And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.
Honest question. Who?
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
Here you go @kentaddick this is what Corbyn said, and typically the media will not let him explain fully because they want a tabloid scoop, an then it gets believed......
"Met Hamas and Hezbollah, great people, the best people, i met them, CANIFINISH i met them to discuss issues, WILLYOULETMEFINISH"
this and his unwillingness to follow any kind of action re anti semitism in the labour party are giant red flags, and are to undecided voters like myself.
But he didn't say that did he, you did watch the clip.....oh I see you're one of them......
WILL YOU LET ME FINISH YOU'RE NOT LETTING ME FINISH
Yep I was right.
CANIFINISH.
some one criticises corbyn > provide questionable tv appearance where corbyn looks flustered at any kind of criticism > smugly think you're better than anyone> corbyn is amazing because you're better than anyone and you like corbyn > repeat.
And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.
Honest question. Who?
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
We won't agree on this but IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah are all organisations that any government/politician have had to talk to and deal with as they would with Saudi Arabia and Iran today. Whether that is for peace or trade or negotiations at some point you have to sit around a table with these people. Whether or not you or I think that some or all of those people should be talked to is another matter.
His own supporters on social media? Not sure you are serious about that. Are they about to take over or influence policy, I don't think so. Do other politicians have fringes who support on social media? Yes they do but the politician is not responsible for what an individual writes/says.
McDonnell is a Marxist, in common with a lot of economists. That is an economic theory it is not communism but he is a lefty.
McCluskey - another left winger and a person who any Labour leader would need to listen to, the union he heads gives money to the Labour party. How do other parties get their money and who do they have to listen to as a result? I wonder if it is as transparent as the aims of a multi member trade union (that may or may not be democratic!).
Abbott - She is just not very good. Not sure if she is extreme or not.
I don't think Abbott or McDonnell would survive a change of leadership. I am hoping that Abbott goes a lot quicker.
i think its more the fact corbyn is incredibly reluctant to criticise those that spout hatred on social media. The anti semitism scandal was corbyn in a nutshell, he gets criticised, he then meets pretty much the only jewish group that strongly support him and then shrugs his shoulders and says "What? Am i meeting the wrong kind of jews now CHECKMATE MAINSTREAM MEDIA". He then goes and finally has a meeting with one of the largest jewish groups in the country and refuses all of their recommendations to fight anti semitism because it might impact his mates. It's like tory policy of helping and selling off shit to their mates but reversed. Two wrongs a right it does not make.
But seriously, who would be the left's candidate to replace corbyn?
I think we went through all that on the other thread that got closed down.
But here we are again talking about Labour when we have a Tory party clueless over Brexit, deporting and detaining British citizens and our public services in crisis.
And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.
Honest question. Who?
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
Here you go @kentaddick this is what Corbyn said, and typically the media will not let him explain fully because they want a tabloid scoop, an then it gets believed......
"Met Hamas and Hezbollah, great people, the best people, i met them, CANIFINISH i met them to discuss issues, WILLYOULETMEFINISH"
this and his unwillingness to follow any kind of action re anti semitism in the labour party are giant red flags, and are to undecided voters like myself.
But he didn't say that did he, you did watch the clip.....oh I see you're one of them......
WILL YOU LET ME FINISH YOU'RE NOT LETTING ME FINISH
Yep I was right.
CANIFINISH.
some one criticises corbyn > provide questionable tv appearance where corbyn looks flustered at any kind of criticism > smugly think you're better than anyone> corbyn is amazing because you're better than anyone and you like corbyn > repeat.
The corbynista's guide to debate.
Sorry mate I really cant take you seriously, youre coming across as a child.
And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.
Honest question. Who?
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
Here you go @kentaddick this is what Corbyn said, and typically the media will not let him explain fully because they want a tabloid scoop, an then it gets believed......
"Met Hamas and Hezbollah, great people, the best people, i met them, CANIFINISH i met them to discuss issues, WILLYOULETMEFINISH"
this and his unwillingness to follow any kind of action re anti semitism in the labour party are giant red flags, and are to undecided voters like myself.
But he didn't say that did he, you did watch the clip.....oh I see you're one of them......
WILL YOU LET ME FINISH YOU'RE NOT LETTING ME FINISH
Yep I was right.
