Getting away from the silly / extreme stuff, this thread has got me thinking a bit more about.
I’ll freely admit I’m not an animal lover, I’ll eat anything, and I love my meat, fish, dairy and eggs.
But I’m intrigued how i would get on without them so I’m going to set myself a challenge to have a ‘vegan week’, 7 days eating just vegan food. See how I feel mentally and physically and whether i notice any energy change.
If anyone else fancies giving it a go give me a shout, we can get meal suggestions from the vegans off here and make a bit of an event of it.
In World Cup semi (and potentially final) week, I should point out that a lot of beers aren’t vegan mate?
As I suggested in my earlier comment, it used to be quite hard to be a vegan but now it's pretty easy with loads of prepared foods on offer. Whether or not people explore the vegan option is down to a sort of resonance as there is a spiritual vibe to it. There is a philosophy that as you stop eating flesh eating you remove a veil and you may get a bit more sensitive. It's a first step on the path to a higher consciousness. The nazarenes and many buddhists think like this. I don't buy the vegan pets argument. Our cat eats meat/fish. Weirdly, it eats the vegan quorn when we drop a bit on the floor but generally it does not seem right to me to feed vegan food to cats and dogs. But I always wonder why we feed cats beef and lamb? It seems most unnatural! Rabbit and chicken seems far more appropriate to me but our moggy gets spoilt rotten by my wife. She would probably give it caviare if we could afford it.
Your cats also needlessly kill hundreds of song birds each year
What is your point?
Cat owners facilitate the mass, needless killing of millions of song birds every year, so that must mean they don't like animals surely
Again no one has said cats are perfect, you have missed the point. I hate cats toying with birds, unfortunately you can't tell a cat otherwise. A human has the ability to know right from wrong though
Are you saying humans eating animals is wrong, or just the wrong choice? Big difference.
It's both. It's the wrong choice for the environment and it's the wrong choice morally. Absolute facts. Not even an argument.
Ah, now I understand, anyone who eats meat is morally wrong, "absolute facts, not even an argument".
Says who exactly?
My nan used to say it was morally wrong not to go to Church on a Sunday, in fact when I worked on a Sunday I think she wanted to have me exorcised, she simply couldn't believe it.
Jokes aside, @Braziliance I think where you fall down is that you start quoting morals, start stating that it's all facts that we shouldn't be eating meat and that because we are intelligent enough to be able to make a choice (unlike cats for example) that we should make the choice you do.
Thats simply dictating how people should live their lives, it's not a crime to eat meat (or not to) anymore than it's not a crime to drink alcohol, I personally choose not to but that doesn't make anyone who does morally wrong for doing so.
I'm sure it's 100% true we don't 'need' to eat meat to survive, we also don't need to drink anything but water, don't need to fly on a plane, practice religion, drive a car, wear clothes and 1001 other things, doesn't mean it's morally wrong to do any of those things, it's a choice we make.
Things we do can be morally wrong though can't they. I do all of those things I can see that not everything can go on forever. I know that the days of driving a car are probably numbered, 20 years ago we didn't know how bad diesel cars are, and soon they will be banned.
I do plenty of things that are morally incorrect, even against my own morals.
Brazilliance might go over the top but it's no worse than the WUM on here.
I take it you're referencing me there @Lurker - I always join these threads because eating ethically is a subject that take very seriously, even as a meat eater and I will always challenge anyone who implies that eating meat is morally wrong, because I don't believe it is.
Sometimes the banter comes to the fore, from both sides but, tbh, theres usually a decent debate in there somewhere and we usually leave as friends.... I hope
True, but there’s the decent thing in once you’ve made your point, had your debate, you walk away. You don’t need to be stuck to it like a fat bloke in a cheap suit.
If I kept replying to the long running thread on American Football thread to effect of ‘American football is sh*t’, that wouldn’t be fair to those who enjoy that thread, even though I genuinely do think it is sh*t.
You’ve made your points, leave it at that. I and I assume most others think some of the vegan animal points are nonsense, but we don’t all need to say it and you don’t need to dominate it.
Now Go and share a cactus smoothie with ya dog
But its a debate and points bounce backwards and forwards, surely?
Yes, but you’ve made 43 posts in the last five pages. That’s not joining in the debate, that’s too much, and possibly stifling or putting off the input log others, particularly as it’s based on a topic that you don’t even follow!
