Back in the day when the B20 were active in St Truiden, after a game, myself and one other member were in the long fans night club in the main stand. We got lucky and managed a conversation with RD.
Peter Varney's name came up in conversation, RD instantly became angry, saying RM had warned him that PV had 'taken funds out of the club'. With no further explanation. Remember RD making a demonstrative grabbing motion with his fist.
Have always wondered if this was the cause of the rift.
I don't believe for a moment that PV took money out / stole money from Charlton. I thought it was more of a disagreement over the methods of the Spivs in the end? @Airman Brown
In the summer of 2012, Varney, Kavanagh and Murray all agreed to resign as directors over governance issues. Murray swapped sides and instead joined in Slater’s (defensive) legal manoeuvres against Varney and Kavanagh.
I’ve no idea of the underlying issue on why they fell out but I suspect there is a strong element of ego involved.
I think Murray has harboured a degree of anger at the credit / high value placed on Varney from the successful era. In his eyes, he is someone who always put money into the club while Varney was one that had always taken money out of the club (via salary, fees and commissions). I think that is an example I heard him give once at a Q&A.
Feels like a lifetime ago now. So much shit has happened in that time.
£4m that deal cost us. £4m! Danny Murphy cost us £2.5m. I think Bent's transfer rose to £4m after add-ons. Chris Perry cost £100,000. Imagine spending a third of the summer's budget on those two. I despair.
I’ve no idea of the underlying issue on why they fell out but I suspect there is a strong element of ego involved.
I think Murray has harboured a degree of anger at the credit / high value placed on Varney from the successful era. In his eyes, he is someone who always put money into the club while Varney was one that had always taken money out of the club (via salary, fees and commissions). I think that is an example I heard him give once at a Q&A.
Yes, that is Murray’s perspective, but it’s very much informed by the view that all fans involved should be willing to work for little or nothing, which isn’t a realistic view of how most people live, even if many fans are willing and able to contribute something for nothing. If you do it as a full-time job you should be paid the going rate, as any non-fan would be.
His perspective takes no account of time, emotional commitment or opportunity cost to individuals, it’s just narrowly financial. On the other hand Murray was happy to spend the money put in by other people and ultimately fell out with them because he didn’t respect their input enough. He has no relationship with a number of them because of that, but he can’t say they took out of the club.
Back in the day when the B20 were active in St Truiden, after a game, myself and one other member were in the long fans night club in the main stand. We got lucky and managed a conversation with RD.
Peter Varney's name came up in conversation, RD instantly became angry, saying RM had warned him that PV had 'taken funds out of the club'. With no further explanation. Remember RD making a demonstrative grabbing motion with his fist.
Have always wondered if this was the cause of the rift.
Whether Murray deliberately misled Duchatelet on this or the latter misunderstood, Varney appointed a lawyer and they wrote to RD and RM requesting that they call in the police to investigate these claims, but both ignored all correspondence and both declined to repeat the allegations in writing.
There are multiple examples of Murray spreading misinformation privately and - famously, at Bromley - publicly, when he was called out by Wendy Perfect for lying about Steve Kavanagh‘s departure from the club. Murray’s behaviour stinks, but the rift goes back at least, coincidentally, to Varney intervening to prevent the 2010 Sainsbury takeover, which Murray was entertaining in his desperation. It featured Lee Amis and, allegedly, Matt Southall, as well as a convicted fraudster.
Airman, you ever thought about writing a book? (Another book, I mean.)
Feels like a lifetime ago now. So much shit has happened in that time.
£4m that deal cost us. £4m! Danny Murphy cost us £2.5m. I think Bent's transfer rose to £4m after add-ons. Chris Perry cost £100,000. Imagine spending a third of the summer's budget on those two. I despair.
Back in the day when the B20 were active in St Truiden, after a game, myself and one other member were in the long fans night club in the main stand. We got lucky and managed a conversation with RD.
Peter Varney's name came up in conversation, RD instantly became angry, saying RM had warned him that PV had 'taken funds out of the club'. With no further explanation. Remember RD making a demonstrative grabbing motion with his fist.
Have always wondered if this was the cause of the rift.
Whether Murray deliberately misled Duchatelet on this or the latter misunderstood, Varney appointed a lawyer and they wrote to RD and RM requesting that they call in the police to investigate these claims, but both ignored all correspondence and both declined to repeat the allegations in writing.
There are multiple examples of Murray spreading misinformation privately and - famously, at Bromley - publicly, when he was called out by Wendy Perfect for lying about Steve Kavanagh‘s departure from the club. Murray’s behaviour stinks, but the rift goes back at least, coincidentally, to Varney intervening to prevent the 2010 Sainsbury takeover, which Murray was entertaining in his desperation. It featured Lee Amis and, allegedly, Matt Southall, as well as a convicted fraudster.