CANIFINISH.
some one criticises corbyn > provide questionable tv appearance where corbyn looks flustered at any kind of criticism > smugly think you're better than anyone> corbyn is amazing because you're better than anyone and you like corbyn > repeat.
The corbynista's guide to debate.
Sorry mate I really cant take you seriously, youre coming across as a child.
"yep i was right" is straight out of primary school playground bullying, "mate".
And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.
Honest question. Who?
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
We won't agree on this but IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah are all organisations that any government/politician have had to talk to and deal with as they would with Saudi Arabia and Iran today. Whether that is for peace or trade or negotiations at some point you have to sit around a table with these people. Whether or not you or I think that some or all of those people should be talked to is another matter.
His own supporters on social media? Not sure you are serious about that. Are they about to take over or influence policy, I don't think so. Do other politicians have fringes who support on social media? Yes they do but the politician is not responsible for what an individual writes/says.
McDonnell is a Marxist, in common with a lot of economists. That is an economic theory it is not communism but he is a lefty.
McCluskey - another left winger and a person who any Labour leader would need to listen to, the union he heads gives money to the Labour party. How do other parties get their money and who do they have to listen to as a result? I wonder if it is as transparent as the aims of a multi member trade union (that may or may not be democratic!).
Abbott - She is just not very good. Not sure if she is extreme or not.
I don't think Abbott or McDonnell would survive a change of leadership. I am hoping that Abbott goes a lot quicker.
i think its more the fact corbyn is incredibly reluctant to criticise those that spout hatred on social media. The anti semitism scandal was corbyn in a nutshell, he gets criticised, he then meets pretty much the only jewish group that strongly support him and then shrugs his shoulders and says "What? Am i meeting the wrong kind of jews now CHECKMATE MAINSTREAM MEDIA". He then goes and finally has a meeting with one of the largest jewish groups in the country and refuses all of their recommendations to fight anti semitism because it might impact his mates. It's like tory policy of helping and selling off shit to their mates but reversed. Two wrongs a right it does not make.
But seriously, who would be the left's candidate to replace corbyn?
I think we went through all that on the other thread that got closed down.
But here we are again talking about Labour when we have a Tory party clueless over Brexit, deporting and detaining British citizens and our public services in crisis.
I think it was Leuth saying corbyn was all roses and rainbows and i gave evidence to the contrary and everyone jumped down my throat, but yeah, lets get to the real issue today (which i saw you actually liked, good show) which is the tories have been defeated re brexit again in the lords last night. We're leaving in less than a year, what a fucking shit show.
And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.
Honest question. Who?
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
We won't agree on this but IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah are all organisations that any government/politician have had to talk to and deal with as they would with Saudi Arabia and Iran today. Whether that is for peace or trade or negotiations at some point you have to sit around a table with these people. Whether or not you or I think that some or all of those people should be talked to is another matter.
His own supporters on social media? Not sure you are serious about that. Are they about to take over or influence policy, I don't think so. Do other politicians have fringes who support on social media? Yes they do but the politician is not responsible for what an individual writes/says.
McDonnell is a Marxist, in common with a lot of economists. That is an economic theory it is not communism but he is a lefty.
McCluskey - another left winger and a person who any Labour leader would need to listen to, the union he heads gives money to the Labour party. How do other parties get their money and who do they have to listen to as a result? I wonder if it is as transparent as the aims of a multi member trade union (that may or may not be democratic!).
Abbott - She is just not very good. Not sure if she is extreme or not.
I don't think Abbott or McDonnell would survive a change of leadership. I am hoping that Abbott goes a lot quicker.
i think its more the fact corbyn is incredibly reluctant to criticise those that spout hatred on social media. The anti semitism scandal was corbyn in a nutshell, he gets criticised, he then meets pretty much the only jewish group that strongly support him and then shrugs his shoulders and says "What? Am i meeting the wrong kind of jews now CHECKMATE MAINSTREAM MEDIA". He then goes and finally has a meeting with one of the largest jewish groups in the country and refuses all of their recommendations to fight anti semitism because it might impact his mates. It's like tory policy of helping and selling off shit to their mates but reversed. Two wrongs a right it does not make.
But seriously, who would be the left's candidate to replace corbyn?
I think we went through all that on the other thread that got closed down.
But here we are again talking about Labour when we have a Tory party clueless over Brexit, deporting and detaining British citizens and our public services in crisis.