Getting away from the silly / extreme stuff, this thread has got me thinking a bit more about.
I’ll freely admit I’m not an animal lover, I’ll eat anything, and I love my meat, fish, dairy and eggs.
But I’m intrigued how i would get on without them so I’m going to set myself a challenge to have a ‘vegan week’, 7 days eating just vegan food. See how I feel mentally and physically and whether i notice any energy change.
If anyone else fancies giving it a go give me a shout, we can get meal suggestions from the vegans off here and make a bit of an event of it.
In World Cup semi (and potentially final) week, I should point out that a lot of beers aren’t vegan mate?
Might want to try it next week.
Ah, I meant in a couple of months. I forgot to add the ‘once the summer is out the way’ bit :-)
As I suggested in my earlier comment, it used to be quite hard to be a vegan but now it's pretty easy with loads of prepared foods on offer. Whether or not people explore the vegan option is down to a sort of resonance as there is a spiritual vibe to it. There is a philosophy that as you stop eating flesh eating you remove a veil and you may get a bit more sensitive. It's a first step on the path to a higher consciousness. The nazarenes and many buddhists think like this. I don't buy the vegan pets argument. Our cat eats meat/fish. Weirdly, it eats the vegan quorn when we drop a bit on the floor but generally it does not seem right to me to feed vegan food to cats and dogs. But I always wonder why we feed cats beef and lamb? It seems most unnatural! Rabbit and chicken seems far more appropriate to me but our moggy gets spoilt rotten by my wife. She would probably give it caviare if we could afford it.
Your cats also needlessly kill hundreds of song birds each year
What is your point?
Cat owners facilitate the mass, needless killing of millions of song birds every year, so that must mean they don't like animals surely
Again no one has said cats are perfect, you have missed the point. I hate cats toying with birds, unfortunately you can't tell a cat otherwise. A human has the ability to know right from wrong though
Are you saying humans eating animals is wrong, or just the wrong choice? Big difference.
It's both. It's the wrong choice for the environment and it's the wrong choice morally. Absolute facts. Not even an argument.
Ah, now I understand, anyone who eats meat is morally wrong, "absolute facts, not even an argument".
Says who exactly?
My nan used to say it was morally wrong not to go to Church on a Sunday, in fact when I worked on a Sunday I think she wanted to have me exorcised, she simply couldn't believe it.
Jokes aside, @Braziliance I think where you fall down is that you start quoting morals, start stating that it's all facts that we shouldn't be eating meat and that because we are intelligent enough to be able to make a choice (unlike cats for example) that we should make the choice you do.
Thats simply dictating how people should live their lives, it's not a crime to eat meat (or not to) anymore than it's not a crime to drink alcohol, I personally choose not to but that doesn't make anyone who does morally wrong for doing so.
I'm sure it's 100% true we don't 'need' to eat meat to survive, we also don't need to drink anything but water, don't need to fly on a plane, practice religion, drive a car, wear clothes and 1001 other things, doesn't mean it's morally wrong to do any of those things, it's a choice we make.
Things we do can be morally wrong though can't they. I do all of those things I can see that not everything can go on forever. I know that the days of driving a car are probably numbered, 20 years ago we didn't know how bad diesel cars are, and soon they will be banned.
I do plenty of things that are morally incorrect, even against my own morals.
Brazilliance might go over the top but it's no worse than the WUM on here.
I take it you're referencing me there @Lurker - I always join these threads because eating ethically is a subject that take very seriously, even as a meat eater and I will always challenge anyone who implies that eating meat is morally wrong, because I don't believe it is.
Sometimes the banter comes to the fore, from both sides but, tbh, theres usually a decent debate in there somewhere and we usually leave as friends.... I hope
True, but there’s the decent thing in once you’ve made your point, had your debate, you walk away. You don’t need to be stuck to it like a fat bloke in a cheap suit.
If I kept replying to the long running thread on American Football thread to effect of ‘American football is sh*t’, that wouldn’t be fair to those who enjoy that thread, even though I genuinely do think it is sh*t.
You’ve made your points, leave it at that. I and I assume most others think some of the vegan animal points are nonsense, but we don’t all need to say it and you don’t need to dominate it.
Now Go and share a cactus smoothie with ya dog
But its a debate and points bounce backwards and forwards, surely?
