I find it incredible that people can get so heated over a box being sent with the season ticket. There are bigger things to worry about...
It's not actually about the box though is it? It's a catalyst that has brought out the division between fans that think we should keep quiet and just show up and things will improve and those that want to see fundamental change and things will improve. The box is a nice idea in itself. On another thread it was mentioned Hummel did the same thing back at Spurs.
That link gives the quote as "I should not say it, but I do not care about the club's history. We need the pampering, but not at any price."
And that's the problem with translation. I can read that two ways. It could mean I'm not paying an over the top price or I'm not paying any price.
I agree. I very much would like new owners, not least to try and unify our support. I feel that polarised sides quoting, misquoting and double meaning translations, even after the author has amended the original obscure the facts. I end up not listening to either side and choose to go and watch my team.
I do not think it is meant to build bridges. It is supposed to celebrate 25 years since our return. It will not and is not changing people's mind, it is however a decent thing to do.
Exactly, it's typical that this has now turned into a pro / anti regime thread. To celebrate the 25th aniversary they have packaged the season tickets in a presentation box with a scarf and a few odds & ends. Just see it for what it is and not as some sort of subliminal brain washing campaign.
Why would they be doing this then, when they publicly stated that history is not important?
I think someone in the marketing department had an idea that to celebrate the 25th aniversary it might be nice to send the season tickets out with some comemorative memorabilia. Why do you think they did it?
My experience of marketing departments, is that they do things for reasons other than because, "it's nice". When they start doing things just to be nice, I'm sure they'll get renamed benevolent departments or something similar.
My point was there doesn't have to be any ulterior motive; it is what it is. If you look hard enough you can find a myriad of reasons why they did it. You must be a bundle of laughs Christmas morning. 'What's the Paco Rabanne for, do you think I stink'. Edit: If my post has to be edited by the mods I'd rather it was deleted, as any offence was intended.
PR Tom's full of bright ideas isn't he? The postie put mine in the recycling bin as it wouldn't go through the letter box. I'm still wondering if I should have left it in there.
I note that PR Tom has taken Daisy's crayons away too. The opening message is signed anonymously 'Charlton Athletic Football Club'. It's a sad state of affairs when the leader of the organisation can't be permitted to welcome the fans back to a new season.
WTF is the handy, pocket-sized hexagonal hospitality brochure about? Why go to the pointless additional production expense? I'd rather they spent what little money they had on players than on gimmicky nonsense like that.
PR Tom's full of bright ideas isn't he? The postie put mine in the recycling bin as it wouldn't go through the letter box. I'm still wondering if I should have left it in there.
I note that PR Tom has taken Daisy's crayons away too. The opening message is signed anonymously 'Charlton Athletic Football Club'. It's a sad state of affairs when the leader of the organisation can't be permitted to welcome the fans back to a new season.
WTF is the handy, pocket-sized hexagonal hospitality brochure about? Why go to the pointless additional production expense? I'd rather they spent what little money they had on players than on gimmicky nonsense like that.
Turn it in, you seriously think printing a few brochures has any bearing on whether we can bring in a new signing?! We were probably paying Teixeira and Ceballos more in a day than the whole print run cost.
I find it incredible that people can get so heated over a box being sent with the season ticket. There are bigger things to worry about...
It's not actually about the box though is it? It's a catalyst that has brought out the division between fans that think we should keep quiet and just show up and things will improve and those that want to see fundamental change and things will improve. The box is a nice idea in itself. On another thread it was mentioned Hummel did the same thing back at Spurs.
I just think having an argument about everything gets a bit tiring. I don't understand how this can be such a catalyst?
There are far bigger things in life to waste your energy on than a marketing ploy at Charlton.
I do not think it is meant to build bridges. It is supposed to celebrate 25 years since our return. It will not and is not changing people's mind, it is however a decent thing to do.
Exactly, it's typical that this has now turned into a pro / anti regime thread. To celebrate the 25th aniversary they have packaged the season tickets in a presentation box with a scarf and a few odds & ends. Just see it for what it is and not as some sort of subliminal brain washing campaign.