I think it was Leuth saying corbyn was all roses and rainbows and i gave evidence to the contrary and everyone jumped down my throat, but yeah, lets get to the real issue today (which i saw you actually liked, good show) which is the tories have been defeated re brexit again in the lords last night. We're leaving in less than a year, what a fucking shit show.
Ahh bless you, you feel bullied, so what, who cares?
And I would argue that Labour aren't extreme at all, but a very typical social democrat party who are victims of a shifted window of acceptability.
Lol. Some of corbyn’s very close allies are extreme. It’s not him who I’m worried about, it’s the nutters he spends time with.
Honest question. Who?
Mcdonnell, Abbott, Mccluskey, corbyn's own "supporters"/fanatics on social media, before then his willingness to share a stage with "friends" such has Hamas and Hezbollah (people who would kill their own children -literally- if it was a means to an end), before even then hanging out with known IRA members as "part of the peace process", when it was obvious he was just trying to look cool in front of his militant mates, his ex militant mates.
Who would be the acceptable face of the left if corbyn decided tomorrow enough was enough and he was retiring?
We won't agree on this but IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah are all organisations that any government/politician have had to talk to and deal with as they would with Saudi Arabia and Iran today. Whether that is for peace or trade or negotiations at some point you have to sit around a table with these people. Whether or not you or I think that some or all of those people should be talked to is another matter.
His own supporters on social media? Not sure you are serious about that. Are they about to take over or influence policy, I don't think so. Do other politicians have fringes who support on social media? Yes they do but the politician is not responsible for what an individual writes/says.
McDonnell is a Marxist, in common with a lot of economists. That is an economic theory it is not communism but he is a lefty.
McCluskey - another left winger and a person who any Labour leader would need to listen to, the union he heads gives money to the Labour party. How do other parties get their money and who do they have to listen to as a result? I wonder if it is as transparent as the aims of a multi member trade union (that may or may not be democratic!).
Abbott - She is just not very good. Not sure if she is extreme or not.
I don't think Abbott or McDonnell would survive a change of leadership. I am hoping that Abbott goes a lot quicker.
i think its more the fact corbyn is incredibly reluctant to criticise those that spout hatred on social media. The anti semitism scandal was corbyn in a nutshell, he gets criticised, he then meets pretty much the only jewish group that strongly support him and then shrugs his shoulders and says "What? Am i meeting the wrong kind of jews now CHECKMATE MAINSTREAM MEDIA". He then goes and finally has a meeting with one of the largest jewish groups in the country and refuses all of their recommendations to fight anti semitism because it might impact his mates. It's like tory policy of helping and selling off shit to their mates but reversed. Two wrongs a right it does not make.
But seriously, who would be the left's candidate to replace corbyn?
I think we went through all that on the other thread that got closed down.
But here we are again talking about Labour when we have a Tory party clueless over Brexit, deporting and detaining British citizens and our public services in crisis.
I think it was Leuth saying corbyn was all roses and rainbows and i gave evidence to the contrary and everyone jumped down my throat, but yeah, lets get to the real issue today (which i saw you actually liked, good show) which is the tories have been defeated re brexit again in the lords last night. We're leaving in less than a year, what a fucking shit show.
Ahh bless you, you feel bullied, so what, who cares?
Corbyn ISN'T all roses and I have some doubts about him as a politician. He' s a stand-up person and a fine representative of his constituency, and I think his principles are both genuine and good, but he seems to find it difficult to a) take a firm line or b) win over doubters. We shouldn't need him to offer us hope, but the flashier, more 'intellectual' types preceding and opposing him have fucked up the country so royally that...well, here he is.
Corbyn ISN'T all roses and I have some doubts about him as a politician. He' s a stand-up person and a fine representative of his constituency, and I think his principles are both genuine and good, but he seems to find it difficult to a) take a firm line or b) win over doubters. We shouldn't need him to offer us hope, but the flashier, more 'intellectual' types preceding and opposing him have fucked up the country so royally that...well, here he is.
brexit is and will do far more damage than any "intellectuals" and corbyn is a long time supporter.
In comparison to the present Tories the present Labour lot are warm and cuddly pink and fluffy. One key difference anyway is that the Tories are actually in charge presently and at liberty to implement their hostile policies, Labour are not. Above somebody mentions 'red flags'. How about not rehousing Grenfell victims, austerity, Windrush, the destruction of public services, the Tory attitude to Saudi Arabia, or to plebs and picanninies, Tory financial bias towards the rich and private providers? If talking to the IRA or Hamas years ago when out of power in a search for rapprochement is a red flag, then the present Tory party and policies is not so much a red flag as an entire Christo installation.
