And the whole good guy/bad guy analogy is deeply flawed. Whilst the debate is kept at the immature level, something the NRA strives to do, then it will never be resolved. To a certain extent there is not such thing as a good guy. Anybody (as the US police constantly show) can become a "bad guy", often without warning. The gun is the perfect storm of too much power and too much simplicity. Anybody can fire a gun and kill from a nice safe distance. A momentary flare of anger, that would pass in an unarmed person, can too easily become another needless death.
Every drunken fight outside a pub, that in this country often ends in nothing more than a few bruises, is a potential deadly encounter in the US. The only surprise about those figures above is it's not more, as the power of life and death is handed out without any due thought to if the person is ready for that responsibility, and with no training on how to use that weapon and how to react to others using them.
That is the worst part about the NRA, the may preach the constitution and rights, but they won't even back basic training before being allowed to own a deadly weapon.
From the perspective of the average "out of town" American, who have grown up with guns, its not flawed. Its how they see it whether facts back it up or not
Just imagine the carnage on a Saturday night in the UK if everyone was armed.....
Gun Violence Archive, a website that tracks incidents and crimes involving guns across the US, has said that Sunday nights attack was the 273rd mass shooting in America this year. They define a 'mass shooting' as four or more people being shot at the same time or location. Shocking statistic.
Thoughts to all who lost their lives and their loved ones.
Only 1,518 out of 46,595 incidents were acts of self defence
And the whole good guy/bad guy analogy is deeply flawed. Whilst the debate is kept at the immature level, something the NRA strives to do, then it will never be resolved. To a certain extent there is not such thing as a good guy. Anybody (as the US police constantly show) can become a "bad guy", often without warning. The gun is the perfect storm of too much power and too much simplicity. Anybody can fire a gun and kill from a nice safe distance. A momentary flare of anger, that would pass in an unarmed person, can too easily become another needless death.
Every drunken fight outside a pub, that in this country often ends in nothing more than a few bruises, is a potential deadly encounter in the US. The only surprise about those figures above is it's not more, as the power of life and death is handed out without any due thought to if the person is ready for that responsibility, and with no training on how to use that weapon and how to react to others using them.
That is the worst part about the NRA, the may preach the constitution and rights, but they won't even back basic training before being allowed to own a deadly weapon.
From the perspective of the average "out of town" American, who have grown up with guns, its not flawed. Its how they see it whether facts back it up or not
Just imagine the carnage on a Saturday night in the UK if everyone was armed.....
There are people who have permitted shotguns / rifles / handguns around London and the Home Counties. But thats not my point.
Glorifying guns etc is part of the problem - I've only mentioned him in response to someone else's post and I certainly wouldn't waste my time following a jerk like him.
I get pissed off with the infantile attitude towards guns and the casual attitude towards violence.
really?, if this turns out to be a ( which im assuming ) terrorist attack it has sweet fa to do with call of duty or gloryfying guns, if you dont follow him how do you know what he does in his time.
How can this not be a terrorist attack. White people commit terrorism too.
Mass murder is not the same as political or religious terrorism, or every murder would have to be terroristic
How can this not be defined as terrorism?
Nevada State law definition: act of terrorism means any act that involves the use or attempted use of sabotage, coercion or violence which is intended to cause great bodily harm or death to the general population. That looks pretty clear cut.
That is one state's legal definition. If this guy was motivated by personal grievance or just crazy, then it is a terrible tragedy for all the victoms, but it is over now he is dead. But If he was part of some general movement against society, then the tragedy is even worse and we have even more to fear as there may be more to come.
It's one state's definition. But it's important because that's the state in which it was perpetrated.
Who knows what motivated him? (There will be lots of conjecture about this until the facfs come out, and possibly beyond that too). Or whether he acted entirely alone? (It's hard to imagine someone acquiring, stockpiling and transporting that much ammunition and so many guns without anyone else's knowledge). But if there's any kind of motivation that is intelligible to the average American, it's easy to see how it might inspire others to act in the same way.
And, what's worse than an intelligible motive is the fact he set a macabre record. Others might simply be motivated to beat the record.
Even without a motive or without copy-cat record chasers, America has an enormous, deep-seated and probably insoluble problem. Because there's another chilling statistic. It's likely that, by tomorrow night, there will have been more gun murders this week in the United States outside Law Vegas than inside it.
Let me tell you a story. The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. "Wouldn't you say," she asked, "that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?" No, I said, I wouldn't say that. "But what about 'Basketball Diaries'?" she asked. "Doesn't that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?" The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it's unlikely the Columbine killers saw it.
