How do the Tories need to change?
Comments
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Has anyone seen Peter Bone and Bill Cash in the same room at the same time? Because I'm pretty sure their brain cell is on a time share arrangement.Chaz Hill said:
Don’t forget Peter Bone. About time he was brought into the frontline. He’ll sort them EUers outhoof_it_up_to_benty said:I'm hoping that Rees-Mogg and Bojo team up to push the Brexit agenda - May can't be trusted and needs to be ousted. Michael Gove needs to be given a key role.
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This just my personal opinion but I think the Lib Dems got a tad shafted by the electorate in 2015. I get all the feeling of being betrayed when they got involved in the coalition and clegg with tuition fees, but how their voters deserted them really baffled me. They have some decent politicians in Cable and the Millwall one who was MP in Bermondsey (I think). Their demise on a national level really set our political maturity as a country back quite a bit for me.seth plum said:
Maybe if people are pissed off with the Tories, but don't like Corbyn they will vote Liberal. Liberal get more seats and collaborate with the Labour party.Rob7Lee said:I don't think on either side there will be mass defections to start up a new party, we can but hope.
I suspect May is probably delighted with her result of only losing 2 councils and 33 councillors and Corbyn is gutted to have gained no more councils and only 77 more councillors despite the work put in busing momentum into the key targeted areas. Lib Dems have been the real winners from where they started, 75 new councillors and 4 new councils. Greens did Ok as well with 8 new councillors.
This was local elections after 8 years of tory rule (or 3 of just tory no coalition) which normally with any ruling party means they get a kicking, if you add into that the recent horror stories against the tories Labour should have done 10 times better even with their own recent issue.
If this trend continues we're in for an uncomfortable period if Corbyn cannot make his brand of politics work well enough to get into power as the Labour Party by then will have already changed and the far left will already have a strangle hold on the party.
The message is Tory austerity dominance does not need to continue to crush the population.
We’ve been left with two individuals and ideologies you loathe, depending on what side of the fence you sit, where you vote to keep the other one out (in my opinion)2 -
At s local Essex level, the Tory vote seems to have picked up UKIP votes at the expense of LibDems and resident parties. However I am a Green councillor and upped the vote and trounced the Tory into second place by a long way.
We are prime Brexit territory and the Tories played that card for the District election but people don't trust them in our ward because of overdevelopment without sustainable infrastructure.
And the local Tory party is ancient and will eventually die off.3 -
I think it was also about intense and highly skilled manoeuvring by Lynton Crosby and the Tory 'machine' backed up as usual by the Tory media. Perhaps the Liberals thought that their new mates the Tories wouldn't go hard on them compared to Labour because of the coalition they supported, but instead they got ruthlessly targeted and wiped out by Tories in a lot of their constituencies especially in the West and South West.cabbles said:
This just my personal opinion but I think the Lib Dems got a tad shafted by the electorate in 2015. I get all the feeling of being betrayed when they got involved in the coalition and clegg with tuition fees, but how their voters deserted them really baffled me. They have some decent politicians in Cable and the Millwall one who was MP in Bermondsey (I think). Their demise on a national level really set our political maturity as a country back quite a bit for me.seth plum said:
Maybe if people are pissed off with the Tories, but don't like Corbyn they will vote Liberal. Liberal get more seats and collaborate with the Labour party.Rob7Lee said:I don't think on either side there will be mass defections to start up a new party, we can but hope.
I suspect May is probably delighted with her result of only losing 2 councils and 33 councillors and Corbyn is gutted to have gained no more councils and only 77 more councillors despite the work put in busing momentum into the key targeted areas. Lib Dems have been the real winners from where they started, 75 new councillors and 4 new councils. Greens did Ok as well with 8 new councillors.
This was local elections after 8 years of tory rule (or 3 of just tory no coalition) which normally with any ruling party means they get a kicking, if you add into that the recent horror stories against the tories Labour should have done 10 times better even with their own recent issue.
If this trend continues we're in for an uncomfortable period if Corbyn cannot make his brand of politics work well enough to get into power as the Labour Party by then will have already changed and the far left will already have a strangle hold on the party.
The message is Tory austerity dominance does not need to continue to crush the population.
