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Latimer Road fire

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  • WSS said:

    I doubt families would want to remain homeless if somewhere outside of Kensington was offered.

    Depends if we're talking neighbouring boroughs or out of London.
  • WSS said:

    I doubt families would want to remain homeless if somewhere outside of Kensington was offered.

    Who knows? It's the moral duty of the borough to house these badly let down citizens. But here are a couple of things I think should drive the thought process of anyone involved.

    1. None of these people has done anything to deserve being removed from the area in which they live. Each family and each individual should be seen as someone to whom K&C gives their utmost priority. Nothing should be left undone in order to find them homes.

    2. If K&C's solution to this crisis is to expect families to move boroughs, they should take a good, hard look at the bill Shirley Porter was forced to pay for shipping residents out of Westminster. And if they - personally - can afford £12m for failing to do their moral duty, they should have put that money into safer homes in the first place.
  • Our properties are in Wandsworth.

    Sarf of the River guv.
  • WSSWSS
    edited June 2017
    I just think that, god forbid, me and my family were left without a roof over our head I'd take a roof rather than no roof - regardless of location. In the immediate term at least.

    Longer term, of course there has to be moves to get everyone back "home" but how practical is it to do NOW? My cousin's flat in Welling went up in flames and they were out of it for four months (in Bexleyheath) whilst it was being repaired and restored etc and this is a far bigger situation to deal with.
  • But there are thousands of households on waiting lists in all the inner London Boroughs. Who all face their own pressing issues.
    I don't envy anyone in the allocation teams if each borough or Housing Association picks up the slack.
    The best long term solution would be to acquire by hook or by crook accommodation close to the block.
    What seems to have been missed is the subtenants of leaseholders. What priority do they, should they, have.
  • edited June 2017
    Spoke to Addicted today.......he's trying his best to relax at home with his family and latest edition, an eleven week old Border Collie called Buddy!
    He's had one hell of a week as we all know and reckons he won't wind down from this for some months to come.
    I didn't really want to press him too much but I did make the point of some stupid people looking for scapegoats at such an early stage and that it's almost certain that no laws have been broken regarding materials and workmanship.
    At the end of the day, why was this type of cladding passed by the authorities as being suitable.......and therefore making it perfectly legal.
    Surely that's where the heart of the blame, if any, lies.......who passed this material as being safe and suitable when clearly it's not fit for purpose.
    He didn't commit himself completely to my view......but interestingly he didn't disagree either.
    It's banned in The US and I read on here that it's also banned in Germany......though he says it has been widely used there(Germany that is) and indeed all over Europe. So maybe it's now banned in Germany .....a German company markets it.......and it's a French invention.......he didn't mention where it's manufactured though.
    It's a thought I have, but just 'maybe' responsibility(once again, if in fact there is any) doesn't lie in The UK at all........but elsewhere!
  • May says she will take "personal responsibility" for getting enquiry recommendations implemented. Hands up if you think she will still be in a position of power when the enquiry eventually finishes its work?
    I would be far more reassured if she could commit her party, or preferably (by agreement) ALL parties, to this.
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  • Sorry but (and I say this as someone who doesn't rate May at all) the totally over the top attack on the PM in the aftermath of the tragedy by the left is bordering on ludicrous now. And now people are politicising this by violent protests outside Downing St shouting for May to be removed.

    Rather than trying to overthrow the government in some kind of coup - let's see where the action plan leads.

    We have a public enquiry, we have funding set aside, we have a three week deadline to rehouse, we have members of the community sitting down to discuss it with the PM ( that's right, a meeting at Downing St may not be as PR' able and photo friendly as getting a hug from Jeremy but maybe it will actually be a more detailed and productive talk?)...

    We need to see where it goes but I can't see anything that has happened over the last few days that requires and immediate overthrow of the government, either by another senior Tory figure or by any Labour involvement.

    Let's stop the political games and just worry about proceeding with the plan in place.

    If this is a reply to my post @DamoNorthStand I'm afraid that the whole subject of social housing, austerity; call it what you will, is political. Everything we do is a result of political decisions. I freely admit to being a supporter of left-wing socialism, but my eyebrows were raised, nonetheless, by Corbyn's post-May visit to the scene - unfortunately he was given that coup by May in yet another PR disaster. Even the Queen, for whom I have no admiration, and who's family hold a residence worth X billion in the same borough, managed more than May.

    A public enquiry, as you must appreciate, will take years to complete and is subject to the terms of reference outlined by the governement - i.e. May.

    Funding has been set aside but none of it has so far been allocated.

    Define 're-housed'. There are reports of an elderly man being re-housed in a nursing home, where he doesn't want to be.

    There are no political games. The governement have sat on the last enquiry for four years without doing anything, and there's no indication so far that this will be any better.

    However, yes, there should be some kind of coup. There will be anyway, because even amongst the Tory faithful May is already out. But people have had enough of corruption, nepotism and jobs for the boys.

