keep me up, the comments should keep me chuckling throughout.
Seriously. Clearly this stuff doesn't really matter much to you othewise you wouldn't post silly, provocative comments like that. But as someone directly effected by the process, who is seeing first hand the dismantling of our public sector, I fail to see anything to be glib about. Perhaps you could have a "chuckle" about the possible consequences outlined in @AddickUpNorth 's post about the increased risk to prison officers, because I can't see anything to laugh about in it?
Its actually my first time voting and I have a reason to do so, and it'll be a Tory vote because my family and I will be better off for it.
It's not those comments I laugh at. More the sweeping generalisations grown men and women will be making about people who voted for the Tories. I've seen all sorts of assumptions made about the type of voter they are on here (none of which I fall into) and it makes me laugh. I just imagine this is happening at the other end.
Sorry but that's nonsense. As someone whose job prospects are looking decidedly worse in the next 24 hours shouldn't I be allowed to be angry at the situation I find myself in through no fault of my own? Shouldn't @AddickUpNorth be able to have a rant at the increasingly difficult situation he and his colleagues find themselves in? The fact is many of us directly involved in the public sector have been trying to enlighten you and others as to the reality of what's happened already and will continue to happen at a faster rate due to your voting choice if it's Tory.
You can choose to ignore those warnings if you like and but you will not be able to ignore the effects. Whether that's increased waiting time in A&E, a worse care package for a relative, less classroom assistants for your kids or something as seemingly trivial as getting your rubbish collected only every three weeks (coming to your area soon btw!) these cuts will 100% effect you or your family in some way.
You might have voted to become "better off" financially, that's open to debate tbh, but if anyone thinks our public services, armed forces, NHS, railways, roads, etc, etc. will be in a better place in 2022 than even now, frankly prepare to be very disappointed...
How do you know Polo's (or his family members) job prospects wouldn't be looking decidedly worse in the next 24 hours if Labour got in and therefore on balance that amongst other things is why he's chosen to vote as he has?
Part of the problem with Politics is we all think we are right, much like the politicians themselves, you wrote '....have been trying to enlighten you and others as to the reality of what's happened already and will continue to happen at a faster rate due to your voting choice if it's Tory'
You seem to think that anyone voting for anything but labour is an imbecile and can't work things out for themselves or make their own mind up and form their own view. That's part of the problem with Politics these days, most MP's seem to think the electorate (and other MP's/Parties with opposing views) are idiots.......
Thanks for telling me both how I vote and what I think. It's all utter bollocks of course.
I don't think, "anyone voting for anything but labour is an imbecile and can't work things out for themselves or make their own mind up and form their own view" thanks. That's just basically a crappy strawman argument & very much playing the man rather than addressing the point I made as I've said nothing of the sort you suggested throughout this thread. Pretty poor of you tbh.
I've asked repeatedly for someone to spell out the positives of 7 years under a Tory PM. You made an effort which I acknowledged. I also pointed out what you suggested was irrelevant, misleading or failed to address the bigger picture beyond your personal situation. I stand by that but it doesn't mean I think you or anyone else on here is an imbecile.
As for what I know about Polo? I do know he's not in the public sector. So you're right, under a Labour government he might be one of the 5%'ers. But he might not be. He might be no worse off, he might even be better off. Who knows for absolute certain?
By contrast me and millions like me will wake up tomorrow in the 100% certainty that we will face further job losses, further pay freezes/cuts and further attacks on our pensions and conditions. There's no ambiguity about that whatsoever. He made a statement in my view that he would enjoy the fallout, I pointed out that for some of us this shit is real, all getting a bit tiring tbh and not really something to be a laughing matter. I'm pretty sure if the situation were reversed Polo might same the same.
Finally, what I said was factually correct wasn't it? Or did I make up the last 7 years of austerity policies implemented on the public sector?
BA, I'm not laughing at your situation, far from it. I sympathise and in my short career, have been through many rounds of redundancies so know what it's like. The comments here just make me laugh. Most people don't know other people's situations, yet they are called stupid, idiots, etc etc for having a reason to vote for another party.