Why would they be doing this then, when they publicly stated that history is not important?
I think someone in the marketing department had an idea that to celebrate the 25th aniversary it might be nice to send the season tickets out with some comemorative memorabilia. Why do you think they did it?
My experience of marketing departments, is that they do things for reasons other than because, "it's nice". When they start doing things just to be nice, I'm sure they'll get renamed benevolent departments or something similar.
My point was there doesn't have to be any ulterior motive; it is what it is. If you look hard enough you can find a myriad of reasons why they did it. You must be a bundle of laughs Christmas morning. 'What's the Paco Rabanne for, do you think I stink'. Edit: If my post has to be edited by the mods I'd rather it was deleted, as any offence was intended.
And my point is that as marketers, if there isn't a proper motive they aren't doing their job properly. That motive may be positive or not, or as you say, there may be a range of motives, but they do not do things for no reason.
The difference between this and Christmas, Sid, is that I get my Christmas presents from people who love me. Sometimes they get me great presents, sometimes they don't. But I always know that it's given in exactly the right spirit and I am always appreciative no matter what I get. Unless it's Paco Rabanne!
Why on earth would you think your post might be edited?
If people are too bitter to see that the club is changing and making an effort to repair the damage that the owner has caused, then I don't think they are being objective.
I accept that many fans have been very hurt by the past 3 years, me included, but do we want the club to prosper again or do we not ?
I would like the fans to all pull in the same direction and try and bring back the good times.
I criticise no one.
I understand your point of view but if I'd been in a relationship for 4 years in which my partner had patronised & lied to me, sold my most treasured belongings and kept the profits, looked to turn my house into flats and they had a bit on the side in Northeast Belgium of 'equal' affection - no amount of grovelling or freebies would win back my trust or devotion. They can all still **** off.
Yes, they've patronised and lied & sold some of our most treasured belongings. They haven't kept the profits, because they have lent us more than £50M. They have investigated options to improve revenue at The Valley, but haven't actioned anything. They will never win back my trust and I don't support them. I support Charlton. I go to watch our team. They could be here in another 5 years, so if you gave up 3 years ago and don't intend going until they've sold up, you've basically given up supporting Charlton (for the most part).
personally it does look good, but a new kit and a fancy box for a season ticket, doesn't undo the bad that they've done.
Of course it doesnt, but taken in isolation it's a good thing, an improvement on fan communication and marketing. Damned if they do, damned if they don't, IF they are truly learning lessons, they have to start somewhere. Senior players have stated to KR that the moral and squad atmosphere is the best in years, we seem to be signing decent players, and retained our star player, with the promise of more to come. The regime have a hell of a lot to answer for on every level, and IMO public apologies, but credit where it's due so far this pre season, it just feels different and more positive than for a long time.
PR Tom's full of bright ideas isn't he? The postie put mine in the recycling bin as it wouldn't go through the letter box. I'm still wondering if I should have left it in there.
I note that PR Tom has taken Daisy's crayons away too. The opening message is signed anonymously 'Charlton Athletic Football Club'. It's a sad state of affairs when the leader of the organisation can't be permitted to welcome the fans back to a new season.
WTF is the handy, pocket-sized hexagonal hospitality brochure about? Why go to the pointless additional production expense? I'd rather they spent what little money they had on players than on gimmicky nonsense like that.
Turn it in, you seriously think printing a few brochures has any bearing on whether we can bring in a new signing?! We were probably paying Teixeira and Ceballos more in a day than the whole print run cost.
I wasn't being literal. It's just indicative of their thinking. PR Tom thinks a new website and gimmicky PR nick nacks make a difference when in the face of the distrust and disengagement from the fanbase they are just a waste of money. Save the budget for stuff that actually works, not a scarf I'll never wear in a box that won't fit through my door and an unwieldy catalogue for hospitality I'll never book.
