Another possibilty that hasnt been explored is to look at Rashids value over the 3 tests. I know AA might think otherwise but i think he's played a bit part in all 3 Tests - maybe time to get him out, get Sam in, et voila...variety plus increased strength in batting, and we just bomb them with 5 'quicks'
7 wickets (including a couple of vital ones such as Kohli who he has got out 4 times in Tests) @ 26.71 says he is a big part of the team.
7 wickets over 3 tests is hardly a great return for a front line bowler imo. He might have got Kohli a few times, but from what i recall, they were when he was in his hundreds or nearby.
Another left field thought is that if we are going to play on 'green' wickets then maybe we only need 4 bowlers + Root. Therefore, if we want variety and include Sam, and assume Stokes is a shoe-in, then the only other possible option is to drop Broad. Therefore we have 4 bowlers of Anderson,Woakes,Sam,Stokes + Root. #justathought
Another possibilty that hasnt been explored is to look at Rashids value over the 3 tests. I know AA might think otherwise but i think he's played a bit part in all 3 Tests - maybe time to get him out, get Sam in, et voila...variety plus increased strength in batting, and we just bomb them with 5 'quicks'
7 wickets (including a couple of vital ones such as Kohli who he has got out 4 times in Tests) @ 26.71 says he is a big part of the team.
7 wickets over 3 tests is hardly a great return for a front line bowler imo. He might have got Kohli a few times, but from what i recall, they were when he was in his hundreds or nearby.
And Sharma, the vital 9th wicket in the 1st Test?
If 4 "quickies" can't do the job then 5 probably won't either as they offer nothing different. Rashid does and 7 wickets from 48 overs is better than 8 from 68 (Stokes) and 10 from 91 (Broad).
Another possibilty that hasnt been explored is to look at Rashids value over the 3 tests. I know AA might think otherwise but i think he's played a bit part in all 3 Tests - maybe time to get him out, get Sam in, et voila...variety plus increased strength in batting, and we just bomb them with 5 'quicks'
7 wickets (including a couple of vital ones such as Kohli who he has got out 4 times in Tests) @ 26.71 says he is a big part of the team.
7 wickets over 3 tests is hardly a great return for a front line bowler imo. He might have got Kohli a few times, but from what i recall, they were when he was in his hundreds or nearby.
And Sharma, the vital 9th wicket in the 1st Test?
If 4 "quickies" can't do the job then 5 probably won't either as they offer nothing different. Rashid does and 7 wickets from 48 overs is better than 8 from 68 (Stokes) and 10 from 91 (Broad).
One 'vital' 9th wicket over 6 innings isnt good enough for me. To me, he's a non-deliverer who we could do better with replacing with maybe a batsman- in this situation.Stokes has only played 2 Tests.
I'm not sure what Southampton is like, but looking at the averages Fidel Edwards is by far their best first class bowler, which doesn't suggest a pitch that turns.
Nah. I'd have Bairstow in for Pope who needs a bit more time to develop. I would bring in another opener. Robson/Gubbins. We need a proper top 3 to allow our middle order to thrive.
Hmm it's an intresting team dilemma. On the basis that they won't drop butler, Jennings, pope or rashid for crebility/political reasons. And that JB isn't fit I would go with
Cook Jennings Root Bell Pope Stokes Butler (w) Woakes Curran Rashid Anderson
Woakes is a better new ball bowler than Broad 7/10 times, in the other 3 Broad would take a Micheal!
Bell is a very short term pick, but if you put another inexperienced player in the top 5 you are inviting a ton of pressure. Plus he has a great record against India in England.
If butler is going to play, batting at 7 or 8, he needs to keep.
My thinking would be if we win at Southampton I would rest Jimmy for the oval.
Here we have it people. Riv finally admits he knows nothing about cricket.
Well I'm not alone in this. Roy is, like many players these days, pigeonholed. For goodness sake he can hardly do any worse than some we have tried over the past few years. If you remember, and you were probably too young, Duncan Fletcher raised a lot of eyebrows when he picked Trescothick. Many said he didn't have the game for Test cricket but he did pretty ok didn't he? Not saying Roy should bat like he does in an ODI but some positive batting as a foil to a Cook like player can work. Gooch and Boycott in the late 70's early 80's were a great opening pair. The young Gooch was nothing like the turgid bore he became in his latter days. His 123 v West Indies at Lords 1980 was the most fantastic counter attacking innings I've seen by an England player, and that was the WI at their peak. As for Cook.....well I wish he would retire.