I don't read or care for all the crap the sun print about Corbyn or all the shit I've read on social media about May. I've read the manifestos and made a decision based on what is best for my family and I at this time in our lives. I'm not a 5%'er and I don't earn over 80k but I do know that I will be financially better off at this time in my life if Labour do not win the election. If that means my rubbish is only collected three times a month or the wait at A&E is longer then so be it. Call it selfish, say I don't care about our public services, that's fine. I'm at a time in my life where I have to think about number 1 and that's what I'm doing as I know based on the manifestos I am better off with a Tory government. Doing so does not make me an imbecile, an idiot (I know not necessarily your words) or whatever else has been used to describe Tory voters.
Well for starters, there are far more qualified economists than you or I that are saying that Labour's manifesto is the only sensible one. You assume the country will be ruined but that is your personal jump. It is a jump because it is what you think, not what you know. We all make jumps based on our research and understanding but of course, we think our jumps are right. I could post a number of lectures from respected economists but I am sure you wouldn't listen to them - you can look them up anyway -Mark Blyth is one. Now if you did that, your jumps would be more informed because you would have seen the counter argument which has not persuaded you from your current position. But at least you would have considered it.
There are economists who have different views, but they have not been used in the anti growth Tory argument or have been stated on here much if at all - simply a basic nursery school premise that you can't spend what you don't have.
So we are pitting those in the private sector who haven't had pay rises for years against those in the public sector who haven't had pay rises for years. Maybe they are both victims of this austerity con! Rather than look up for the causes, we are programmed to look down.
Not at all, but a lot of what i've heard in general and on here is how bad the public sector have it, your good mate Jazzer keeps spouting it doesn't he? In the main i'm not doubting it but just because the private sector doesn't get reported as much or we don't shout about it from the roof tops, go on strike and make placards doesn't mean it isn't happening......
Well for starters, there are far more qualified economists than you or I that are saying that Labour's manifesto is the only sensible one. You assume the country will be ruined but that is your personal jump. It is a jump because it is what you think, not what you know. We all make jumps based on our research and understanding but of course, we think our jumps are right. I could post a number of lectures from respected economists but I am sure you wouldn't listen to them - you can look them up anyway -Mark Blyth is one. Now if you did that, your jumps would be more informed because you would have seen the counter argument which has not persuaded you from your current position. But at least you would have considered it.
There are economists who have different views, but they have not been used in the anti growth Tory argument or have bene stated on here much if at all - simply a basic nursery school premise that you can't spend what you don't have.
So how do you know I haven't looked at all the various arguments/reports, or indeed for all you know I may have a masters degree economics.......
I don't have one by the way you'll be surprised to hear even seen the film Lock Up? I have always sort of lived my life by that motto Stallone says - DTA, don't trust anyone, i've always been a questioner, i'll gather all the information and make my own mind up, i;ve always backed my own decisions (which haven't always been right) and my own ability.
You can of course spend what you don't have, just ask most of the country and anyone with a buy to let mortgage....... but didn't think we liked those sort of nasty money making people?
Thanks for telling me both how I vote and what I think. It's all utter bollocks of course.
I don't think, "anyone voting for anything but labour is an imbecile and can't work things out for themselves or make their own mind up and form their own view" thanks. That's just basically a crappy strawman argument & very much playing the man rather than addressing the point I made as I've said nothing of the sort you suggested throughout this thread. Pretty poor of you tbh.
I've asked repeatedly for someone to spell out the positives of 7 years under a Tory PM. You made an effort which I acknowledged. I also pointed out what you suggested was irrelevant, misleading or failed to address the bigger picture beyond your personal situation. I stand by that but it doesn't mean I think you or anyone else on here is an imbecile.
As for what I know about Polo? I do know he's not in the public sector. So you're right, under a Labour government he might be one of the 5%'ers. But he might not be. He might be no worse off, he might even be better off. Who knows for absolute certain?
By contrast me and millions like me will wake up tomorrow in the 100% certainty that we will face further job losses, further pay freezes/cuts and further attacks on our pensions and conditions. There's no ambiguity about that whatsoever. He made a statement in my view that he would enjoy the fallout, I pointed out that for some of us this shit is real, all getting a bit tiring tbh and not really something to be a laughing matter. I'm pretty sure if the situation were reversed Polo might same the same.
