Look, the ECB has made it's bed and now have to lie in it. We've taken the 12 pieces of white ball and the game has changed. Just look at this round of CC matches after the Blast, how many counties failed to make 300 in their first innings? As for "longer game" well Test cricket now very rarely fills 4 days and not many innings last 100 overs. Do you think he'd still not want to open if Ed Smith offered him the chance? He's a bright talented lad and who's to say he couldn't adapt? Just Mr Statto? We have serious issues with our top order and we need to try something.
I agree there has been a move to limited overs cricket and it has cost test cricket. Picking Roy out of position isn't the solution.
Of course he would jump at the chance if offered. So would I but it doesn't make me right to open the batting for England ffs! Call it Mr Statto all you want to you really want someone opening the batting who did it for a season and a half and averaged 8?? That's preposterous!
Yes we have a problem at the top of the order. The problem is that none of our top order have the patience to play a proper test innings they all want to go hard at the ball and play it like a one day game. They all get out playing shots they shouldn't be playing to balls they shouldn't be playing at. You can do that at 5/6/7 if you are coming in after a platform has been set but we have no one capable of the mental strength to play the patient innings and set the platform. I'm a huge fan of Roy but opening with him is only going to compound the issue not solve it. I am certain he would do well at 6 for England but at the moment we have a whole load of these players and none that are suited to 1-4.
Tres wasn't "opening ever game" he was batting at six/seven and bowling medium pace. Sommerset saw him as a batting all rounder. Fletcher watched him face a spell from Kallis, who was swinging it both ways, at pace, when he was a county coach.
He marked his name down and the rest is history.
He was opening for Somerset long before he was picked for England. It wasn't Fletch that turned him into an opener he already was one. Part time Keeping was also his second string at the time as well. He used to do it in one day games for them.
Tres had a first class average in the 30s iirc when he was asked to open in test match cricket for England. He had already played Odi as an opener. As the Roy argument that is currently erupting proves proves it isn't a like for like. The reason Fletcher had so much faith in him was the Kallis spell....
Look, the ECB has made it's bed and now have to lie in it. We've taken the 12 pieces of white ball and the game has changed. Just look at this round of CC matches after the Blast, how many counties failed to make 300 in their first innings? As for "longer game" well Test cricket now very rarely fills 4 days and not many innings last 100 overs. Do you think he'd still not want to open if Ed Smith offered him the chance? He's a bright talented lad and who's to say he couldn't adapt? Just Mr Statto? We have serious issues with our top order and we need to try something.
I agree there has been a move to limited overs cricket and it has cost test cricket. Picking Roy out of position isn't the solution.
Of course he would jump at the chance if offered. So would I but it doesn't make me right to open the batting for England ffs! Call it Mr Statto all you want to you really want someone opening the batting who did it for a season and a half and averaged 8?? That's preposterous!
Yes we have a problem at the top of the order. The problem is that none of our top order have the patience to play a proper test innings they all want to go hard at the ball and play it like a one day game. They all get out playing shots they shouldn't be playing to balls they shouldn't be playing at. You can do that at 5/6/7 if you are coming in after a platform has been set but we have no one capable of the mental strength to play the patient innings and set the platform. I'm a huge fan of Roy but opening with him is only going to compound the issue not solve it. I am certain he would do well at 6 for England but at the moment we have a whole load of these players and none that are suited to 1-4.
Tres wasn't "opening ever game" he was batting at six/seven and bowling medium pace. Sommerset saw him as a batting all rounder. Fletcher watched him face a spell from Kallis, who was swinging it both ways, at pace, when he was a county coach.
He marked his name down and the rest is history.
He was opening for Somerset long before he was picked for England. It wasn't Fletch that turned him into an opener he already was one. Part time Keeping was also his second string at the time as well. He used to do it in one day games for them.
Tres had a first class average in the 30s iirc when he was asked to open in test match cricket for England. He had already played Odi as an opener. As the Roy argument that is currently erupting proves proves it isn't a like for like. The reason Fletcher had so much faith in him was the Kallis spell....
I think I'm agreeing with you mate. Fletcher saw something in Tres that was greater than his record (stemming from the Kallis spell) so picked him for England. Roy may well be greater than his FC record suggests - I think so - but it does not mean he is fit to open.