Back in the day when the B20 were active in St Truiden, after a game, myself and one other member were in the long fans night club in the main stand. We got lucky and managed a conversation with RD.
Peter Varney's name came up in conversation, RD instantly became angry, saying RM had warned him that PV had 'taken funds out of the club'. With no further explanation. Remember RD making a demonstrative grabbing motion with his fist.
Have always wondered if this was the cause of the rift.
Whether Murray deliberately misled Duchatelet on this or the latter misunderstood, Varney appointed a lawyer and they wrote to RD and RM requesting that they call in the police to investigate these claims, but both ignored all correspondence and both declined to repeat the allegations in writing.
There are multiple examples of Murray spreading misinformation privately and - famously, at Bromley - publicly, when he was called out by Wendy Perfect for lying about Steve Kavanagh‘s departure from the club. Murray’s behaviour stinks, but the rift goes back at least, coincidentally, to Varney intervening to prevent the 2010 Sainsbury takeover, which Murray was entertaining in his desperation. It featured Lee Amis and, allegedly, Matt Southall, as well as a convicted fraudster.
So was Matt Southall around in 2010?
Yes, he hasn’t got a wiki page but I believe he was born in the mid 80’s
Back in the day when the B20 were active in St Truiden, after a game, myself and one other member were in the long fans night club in the main stand. We got lucky and managed a conversation with RD.
Peter Varney's name came up in conversation, RD instantly became angry, saying RM had warned him that PV had 'taken funds out of the club'. With no further explanation. Remember RD making a demonstrative grabbing motion with his fist.
Have always wondered if this was the cause of the rift.
Whether Murray deliberately misled Duchatelet on this or the latter misunderstood, Varney appointed a lawyer and they wrote to RD and RM requesting that they call in the police to investigate these claims, but both ignored all correspondence and both declined to repeat the allegations in writing.
There are multiple examples of Murray spreading misinformation privately and - famously, at Bromley - publicly, when he was called out by Wendy Perfect for lying about Steve Kavanagh‘s departure from the club. Murray’s behaviour stinks, but the rift goes back at least, coincidentally, to Varney intervening to prevent the 2010 Sainsbury takeover, which Murray was entertaining in his desperation. It featured Lee Amis and, allegedly, Matt Southall, as well as a convicted fraudster.
Back in the day when the B20 were active in St Truiden, after a game, myself and one other member were in the long fans night club in the main stand. We got lucky and managed a conversation with RD.
Peter Varney's name came up in conversation, RD instantly became angry, saying RM had warned him that PV had 'taken funds out of the club'. With no further explanation. Remember RD making a demonstrative grabbing motion with his fist.
Have always wondered if this was the cause of the rift.
Whether Murray deliberately misled Duchatelet on this or the latter misunderstood, Varney appointed a lawyer and they wrote to RD and RM requesting that they call in the police to investigate these claims, but both ignored all correspondence and both declined to repeat the allegations in writing.
There are multiple examples of Murray spreading misinformation privately and - famously, at Bromley - publicly, when he was called out by Wendy Perfect for lying about Steve Kavanagh‘s departure from the club. Murray’s behaviour stinks, but the rift goes back at least, coincidentally, to Varney intervening to prevent the 2010 Sainsbury takeover, which Murray was entertaining in his desperation. It featured Lee Amis and, allegedly, Matt Southall, as well as a convicted fraudster.
Airman, you ever thought about writing a book? (Another book, I mean.)
Back in the day when the B20 were active in St Truiden, after a game, myself and one other member were in the long fans night club in the main stand. We got lucky and managed a conversation with RD.
Peter Varney's name came up in conversation, RD instantly became angry, saying RM had warned him that PV had 'taken funds out of the club'. With no further explanation. Remember RD making a demonstrative grabbing motion with his fist.
Have always wondered if this was the cause of the rift.
Whether Murray deliberately misled Duchatelet on this or the latter misunderstood, Varney appointed a lawyer and they wrote to RD and RM requesting that they call in the police to investigate these claims, but both ignored all correspondence and both declined to repeat the allegations in writing.
There are multiple examples of Murray spreading misinformation privately and - famously, at Bromley - publicly, when he was called out by Wendy Perfect for lying about Steve Kavanagh‘s departure from the club. Murray’s behaviour stinks, but the rift goes back at least, coincidentally, to Varney intervening to prevent the 2010 Sainsbury takeover, which Murray was entertaining in his desperation. It featured Lee Amis and, allegedly, Matt Southall, as well as a convicted fraudster.