Yes, but you’ve made 43 posts in the last five pages. That’s not joining in the debate, that’s too much, and possibly stifling or putting off the input log others, particularly as it’s based on a topic that you don’t even follow!
But if people are quoting ain't I got right to reply?
As I suggested in my earlier comment, it used to be quite hard to be a vegan but now it's pretty easy with loads of prepared foods on offer. Whether or not people explore the vegan option is down to a sort of resonance as there is a spiritual vibe to it. There is a philosophy that as you stop eating flesh eating you remove a veil and you may get a bit more sensitive. It's a first step on the path to a higher consciousness. The nazarenes and many buddhists think like this. I don't buy the vegan pets argument. Our cat eats meat/fish. Weirdly, it eats the vegan quorn when we drop a bit on the floor but generally it does not seem right to me to feed vegan food to cats and dogs. But I always wonder why we feed cats beef and lamb? It seems most unnatural! Rabbit and chicken seems far more appropriate to me but our moggy gets spoilt rotten by my wife. She would probably give it caviare if we could afford it.
Your cats also needlessly kill hundreds of song birds each year
What is your point?
Cat owners facilitate the mass, needless killing of millions of song birds every year, so that must mean they don't like animals surely
Again no one has said cats are perfect, you have missed the point. I hate cats toying with birds, unfortunately you can't tell a cat otherwise. A human has the ability to know right from wrong though
Are you saying humans eating animals is wrong, or just the wrong choice? Big difference.
It's both. It's the wrong choice for the environment and it's the wrong choice morally. Absolute facts. Not even an argument.
Ah, now I understand, anyone who eats meat is morally wrong, "absolute facts, not even an argument".
Says who exactly?
My nan used to say it was morally wrong not to go to Church on a Sunday, in fact when I worked on a Sunday I think she wanted to have me exorcised, she simply couldn't believe it.
Jokes aside, @Braziliance I think where you fall down is that you start quoting morals, start stating that it's all facts that we shouldn't be eating meat and that because we are intelligent enough to be able to make a choice (unlike cats for example) that we should make the choice you do.
Thats simply dictating how people should live their lives, it's not a crime to eat meat (or not to) anymore than it's not a crime to drink alcohol, I personally choose not to but that doesn't make anyone who does morally wrong for doing so.
I'm sure it's 100% true we don't 'need' to eat meat to survive, we also don't need to drink anything but water, don't need to fly on a plane, practice religion, drive a car, wear clothes and 1001 other things, doesn't mean it's morally wrong to do any of those things, it's a choice we make.
Things we do can be morally wrong though can't they. I do all of those things I can see that not everything can go on forever. I know that the days of driving a car are probably numbered, 20 years ago we didn't know how bad diesel cars are, and soon they will be banned.
I do plenty of things that are morally incorrect, even against my own morals.
Brazilliance might go over the top but it's no worse than the WUM on here.
I take it you're referencing me there @Lurker - I always join these threads because eating ethically is a subject that take very seriously, even as a meat eater and I will always challenge anyone who implies that eating meat is morally wrong, because I don't believe it is.
Sometimes the banter comes to the fore, from both sides but, tbh, theres usually a decent debate in there somewhere and we usually leave as friends.... I hope
Out of interest, what are your views on eating ethically?
Like I've said before, we keep our own chickens for meat and eggs, I harvest meat meself and we get bits direct off local farmers as and when. If we do buy it commercially from a butcher, we'll try and get the best quality we can afford at the time.
Imo, looking at the bigger picture, that is the most ethical way to be, while sustaining healthy numbers of domesticated farm animals. If everyone went vegan, as some are predicting, they need to be aware that that will mean animalsnot having any worth and so being wanted.
I also think that meat is far too cheap. One should not be able to buy 2 dressed chicken for €6, that is imo morally wrong.
Just wanted to also add something that I don't think I've said before - My Mrs was a veggie for 10 years before we met and when i met her, chicken was just about ths only meat she would eat and she certainly wouldnt have eaten a chicken that she'd seen walking around before hand. Now she eats (or at least tries) virtually everything I do
I can see why you have strong views on the subject, it's obviously not my thing but you clearly think about the meat you consume... you cant not when it's been walking around your garden.
Can't speak for others and I don't have ideas of a vegan world but my issues with the meat industry (and the reason I'm currently vegan) is the way animals are treated in farms. My father in law has hens and I don't have an ethical problem with eating them, I just don't like egg.