I wouldn't rush to retire Cook... We haven't even replaced Strauss yet
I agree, my problem with Cook is he gives me the impression he checked out when he jacked in the captaincy. I will say him staying with the squad is he is giving the manager a chance to gently blood a replacement however how many opening partners has he had in the last 3 years? We absolutely haven't replaced Strauss
Cook's lack of runs has been masked by the lack of runs at the other end. IF a new opener had come in and started scoring heavily, then Cook would be under more pressure for his place
Look, the ECB has made it's bed and now have to lie in it. We've taken the 12 pieces of white ball and the game has changed. Just look at this round of CC matches after the Blast, how many counties failed to make 300 in their first innings? As for "longer game" well Test cricket now very rarely fills 4 days and not many innings last 100 overs. Do you think he'd still not want to open if Ed Smith offered him the chance? He's a bright talented lad and who's to say he couldn't adapt? Just Mr Statto? We have serious issues with our top order and we need to try something.
I agree there has been a move to limited overs cricket and it has cost test cricket. Picking Roy out of position isn't the solution.
Of course he would jump at the chance if offered. So would I but it doesn't make me right to open the batting for England ffs! Call it Mr Statto all you want to you really want someone opening the batting who did it for a season and a half and averaged 8?? That's preposterous!
Yes we have a problem at the top of the order. The problem is that none of our top order have the patience to play a proper test innings they all want to go hard at the ball and play it like a one day game. They all get out playing shots they shouldn't be playing to balls they shouldn't be playing at. You can do that at 5/6/7 if you are coming in after a platform has been set but we have no one capable of the mental strength to play the patient innings and set the platform. I'm a huge fan of Roy but opening with him is only going to compound the issue not solve it. I am certain he would do well at 6 for England but at the moment we have a whole load of these players and none that are suited to 1-4.
Tres wasn't "opening ever game" he was batting at six/seven and bowling medium pace. Sommerset saw him as a batting all rounder. Fletcher watched him face a spell from Kallis, who was swinging it both ways, at pace, when he was a county coach.
He marked his name down and the rest is history.
He was opening for Somerset long before he was picked for England. It wasn't Fletch that turned him into an opener he already was one. Part time Keeping was also his second string at the time as well. He used to do it in one day games for them.
I didn't call you Mr Statto, I was referring to Stats as a rule. I asked the question who is to say he couldn't adapt, "who" needed a name. I really don't think we have to dismiss ideas without trying them. It wouldn't ruin his game.
Bloody Bob Willis just called for Bell's return on Sky's The Debate. I was a big fan of Bell and from 2009-2014 he was terrific but his time has gone and it would be a pointless backward step.
Bloody Bob Willis just called for Bell's return on Sky's The Debate. I was a big fan of Bell and from 2009-2014 he was terrific but his time has gone and it would be a pointless backward step.
Short term fix to protect Pope imo, rather that than vince or Malan again.
A month or so ago I would have been against the recall of Ian Bell as well, because as a general rule of thumb I believe that you need to put faith in the young players, and let them make the most of their opportunity.
However our batting has been so atrocious for such an extended period, then in this instance I think we need to move away from having so many all-rounders, and bring back an experienced middle order player that can help settle things down a little.
The real surprise is that we are surprised that this keep happening, leaving out Cook (45), Root (52) and Pope (only two knocks), the averages of the English top eight are:
Those are not the numbers of teams that are going to be posting big totals on a regular basis, and you have to say that if Stokes is averaging 34 after 43 test matches, then he may need to move down to seven and we bring in an old campaigner like Bell at Four, move Pope to five, Bairstow or Buttler to six, and see how we go with that line up.
Cook is a huge worry, as he seems to be doing a bit of a Ricky Ponting, and staying on for a little too long after he has relinquished the captaincy, and risks damaging his legacy as a result.
Of course the problem is that Jennings at the other end isn’t doing it either, so unless either of them get a ton here, then we may need to make some changes before the 4th test.
A month or so ago I would have been against the recall of Ian Bell as well, because as a general rule of thumb I believe that you need to put faith in the young players, and let them make the most of their opportunity.
However our batting has been so atrocious for such an extended period, then in this instance I think we need to move away from having so many all-rounders, and bring back an experienced middle order player that can help settle things down a little.
The real surprise is that we are surprised that this keep happening, leaving out Cook (45), Root (52) and Pope (only two knocks), the averages of the English top eight are:
Those are not the numbers of teams that are going to be posting big totals on a regular basis, and you have to say that if Stokes is averaging 34 after 43 test matches, then he may need to move down to seven and we bring in an old campaigner like Bell at Four, move Pope to five, Bairstow or Buttler to six, and see how we go with that line up.
Cook is a huge worry, as he seems to be doing a bit of a Ricky Ponting, and staying on for a little too long after he has relinquished the captaincy, and risks damaging his legacy as a result.
Of course the problem is that Jennings at the other end isn’t doing it either, so unless either of them get a ton here, then we may need to make some changes before the 4th test.
We have a team of number 6s and 7s. Stokes, Bairstow, Buttler, Woakes and indeed Moeen Ali.