Airman, you ever thought about writing a book? (Another book, I mean.)
Feels like a lifetime ago now. So much shit has happened in that time.
Absolute dog shit the pair of them.
Makes me feel sick just thinking about it.
Not quite true, Faye had a very good start, maybe his first 8 games or so, seemed to drop away overnight though. Traore was and always has been shit.
No. He had one good game, I think when we played him at centre half for some reason. He was dreadful. The "team" Dowie assembled was dreadful - no cohesion and seemingly no team spirit. Dowie was dreadful. Clueless, out of his depth and he spent all of our transfer kitty on (mostly) absolute rubbish.
This rewriting of history is pretty funny, because it'S not how I remember it at the time. He got sacked For a reason.
Feels like a lifetime ago now. So much shit has happened in that time.
Absolute dog shit the pair of them.
Makes me feel sick just thinking about it.
Not quite true, Faye had a very good start, maybe his first 8 games or so, seemed to drop away overnight though. Traore was and always has been shit.
No. He had one good game, I think when we played him at centre half for some reason. He was dreadful. The "team" Dowie assembled was dreadful - no cohesion and seemingly no team spirit. Dowie was dreadful. Clueless, out of his depth and he spent all of our transfer kitty on (mostly) absolute rubbish.
This rewriting of history is pretty funny, because it not how I remember it at the time. He got sacked or a reason.
I'm not rewriting history at all, I remember it clearly. Dowie was terrible, as were most of his signings. Faye had a few good games for us, doesn't make him exempt from any criticism or that it was a waste of money though.
When you point things out, and you make the case that say Dowie had not lost the team, making it clear Dowie wasn't a great manager. I don't know why people have to misread that and think you are saying he was. My argument has always been that we would have been better off sacking him later in the season rather than when we did. Hardly glowing praise of the man. Why can't people read what a statement says?
Feels like a lifetime ago now. So much shit has happened in that time.
Absolute dog shit the pair of them.
Makes me feel sick just thinking about it.
Not quite true, Faye had a very good start, maybe his first 8 games or so, seemed to drop away overnight though. Traore was and always has been shit.
No. He had one good game, I think when we played him at centre half for some reason. He was dreadful. The "team" Dowie assembled was dreadful - no cohesion and seemingly no team spirit. Dowie was dreadful. Clueless, out of his depth and he spent all of our transfer kitty on (mostly) absolute rubbish.
This rewriting of history is pretty funny, because it'S not how I remember it at the time. He got sacked For a reason.
Rubbish. Dowie signed hasselbaink......I get your point
Looking at the list of possible replacements for Dowie in this Grauniad article about the sacking, the 4th suggestion rings a bell...whatever happened to him?
Addicks' contenders
Glenn Hoddle Out of football after leaving Wolves this summer
Aidy Boothroyd Impressed in taking Watford into the Premiership
Billy Davies Has taken Derby to fifth in the Championship this season
Dave Jones Steered Cardiff to top of the Championship in second season
Paul Simpson Terrific record, last year at Carlisle and now with Preston
Looking at the list of possible replacements for Dowie in this Grauniad article about the sacking, the 4th suggestion rings a bell...whatever happened to him?
Addicks' contenders
Glenn Hoddle Out of football after leaving Wolves this summer
Aidy Boothroyd Impressed in taking Watford into the Premiership
Billy Davies Has taken Derby to fifth in the Championship this season
Dave Jones Steered Cardiff to top of the Championship in second season
Paul Simpson Terrific record, last year at Carlisle and now with Preston
It certainly posed a problem. Curbs was going to go the next season so the situation needed managing. My view is that Murray gave himself too much credit for the details of our success, whereas seeing what Curbs could offer and supporting him should have been credit enough. He believed he was the best chairman in the country and wanted to introduce his grand plan. The only problem with his plan was that it was complete bollocks.
Feels like a lifetime ago now. So much shit has happened in that time.
Absolute dog shit the pair of them.
Makes me feel sick just thinking about it.
Not quite true, Faye had a very good start, maybe his first 8 games or so, seemed to drop away overnight though. Traore was and always has been shit.
No. He had one good game, I think when we played him at centre half for some reason. He was dreadful. The "team" Dowie assembled was dreadful - no cohesion and seemingly no team spirit. Dowie was dreadful. Clueless, out of his depth and he spent all of our transfer kitty on (mostly) absolute rubbish.
This rewriting of history is pretty funny, because it'S not how I remember it at the time. He got sacked For a reason.
He was sacked following a series of incidents
His results were: P15, W5, D2, L8 Wins: PL - Bolton & Man City LC - Carlisle, Bolton, Chesterfield Draws: PL - Watford & Newcastle.