As I suggested in my earlier comment, it used to be quite hard to be a vegan but now it's pretty easy with loads of prepared foods on offer. Whether or not people explore the vegan option is down to a sort of resonance as there is a spiritual vibe to it. There is a philosophy that as you stop eating flesh eating you remove a veil and you may get a bit more sensitive. It's a first step on the path to a higher consciousness. The nazarenes and many buddhists think like this. I don't buy the vegan pets argument. Our cat eats meat/fish. Weirdly, it eats the vegan quorn when we drop a bit on the floor but generally it does not seem right to me to feed vegan food to cats and dogs. But I always wonder why we feed cats beef and lamb? It seems most unnatural! Rabbit and chicken seems far more appropriate to me but our moggy gets spoilt rotten by my wife. She would probably give it caviare if we could afford it.
Your cats also needlessly kill hundreds of song birds each year
What is your point?
Cat owners facilitate the mass, needless killing of millions of song birds every year, so that must mean they don't like animals surely
Again no one has said cats are perfect, you have missed the point. I hate cats toying with birds, unfortunately you can't tell a cat otherwise. A human has the ability to know right from wrong though
Are you saying humans eating animals is wrong, or just the wrong choice? Big difference.
It's both. It's the wrong choice for the environment and it's the wrong choice morally. Absolute facts. Not even an argument.
Ah, now I understand, anyone who eats meat is morally wrong, "absolute facts, not even an argument".
Says who exactly?
My nan used to say it was morally wrong not to go to Church on a Sunday, in fact when I worked on a Sunday I think she wanted to have me exorcised, she simply couldn't believe it.
Jokes aside, @Braziliance I think where you fall down is that you start quoting morals, start stating that it's all facts that we shouldn't be eating meat and that because we are intelligent enough to be able to make a choice (unlike cats for example) that we should make the choice you do.
Thats simply dictating how people should live their lives, it's not a crime to eat meat (or not to) anymore than it's not a crime to drink alcohol, I personally choose not to but that doesn't make anyone who does morally wrong for doing so.
I'm sure it's 100% true we don't 'need' to eat meat to survive, we also don't need to drink anything but water, don't need to fly on a plane, practice religion, drive a car, wear clothes and 1001 other things, doesn't mean it's morally wrong to do any of those things, it's a choice we make.
Things we do can be morally wrong though can't they. I do all of those things I can see that not everything can go on forever. I know that the days of driving a car are probably numbered, 20 years ago we didn't know how bad diesel cars are, and soon they will be banned.
I do plenty of things that are morally incorrect, even against my own morals.
Brazilliance might go over the top but it's no worse than the WUM on here.
I take it you're referencing me there @Lurker - I always join these threads because eating ethically is a subject that take very seriously, even as a meat eater and I will always challenge anyone who implies that eating meat is morally wrong, because I don't believe it is.
Sometimes the banter comes to the fore, from both sides but, tbh, theres usually a decent debate in there somewhere and we usually leave as friends.... I hope
Out of interest, what are your views on eating ethically?
Like I've said before, we keep our own chickens for meat and eggs, I harvest meat meself and we get bits direct off local farmers as and when. If we do buy it commercially from a butcher, we'll try and get the best quality we can afford at the time.
Imo, looking at the bigger picture, that is the most ethical way to be, while sustaining healthy numbers of domesticated farm animals. If everyone went vegan, as some are predicting, they need to be aware that that will mean animalsnot having any worth and so being wanted.
I also think that meat is far too cheap. One should not be able to buy 2 dressed chicken for €6, that is imo morally wrong.
Just wanted to also add something that I don't think I've said before - My Mrs was a veggie for 10 years before we met and when i met her, chicken was just about ths only meat she would eat and she certainly wouldnt have eaten a chicken that she'd seen walking around before hand. Now she eats (or at least tries) virtually everything I do
I can see why you have strong views on the subject, it's obviously not my thing but you clearly think about the meat you consume... you cant not when it's been walking around your garden.
Can't speak for others and I don't have ideas of a vegan world but my issues with the meat industry (and the reason I'm currently vegan) is the way animals are treated in farms. My father in law has hens and I don't have an ethical problem with eating them, I just don't like egg.