The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. "Events like this," I said, "if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn't have messed with me. I'll go out in a blaze of glory."
In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of "explaining" them. I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy.
They way news channels report these things have to change. If they have turned into such monsters they cannot see for themselves, government has to intervene.
No way should anyone have access to weapons that can do that sort of damage and it not be known by the authorities thisvis a prime example of why they should change their laws
The last time I was admitted to a psychiatric hospital there was a huge sign listing what you couldn't bring in. Top of the list was GUNS. Oh bugger I thought.
watching C4 news. On average there are 33,000 gun deaths per annum in the USA.
some bloke (didn't get his name but was pro gun lobby) said that guns save lives. When questioned he said why should automatic weapons be banned because then the bloke could have been hurling grenade or using bombs instead.
Sometimes I think America deserves Trump. Sorry if this is not PC on a day like this but sometimes thinks have to be said.
Fully automatic weapons are illegal in all U.S. states.
Not according to this article following the attack in The Independent this evening:
Is there a limit on what kind of guns you can buy?
Fully automatic weapons are illegal across the US, unless they were purchased and registered prior to 1986. Semi-automatic weapons, however, are legal in Nevada. Automatic weapons fire until the ammunition is used up; semi-automatic weapons require the trigger to be pulled for each shot.
There is no limit on magazine capacity, or the number of bullets a gun can hold, in Nevada.
The NRA is so powerful in the states it's scary. They hold so much political and business swing, the US needs a real revolution (and subsequent pain no doubt) to rid them of the cancer that is the NRA.
Think the automatic/semi-automatic conversation is immaterial. The fact the guy managed to accumulate 8 or more guns (probably most legally) is where the US is screwed. So many salivate over Dan Bilzerian firing off his ridiculous arsenal of guns on Instagram. I once had to the temerity to post what a prat i thought he was for glorifying his guns and the abuse I got back from yanks was incredible. You'd have thought I'd taken a massive dump on the stars and stripes.
Not sure we'll ever know the reason for why another lunatic has committed yet another atrocity.
RIP to those whose lives have been lost so needlessly and hope those injured recover well.
Haven't seen it elsewhere yet, but just had a random Periscope notification which has someone filming another incident at USC Los Angeles. Hoping there's nothing to this.
And the whole good guy/bad guy analogy is deeply flawed. Whilst the debate is kept at the immature level, something the NRA strives to do, then it will never be resolved. To a certain extent there is not such thing as a good guy. Anybody (as the US police constantly show) can become a "bad guy", often without warning. The gun is the perfect storm of too much power and too much simplicity. Anybody can fire a gun and kill from a nice safe distance. A momentary flare of anger, that would pass in an unarmed person, can too easily become another needless death.
Every drunken fight outside a pub, that in this country often ends in nothing more than a few bruises, is a potential deadly encounter in the US. The only surprise about those figures above is it's not more, as the power of life and death is handed out without any due thought to if the person is ready for that responsibility, and with no training on how to use that weapon and how to react to others using them.
That is the worst part about the NRA, the may preach the constitution and rights, but they won't even back basic training before being allowed to own a deadly weapon.
From the perspective of the average "out of town" American, who have grown up with guns, its not flawed. Its how they see it whether facts back it up or not
Just imagine the carnage on a Saturday night in the UK if everyone was armed.....
There are people who have permitted shotguns / rifles / handguns around London and the Home Counties. But thats not my point.
I think you’ll find that all handguns are banned. Members of shooting clubs can buy rifles but you cannot have a licence for a handgun unless it’s been modified to be too long to conceal it.
Obviously this rule doesn’t apply to the Police and the millatry but the public can’t buy a concealable hand gun.
You also can't help but feel sorry for the family of the killer. They've lost someone too but also have the confusion and guilt of what their relative has done, if as described, they had no idea of what he was going to do.
You also can't help but feel sorry for the family of the killer. They've lost someone too but also have the confusion and guilt of what their relative has done, if as described, they had no idea of what he was going to do.
That interview with the killer's brother was as honest as any. He seemed in total shock and confusion.
Glorifying guns etc is part of the problem - I've only mentioned him in response to someone else's post and I certainly wouldn't waste my time following a jerk like him.
I get pissed off with the infantile attitude towards guns and the casual attitude towards violence.
really?, if this turns out to be a ( which im assuming ) terrorist attack it has sweet fa to do with call of duty or gloryfying guns, if you dont follow him how do you know what he does in his time.