Corbyn ISN'T all roses and I have some doubts about him as a politician. He' s a stand-up person and a fine representative of his constituency, and I think his principles are both genuine and good, but he seems to find it difficult to a) take a firm line or b) win over doubters. We shouldn't need him to offer us hope, but the flashier, more 'intellectual' types preceding and opposing him have fucked up the country so royally that...well, here he is.
brexit is and will do far more damage than any "intellectuals" and corbyn is a long time supporter.
I do think that this is the biggest knot that needs untangling. Labour's economic project is difficult enough as it is
In comparison to the present Tories the present Labour lot are warm and cuddly pink and fluffy. One key difference anyway is that the Tories are actually in charge presently and at liberty to implement their hostile policies, Labour are not. Above somebody mentions 'red flags'. How about not rehousing Grenfell victims, austerity, Windrush, the destruction of public services, the Tory attitude to Saudi Arabia, or to plebs and picanninies, Tory financial bias towards the rich and private providers? If talking to the IRA or Hamas years ago when out of power in a search for rapprochement is a red flag, then the present Tory party and policies is not so much a red flag as an entire Christo installation.
The present tories are the hangover of the nasty party. All of the nastiness, none of the competence
Corbyn ISN'T all roses and I have some doubts about him as a politician. He' s a stand-up person and a fine representative of his constituency, and I think his principles are both genuine and good, but he seems to find it difficult to a) take a firm line or b) win over doubters. We shouldn't need him to offer us hope, but the flashier, more 'intellectual' types preceding and opposing him have fucked up the country so royally that...well, here he is.
brexit is and will do far more damage than any "intellectuals" and corbyn is a long time supporter.
I do think that this is the biggest knot that needs untangling. Labour's economic project is difficult enough as it is
The problem is that many Labour voters (mostly in traditional heartlands of the north of England support Brexit) Labour is caught in the middle a bit - as are the Tories. Whilst I am a Labour supporter the best outcome for the country would be an election before Brexit happens and Labour becoming a minority government. This will give the Libs and SNP clout to try to get another referendum I hope. The second best option would be the soft Brexit Labour supports, although they would probably need to negotiate an extension to negotiate the Brexit. The worst option has to be the hard Brexit we seem to be heading for and what the UKIP clone Tories want. The sensible Tories are not going to accept this lightly.
Corbyn ISN'T all roses and I have some doubts about him as a politician. He' s a stand-up person and a fine representative of his constituency, and I think his principles are both genuine and good, but he seems to find it difficult to a) take a firm line or b) win over doubters. We shouldn't need him to offer us hope, but the flashier, more 'intellectual' types preceding and opposing him have fucked up the country so royally that...well, here he is.
brexit is and will do far more damage than any "intellectuals" and corbyn is a long time supporter.
I do think that this is the biggest knot that needs untangling. Labour's economic project is difficult enough as it is
The problem is that many Labour voters (mostly in traditional heartlands of the north of England support Brexit) Labour is caught in the middle a bit - as are the Tories. Whilst I am a Labour supporter the best outcome for the country would be an election before Brexit happens and Labour becoming a minority government. This will give the Libs and SNP clout to try to get another referendum I hope. The second best option would be the soft Brexit Labour supports, although they would probably need to negotiate an extension to negotiate the Brexit. The worst option has to be the hard Brexit we seem to be heading for and what the UKIP clone Tories want. The sensible Tories are not going to accept this lightly.
Why would we want another referendum, the people have already spoken.
Yes, but nobody knows what they said - For instance- polls suggest a clear majority support a soft Brexit but there was no option in the initial referendum and we look likely to be stuck with a hard one. Because the outcome was confidently expected to be different and no thought was given to the consequences of a simple yes or no vote. If that clarification is sought, by asking the people again, I don't see how what they say - whatever it is could be seen as undemocratic and surely it would clarify for both sides!
Corbyn ISN'T all roses and I have some doubts about him as a politician. He' s a stand-up person and a fine representative of his constituency, and I think his principles are both genuine and good, but he seems to find it difficult to a) take a firm line or b) win over doubters. We shouldn't need him to offer us hope, but the flashier, more 'intellectual' types preceding and opposing him have fucked up the country so royally that...well, here he is.
brexit is and will do far more damage than any "intellectuals" and corbyn is a long time supporter.