Sorry mate, gotta bail out now, this aint my topic
Animal Aid, an animal welfare charity based in Tonbridge, has produced an information pack for those who are interested in moving towards veganism / becoming a vegan. Here's a link: https://e-activist.com/page/18237/data/1
Getting away from the silly / extreme stuff, this thread has got me thinking a bit more about.
I’ll freely admit I’m not an animal lover, I’ll eat anything, and I love my meat, fish, dairy and eggs.
But I’m intrigued how i would get on without them so I’m going to set myself a challenge to have a ‘vegan week’, 7 days eating just vegan food. See how I feel mentally and physically and whether i notice any energy change.
If anyone else fancies giving it a go give me a shout, we can get meal suggestions from the vegans off here and make a bit of an event of it.
This is my evening meal suggestion to be getting in with. I think I've lived this diet for real back in the day blud
day 1 baked potato with beans day 2 toast with jam day 3 tin of peaches day 4 avocado on toast day 5 cornflakes with water day 6 rice and beans with green vegetables day 7 gnocchi with pine nuts and olive oil
Getting away from the silly / extreme stuff, this thread has got me thinking a bit more about.
I’ll freely admit I’m not an animal lover, I’ll eat anything, and I love my meat, fish, dairy and eggs.
But I’m intrigued how i would get on without them so I’m going to set myself in a couple of months time a challenge to have a ‘vegan week’, 7 days eating just vegan food. See how I feel mentally and physically and whether i notice any energy or attitude change.
If anyone else fancies giving it a go give me a shout, we can get meal suggestions from the vegans off here and make a bit of an event of it.
Getting away from the silly / extreme stuff, this thread has got me thinking a bit more about.
I’ll freely admit I’m not an animal lover, I’ll eat anything, and I love my meat, fish, dairy and eggs.
But I’m intrigued how i would get on without them so I’m going to set myself a challenge to have a ‘vegan week’, 7 days eating just vegan food. See how I feel mentally and physically and whether i notice any energy change.
If anyone else fancies giving it a go give me a shout, we can get meal suggestions from the vegans off here and make a bit of an event of it.
This is my evening meal suggestion to be getting in with. I think I've lived this diet for real back in the day blud
day 1 baked potato with beans day 2 toast with jam day 3 tin of peaches day 4 avocado on toast day 5 cornflakes with water day 6 rice and beans with green vegetables day 7 gnocchi with pine nuts and olive oil
Getting away from the silly / extreme stuff, this thread has got me thinking a bit more about.
I’ll freely admit I’m not an animal lover, I’ll eat anything, and I love my meat, fish, dairy and eggs.
But I’m intrigued how i would get on without them so I’m going to set myself a challenge to have a ‘vegan week’, 7 days eating just vegan food. See how I feel mentally and physically and whether i notice any energy change.
If anyone else fancies giving it a go give me a shout, we can get meal suggestions from the vegans off here and make a bit of an event of it.
This is my evening meal suggestion to be getting in with. I think I've lived this diet for real back in the day blud
day 1 baked potato with beans day 2 toast with jam day 3 tin of peaches day 4 avocado on toast day 5 cornflakes with water day 6 rice and beans with green vegetables day 7 gnocchi with pine nuts and olive oil
Well why didn’t you post that earlier? I’m definitely now going to give this vegan malarkey a try.
Getting away from the silly / extreme stuff, this thread has got me thinking a bit more about.
I’ll freely admit I’m not an animal lover, I’ll eat anything, and I love my meat, fish, dairy and eggs.
But I’m intrigued how i would get on without them so I’m going to set myself in a couple of months time a challenge to have a ‘vegan week’, 7 days eating just vegan food. See how I feel mentally and physically and whether i notice any energy or attitude change.
If anyone else fancies giving it a go give me a shout, we can get meal suggestions from the vegans off here and make a bit of an event of it.
To do it justice I think you need to do a month.
I’ve never gone a day so If I said a month the likelihood is I wouldn’t stick to it. I’ll give it a week and see how it goes
Getting away from the silly / extreme stuff, this thread has got me thinking a bit more about.
I’ll freely admit I’m not an animal lover, I’ll eat anything, and I love my meat, fish, dairy and eggs.
But I’m intrigued how i would get on without them so I’m going to set myself in a couple of months time a challenge to have a ‘vegan week’, 7 days eating just vegan food. See how I feel mentally and physically and whether i notice any energy or attitude change.