We’ve been left with two individuals and ideologies you loathe, depending on what side of the fence you sit, where you vote to keep the other one out (in my opinion)1 -
It’s a shambles now because I truly believe we’ve got no alternativeseth plum said:
I think it was also about intense and highly skilled manoeuvring by Lynton Crosby and the Tory 'machine' backed up as usual by the Tory media. Perhaps the Liberals thought that their new mates the Tories wouldn't go hard on them compared to Labour because of the coalition they supported, but instead they got ruthlessly targeted and wiped out by Tories in a lot of their constituencies especially in the West and South West.cabbles said:
This just my personal opinion but I think the Lib Dems got a tad shafted by the electorate in 2015. I get all the feeling of being betrayed when they got involved in the coalition and clegg with tuition fees, but how their voters deserted them really baffled me. They have some decent politicians in Cable and the Millwall one who was MP in Bermondsey (I think). Their demise on a national level really set our political maturity as a country back quite a bit for me.seth plum said:
Maybe if people are pissed off with the Tories, but don't like Corbyn they will vote Liberal. Liberal get more seats and collaborate with the Labour party.Rob7Lee said:I don't think on either side there will be mass defections to start up a new party, we can but hope.
I suspect May is probably delighted with her result of only losing 2 councils and 33 councillors and Corbyn is gutted to have gained no more councils and only 77 more councillors despite the work put in busing momentum into the key targeted areas. Lib Dems have been the real winners from where they started, 75 new councillors and 4 new councils. Greens did Ok as well with 8 new councillors.
This was local elections after 8 years of tory rule (or 3 of just tory no coalition) which normally with any ruling party means they get a kicking, if you add into that the recent horror stories against the tories Labour should have done 10 times better even with their own recent issue.
If this trend continues we're in for an uncomfortable period if Corbyn cannot make his brand of politics work well enough to get into power as the Labour Party by then will have already changed and the far left will already have a strangle hold on the party.
The message is Tory austerity dominance does not need to continue to crush the population.
We’ve been left with two individuals and ideologies you loathe, depending on what side of the fence you sit, where you vote to keep the other one out (in my opinion)
Someone like me will always choose Labour because I hate the Tories, whereas plenty of people will do whatever they can to keep Labour out. The two parties seem to be going further apart in ideologies because they think they have to appeal to the two extremes. There are swathes of people that would benefit from a party in between, now more than ever0 -
And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.9
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This is where some form of proportional representation would help. We are not a binary society anymore. Unfortunately the Tories and Labour can't accept this because it means that they will never be able to govern alone.cabbles said:
It’s a shambles now because I truly believe we’ve got no alternativeseth plum said:
I think it was also about intense and highly skilled manoeuvring by Lynton Crosby and the Tory 'machine' backed up as usual by the Tory media. Perhaps the Liberals thought that their new mates the Tories wouldn't go hard on them compared to Labour because of the coalition they supported, but instead they got ruthlessly targeted and wiped out by Tories in a lot of their constituencies especially in the West and South West.cabbles said:
This just my personal opinion but I think the Lib Dems got a tad shafted by the electorate in 2015. I get all the feeling of being betrayed when they got involved in the coalition and clegg with tuition fees, but how their voters deserted them really baffled me. They have some decent politicians in Cable and the Millwall one who was MP in Bermondsey (I think). Their demise on a national level really set our political maturity as a country back quite a bit for me.seth plum said:
Maybe if people are pissed off with the Tories, but don't like Corbyn they will vote Liberal. Liberal get more seats and collaborate with the Labour party.Rob7Lee said:I don't think on either side there will be mass defections to start up a new party, we can but hope.
I suspect May is probably delighted with her result of only losing 2 councils and 33 councillors and Corbyn is gutted to have gained no more councils and only 77 more councillors despite the work put in busing momentum into the key targeted areas. Lib Dems have been the real winners from where they started, 75 new councillors and 4 new councils. Greens did Ok as well with 8 new councillors.
This was local elections after 8 years of tory rule (or 3 of just tory no coalition) which normally with any ruling party means they get a kicking, if you add into that the recent horror stories against the tories Labour should have done 10 times better even with their own recent issue.
If this trend continues we're in for an uncomfortable period if Corbyn cannot make his brand of politics work well enough to get into power as the Labour Party by then will have already changed and the far left will already have a strangle hold on the party.
The message is Tory austerity dominance does not need to continue to crush the population.