I do think that this is the biggest knot that needs untangling. Labour's economic project is difficult enough as it is
The problem is that many Labour voters (mostly in traditional heartlands of the north of England support Brexit) Labour is caught in the middle a bit - as are the Tories. Whilst I am a Labour supporter the best outcome for the country would be an election before Brexit happens and Labour becoming a minority government. This will give the Libs and SNP clout to try to get another referendum I hope. The second best option would be the soft Brexit Labour supports, although they would probably need to negotiate an extension to negotiate the Brexit. The worst option has to be the hard Brexit we seem to be heading for and what the UKIP clone Tories want. The sensible Tories are not going to accept this lightly.
Labour brexit policy stinks. Their policy ought to be 'there you go, have a blue passport, brexit is delivered', then to remain in every other aspect of the EU and get on with what matters, fixing this country.
At PMQ's Corbyn has challenged May on Tory brexit policy and she had absolutely nothing to offer. Tellingly he said the Tories had had 23 months to get sorted and pointed out they have come up with nothing. Theresa May was only able to say she wants the best deal and that is what she will get. Seems to me she should make a start then.
At PMQ's Corbyn has challenged May on Tory brexit policy and she had absolutely nothing to offer. Tellingly he said the Tories had had 23 months to get sorted and pointed out they have come up with nothing. Theresa May was only able to say she wants the best deal and that is what she will get. Seems to me she should make a start then.
But Seth that is so unfair, she is working jolly hard at this you know. If she says that she is going to get the best deal for Britain then I for one believe her.
Besides I am sure that in her stylish collection of shoes she has some ruby slippers that she can bang the heels together three times.
Brexit is going to be a car crash, just a matter of is it going to be just a minor knock or a full on economical write off.
I'm not so sure any government would be making a wonderful deal of it all, but we'll never know unless theres a further general election prior but that looks less and less likely now. I suspect Brexit is more likely to be the catalyst for a change of government than anything else the tories and/or labour do.
If somehow brexit goes well then that will do the Tories a massive favour and probably see of Corbyn, if not it'll help Labour and if he's still around make Corbyn a more likely candidate to win the next election.
All that said, are the under 25's looking forward to their 10k bonus and the pensioners paying NI again?
Brexit is going to be a car crash, just a matter of is it going to be just a minor knock or a full on economical write off.
I'm not so sure any government would be making a wonderful deal of it all, but we'll never know unless theres a further general election prior but that looks less and less likely now. I suspect Brexit is more likely to be the catalyst for a change of government than anything else the tories and/or labour do.
If somehow brexit goes well then that will do the Tories a massive favour and probably see of Corbyn, if not it'll help Labour and if he's still around make Corbyn a more likely candidate to win the next election.
All that said, are the under 25's looking forward to their 10k bonus and the pensioners paying NI again?
Pensioners paying NI you say. Well for the Tories that would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. As for Labour, well haven't Messrs Corbyn and McDonnell promised we won't be worse off unless we rake in more than 70k?
It always makes me smile how much online vitriol the Tories get, yet every election time, the silent majority vote for them, and the silly old lefties get themselves in a tizzy.
This country is Conservative, and the longer people live, the more Conservative it will get. Nobody wants socialist policies.
It always makes me smile how much online vitriol the Tories get, yet every election time, the silent majority vote for them, and the silly old lefties get themselves in a tizzy.
This country is Conservative, and the longer people live, the more Conservative it will get. Nobody wants socialist policies.
Brexit is going to be a car crash, just a matter of is it going to be just a minor knock or a full on economical write off.
I'm not so sure any government would be making a wonderful deal of it all, but we'll never know unless theres a further general election prior but that looks less and less likely now. I suspect Brexit is more likely to be the catalyst for a change of government than anything else the tories and/or labour do.
If somehow brexit goes well then that will do the Tories a massive favour and probably see of Corbyn, if not it'll help Labour and if he's still around make Corbyn a more likely candidate to win the next election.
All that said, are the under 25's looking forward to their 10k bonus and the pensioners paying NI again?
Pensioners paying NI you say. Well for the Tories that would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. As for Labour, well haven't Messrs Corbyn and McDonnell promised we won't be worse off unless we rake in more than 70k?