    May should go, because her response has been shameful, but also because her track record at the HO was shameful, as was the record of the Cameron/Osborne/May governement - and Bliar was equally worse. She has simply lost the British people - if she hadn't lost them at the election, she has now. We can't continue with her.
  • N01R4M said:

    May says she will take "personal responsibility" for getting enquiry recommendations implemented. Hands up if you think she will still be in a position of power when the enquiry eventually finishes its work?
    I would be far more reassured if she could commit her party, or preferably (by agreement) ALL parties, to this.

    By the time the enquiry is finished she'll be Lady May, enjoying her £350 a day or whatever it is for signing in at the HoL, quaffing monkfish poached in rosé and summer truffles, as she was the night of the disaster, and I'm sure the two muppets who advised her (and continue to advise her behind the scenes) will be there too. The victims will still be living in tower blocks somewhere in the west of London, and K&C will be Tory controlled because all of the poor people have gone.
  • edited June 2017
    The elderly man was interviewed on the TV and it is true not just a report. May has not been prime minister long enough to take all the blame, but the response to the disaster has been terrible.

    People who say that this shouldn't be political are being political. If a link is found to austerity/cost cutting, even a tiny one , then how can it not be political? Obviously, many believe there is a link, but we should all be sure. I have asked myself the question that if say this block was converted into luxury flats would it have been safer? I won't answer that question, how you answer it in your own head will probably define your position. But it is just as political to say that you think austerity isn't the cause as saying you think it is.

    We can't jump to conclusions, but many, many people died in unimaginable ways and we have to accept people will be angry. That should have been picked up on much earlier and things could have been done to manage this better. That there are people on the streets still saying there are no signs of official support is disgraceful. Who here wouldn't have got that sorted as a priority?
  • Spoke to Addicted today.......he's trying his best to relax at home with his family and latest edition, an eleven week old Border Collie called Buddy!
    He's had one hell of a week as we all know and reckons he won't wind down from this for some months to come.
    I didn't really want to press him too much but I did make the point of some stupid people looking for scapegoats at such an early stage and that it's almost certain that no laws have been broken regarding materials and workmanship.
    At the end of the day, why was this type of cladding passed by the authorities as being suitable.......and therefore making it perfectly legal.
    Surely that's where the heart of the blame, if any, lies.......who passed this material as being safe and suitable when clearly it's not fit for purpose.
    He didn't commit himself completely to my view......but interestingly he didn't disagree either.
    It's banned in The US and I read on here that it's also banned in Germany......though he says it has been widely used there(Germany that is) and indeed all over Europe. So maybe it's now banned in Germany .....a German company markets it.......and it's a French invention.......he didn't mention where it's manufactured though.
    It's a thought I have, but just 'maybe' responsibility(once again, if in fact there is any) doesn't lie in The UK at all........but elsewhere!

    I'm with you SoundAs and it might work out the blames not in the UK,but even if this is the case someone in the UK will be a scapegoat
  • N01R4M said:

    May says she will take "personal responsibility" for getting enquiry recommendations implemented. Hands up if you think she will still be in a position of power when the enquiry eventually finishes its work?
    I would be far more reassured if she could commit her party, or preferably (by agreement) ALL parties, to this.

    *starts
  • aliwibble said:

    WSS said:

    I doubt families would want to remain homeless if somewhere outside of Kensington was offered.

    Depends if we're talking neighbouring boroughs or out of London.
    You've lost everything and then moved away from your community, your kids schools, jobs, family, etc.

    The duty is to get the families as close to North Kensington as possible, not be put in St Mary's Cray or Southend. Wandsworth is probably as far you would hope, and fingers crossed housing is found in Westminster, Hammersmith and Fulham, and Brent.
  • edited June 2017
    Get a team of civil servant volunteers together, giving them a caseload of 10 families each and a procurement office to charge things to and let them help people get back on their feet. Their Objective (there will be many civil servanyts capable of this) - 1) security - housing in comfort and to family's satisfaction locally (probably in hotels), 2) provision of £1,000 for basics - or if families are too traumitised identify what is needed and pocure for them, and ongoing provision of this 3) Ensure their food and religious needs are fully catered for, 4) Contact with updates and to answer questions two times a day,4) Arrange for any counselling that is needed, 5) Buy the children some toys, 6) In the longer term represent the families wishes in terms of re-housing.

    Give support workers those objectives, which could have been given on day one and let them get on with the job.
  • The elderly man was interviewed on the TV and it is true not just a report. May has not been prime minister long enough to take all the blame, but the response to the disaster has been terrible.

    I have asked myself the question that if say this block was converted into luxury flats would it have been safer? I won't

    May was in the Home Office and signed off on all the austerity cuts and as PM (before she lost her majority and called an election for her own political advantage) she wanted to cut even more. She must go.

    As to luxury flats, there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, empty in K&C and elsewhere. An old man gets shoved into a nursing home, where he doesn't want to be, and shouldn't be, but that's ok - it's one less problem to deal with. The poor guy's lost his whole life and he's shoved into a nursing home? I imagine many others will be in semi-dubious B&Bs in the area, they're not gonna put them in a Best Western.