We’ve been left with two individuals and ideologies you loathe, depending on what side of the fence you sit, where you vote to keep the other one out (in my opinion)
Someone like me will always choose Labour because I hate the Tories, whereas plenty of people will do whatever they can to keep Labour out. The two parties seem to be going further apart in ideologies because they think they have to appeal to the two extremes. There are swathes of people that would benefit from a party in between, now more than ever4 -
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
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If you think the nation's severe problems can be sorted by some centrist government maintaining the status quo, you are deluded. The tax little, spend little ethos needs to be challenged. We need quality jobs not zero hours contracts that allows Tories to claim employment has never been better. I have been out of work for 6 months but despite paying NIC for 46 years, I have to prove I am spending 30+ hours looking for work to get JSA. I choose not to, so am not officially unemployed.kentaddick said:
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
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Pretty sure that's a whoosh for you there SHG, as it appears from the Trump thread that @hoof_it_up_to_benty's op to have their tongue surgically detached from their cheek was seriously delayed by the NHS winter pressures.ShootersHillGuru said:
Christ on a bike I hope that’s a joke.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:I'm hoping that Rees-Mogg and Bojo team up to push the Brexit agenda - May can't be trusted and needs to be ousted. Michael Gove needs to be given a key role.
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Honest question. Who?kentaddick said:
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
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Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.Cordoban Addick said:
Honest question. Who?kentaddick said:
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
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Fundamentally, and sadly, (IMHO), the Lib Dems were the victims of their own decisions.cabbles said:
This just my personal opinion but I think the Lib Dems got a tad shafted by the electorate in 2015. I get all the feeling of being betrayed when they got involved in the coalition and clegg with tuition fees, but how their voters deserted them really baffled me. They have some decent politicians in Cable and the Millwall one who was MP in Bermondsey (I think). Their demise on a national level really set our political maturity as a country back quite a bit for me.seth plum said:
Maybe if people are pissed off with the Tories, but don't like Corbyn they will vote Liberal. Liberal get more seats and collaborate with the Labour party.Rob7Lee said:I don't think on either side there will be mass defections to start up a new party, we can but hope.
I suspect May is probably delighted with her result of only losing 2 councils and 33 councillors and Corbyn is gutted to have gained no more councils and only 77 more councillors despite the work put in busing momentum into the key targeted areas. Lib Dems have been the real winners from where they started, 75 new councillors and 4 new councils. Greens did Ok as well with 8 new councillors.
This was local elections after 8 years of tory rule (or 3 of just tory no coalition) which normally with any ruling party means they get a kicking, if you add into that the recent horror stories against the tories Labour should have done 10 times better even with their own recent issue.
If this trend continues we're in for an uncomfortable period if Corbyn cannot make his brand of politics work well enough to get into power as the Labour Party by then will have already changed and the far left will already have a strangle hold on the party.
The message is Tory austerity dominance does not need to continue to crush the population.
We’ve been left with two individuals and ideologies you loathe, depending on what side of the fence you sit, where you vote to keep the other one out (in my opinion)
In 2010 (and some of us might have argued this even without the benefit of hindsight), Nick Clegg had two coalition offers open to him (and he could have decided upon confidence and supply if he had wished): 1) in bed with the Tories, with the vague promise of a vote on introducing AV (which Clegg fooled himself into believing would mean Tory support in the campaign), or 2) keeping Gordon Brown (and Alistair Darling) in power, with a promise that PR would be introduced.
The key to a junior party being successful in a coalition is maximising its leverage. The deal on offer to the Lib Dems from Gordon Brown was better than that from David Cameron, whilst everyone would have benefited from avoiding George Osborne's "stewardship" of the Treasury.
Clegg needed to learn from history, and take on board how it was that the Irish Parliamentary Party under Parnell & co. had prospered in various deals with both Conservatives and Liberals, playing one off against the other.
Instead, he did what he believed to be the honourable thing and trusted the Tories...
On one level I'm not really sure that that level of political naivety really deserved anything other than being shafted by the electorate.5 -
This is an interesting point and is backed up by the Labour manifesto at the last election. People may forget, but there was a guarantee that nobody earning under £70k would be worse off. It is at odds with the image of Labour that the press wants you to believe. People foam at the mouth with what they perceive to be a cult of Corbyn, but they are the ones being manipulated and it is laughable they can't see it.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Look at the election were Milliband stood - he was advocating austerity, just less than the Tories, but he was labelled Red Ed. His dad was called a traitor etc.... It is what they do. What was interesting was that the Tories then adopted most of Millibands policies because their ones were too extreme and Cameron knew it!4 -
Name and shame them please.kentaddick said:
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
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read my previous comment at 8:51amGreenie said:
Name and shame them please.kentaddick said:
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
In other news, the tories have suffered a major defeat re brexit last night, but not a peep from the bbc or major news outlets.1 -
There will be some extreme lefties in the Labour party as there are extreme righties in the Conservative party. Memberships start at one point and end at another - to a point where you move to the right of the Labour party, you overlap the left of the Conservative party!0
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lol nopeMuttleyCAFC said:There will be some extreme lefties in the Labour party as there are extreme righties in the Conservative party. Memberships start at one point and end at another - to a point where you move to the right of the Labour party, you overlap the left of the Conservative party!