Apologies for being annoyed at some having a jossle over a fancy box ( for the record not people on here the Facebook group ) the man has taken us from a stable championship club to a average joe league 1 side, we will be lucky to scrape playoffs, but of course I'm not a charlton fan and only want the club to fail and should praise them for it.
25 years - of course remember it, but I'm not going to praise them, I would rather be in the championship as a stable club instead of where we are now with an exclusive Hummel kit - if I'm wrong and they have changed then I'll scoff humble pie, personally I think I'll be going hungry.
One season in the championship after being promot d,from league one after being down there for three seasons in of which one of those we finished in our lowest position ever does not make us a "stable club" does it? Under the tenure of Jeminez and Slater can you remember the pitch in which we played on and the firce criticism it came under especially the adandonmemt of the match in August due to a waterlogged pitch? Everything costs money as well as time, there are clubs in the championship and yes I can comment about this as I work within the game and am aware how long decisions can take to be made within football, you think you are there with a deal and drags for weeks if not months, then you think it is a dead deal for it all to be resurrected and done in twenty four hours. There are clubs that at this moment in time all appears to be going wonderfully well on the outside however when you get inside the club itself the ownership is awful, staff unhappy, things are being scrapped in which there is no future for the club however we are the complete opposite and we should be positive about our future as it looks a lot brighter than most clubs including those above us and we are the envy of many in terms of facilities and wages in which we spend.
Whilst I would question your pronouncement that our club is "the complete opposite" of others seemingly well run, even successful , I would be going over old ground , albeit waterlogged or, as in SE7 last season, frozen, so I'll merely ask you one thing.
Let's suppose you could ask a selection of supporters, across the board, from the other 91 clubs to describe Charlton Athletic FC, in one short phrase, as they currently view our club, what do you think would be the overall perception ?
"Well respected" ? " Family friendly" ? " Well run" ? " Successful" ?
Or maybe "the complete opposite" ?
Point taken, however would you not agree that the likes of Portsmouth, Newcastle, Leeds, plus many more have had shall we say controversial owners but the fans have still stuck by their teams, if you then draw a parallel to Aston Villa, Leyton Orient, Blackpool, Coventry, Blackburn and ourselves in the way our fans have reacted by the protesting of the board and staying away rather than supporting the team I think there is an argument there to support the team rather than rip it apart.
"Hundreds of angry Portsmouth supporters demonstrated yesterday before their side faced Sunderland in the FA Cup at Fratton Park. They blocked the main entrance into the director’s lounge, and called for the resignation of the rock-bottom club’s owners. Police and stewards were forced to erect a barrier around the main entrance.
Chief executive Peter Storrie did come out to collect a petition from the supporters and attempted to reason with them. But they soon turned on him and unleashed a torrent of abuse in his direction.
During Pompey’s 2-1 victory some home fans invaded the pitch. They confronted Pompey players and appeared to be trying to get to the area in front of the directors’ box."
"Leeds United fans plan to march in protest against the club owner Massimo Cellino through the city centre streets before Saturday’s home Championship game against Reading.
The fans’ group Time To Go Massimo will join other supporters opposed to the Italian’s ownership of the club at Leeds City Square before embarking on a march to Elland Road."
"A protest group is urging Newcastle fans to refuse to leave St James’ Park on Sunday one month after asking them to stay away.
The Ashley Out protest group has unveiled plans for a sit-in protest at St James’ following the final whistle on Sunday, writes Will Metcalfe in the Newcastle Chronicle.
Newcastle will take on West Ham in a game that could see them relegated for the second time in Mike Ashley’s tenure should Hull City beat Manchester United and the Magpies lose to West Ham.
The protest is the latest measure from the anonymous group which hopes to see Mr Ashley sell the club."
I guess it's a chicken & egg kind of question: what came first?
a. the toxic regime either left or had a complete strategic overhaul then the fans came back b. the fans started to support the toxic regime and things magically got better
Yes but they still supported the team in the grounds on match day home and away
Looks very nice and a good gesture , FairPlay ....