Finally, what I said was factually correct wasn't it? Or did I make up the last 7 years of austerity policies implemented on the public sector?
I don't disagree with there have been cuts in the public sector, pay rise freezes etc etc, my wife works in the public sector and has done for 14 years, the last ten being as a paid employee. But it's not vastly different i the private sector.
A lot of what you say is true, but it's easy to critize the past, and by that I mean, yes there has been austerity, yes they has been a pay freeze and lots of other things to boot, such as what everyone seems to ignore me when I say and provide numerous examples that under the Tories the richer end of society (those on £60k or more) have seen a not inconsiderable tax increase and removal of any benefit/tax benefit under the tories, lost their personal allowance etc etc, on the flip side the lower earners haven't had a tax increase and have seen the personal allowance not far off double. The broadest shoulders and all that, people seem to have short memories when it suits.
In 2010 I had a tax free allowance of around £4k, now it's a negative £7.5k meaning on the first day of the tax year before i've earn't a penny I already owe 7.5k, thereafter I get about 55% of what I earn.
Yet there is a continual spouting of how the higher earners have somehow got away with it, yet it's the complete opposite ( I appreciate there is an argument for more tax to be paid/collected in various places and levels). Both parties can spin you know.........
Also let me put a few myths straight about the private v public sector. My last company that I left in August 2016 made 37 of it's 89 staff redundant, over 40%. The company I joined in September last year between April 2015 and August 2016 made over 200 of it's 500 staff redundant, over 45%. This is very common in the Insurance industry in the City, last time I looked none of them were public employee's........ I can also tell you that the vast majority still employed have had NO pay rise for at least three years some as far back as 2008. But you don't read that in the press do you?
So guess what, some of 'this shit' is real in the private sector as well. If Labour get in tonight, vast waves of the insurance industry within 12-18 months will no longer be writing business in the UK. Why would they, they can just as easily write the business in Bermuda, Zurich or 101 other places at considerably lower cost and more profit and half of them aren't british owned companies, despite what we seem sometimes to think, the world of business doesn't revolve around London. So not only will the government lose that Corp Tax but also some seriously high earners not only will they not be paying the additional 5% tax you'll lose the 50% they are already paying........ but heh, lets not worry, Jeremy has it fully costed right?
In a nutshell, I believe, that if we rewound the clock back to 2010 and Corbyn and Labour took government then we would be in a far worse position than we are now, seriously worse.
I don't agree with an awful lot of the Tories polices and actions, but in my view, under current Labour, be careful what you wish for. You'll see an initial up tick, but by the time the end of the next parliament comes this country will be on it's knees like we've never seen since the 2nd world war ended. And for those of you in the 95% group, if you think in Motleys terms, 'they won't be coming for you' think again, once they've milked the rich cow and theres no milk left to take yet they are still a few barrels short, it'll trickle down the chain ....... rant over, got to go and vote!
I have never said that people in the private sector have not experienced pay depression or job losses. Why would I say that?
In fact I've been extremely critical of the current explosion of low wage, insecure contracts in the (private sector) workplace. So the very opposit to making daft comments to the effect that I'll find it amusing to see peoples reactions to a result that might mean others lose their job.
We get that you don't agree with the proposed tax regime. You've argued your case, its been discussed by those who agree and those who disagree and we'll probably never get to find out who was right or wrong. All fair enough, that's what this thread is all about. Or should be.
What I don't get is why you've taken it upon yourself to start making character judgements and putting words into my mouth that I've never said.
That said we ain't getting anywhere here and I certainly don't bear you or anyone else on here any I'll feeling regardless of the results. Life's too short for all that.
So we are pitting those in the private sector who haven't had pay rises for years against those in the public sector who haven't had pay rises for years. Maybe they are both victims of this austerity con! Rather than look up for the causes, we are programmed to look down.
Not at all, but a lot of what i've heard in general and on here is how bad the public sector have it, your good mate Jazzer keeps spouting it doesn't he? In the main i'm not doubting it but just because the private sector doesn't get reported as much or we don't shout about it from the roof tops, go on strike and make placards doesn't mean it isn't happening......