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Here you go @kentaddick this is what Corbyn said, and typically the media will not let him explain fully because they want a tabloid scoop, an then it gets believed......kentaddick said:
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.Cordoban Addick said:
Honest question. Who?kentaddick said:
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153074175846939/0 -
"Met Hamas and Hezbollah, great people, the best people, i met them, CANIFINISH i met them to discuss issues, WILLYOULETMEFINISH"Greenie said:
Here you go @kentaddick this is what Corbyn said, and typically the media will not let him explain fully because they want a tabloid scoop, an then it gets believed......kentaddick said:
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.Cordoban Addick said:
Honest question. Who?kentaddick said:
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153074175846939/
this and his unwillingness to follow any kind of action re anti semitism in the labour party are giant red flags, and are to undecided voters like myself.0 -
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A couple of minor things, not that I am speaking from any position of knowledge, you understand, but I'm not really that certain that Hamas or Hezbollah would "literally" kill their own children (for all that, as their members, as far as I am aware, belong to one of the Abrahamic faiths, there is an example from which they could draw). I'm in no way a supporter of either group, but, even in Hamas and Hezbollah, I would not assume a fixed, single interpretation of their beliefs - in fact, quite a few of their members would, "literally", encourage their children to vote for them, as a means to their ends, as, indeed, Hezbollah did, last weekend in the Lebanese elections.kentaddick said:
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.Cordoban Addick said:
Honest question. Who?kentaddick said:
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
And, in passing, there was hardly a senior UK politician (cabinet/shadow cabinet level) in the 1970s to 1990s who did not have some form of contact with the IRA, without which there would not have been a peace process. I don't know the level of Jeremy Corbyn's association with such people, but it is probably far less than that of many of the UK's "good friends" in US politics, who seemed quite content to support fund-raising on behalf of the IRA (gun-running too, provided that they were not likely to be arrested or anything).
I'm no fan of Jeremy Corbyn, but I do recognise that he is a conviction politician, I don't share his convictions, but he has been consistent in his views.
I don't think he'll be PM, precisely because he engenders strong feelings, both for and against.6 -
We won't agree on this but IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah are all organisations that any government/politician have had to talk to and deal with as they would with Saudi Arabia and Iran today. Whether that is for peace or trade or negotiations at some point you have to sit around a table with these people. Whether or not you or I think that some or all of those people should be talked to is another matter.kentaddick said:
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.Cordoban Addick said:
Honest question. Who?kentaddick said:
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
His own supporters on social media? Not sure you are serious about that. Are they about to take over or influence policy, I don't think so. Do other politicians have fringes who support on social media? Yes they do but the politician is not responsible for what an individual writes/says.
McDonnell is a Marxist, in common with a lot of economists. That is an economic theory it is not communism but he is a lefty.
McCluskey - another left winger and a person who any Labour leader would need to listen to, the union he heads gives money to the Labour party. How do other parties get their money and who do they have to listen to as a result? I wonder if it is as transparent as the aims of a multi member trade union (that may or may not be democratic!).
Abbott - She is just not very good. Not sure if she is extreme or not.
I don't think Abbott or McDonnell would survive a change of leadership. I am hoping that Abbott goes a lot quicker.