Incident 1: Inviting his brother into the club to do pre-match talks, despite being told Bob Dowie was to have nothing to do with CAFC. He was caught in the act on the day of Charlton's 2-1 defeat to Fulham.
Incident 2: Training by playing Cricket, not Football
Incident 3: Jumping off the team coach early instead of preparing for the fixture the next day with the team at their hotel. He was next seen 3 hours before Kick off.
Incident 4: On the morning of the Newcastle draw, Dowie took the team out for a jog. They got lost, ran across a dual carriageway and had to have Taxi's sent out to collect them. One player at the time, reportedly said: “It was quite funny, but it was hardly good preparation. I was knackered."
Incident 5: 24 hours before a game against Watford, Dowie skipped training, insisting it would be a good idea for someone else to be in charge.
Feels like a lifetime ago now. So much shit has happened in that time.
Absolute dog shit the pair of them.
Makes me feel sick just thinking about it.
Not quite true, Faye had a very good start, maybe his first 8 games or so, seemed to drop away overnight though. Traore was and always has been shit.
No. He had one good game, I think when we played him at centre half for some reason. He was dreadful. The "team" Dowie assembled was dreadful - no cohesion and seemingly no team spirit. Dowie was dreadful. Clueless, out of his depth and he spent all of our transfer kitty on (mostly) absolute rubbish.
This rewriting of history is pretty funny, because it'S not how I remember it at the time. He got sacked For a reason.
Rubbish. Dowie signed hasselbaink......I get your point
A 'Murray' signing I think - think Curbishley was interested the season before?
Back in the day when the B20 were active in St Truiden, after a game, myself and one other member were in the long fans night club in the main stand. We got lucky and managed a conversation with RD.
Peter Varney's name came up in conversation, RD instantly became angry, saying RM had warned him that PV had 'taken funds out of the club'. With no further explanation. Remember RD making a demonstrative grabbing motion with his fist.
Have always wondered if this was the cause of the rift.
Whether Murray deliberately misled Duchatelet on this or the latter misunderstood, Varney appointed a lawyer and they wrote to RD and RM requesting that they call in the police to investigate these claims, but both ignored all correspondence and both declined to repeat the allegations in writing.
There are multiple examples of Murray spreading misinformation privately and - famously, at Bromley - publicly, when he was called out by Wendy Perfect for lying about Steve Kavanagh‘s departure from the club. Murray’s behaviour stinks, but the rift goes back at least, coincidentally, to Varney intervening to prevent the 2010 Sainsbury takeover, which Murray was entertaining in his desperation. It featured Lee Amis and, allegedly, Matt Southall, as well as a convicted fraudster.
Airman, you ever thought about writing a book? (Another book, I mean.)
I have, but I like a happy ending.
If you ever get a chance to write a book about the last 10 years going-ons at this club, I would love it, absolutely love it!
Comments
I think Murray has harboured a degree of anger at the credit / high value placed on Varney from the successful era. In his eyes, he is someone who always put money into the club while Varney was one that had always taken money out of the club (via salary, fees and commissions). I think that is an example I heard him give once at a Q&A.
His perspective takes no account of time, emotional commitment or opportunity cost to individuals, it’s just narrowly financial. On the other hand Murray was happy to spend the money put in by other people and ultimately fell out with them because he didn’t respect their input enough. He has no relationship with a number of them because of that, but he can’t say they took out of the club.
This rewriting of history is pretty funny, because it'S not how I remember it at the time. He got sacked For a reason.
Disagree by all means, but don't misinterpret.
Looking at the list of possible replacements for Dowie in this Grauniad article about the sacking, the 4th suggestion rings a bell...whatever happened to him?
His results were:
P15, W5, D2, L8
Wins:
PL - Bolton & Man City
LC - Carlisle, Bolton, Chesterfield
Draws:
PL - Watford & Newcastle.
Incident 1: Inviting his brother into the club to do pre-match talks, despite being told Bob Dowie was to have nothing to do with CAFC. He was caught in the act on the day of Charlton's 2-1 defeat to Fulham.
Incident 2: Training by playing Cricket, not Football
Incident 3: Jumping off the team coach early instead of preparing for the fixture the next day with the team at their hotel. He was next seen 3 hours before Kick off.
Incident 4: On the morning of the Newcastle draw, Dowie took the team out for a jog. They got lost, ran across a dual carriageway and had to have Taxi's sent out to collect them.
One player at the time, reportedly said: “It was quite funny, but it was hardly good preparation. I was knackered."
Incident 5: 24 hours before a game against Watford, Dowie skipped training, insisting it would be a good idea for someone else to be in charge.