Think it was under 80k they pledged that under a Labour government there would be no increase in the standard rate of VAT, income tax or personal national insurance contributions for the duration of the next parliament.
It's just a suggestion by the Resolution Foundation; 1. Give £10,000 to all young adults at the age of 25, funded by a new "lifetime receipts tax" that would replace inheritance tax
2. Scrap council tax and replace it with a new property tax targeting wealthier homeowners
3. Use the proceeds from property tax reform to halve stamp duty for first-time buyers and increase public funding for social care
4. Make earnings of those above state pension age subject to National Insurance contributions
I don't believe for one minute either party would introduce it.
Brexit is going to be a car crash, just a matter of is it going to be just a minor knock or a full on economical write off.
I'm not so sure any government would be making a wonderful deal of it all, but we'll never know unless theres a further general election prior but that looks less and less likely now. I suspect Brexit is more likely to be the catalyst for a change of government than anything else the tories and/or labour do.
If somehow brexit goes well then that will do the Tories a massive favour and probably see of Corbyn, if not it'll help Labour and if he's still around make Corbyn a more likely candidate to win the next election.
All that said, are the under 25's looking forward to their 10k bonus and the pensioners paying NI again?
Pensioners paying NI you say. Well for the Tories that would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. As for Labour, well haven't Messrs Corbyn and McDonnell promised we won't be worse off unless we rake in more than 70k?
Think it was under 80k they pledged that under a Labour government there would be no increase in the standard rate of VAT, income tax or personal national insurance contributions for the duration of the next parliament.
It's just a suggestion by the Resolution Foundation; 1. Give £10,000 to all young adults at the age of 25, funded by a new "lifetime receipts tax" that would replace inheritance tax
2. Scrap council tax and replace it with a new property tax targeting wealthier homeowners
3. Use the proceeds from property tax reform to halve stamp duty for first-time buyers and increase public funding for social care
4. Make earnings of those above state pension age subject to National Insurance contributions
I don't believe for one minute either party would introduce it.
David Willets, as part of the resolution foundation, is a pretty smart guy. When he was in charge of universities, they actually liked him which is impressive as he must be an evil Tory, and they must be pinko commies who don't live in the real world. Seriously though, willets wrote a book about how baby boomers have stolen the future from millennials. Whether or not that's true, it's not surprising they came up with ideas like this.
They aren't awful ideas... At least they are trying to tackle significant problems such as the housing and care crises
I think this country is by nature a bit left of centre which shies away from extremes - so one nation Conservatism has been the Conservatism that has ruled the day along with one nation Socialism at intervals. There was a change though in the 80s and more and more people are gravitating to extremes today. Not just in this country but in the World. The point was made earlier that the policies of the Labour government are not quite as extreme left as the image of Corbyn we are presented with. Labour are a Keynesian influenced social democratic party.
After the war, where working class people died for this country, the population demanded change. And there was a mood to give it to them. There was a cycle where people were helped, and people got richer across the social scale. It happened in America too with Roosevelt. Sadly things stagnate. They always seem to do. Unions had power to protect their members and abused it at the expense of others. Distrust and confrontation ruled the day and Thatcher and Regan offered a new kind of system, where you work hard and get rewarded. But that system also removed a lot of the social aspects, and we got the phrases like 'there is no such thing as society'. People got richer from all classes and as Thatcher once said, 'sometimes it is better to have a little of a lot than a lot of a little'. The system did work for a while and was an antidote for the industrial strife and stagnation we experienced until inevitably it stagnated itself through the greed of the powerful.
There was a price to pay. Industries and the communities they supported were cut adrift and allowed to die. Everything was about the quick buck and we cared for people a little less, maybe a lot less. That cycle is reaching it's end and we are discovering whether the void will be filled with a new more extreme right or from a left that is only portrayed as it is from the perspective of a harder right.
We have challenges to things like racism and health and safety for instance. People are told that you don't have to be racist to want immigration controlled, so the racists (they may not feel they are racist) feel they have the chance to be open about their racism. When immigration statistically enriches the country, it can't be economic reasons why you oppose it! Then you have health and safety. It costs money and people are genuinely enraged in the health and safety gone mad aspects of society. But health and safety has a reason and when you ignore it. Tragedies occur!. People are worked up into a frenzy about these things to the point where those on the extreme react violently - both from left and right. Brexit was a manifestation of this!