If anyone else fancies giving it a go give me a shout, we can get meal suggestions from the vegans off here and make a bit of an event of it.
To do it justice I think you need to do a month.
I’ve never gone a day so If I said a month the likelihood is I wouldn’t stick to it. I’ll give it a week and see how it goes
Just seen that you can get vegan bacon. Should help out ?
Veggies and Vegans do get a lot of unwarranted stick but you’re not helping yourself when you make a statement that your dog is vegan.
He’s not, it’s just that YOU his owner, makes the decision for him to not eat meat.
The only vegans who get stick as far as I'm concerned, are the ones who insist on telling meat eaters that they're doing something wrong, or try and "spread the word".
Why come into a thread about the growth of veganism then? You know you'll get annoyed and annoy other people.
Big Rob is here for game and game alone tbf
I'm not, it absolutely infuriates me that people make a life choice and then take the moral high ground with those who live a normal life.
You clicked on a thread named rise of the vegans and decided to start challenging people. You have infuriated yourself there fella
It's on public forum though treacle
I know it is. So how can you get infuriated by getting told the facts. Just close the thread if it makes you that angry. You don't agree with vegans, you haven't bothered to do your own research that's that.
No, what I don't agree with, is people trotting out opinions and stating them as facts
People can eat whatever they like, for whatever reason they like, but I'll reserve the right to challenge opinions on a public forum, whenever I want.
Everything I am saying is a fact though.
bad for the planet, fact. Bad for your health, fact. The only thing you could argue is that it isn't morally wrong but what kind of person thinks making an animal suffer unnecessarily is ok just so long as they can satisfy their cravings? Again each to their own but that is the harsh truth.
Just for the record you wouldn't catch me jump in on a thread called 'Rise of the meaticons' and start waffling on about how I love grass.
"Researchers from the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition followed half a million people in 10 countries for more than 12 years. The researchers found that eating moderate amounts of red meat had no effect on mortality. The lowest overall mortality rates were in those eating up to 80g a day."
Fact you say?
Edit; I don't recall any stories of great Aunty Edna who celebrating her 100th birthday said 'it's all down to me not eating meat since before the 1st world war'
Now that really is tin hat territory. Like I said, do some research, the amount of time you spent trying to argue with me could have been spent looking the information up.
Same study being cited by a BBC television programme called "Should I Eat Meat?".
Think it holds up and is far from 'tin hat' territory.
The video does mention a conflicting Harvard study.
Bit of a short and sweet video, it's nothing new to me though I've seen a panel of vegan nutritionists arguing with meat eaters.
When I meant tin hat I was aiming that at myself mate, if I said my beliefs and opinons on why meat eating is recommended I can't see that going down well, hence why I keep saying people should watch a documentary to hear it from experts and not myself haha
AFKA------i fecking told you not to debate with Vegans !!!now your going to go a week eating plants and drinking pond water FFS !!!!! told you after 3days without meat i dream of meat pies.
AFKA------i fecking told you not to debate with Vegans !!!now your going to go a week eating plants and drinking pond water FFS !!!!! told you after 3days without meat i dream of meat pies.
AFKA------i fecking told you not to debate with Vegans !!!now your going to go a week eating plants and drinking pond water FFS !!!!! told you after 3days without meat i dream of meat pies.
In total, there are around 20 amino acids that the human body uses to build proteins.
These amino acids are classified as either essential or non-essential.
Your body can produce non-essential amino acids. However, it cannot produce essential amino acids, which need to be obtained through your diet.
For optimal health, your body needs all the essential amino acids in the right ratios.
Animal protein sources, such as meat, fish, poultry, eggs and dairy, are similar to the protein found in your body.
These are considered to be complete sources of protein because they contain all of the essential amino acids that your body needs to function effectively.
On the contrary, plant protein sources, such as beans, lentils and nuts are considered to be incomplete, as they lack one or more of the essential amino acids that your body needs (1).
Some sources report soy protein as complete. However, two essential amino acids are only found in small amounts in soy, so it isn't comparable to animal protein.