If they came out and held their hands up and without using the crude language I will , admitted they had been a complete bunch of inept clueless , who had fucked up sooooo bad with sooo many terrible decisions starting with Kermo and the treatment of SCP and disrespectful comments from that inept twat KM and apologised for ignoring emails from fans and sponsors etc etc Then just then maybe the redemption process could begin
But let's face it they are lame and have committed scars to our club that will take years to heal .A few token gestures may work for some of those who can look the other way to their wrongs but proper sincereness in admitting their failings is what would make me feel they are genuine rather than being pushed by a PR firm to attempt to cover over their natural wankness.
If you can't be genuine then fuck off with your clueless guessing game
I do agree with you, but I doubt some full apology will ever be received, although I don't buy a programme these days, so am unsure if anything has ever been offered. Personally, I think a full and frank apology in the programme or press, would be a definite turning point and should have been done a year ago or more, but now would be better late than never.
I asked Meire at the Trust meeting in April if she truly realised why half the fans had stopped attending and to my surprise, she said yes, it is because of us, the owner and myself.
So whilst, this was not an apology, I did feel for the first time, that this was a genuine admission of fault and regret.
I sensed for the first time, that the denials of liability, had finally been dropped for an acceptance of it.
I want to challenge very strongly the idea that it's "a nice gesture". It isn't a nice gesture at all, it's a PR stunt. They are trying to bolster their damaged reputation by buying people off: Season ticket holders, who they know will be softer targets than lapsed attendees. This is the regime that has torn our club apart. They traded decent players for useless wannabes. They lied to fans. They drove people away. What they are doing now is the equivalent of giving your loved one a bunch of flowers after you've cheated on them. It stinks. It's just a manipulative ploy to try and fool people. And all for what? The cost of a scarf and a calendar, well whoopee do.
For those who think it's about building bridges, here's an idea. If they want to build bridges they should start by apologising. They should then produce a list of errors and formulate plans to ensure that they do not repeat them. They will not do that, because they are in denial about whose fault this mess is.
And as for all this Back the The Valley nonsense, it's sickening. They are not interested in that at all. We have an owner who has stated that competitive football is not important and a CEO who has said she does not care for the history of the club. They are piggy packing on this anniversary to try and gain brownie points. As @charltonkeston so eloquently put it, the PR company "are using some of my [our] best memories and associating them with the current vermin". Wake up, people. How many extra chances do this lot need?
But Stig, I think you're missing the point. It comes in a nice red box! - Oh alright then, I take it back they must be genuinely decent people who have learnt the error of their ways and are committed to change. Viva Duchatelet. Viva Meire. Viva The Regime.
See my post above about Meire admitting whose fault it is, so apologies, but you are wrong.
I want to challenge very strongly the idea that it's "a nice gesture". It isn't a nice gesture at all, it's a PR stunt. They are trying to bolster their damaged reputation by buying people off: Season ticket holders, who they know will be softer targets than lapsed attendees. This is the regime that has torn our club apart. They traded decent players for useless wannabes. They lied to fans. They drove people away. What they are doing now is the equivalent of giving your loved one a bunch of flowers after you've cheated on them. It stinks. It's just a manipulative ploy to try and fool people. And all for what? The cost of a scarf and a calendar, well whoopee do.
For those who think it's about building bridges, here's an idea. If they want to build bridges they should start by apologising. They should then produce a list of errors and formulate plans to ensure that they do not repeat them. They will not do that, because they are in denial about whose fault this mess is.
And as for all this Back the The Valley nonsense, it's sickening. They are not interested in that at all. We have an owner who has stated that competitive football is not important and a CEO who has said she does not care for the history of the club. They are piggy packing on this anniversary to try and gain brownie points. As @charltonkeston so eloquently put it, the PR company "are using some of my [our] best memories and associating them with the current vermin". Wake up, people. How many extra chances do this lot need?