Well for starters, there are far more qualified economists than you or I that are saying that Labour's manifesto is the only sensible one. You assume the country will be ruined but that is your personal jump. It is a jump because it is what you think, not what you know. We all make jumps based on our research and understanding but of course, we think our jumps are right. I could post a number of lectures from respected economists but I am sure you wouldn't listen to them - you can look them up anyway -Mark Blyth is one. Now if you did that, your jumps would be more informed because you would have seen the counter argument which has not persuaded you from your current position. But at least you would have considered it.
There are economists who have different views, but they have not been used in the anti growth Tory argument or have bene stated on here much if at all - simply a basic nursery school premise that you can't spend what you don't have.
So how do you know I haven't looked at all the various arguments/reports, or indeed for all you know I may have a masters degree economics.......
I don't have one by the way you'll be surprised to hear even seen the film Lock Up? I have always sort of lived my life by that motto Stallone says - DTA, don't trust anyone, i've always been a questioner, i'll gather all the information and make my own mind up, i;ve always backed my own decisions (which haven't always been right) and my own ability.
You can of course spend what you don't have, just ask most of the country and anyone with a buy to let mortgage....... but didn't think we liked those sort of nasty money making people?
Well I made an assumption from your lack of rigour behind the assumption we would be buggered financially. It seems I was right so my jump was correct in this instance, but I accept it was a jump and could have been wrong
Comments
Even The Guardian are pointing out that - based on the analysis of polls so far - the working class vote is abandoning the Corbyn led Labour: It doesn't sound like this movement is a working class one, so who is it for? If these polls hold any resemblance to the final result, then a Tory 23 point lead amongst working class voters is not only a damning verdict on the party of the worker, but it's also a resounding rejection for the notion of a Corbyn led movement.
From my position, this movement strikes me as little more than an entire demographic losing their traditional political representation - with a Momentum backed hard left taking over the party and neglecting the concerns of its core voter base.
I'd also hazard that there are far more to be afraid than the 1%, and I'd include traditional Labour voters in that group.
Any comment on the fact that under the tories the lower paid (the dirty scoundrels
I meant to also say to Bournemouth about pensions, probably best not to raise that one with the private sector, we all had our final salary one's taken away in the mid 90's, yup, none of this you'll have to pay a smidgen more rubbish like the teachers etc, no, it's stopped full stop, get on a lovely defined contribution scheme and pay a shed load in, oh and we're freezing what you had built up at your 1995 salary.............
I don't read or care for all the crap the sun print about Corbyn or all the shit I've read on social media about May. I've read the manifestos and made a decision based on what is best for my family and I at this time in our lives. I'm not a 5%'er and I don't earn over 80k but I do know that I will be financially better off at this time in my life if Labour do not win the election. If that means my rubbish is only collected three times a month or the wait at A&E is longer then so be it. Call it selfish, say I don't care about our public services, that's fine. I'm at a time in my life where I have to think about number 1 and that's what I'm doing as I know based on the manifestos I am better off with a Tory government. Doing so does not make me an imbecile, an idiot (I know not necessarily your words) or whatever else has been used to describe Tory voters.
There are economists who have different views, but they have not been used in the anti growth Tory argument or have been stated on here much if at all - simply a basic nursery school premise that you can't spend what you don't have.
So how do you know I haven't looked at all the various arguments/reports, or indeed for all you know I may have a masters degree economics.......
I don't have one by the way you'll be surprised to hear
You can of course spend what you don't have, just ask most of the country and anyone with a buy to let mortgage....... but didn't think we liked those sort of nasty money making people?
In fact I've been extremely critical of the current explosion of low wage, insecure contracts in the (private sector) workplace. So the very opposit to making daft comments to the effect that I'll find it amusing to see peoples reactions to a result that might mean others lose their job.
We get that you don't agree with the proposed tax regime. You've argued your case, its been discussed by those who agree and those who disagree and we'll probably never get to find out who was right or wrong. All fair enough, that's what this thread is all about. Or should be.
What I don't get is why you've taken it upon yourself to start making character judgements and putting words into my mouth that I've never said.
That said we ain't getting anywhere here and I certainly don't bear you or anyone else on here any I'll feeling regardless of the results. Life's too short for all that.
LLLABH!
CON 314
LAB 266
SNP 34
LD 14
PC 3
GRN 1