#justsayin
It has also been suggested that certain amino acids are assimilated 'more easily' from meat than from protein. However what you say also demonstrates that humans don't have to eat meat as the only way to get all the nutrition, soy protein does indeed allow for the consumption of the range of nutrients needed. It is indeed comparable, even though you say that in that comparison you reckon meat is better than soy because of 'amounts'. I suppose what I am saying is that it is realistic to describe man as an omnivore, but that it is not essential for a balanced diet for man to eat meat, fish, eggs and dairy. It seems to come down to a matter of choice, taste and convenience rather than a matter of scientific necessity.
I think what the findings suggest is that meat is essential for a completely balanced diet, but in fairly small quantities as MOST of the essential amino acids can be obtained through plant means, but not all
Are you absolutely certain sure that meat is an essential way of obtaining the things needed for a balanced diet? Actually I am not sure you are saying that. I looked into this some years ago, even as far as obscure nutrients with complicated 'B' and 'D' numbers and so on. I discovered that there isn't a single foodstuff got from meat products that can't be got from plant products, and soy led the way in that.
A problem is that the body is far less efficient at absorbing the amino acids etc from vegetable based protein than it is from meat so you have to eat a lot more. And there are certain nutrients which don't appear naturally in a vegan diet
Not impossible if you take supplements to get around, but it does reflect that biologically we are designed to have some meat in our diet.
This is a point of debate more than one set in concrete. Isn't the overall message that however inconvenient or difficult it might be, humans can get by perfectly well without meat if they so wished?
I would say we get the vegetarian/vegan thread about three times a year on here, and it is generally predictable. Something I have noticed though (based on no objective analysis) is there definitely seems to be an increase in non meat and indeed non dairy consumers here on Charlton life. It is also a type of thread that descended into rubbish more quickly in the past than it does these days. Perhaps the suggestion in the thread title that there is a vegan/vegetarian 'rise' is a truism. I certainly look back at over 60 years on this planet, and the current situation regarding being a vegetarian or vegan is much much better than in my youth, where being a veggie, was akin to walking around Woolwich in an Hawaiian shirt, something so rarely encountered it would get a reaction. The food situation is more nuanced though. In my youth people went to places like the butchers or the greengrocers or the general grocers and bought stuff hardly processed in any way, and would generally cook from base ingredients, things like pizza were unheard of, and the most likely instant processed food one would get would be from the chip shop. If a veggie turned up at a meal, meat and two veg would become two veg and that would be that. Whatever the explanation, giving up meat, fish, and dairy is in my view increasing quite rapidly now by comparison to my early years.
Based on the figures in the link on the OP Veganism accounts for roughly 1% of the population, 2% for Vegetarianism - presumably leaving 97% of the population as meat/dairy eaters.
Growing? Yes. Critical mass? A long way to go.
I agree, but the term critical mass is intriguing. Mind you I think those figures are possibly lower than the reality, but I can't point to definitive proof.
I like making some vegetarian/vegan stir frys and curries. Can anyone recommend any vegan recipe books if I want to be more adventurous?
Get yourself to YouTube and search for Bosh, Happy Pear and Avant Garde Vegan channels. You’ll find some easy to follow recipes that will hit the spot.
Animal Aid, an animal welfare charity based in Tonbridge, has produced an information pack for those who are interested in moving towards veganism / becoming a vegan. Here's a link: https://e-activist.com/page/18237/data/1
I like making some vegetarian/vegan stir frys and curries. Can anyone recommend any vegan recipe books if I want to be more adventurous?
Get yourself to YouTube and search for Bosh, Happy Pear and Avant Garde Vegan channels. You’ll find some easy to follow recipes that will hit the spot.
What are you two doing back on here with your common sense arguments and helpful posts? Don't you know this has descended into a pseudo-philosophical debate about imposing individual moral codes on the rest of society, bizarre criticisms of natural feline behaviour and a burning desire to illustrate that all meat actually comes originally from foliage?
Fucking hell lads. To summarise: being vegan is great for some, but for others its not for them.
If you really want to give a try a 10 minute google and a fucking stove will see you right. See if you like it, see if it makes you feel better than before. If not, no harm done.
Now I’m off to enjoy the rest of my evening without this predictable bullshit.
Veggies and Vegans do get a lot of unwarranted stick but you’re not helping yourself when you make a statement that your dog is vegan.
He’s not, it’s just that YOU his owner, makes the decision for him to not eat meat.
The only vegans who get stick as far as I'm concerned, are the ones who insist on telling meat eaters that they're doing something wrong, or try and "spread the word".