You see it on here in relation to Corbyn. People are perfectly within their rights to think Corbyn would be a disaster for this country and they may be right, but surely the current government over the last few years have been a disaster that is hard to equal. But people actually hate him. He is not really like most other politicians but he is judged like them - he missed a trick here and he missed a trick there - when he doesn't work like that. To understand Corbyn, you have to understand that he is a decent, honest man that has held his beliefs consistently all of his political career. He is a pacifist, not a terrorist sympathiser. He is certainly not a racist. He cares about people. That people can hate him like they do shows they are being manipulated. I don't know if he would be a disaster or not, I look at the policies of Labour and I don't see them as being extreme - I see the rise of the right and feel we are going to go one way or the other and I just know what way I want us to go for the next cycle. Labour coming in and making things better would change the world and teh direction much of it is heading. The way things are going I don't see giving that a chance to be too great a risk!
Brexit is going to be a car crash, just a matter of is it going to be just a minor knock or a full on economical write off.
I'm not so sure any government would be making a wonderful deal of it all, but we'll never know unless theres a further general election prior but that looks less and less likely now. I suspect Brexit is more likely to be the catalyst for a change of government than anything else the tories and/or labour do.
If somehow brexit goes well then that will do the Tories a massive favour and probably see of Corbyn, if not it'll help Labour and if he's still around make Corbyn a more likely candidate to win the next election.
All that said, are the under 25's looking forward to their 10k bonus and the pensioners paying NI again?
Pensioners paying NI you say. Well for the Tories that would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. As for Labour, well haven't Messrs Corbyn and McDonnell promised we won't be worse off unless we rake in more than 70k?
Think it was under 80k they pledged that under a Labour government there would be no increase in the standard rate of VAT, income tax or personal national insurance contributions for the duration of the next parliament.
It's just a suggestion by the Resolution Foundation; 1. Give £10,000 to all young adults at the age of 25, funded by a new "lifetime receipts tax" that would replace inheritance tax
2. Scrap council tax and replace it with a new property tax targeting wealthier homeowners
3. Use the proceeds from property tax reform to halve stamp duty for first-time buyers and increase public funding for social care
4. Make earnings of those above state pension age subject to National Insurance contributions
I don't believe for one minute either party would introduce it.
David Willets, as part of the resolution foundation, is a pretty smart guy. When he was in charge of universities, they actually liked him which is impressive as he must be an evil Tory, and they must be pinko commies who don't live in the real world. Seriously though, willets wrote a book about how baby boomers have stolen the future from millennials. Whether or not that's true, it's not surprising they came up with ideas like this.
They aren't awful ideas... At least they are trying to tackle significant problems such as the housing and care crises
2. We already know, thanks to the bonkers LibDems' idea about a "Mansion (sic) Tax", that many people are asset rich/cash poor. How do these people pay the extra tax?
3. There would be no proceeds - just desperate people trying to sell property that nobody wants to fund their extra tax (NI) bill (see 4). And, in any event, how many first-time buyers pay much stamp duty? It doesn't exist on property sales under £300k and is on a reduced rate under £500k.
Willets has clearly lost (at least) one of his two brains.
Comments
some one criticises corbyn > provide questionable tv appearance where corbyn looks flustered at any kind of criticism > smugly think you're better than anyone> corbyn is amazing because you're better than anyone and you like corbyn > repeat.
The corbynista's guide to debate.
But here we are again talking about Labour when we have a Tory party clueless over Brexit, deporting and detaining British citizens and our public services in crisis.
"yep i was right" is straight out of primary school playground bullying, "mate". I think it was Leuth saying corbyn was all roses and rainbows and i gave evidence to the contrary and everyone jumped down my throat, but yeah, lets get to the real issue today (which i saw you actually liked, good show) which is the tories have been defeated re brexit again in the lords last night. We're leaving in less than a year, what a fucking shit show.
Ahh bless you, you feel bullied, so what, who cares?
you apparently? Very strange comment.
One key difference anyway is that the Tories are actually in charge presently and at liberty to implement their hostile policies, Labour are not.
Above somebody mentions 'red flags'. How about not rehousing Grenfell victims, austerity, Windrush, the destruction of public services, the Tory attitude to Saudi Arabia, or to plebs and picanninies, Tory financial bias towards the rich and private providers?
If talking to the IRA or Hamas years ago when out of power in a search for rapprochement is a red flag, then the present Tory party and policies is not so much a red flag as an entire Christo installation.