Bairstow to me at 5 is too high for someone who keeps as well, Matt Prior who averaged 40 in Tests regularly came it at Number 7. Indeed during the 2010/11 Ashes series we played 6 batsmen, Prior at 7 and just 4 bowlers as Swann was able to hold one end
A month or so ago I would have been against the recall of Ian Bell as well, because as a general rule of thumb I believe that you need to put faith in the young players, and let them make the most of their opportunity.
However our batting has been so atrocious for such an extended period, then in this instance I think we need to move away from having so many all-rounders, and bring back an experienced middle order player that can help settle things down a little.
The real surprise is that we are surprised that this keep happening, leaving out Cook (45), Root (52) and Pope (only two knocks), the averages of the English top eight are:
Those are not the numbers of teams that are going to be posting big totals on a regular basis, and you have to say that if Stokes is averaging 34 after 43 test matches, then he may need to move down to seven and we bring in an old campaigner like Bell at Four, move Pope to five, Bairstow or Buttler to six, and see how we go with that line up.
Cook is a huge worry, as he seems to be doing a bit of a Ricky Ponting, and staying on for a little too long after he has relinquished the captaincy, and risks damaging his legacy as a result.
Of course the problem is that Jennings at the other end isn’t doing it either, so unless either of them get a ton here, then we may need to make some changes before the 4th test.
We have a team of number 6s and 7s. Stokes, Bairstow, Buttler, Woakes and indeed Moeen Ali.
Bairstow to me at 5 is too high for someone who keeps as well, Matt Prior who averaged 40 in Tests regularly came it at Number 7. Indeed during the 2010/11 Ashes series we played 6 batsmen, Prior at 7 and just 4 bowlers as Swann was able to hold one end
Matt Prior, when he came into the team, was an average wicket keeper, but he worked hard and became much better, and as you say average of 40 is very good
my missus' brother passed away on wednesday after a lifelong disease. This hits me hard, it makes me incredibly happy patrick got to say that final goodbye and that he loved his father.
Unfortunately Vaughn says he understands Jennings has been told he is in for the whole series. So at the Oval when we are 3-1 up he'll score a meaningless 2nd innings century and go to Sri Lanka. Roy could not do any worse.
In the last year Cook has batted 25 times in Tests. He has had one big score in that time (243 in the drawn Boxing Day Test) and his 2nd best in that time is 70 against Pakistan - which is his only 50 in his last 14 innings.
It is only his stubbornness/selfishness (which I mean in the most positive of ways because it is that contributed to him being the great batsman he was) and the lack of obvious openers that is keeping him in the side.
Has he got some dirt on the selectors or something?
His Dad was the South African coach, he went to a big private school there and has a first class average of 34.
He should be given a chance based on one of those facts. Unfortunately, cricket from age group cricket through to the international stage tends to be influenced by the other two.
Comments
However our batting has been so atrocious for such an extended period, then in this instance I think we need to move away from having so many all-rounders, and bring back an experienced middle order player that can help settle things down a little.
The real surprise is that we are surprised that this keep happening, leaving out Cook (45), Root (52) and Pope (only two knocks), the averages of the English top eight are:
Jennings - 24
Stokes - 34
Bairtsow - 39
Buttler - 32
Woakes - 32
Those are not the numbers of teams that are going to be posting big totals on a regular basis, and you have to say that if Stokes is averaging 34 after 43 test matches, then he may need to move down to seven and we bring in an old campaigner like Bell at Four, move Pope to five, Bairstow or Buttler to six, and see how we go with that line up.
Cook is a huge worry, as he seems to be doing a bit of a Ricky Ponting, and staying on for a little too long after he has relinquished the captaincy, and risks damaging his legacy as a result.
Of course the problem is that Jennings at the other end isn’t doing it either, so unless either of them get a ton here, then we may need to make some changes before the 4th test.
Bairstow to me at 5 is too high for someone who keeps as well, Matt Prior who averaged 40 in Tests regularly came it at Number 7. Indeed during the 2010/11 Ashes series we played 6 batsmen, Prior at 7 and just 4 bowlers as Swann was able to hold one end
Glad you've put it up in an easier format to listen to though, it's brilliant.
Jason Roy opening in tests. Hahaha.
Roy could not do any worse.
Botham says: Dillee bowled me an over like that once. He came down and said to me "Beefy, you hold the thing still and I'll aim at it".
Hahaha.
Has he got some dirt on the selectors or something?
It is only his stubbornness/selfishness (which I mean in the most positive of ways because it is that contributed to him being the great batsman he was) and the lack of obvious openers that is keeping him in the side.
You see one of them tell the other that they're on screen, and then they stop talking haha.
He should be given a chance based on one of those facts. Unfortunately, cricket from age group cricket through to the international stage tends to be influenced by the other two.