I can honestly say that in all the years of using Charlton forums I have never come across a thread with such polarised opinion and ridiculous judgmental assumptions.....most of them clearly made on purely political grounds. IMHO the crucial part of the matter is whether or not this material was passed as safe to use in The UK or not......... in the way it was. Were there outright restrictions on it being used for this type of project.....or only recommendations on how it should be used? My beef is looking to blame the authorities who gave this product an OK to be used in The UK at all......not those who unwittingly used it. Until then it's all guesswork as to whether or not the law has been broken or if there's any actual legal 'professional' blame that can be laid at anyone's door. My personal calculated guess is that laws have not been broken.....but like everyone else I'll have to wait and see, without jumping to political point winning assumptions.
I expect the outcome will be that the cause is attributed to a chain of events and failures that, in isolation, would not have resulted in a disaster but the accumulation of which led to the tragedy. If any one of maybe a dozen factors had not happened, neither would the fire as the chain would have been broken. Aside from supporting those affected in every possible way, the key now is to ensure that chain is broken permanently and cannot recur. It remains to be seen if that actually happens...
I expect the outcome will be that the cause is attributed to a chain of events and failures that, in isolation, would not have resulted in a disaster but the accumulation of which led to the tragedy. If any one of maybe a dozen factors had not happened, neither would the fire as the chain would have been broken. Aside from supporting those affected in every possible way, the key now is to ensure that chain is broken permanently and cannot recur. It remains to be seen if that actually happens...
I can honestly say that in all the years of using Charlton forums I have never come across a thread with such polarised opinion and ridiculous judgmental assumptions.....most of them clearly made on purely political grounds. IMHO the crucial part of the matter is whether or not this material was passed as safe to use in The UK or not......... in the way it was. Were there outright restrictions on it being used for this type of project.....or only recommendations on how it should be used? My beef is looking to blame the authorities who gave this product an OK to be used in The UK at all......not those who unwittingly used it. Until then it's all guesswork as to whether or not the law has been broken or if there's any actual legal 'professional' blame that can be laid at anyone's door. My personal calculated guess is that laws have not been broken.....but like everyone else I'll have to wait and see, without jumping to political point winning assumptions.
exactly my point. There are also leaked letters showing clearly minsters were given clear warnings - I want to know why they didn't heed them. It may not be their fault, but this should be clear to everhybody now! Please don't say it is political - I want the actions of all parties to be scrutinised - I'm sure this has affected a lot of people like it has me. They deserve justice.
Absolutely heartbreaking watching the Syrian lad studying mechanical engineering who after fleeing Syria because of the troubles, was hoping to go back and help rebuild his country when the time was right. So it he has had to flee his homeland and become a refugee because of war, only to seek solace in this country and end up living in a death trap and like all the other victims, neglected by us as a society.
Sobering, yet painstakingly horrible example of the very worst of humankind.
Again, I go to bed feeling ashamed of what has happened to these people
It was a terrible tragedy and a total waste of life
The way it's been used for political gain and to yet again allow the media in this country to revel in the pain and suffering of others was just as big a scandal as those who will ultimately be punished
But it was a tragic accident and only that and times I have seen people be as consumed with hate as if May poured petrol in there and stood back and watched , I heard corbyn Stoke the hate very calculated in what he done in the early hrs after and as soon as people started to criticise the political posturing and exploiting of real pain and suffering crawled back in to his hole very dangerous individual corbyn
May is just a very poor leader who truley has been exposed as weak and unable to show the balls needed to lead and as such a real danger to us all whilst in charge , i have zero confidence in her and right now due to that weakness is as dangerous as corbyn
Every other council in the country red,blue or green are breathing a sigh of relief it never happend to them
The amount of back handers people get within the whole tendering process is shameful across all councils
Great artist choice by cowell and excellently produced if you want to show your sorrow purchase it
No celebs need to offer these winnings these earnings towards the cause it's all self publicity with very little sentiment
and then allow families to grieve in private stop encouraging people who don't even live there don't have any family lost to speak shit to cameras and microphones
We all saw it , far to much of it imo and all have an opinion in where it went wrong and what we saw
And although I agree that there's very little sympathy being shown to those in the flats that will be used to house those in need I do actually understand their view as well but sometimes it's just tough shit , house prices in London are good you'll not lose any value sell the one your in if it annoys you that much
Yes, it was right to get rid and should have been done sooner but it was done. We have to make sure he isn't a scapegoat to load everything onto though as culpable as he clearly is. I want to know why warnings were ignored - I don't undertsand why somebody can't just explain to us - the reason might be exusable or at least understandable but please tell us and much more importantly the families what the reasons are.
My undertsanding from research I have undertaken is that it was accepted within government that beefed up regs including fitting would make residents safer but was supressed because there was a view within government that it would increase costs and discourage house building. Now this may or may not be true, but we should known if it is by now surely.
Why do we still not know who is leading this public enquiry? A suggestion would be to have it led by the same person who led the Camberwell fire one if possible. Why are things taking so long? Is it to cover tracks? You have to ask this question when you are not seeing the pace and resolve you need to be seeing.
Sorry? "A number"? What is that supposed to mean? If she knows of any flats which are "combustible" and she doesn't say which ones, she's playing Russian Roulette.