I think he's worth a place in the side, maybe not opening but at 4 or 5 definitely
I was thinking in the Warner mould.
I haven't seen enough of him with a red ball, in fact I've only looked at his numbers but I've seen him in the flesh carry Surrey in t20 in a way which is more sensible than your average t20 hit 6 or get out type of player.
All youngsters come through t20 now and thankfully it shows in tests with the fielding and more adventurous batting
So, the main criticism of the side is the fact that the batsmen cannot apply themselves and dig in against a moving red ball. And Jason Roy is meant to fix that? Riiiiiiight.
As a Surrey fan I am a huge supporter of Jason Roy . But but but He is a middle order batsman in the longer version of the game and it is ridiculous to even think he could open in a five day test.
Here we have it people. Riv finally admits he knows nothing about cricket.
Well I'm not alone in this. Roy is, like many players these days, pigeonholed. For goodness sake he can hardly do any worse than some we have tried over the past few years. If you remember, and you were probably too young, Duncan Fletcher raised a lot of eyebrows when he picked Trescothick. Many said he didn't have the game for Test cricket but he did pretty ok didn't he? Not saying Roy should bat like he does in an ODI but some positive batting as a foil to a Cook like player can work. Gooch and Boycott in the late 70's early 80's were a great opening pair. The young Gooch was nothing like the turgid bore he became in his latter days. His 123 v West Indies at Lords 1980 was the most fantastic counter attacking innings I've seen by an England player, and that was the WI at their peak. As for Cook.....well I wish he would retire.
For goodness sake back at you.
The Tres situation was different. His county record was similar to Roy's but he was opening evey game. He had enough technique to open and Fletch saw it in him that he could make the step up. The one day game has moved on so far in the last 10 years. It will be very rare to have a player open in both formats now.
Let's look at Roy. He was made to open when he didn't want to for a year and a half under Crickets version of Karl Robinson (Chris Adams). He averaged 8 (yes EIGHT) in that time. His average in the middle order is well over 40 which pushes his overall average to the high 30s. He's a very good middle order player and one day opener. Never an opener in the longer format.
Look, the ECB has made it's bed and now have to lie in it. We've taken the 12 pieces of white ball and the game has changed. Just look at this round of CC matches after the Blast, how many counties failed to make 300 in their first innings? As for "longer game" well Test cricket now very rarely fills 4 days and not many innings last 100 overs. Do you think he'd still not want to open if Ed Smith offered him the chance? He's a bright talented lad and who's to say he couldn't adapt? Just Mr Statto? We have serious issues with our top order and we need to try something.
Tres wasn't "opening ever game" he was batting at six/seven and bowling medium pace. Sommerset saw him as a batting all rounder. Fletcher watched him face a spell from Kallis, who was swinging it both ways, at pace, when he was a county coach.
Oh and while I am here if we wanted a Gayle/Warner opener we should have backed Hales.
That's a fair argument
Like I said, I think there is space for Jason Roy in the middle. The players that hang around at international level have the mindset for it more so than swashbuckling county pedigree.
I wouldn't rush to retire Cook... We haven't even replaced Strauss yet
I agree, my problem with Cook is he gives me the impression he checked out when he jacked in the captaincy. I will say him staying with the squad is he is giving the manager a chance to gently blood a replacement however how many opening partners has he had in the last 3 years? We absolutely haven't replaced Strauss
One player that it really is sad to see the demise of is Haseeb Hameed.
Averaging almost 44 in the 2016 tour of India during which he had to be sent home for surgery on his hand. His form rapidly deteriorated so much so that this season he has managed just 131 runs from 14 innings in the CC at an average of just 9.36.
His issues are almost certainly as much psychological as they are technical and it cannot have helped that he subsequently broke his hand again. Form is temporary and class permanent as they say and one can only hope that this is the case for him.
Look, the ECB has made it's bed and now have to lie in it. We've taken the 12 pieces of white ball and the game has changed. Just look at this round of CC matches after the Blast, how many counties failed to make 300 in their first innings? As for "longer game" well Test cricket now very rarely fills 4 days and not many innings last 100 overs. Do you think he'd still not want to open if Ed Smith offered him the chance? He's a bright talented lad and who's to say he couldn't adapt? Just Mr Statto? We have serious issues with our top order and we need to try something.