Their policy ought to be 'there you go, have a blue passport, brexit is delivered', then to remain in every other aspect of the EU and get on with what matters, fixing this country.
Tellingly he said the Tories had had 23 months to get sorted and pointed out they have come up with nothing. Theresa May was only able to say she wants the best deal and that is what she will get.
Seems to me she should make a start then.
Besides I am sure that in her stylish collection of shoes she has some ruby slippers that she can bang the heels together three times.
I'm not so sure any government would be making a wonderful deal of it all, but we'll never know unless theres a further general election prior but that looks less and less likely now. I suspect Brexit is more likely to be the catalyst for a change of government than anything else the tories and/or labour do.
If somehow brexit goes well then that will do the Tories a massive favour and probably see of Corbyn, if not it'll help Labour and if he's still around make Corbyn a more likely candidate to win the next election.
All that said, are the under 25's looking forward to their 10k bonus and the pensioners paying NI again?
This country is Conservative, and the longer people live, the more Conservative it will get. Nobody wants socialist policies.
heres the report; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44029808
It's just a suggestion by the Resolution Foundation;
1. Give £10,000 to all young adults at the age of 25, funded by a new "lifetime receipts tax" that would replace inheritance tax
2. Scrap council tax and replace it with a new property tax targeting wealthier homeowners
3. Use the proceeds from property tax reform to halve stamp duty for first-time buyers and increase public funding for social care
4. Make earnings of those above state pension age subject to National Insurance contributions
I don't believe for one minute either party would introduce it.
They aren't awful ideas... At least they are trying to tackle significant problems such as the housing and care crises
After the war, where working class people died for this country, the population demanded change. And there was a mood to give it to them. There was a cycle where people were helped, and people got richer across the social scale. It happened in America too with Roosevelt. Sadly things stagnate. They always seem to do. Unions had power to protect their members and abused it at the expense of others. Distrust and confrontation ruled the day and Thatcher and Regan offered a new kind of system, where you work hard and get rewarded. But that system also removed a lot of the social aspects, and we got the phrases like 'there is no such thing as society'. People got richer from all classes and as Thatcher once said, 'sometimes it is better to have a little of a lot than a lot of a little'. The system did work for a while and was an antidote for the industrial strife and stagnation we experienced until inevitably it stagnated itself through the greed of the powerful.
There was a price to pay. Industries and the communities they supported were cut adrift and allowed to die. Everything was about the quick buck and we cared for people a little less, maybe a lot less. That cycle is reaching it's end and we are discovering whether the void will be filled with a new more extreme right or from a left that is only portrayed as it is from the perspective of a harder right.
We have challenges to things like racism and health and safety for instance. People are told that you don't have to be racist to want immigration controlled, so the racists (they may not feel they are racist) feel they have the chance to be open about their racism. When immigration statistically enriches the country, it can't be economic reasons why you oppose it! Then you have health and safety. It costs money and people are genuinely enraged in the health and safety gone mad aspects of society. But health and safety has a reason and when you ignore it. Tragedies occur!. People are worked up into a frenzy about these things to the point where those on the extreme react violently - both from left and right. Brexit was a manifestation of this!
You see it on here in relation to Corbyn. People are perfectly within their rights to think Corbyn would be a disaster for this country and they may be right, but surely the current government over the last few years have been a disaster that is hard to equal. But people actually hate him. He is not really like most other politicians but he is judged like them - he missed a trick here and he missed a trick there - when he doesn't work like that. To understand Corbyn, you have to understand that he is a decent, honest man that has held his beliefs consistently all of his political career. He is a pacifist, not a terrorist sympathiser. He is certainly not a racist. He cares about people. That people can hate him like they do shows they are being manipulated. I don't know if he would be a disaster or not, I look at the policies of Labour and I don't see them as being extreme - I see the rise of the right and feel we are going to go one way or the other and I just know what way I want us to go for the next cycle. Labour coming in and making things better would change the world and teh direction much of it is heading. The way things are going I don't see giving that a chance to be too great a risk!
3. There would be no proceeds - just desperate people trying to sell property that nobody wants to fund their extra tax (NI) bill (see 4). And, in any event, how many first-time buyers pay much stamp duty? It doesn't exist on property sales under £300k and is on a reduced rate under £500k.
Willets has clearly lost (at least) one of his two brains.