Sorry? "A number"? What is that supposed to mean? If she knows of any flats which are "combustible" and she doesn't say which ones, she's playing Russian Roulette.
Sorry? "A number"? What is that supposed to mean? If she knows of any flats which are "combustible" and she doesn't say which ones, she's playing Russian Roulette.
People in these flats must be re-housed, today.
This is exactly why things have to move quickly!
If she's thinking of having people sleep in "combustible" flats tonight, that's shameful.
a lot of plastic items are poisonous when burnt majority of garden furniture, toys, kitchenware is plastic which when burnt can release poisonous gases, it was an accident a very tragic one at that and i do think something is being done to help the victims of it, not saying more cant be done but something is happening.
regarding hotels its not feasable to put people in the reference to ba thats usually an overnight thing, but these people need to have kitchens and adeqaute washing facilities i doubt there's many councils in England that have enough empty property to Rehome at least 400 people.
Combustible definition, capable of catching fire and burning;
so pretty much every property in the UK, the difference is sprinkler systems and adequate fire escapes should be in situ.
the flip side is a sprinkler system gets damaged and floods a load of peoples property through vandalism or damage then residents will want them removed, fire escapes need to be kept clear and have correct burn times if internal
a lot of plastic items are poisonous when burnt majority of garden furniture, toys, kitchenware is plastic which when burnt can release poisonous gases, it was an accident a very tragic one at that and i do think something is being done to help the victims of it, not saying more cant be done but something is happening.
regarding hotels its not feasable to put people in the reference to ba thats usually an overnight thing, but these people need to have kitchens and adeqaute washing facilities i doubt there's many councils in England that have enough empty property to Rehome at least 400 people.
I'm sure it will be very difficult for some local authorities to re-house large numbers of people at short notice. But, that's their job.
We all expect the fire service to deal with fires, even when there are more than usual. We expect hospitals to cope with high volumes of patients. In the same way, we should expect the Housing Departments of local authorities to handle fluctuations in demand for housing. It's their only job.
Comments
If any one of maybe a dozen factors had not happened, neither would the fire as the chain would have been broken.
Aside from supporting those affected in every possible way, the key now is to ensure that chain is broken permanently and cannot recur.
It remains to be seen if that actually happens...
Quotes source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/21/rehousing-of-grenfell-tower-families-in-luxury-block-meets-mixed-response
Sobering, yet painstakingly horrible example of the very worst of humankind.
Again, I go to bed feeling ashamed of what has happened to these people
The way it's been used for political gain and to yet again allow the media in this country to revel in the pain and suffering of others was just as big a scandal as those who will ultimately be punished
But it was a tragic accident and only that and times I have seen people be as consumed with hate as if May poured petrol in there and stood back and watched , I heard corbyn Stoke the hate very calculated in what he done in the early hrs after and as soon as people started to criticise the political posturing and exploiting of real pain and suffering crawled back in to his hole very dangerous individual corbyn
May is just a very poor leader who truley has been exposed as weak and unable to show the balls needed to lead and as such a real danger to us all whilst in charge , i have zero confidence in her and right now due to that weakness is as dangerous as corbyn
Every other council in the country red,blue or green are breathing a sigh of relief it never happend to them
The amount of back handers people get within the whole tendering process is shameful across all councils
Great artist choice by cowell and excellently produced if you want to show your sorrow purchase it
No celebs need to offer these winnings these earnings towards the cause it's all self publicity with very little sentiment
and then allow families to grieve in private stop encouraging people who don't even live there don't have any family lost to speak shit to cameras and microphones
We all saw it , far to much of it imo and all have an opinion in where it went wrong and what we saw
And although I agree that there's very little sympathy being shown to those in the flats that will be used to house those in need I do actually understand their view as well but sometimes it's just tough shit , house prices in London are good you'll not lose any value sell the one your in if it annoys you that much
May says mistakes were made
Public servant my arse.
My undertsanding from research I have undertaken is that it was accepted within government that beefed up regs including fitting would make residents safer but was supressed because there was a view within government that it would increase costs and discourage house building. Now this may or may not be true, but we should known if it is by now surely.
Why do we still not know who is leading this public enquiry? A suggestion would be to have it led by the same person who led the Camberwell fire one if possible. Why are things taking so long? Is it to cover tracks? You have to ask this question when you are not seeing the pace and resolve you need to be seeing.
People in these flats must be re-housed, today.
New accommodation needs to be found this morning.
regarding hotels its not feasable to put people in the reference to ba thats usually an overnight thing, but these people need to have kitchens and adeqaute washing facilities i doubt there's many councils in England that have enough empty property to Rehome at least 400 people.
so pretty much every property in the UK, the difference is sprinkler systems and adequate fire escapes should be in situ.
the flip side is a sprinkler system gets damaged and floods a load of peoples property through vandalism or damage then residents will want them removed, fire escapes need to be kept clear and have correct burn times if internal
We all expect the fire service to deal with fires, even when there are more than usual. We expect hospitals to cope with high volumes of patients. In the same way, we should expect the Housing Departments of local authorities to handle fluctuations in demand for housing. It's their only job.