But Stig, I think you're missing the point. It comes in a nice red box! - Oh alright then, I take it back they must be genuinely decent people who have learnt the error of their ways and are committed to change. Viva Duchatelet. Viva Meire. Viva The Regime.
Aaah bless, you didn't get one then?
Oh great. Another smart arse quip from somebody who would rather sit on their arse and whistle Dixie whilst our saviours drive our support away in droves. Everything's great ennit, if you ignore it.
No arse sitting for me my friend, I'm at the games supporting my team, you?
I want to challenge very strongly the idea that it's "a nice gesture". It isn't a nice gesture at all, it's a PR stunt. They are trying to bolster their damaged reputation by buying people off: Season ticket holders, who they know will be softer targets than lapsed attendees. This is the regime that has torn our club apart. They traded decent players for useless wannabes. They lied to fans. They drove people away. What they are doing now is the equivalent of giving your loved one a bunch of flowers after you've cheated on them. It stinks. It's just a manipulative ploy to try and fool people. And all for what? The cost of a scarf and a calendar, well whoopee do.
For those who think it's about building bridges, here's an idea. If they want to build bridges they should start by apologising. They should then produce a list of errors and formulate plans to ensure that they do not repeat them. They will not do that, because they are in denial about whose fault this mess is.
And as for all this Back the The Valley nonsense, it's sickening. They are not interested in that at all. We have an owner who has stated that competitive football is not important and a CEO who has said she does not care for the history of the club. They are piggy packing on this anniversary to try and gain brownie points. As @charltonkeston so eloquently put it, the PR company "are using some of my [our] best memories and associating them with the current vermin". Wake up, people. How many extra chances do this lot need?
But Stig, I think you're missing the point. It comes in a nice red box! - Oh alright then, I take it back they must be genuinely decent people who have learnt the error of their ways and are committed to change. Viva Duchatelet. Viva Meire. Viva The Regime.
Aaah bless, you didn't get one then?
Oh great. Another smart arse quip from somebody who would rather sit on their arse and whistle Dixie whilst our saviours drive our support away in droves. Everything's great ennit, if you ignore it.
No arse sitting for me my friend, I'm at the games supporting my team, you?
Comments
How apt.
You must be a bundle of laughs Christmas morning. 'What's the Paco Rabanne for, do you think I stink'.
Edit: If my post has to be edited by the mods I'd rather it was deleted, as any offence was intended.
I note that PR Tom has taken Daisy's crayons away too. The opening message is signed anonymously 'Charlton Athletic Football Club'. It's a sad state of affairs when the leader of the organisation can't be permitted to welcome the fans back to a new season.
WTF is the handy, pocket-sized hexagonal hospitality brochure about? Why go to the pointless additional production expense? I'd rather they spent what little money they had on players than on gimmicky nonsense like that.
We were supposed to do that together, @Arsenetatters !
There are far bigger things in life to waste your energy on than a marketing ploy at Charlton.
The difference between this and Christmas, Sid, is that I get my Christmas presents from people who love me. Sometimes they get me great presents, sometimes they don't. But I always know that it's given in exactly the right spirit and I am always appreciative no matter what I get. Unless it's Paco Rabanne!
Why on earth would you think your post might be edited?
They haven't kept the profits, because they have lent us more than £50M.
They have investigated options to improve revenue at The Valley, but haven't actioned anything.
They will never win back my trust and I don't support them.
I support Charlton. I go to watch our team.
They could be here in another 5 years, so if you gave up 3 years ago and don't intend going until they've sold up, you've basically given up supporting Charlton (for the most part).
I asked Meire at the Trust meeting in April if she truly realised why half the fans had stopped attending and to my surprise, she said yes, it is because of us, the owner and myself.
So whilst, this was not an apology, I did feel for the first time, that this was a genuine admission of fault and regret.
I sensed for the first time, that the denials of liability, had finally been dropped for an acceptance of it. See my post above about Meire admitting whose fault it is, so apologies, but you are wrong.
Not saying I agreed mind: )