I agree there has been a move to limited overs cricket and it has cost test cricket. Picking Roy out of position isn't the solution.
Of course he would jump at the chance if offered. So would I but it doesn't make me right to open the batting for England ffs! Call it Mr Statto all you want to you really want someone opening the batting who did it for a season and a half and averaged 8?? That's preposterous!
Yes we have a problem at the top of the order. The problem is that none of our top order have the patience to play a proper test innings they all want to go hard at the ball and play it like a one day game. They all get out playing shots they shouldn't be playing to balls they shouldn't be playing at. You can do that at 5/6/7 if you are coming in after a platform has been set but we have no one capable of the mental strength to play the patient innings and set the platform. I'm a huge fan of Roy but opening with him is only going to compound the issue not solve it. I am certain he would do well at 6 for England but at the moment we have a whole load of these players and none that are suited to 1-4.
Tres wasn't "opening ever game" he was batting at six/seven and bowling medium pace. Sommerset saw him as a batting all rounder. Fletcher watched him face a spell from Kallis, who was swinging it both ways, at pace, when he was a county coach.
He marked his name down and the rest is history.
He was opening for Somerset long before he was picked for England. It wasn't Fletch that turned him into an opener he already was one. Part time Keeping was also his second string at the time as well. He used to do it in one day games for them.
Comments
#justathought
If 4 "quickies" can't do the job then 5 probably won't either as they offer nothing different. Rashid does and 7 wickets from 48 overs is better than 8 from 68 (Stokes) and 10 from 91 (Broad).
Worth a listen. Fantastic.
Cook
Jennings
Root
Bell
Pope
Stokes
Butler (w)
Woakes
Curran
Rashid
Anderson
Woakes is a better new ball bowler than Broad 7/10 times, in the other 3 Broad would take a Micheal!
Bell is a very short term pick, but if you put another inexperienced player in the top 5 you are inviting a ton of pressure. Plus he has a great record against India in England.
If butler is going to play, batting at 7 or 8, he needs to keep.
My thinking would be if we win at Southampton I would rest Jimmy for the oval.
Oh I would take Bell to Sri lanker to.
As for Cook.....well I wish he would retire.
All youngsters come through t20 now and thankfully it shows in tests with the fielding and more adventurous batting
But but but
He is a middle order batsman in the longer version of the game and it is ridiculous to even think he could open in a five day test.
The Tres situation was different. His county record was similar to Roy's but he was opening evey game. He had enough technique to open and Fletch saw it in him that he could make the step up. The one day game has moved on so far in the last 10 years. It will be very rare to have a player open in both formats now.
Let's look at Roy. He was made to open when he didn't want to for a year and a half under Crickets version of Karl Robinson (Chris Adams). He averaged 8 (yes EIGHT) in that time. His average in the middle order is well over 40 which pushes his overall average to the high 30s. He's a very good middle order player and one day opener. Never an opener in the longer format.
And palarse have just gone 1 down.
He marked his name down and the rest is history.
Like I said, I think there is space for Jason Roy in the middle. The players that hang around at international level have the mindset for it more so than swashbuckling county pedigree.
Averaging almost 44 in the 2016 tour of India during which he had to be sent home for surgery on his hand. His form rapidly deteriorated so much so that this season he has managed just 131 runs from 14 innings in the CC at an average of just 9.36.
His issues are almost certainly as much psychological as they are technical and it cannot have helped that he subsequently broke his hand again. Form is temporary and class permanent as they say and one can only hope that this is the case for him.
Of course he would jump at the chance if offered. So would I but it doesn't make me right to open the batting for England ffs! Call it Mr Statto all you want to you really want someone opening the batting who did it for a season and a half and averaged 8?? That's preposterous!
Yes we have a problem at the top of the order. The problem is that none of our top order have the patience to play a proper test innings they all want to go hard at the ball and play it like a one day game. They all get out playing shots they shouldn't be playing to balls they shouldn't be playing at. You can do that at 5/6/7 if you are coming in after a platform has been set but we have no one capable of the mental strength to play the patient innings and set the platform. I'm a huge fan of Roy but opening with him is only going to compound the issue not solve it. I am certain he would do well at 6 for England but at the moment we have a whole load of these players and none that are suited to 1-4. He was opening for Somerset long before he was picked for England. It wasn't Fletch that turned him into an opener he already was one. Part time Keeping was also his second string at the time as well. He used to do it in one day games for them.
Do it the Surrey way.