How can this not be a terrorist attack. White people commit terrorism too.
No clear idealogical or religious motive seems to have been identified at this stage so I'd say there is just as much chance of plain psychopathy as opposed to terrorism mate
I'm surer now than I was earlier that this is the case. A 64 year retired accountant called Stephen. Completely clean record with police, no strong political or religious views, liked a gamble, known by people as a nice guy, if a little odd.
No one who met him seems to have the slightest idea why he would do this.
He had 19 guns including two on tripods and long range scopes and had hired two rooms so that he could increase his range of fire.
Some reports I’ve read have witnesses saying they heard shouts from a very agitated man (the shooter I guess) saying ‘turn that noise down’ shortly before the shooting started. That would suggest a person suffering a psychological breakdown and reaching their breaking point. However that’s pretty much discredited if he had that haul with him and that level of planning. It seems to me he knew what he was going to do but it’s possible we’ll never know why.
It sounds like at least one other person (the lady who pushed to the front telling people they were going to die tonight) knew what was going to occur which suggests there was a level of planning and possible assistance.
Could it be related to some strange cult possibly!? There doesn't appear to be any obvious motives at this early stage, which makes it feel all the more meaningless and tragic.
If they can see the killing of the children at Sandy Hook and still not act then there's no hope.
Sadly this is true.
These things don't surprise me any more. Frankly, they rarely effect me. This is obviously the worst of an already awful epidemic, but nothing is going to change. I feel for the families of the victims. I feel for many who must still be fighting for their lives. But, because of the choice of a select, monied few in this country, gun control and making incidents like this harder is currently impossible.
Comments
Who knows what motivated him? (There will be lots of conjecture about this until the facfs come out, and possibly beyond that too). Or whether he acted entirely alone? (It's hard to imagine someone acquiring, stockpiling and transporting that much ammunition and so many guns without anyone else's knowledge). But if there's any kind of motivation that is intelligible to the average American, it's easy to see how it might inspire others to act in the same way.
And, what's worse than an intelligible motive is the fact he set a macabre record. Others might simply be motivated to beat the record.
Even without a motive or without copy-cat record chasers, America has an enormous, deep-seated and probably insoluble problem. Because there's another chilling statistic. It's likely that, by tomorrow night, there will have been more gun murders this week in the United States outside Law Vegas than inside it.
No way should anyone have access to weapons that can do that sort of damage and it not be known by the authorities thisvis a prime example of why they should change their laws
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41472462
some bloke (didn't get his name but was pro gun lobby) said that guns save lives. When questioned he said why should automatic weapons be banned because then the bloke could have been hurling grenade or using bombs instead.
Sometimes I think America deserves Trump. Sorry if this is not PC on a day like this but sometimes thinks have to be said.
If they can see the killing of the children at Sandy Hook and still not act then there's no hope.
Is there a limit on what kind of guns you can buy?
Fully automatic weapons are illegal across the US, unless they were purchased and registered prior to 1986. Semi-automatic weapons, however, are legal in Nevada. Automatic weapons fire until the ammunition is used up; semi-automatic weapons require the trigger to be pulled for each shot.
There is no limit on magazine capacity, or the number of bullets a gun can hold, in Nevada.
Would rather play cow boy and Indians as adults
Not sure we'll ever know the reason for why another lunatic has committed yet another atrocity.
RIP to those whose lives have been lost so needlessly and hope those injured recover well.
Obviously this rule doesn’t apply to the Police and the millatry but the public can’t buy a concealable hand gun.
You also can't help but feel sorry for the family of the killer. They've lost someone too but also have the confusion and guilt of what their relative has done, if as described, they had no idea of what he was going to do.
No one who met him seems to have the slightest idea why he would do this.
Absolute crazy
Some reports I’ve read have witnesses saying they heard shouts from a very agitated man (the shooter I guess) saying ‘turn that noise down’ shortly before the shooting started. That would suggest a person suffering a psychological breakdown and reaching their breaking point. However that’s pretty much discredited if he had that haul with him and that level of planning. It seems to me he knew what he was going to do but it’s possible we’ll never know why.
Could it be related to some strange cult possibly!? There doesn't appear to be any obvious motives at this early stage, which makes it feel all the more meaningless and tragic.
These things don't surprise me any more. Frankly, they rarely effect me. This is obviously the worst of an already awful epidemic, but nothing is going to change. I feel for the families of the victims. I feel for many who must still be fighting for their lives. But, because of the choice of a select, monied few in this country, gun control and making incidents like this harder is currently impossible.