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But he didn't say that did he, you did watch the clip.....oh I see you're one of them......kentaddick said:
"Met Hamas and Hezbollah, great people, the best people, i met them, CANIFINISH i met them to discuss issues, WILLYOULETMEFINISH"Greenie said:
Here you go @kentaddick this is what Corbyn said, and typically the media will not let him explain fully because they want a tabloid scoop, an then it gets believed......kentaddick said:
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.Cordoban Addick said:
Honest question. Who?kentaddick said:
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153074175846939/
this and his unwillingness to follow any kind of action re anti semitism in the labour party are giant red flags, and are to undecided voters like myself.1 -
i think its more the fact corbyn is incredibly reluctant to criticise those that spout hatred on social media. The anti semitism scandal was corbyn in a nutshell, he gets criticised, he then meets pretty much the only jewish group that strongly support him and then shrugs his shoulders and says "What? Am i meeting the wrong kind of jews now CHECKMATE MAINSTREAM MEDIA". He then goes and finally has a meeting with one of the largest jewish groups in the country and refuses all of their recommendations to fight anti semitism because it might impact his mates. It's like tory policy of helping and selling off shit to their mates but reversed. Two wrongs a right it does not make.Cordoban Addick said:
We won't agree on this but IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah are all organisations that any government/politician have had to talk to and deal with as they would with Saudi Arabia and Iran today. Whether that is for peace or trade or negotiations at some point you have to sit around a table with these people. Whether or not you or I think that some or all of those people should be talked to is another matter.kentaddick said:
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.Cordoban Addick said:
Honest question. Who?kentaddick said:
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
His own supporters on social media? Not sure you are serious about that. Are they about to take over or influence policy, I don't think so. Do other politicians have fringes who support on social media? Yes they do but the politician is not responsible for what an individual writes/says.
McDonnell is a Marxist, in common with a lot of economists. That is an economic theory it is not communism but he is a lefty.
McCluskey - another left winger and a person who any Labour leader would need to listen to, the union he heads gives money to the Labour party. How do other parties get their money and who do they have to listen to as a result? I wonder if it is as transparent as the aims of a multi member trade union (that may or may not be democratic!).
Abbott - She is just not very good. Not sure if she is extreme or not.
I don't think Abbott or McDonnell would survive a change of leadership. I am hoping that Abbott goes a lot quicker.
But seriously, who would be the left's candidate to replace corbyn?0 -
So you have never heard of the Tory Reform Group?kentaddick said:
lol nopeMuttleyCAFC said:There will be some extreme lefties in the Labour party as there are extreme righties in the Conservative party. Memberships start at one point and end at another - to a point where you move to the right of the Labour party, you overlap the left of the Conservative party!
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WILL YOU LET ME FINISH YOU'RE NOT LETTING ME FINISHGreenie said:
But he didn't say that did he, you did watch the clip.....oh I see you're one of them......kentaddick said:
"Met Hamas and Hezbollah, great people, the best people, i met them, CANIFINISH i met them to discuss issues, WILLYOULETMEFINISH"Greenie said:
Here you go @kentaddick this is what Corbyn said, and typically the media will not let him explain fully because they want a tabloid scoop, an then it gets believed......kentaddick said:
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.Cordoban Addick said:
Honest question. Who?kentaddick said:
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153074175846939/
this and his unwillingness to follow any kind of action re anti semitism in the labour party are giant red flags, and are to undecided voters like myself.0 -
one nation conservatism =/= left wing or even liberal.MuttleyCAFC said:
So you have never heard of the Tory Reform Group?kentaddick said:
lol nopeMuttleyCAFC said:There will be some extreme lefties in the Labour party as there are extreme righties in the Conservative party. Memberships start at one point and end at another - to a point where you move to the right of the Labour party, you overlap the left of the Conservative party!
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Yep I was right.kentaddick said:
WILL YOU LET ME FINISH YOU'RE NOT LETTING ME FINISHGreenie said:
But he didn't say that did he, you did watch the clip.....oh I see you're one of them......kentaddick said:
"Met Hamas and Hezbollah, great people, the best people, i met them, CANIFINISH i met them to discuss issues, WILLYOULETMEFINISH"Greenie said:
Here you go @kentaddick this is what Corbyn said, and typically the media will not let him explain fully because they want a tabloid scoop, an then it gets believed......kentaddick said:
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.Cordoban Addick said:
Honest question. Who?kentaddick said:
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153074175846939/
this and his unwillingness to follow any kind of action re anti semitism in the labour party are giant red flags, and are to undecided voters like myself.1 -
You could pick up Mandelson and Blair and a number of others less well known from the Labour party and drop them right in there and they would not be out of place so my point stands!kentaddick said:
one nation conservatism =/= left wing or even liberal.MuttleyCAFC said:
So you have never heard of the Tory Reform Group?kentaddick said:
lol nopeMuttleyCAFC said:There will be some extreme lefties in the Labour party as there are extreme righties in the Conservative party. Memberships start at one point and end at another - to a point where you move to the right of the Labour party, you overlap the left of the Conservative party!
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Shifted window of acceptability?Leuth said:And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Are you saying that they just haven't moved with the electorate?
Stuck in the 1970's? 1990's?
Very damning view of the party.
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