    Compare all this to floods, even the London bombings and Manchester: this has been a total disaster. And May's statement, which has just come out: apart from the meaningless blather, the 'we got it wrong' quote is conveniently buried at the bottom.

    It all smells like a politician trying to save her sorry arse. Everything she says just makes it worse (and, like the buried 'we got it wrong', look beyond the headlines and see how much political spin is being put on this.

  • Song for Theresa;

    It ain't what you do - Fun boy Three and Bananarama.

    Just saying.
  • edited June 2017

    Get a team of civil servant volunteers together, giving them a caseload of 10 families each and a procurement office to charge things to and let them help people get back on their feet. Their Objective (there will be many civil servanyts capable of this) - 1) security - housing in comfort and to family's satisfaction locally (probably in hotels), 2) provision of £1,000 for basics - or if families are too traumitised identify what is needed and pocure for them, and ongoing provision of this 3) Ensure their food and religious needs are fully catered for, 4) Contact with updates and to answer questions two times a day,4) Arrange for any counselling that is needed, 5) Buy the children some toys, 6) In the longer term represent the families wishes in terms of re-housing.

    Give support workers those objectives, which could have been given on day one and let them get on with the job.

    They could also meet up for strategic meetings so they are able to respond to emerging or unforseen issues. Should have happened on day one - If I was PM I would have made sure it happened, but can still happen now,
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  • Get a team of civil servant volunteers together, giving them a caseload of 10 families each and a procurement office to charge things to and let them help people get back on their feet. Their Objective (there will be many civil servanyts capable of this) - 1) security - housing in comfort and to family's satisfaction locally (probably in hotels), 2) provision of £1,000 for basics - or if families are too traumitised identify what is needed and pocure for them, and ongoing provision of this 3) Ensure their food and religious needs are fully catered for, 4) Contact with updates and to answer questions two times a day,4) Arrange for any counselling that is needed, 5) Buy the children some toys, 6) In the longer term represent the families wishes in terms of re-housing.

    Give support workers those objectives, which could have been given on day one and let them get on with the job.

    They could also meet up for strategic meetings so they are able to respond to emerging or unforseen issues. Should have happened on day one - If I was PM I would have made sure it happened, but can still happen now,
    You can't rewrite stuff on the hoof. There are, unfortunately or not, laws that govern the response to stuff like this.
  • agim said:

    Was up there today. Helped out with the clothes donations for a couple of hours and it's a really strange environment at the moment. There was a open mic with people understandably venting their anger, Christian song groups singing and individuals protesting all over the place. I've never seen anything like it.
    It's a massive mixture of emotions but for me the worst thing was looking at the building knowing there's still people in there.

    I liked your post because YOU actually went and did something.
  • agim said:

    Was up there today. Helped out with the clothes donations for a couple of hours and it's a really strange environment at the moment. There was a open mic with people understandably venting their anger, Christian song groups singing and individuals protesting all over the place. I've never seen anything like it.
    It's a massive mixture of emotions but for me the worst thing was looking at the building knowing there's still people in there.

    I liked your post because YOU actually went and did something.
    Yes well played @agim
  • agim said:

    Was up there today. Helped out with the clothes donations for a couple of hours and it's a really strange environment at the moment. There was a open mic with people understandably venting their anger, Christian song groups singing and individuals protesting all over the place. I've never seen anything like it.
    It's a massive mixture of emotions but for me the worst thing was looking at the building knowing there's still people in there.

    Fair play to you. Above and beyond what you needed to do.
    Respect abundantly to you and all the other volunteers.
  • edited June 2017
    I'm just catching up on both third thread and this tragedy. 48 people dead from a fire in 2017 is nigh on unfathomable.

    I'd like to know if anyone has any in-depth articles that go over both what happened, but also the living conditions within these tower blocks, the health and safety regulations, all that.

    @Addickted, I really appreciate your posts. You're clearly someone who deals with this every day. Apologies if I've missed this, but I'd like to know what you think can be done better in future--ways to prevent something like this (as in such a terrible loss of life from fire, not fire unto itself). I say this understanding that, simply put, you cannot prevent everything.

    @agim huge credit for going out there and volunteering. You're reacting better than I almost certainly would.

    One last thing, in the midst of two wars on terrorism we had the worst natural disaster in American history. *Part* of what made it so bad was lack of proper funding to the levees protecting New Orleans. I don't know how congruent the similarities are between these two incidents (I know this has been called May's "Hurricane Katrina," but Obama had like 17 things called that because it makes a neat headline), but when these things happen it always makes me question how we prioritize our attention and funding.
  • @agim is there a system in place whereby you have to prove you were a Grenfell resident to obtain anything or just taking everyone at face value.
  • edited June 2017
    So £209 million lying around and they couldn't afford the extra 2 quid per sheet of cladding. No words really sum this up.
  • MrOneLung said:

    @agim is there a system in place whereby you have to prove you were a Grenfell resident to obtain anything or just taking everyone at face value.

    I'm not sure. We were taking in the donations and sorting them into boxes. Mens, women, baby etc and then packing them ready for distribution. I assume the authorities have a list of what needs to go where. We were told anything not taken will then be sent out to other charities.
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