Why come into a thread about the growth of veganism then? You know you'll get annoyed and annoy other people.
Big Rob is here for game and game alone tbf
I'm not, it absolutely infuriates me that people make a life choice and then take the moral high ground with those who live a normal life.
You clicked on a thread named rise of the vegans and decided to start challenging people. You have infuriated yourself there fella
It's on public forum though treacle
I know it is. So how can you get infuriated by getting told the facts. Just close the thread if it makes you that angry. You don't agree with vegans, you haven't bothered to do your own research that's that.
No, what I don't agree with, is people trotting out opinions and stating them as facts
People can eat whatever they like, for whatever reason they like, but I'll reserve the right to challenge opinions on a public forum, whenever I want.
Everything I am saying is a fact though.
bad for the planet, fact. Bad for your health, fact. The only thing you could argue is that it isn't morally wrong but what kind of person thinks making an animal suffer unnecessarily is ok just so long as they can satisfy their cravings? Again each to their own but that is the harsh truth.
Just for the record you wouldn't catch me jump in on a thread called 'Rise of the meaticons' and start waffling on about how I love grass.
"Researchers from the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition followed half a million people in 10 countries for more than 12 years. The researchers found that eating moderate amounts of red meat had no effect on mortality. The lowest overall mortality rates were in those eating up to 80g a day."
Fact you say?
Edit; I don't recall any stories of great Aunty Edna who celebrating her 100th birthday said 'it's all down to me not eating meat since before the 1st world war'
Now that really is tin hat territory. Like I said, do some research, the amount of time you spent trying to argue with me could have been spent looking the information up.
So are you disagreeing with the findings of the European Prospective investigation into Cancer & Nutrition of half a million people over a 12 year period? "The researchers found that eating moderate amounts of red meat had no effect on mortality"
I'm sure we can all name plenty of people who lived to near 100 (or in the case of my great uncle 103) who probably didn't go a day in their lives (outside of the war years) where they didn't eat meat and mostly red meat at that....... why is that?
I think it's far from 'fact' that meat is simply bad for your health (in moderation just like most foods).
I think people can be wrong yes. Now you have researched information to boost your point, now read or better yet watch the opposite to debunk my point. I really don't want to go and link x article from x site. I have recommended what to watch, until then I don't get why you would be trying to argue.
I'm glad your uncle and many others who ate a normal diet lived long, it's fortunate some people get to live that long. To turn it ugly though and use your example of 'how many meat eaters lived to 100' how many meat eaters die of heart disease, clogged arteries, cancer etc? It works both ways, all the information is out there for free if you want to look at it, help yourself. Sorry if that sounds a bit morbid.
Thats a very blinkered view, I'm sure I can find a video that purportedly shows that the earth is flat.
i've no doubt if you eat a bucket load of meat a day it won't be good for you, there are studies on both sides, so thats my point, your view is not fact (as you continually say it is). I know there are studies that agree with your point of view and one's that don't.
Personally I don't think loads of meat is good for you, particular processed, but I also don't think you need to not eat meat to be healthy.
The people who are saying the earth is flat are lunatics though, the people who speak veganism that I've listened to are doctors and nutritional experts.
You can be healthy and eat meat obviously, the majority of the fittest people on earth eat meat. There is no doubt that it damages your body though if ate frequently, an example sources of lead were found in some protein drinks before but wasn't damaging the drinkers because of the small dose, a higher consumption would have. It's similar to eating meat, in moderation probably won't kill you but a high consumption will increase your chances of the things I said earlier.
A vegan gets all the same nutrients, vitamins a meat eater does except B12. So you have to make up from that, other than that you can equal anything else a meat eater eats. Especially protein as that's the one most people try and bring up
- Start off calm. - Tell meat eaters they're morally wrong and meat is bad for you. - Get blown out the water on every point. - Play the victim.
Carnist bingo check list -
Try and justify why they eat meat on a thread aimed at vegans- Tick Try and make jokes instead of fact check - Tick Try and spin the argument rather than just put their hands up and say 'I have no empathy towards animals' - tick Make a joke about eating more meat - Tick Call a vegan is militant just for telling them the harsh reality - Tick Use your animals as an example when you are more capable of understanding than them - Tick Lions tho?!? - Tick
The only thing I am surprised you haven't done yet is use the 'if you were stuck on an island would you eat meat?' question.
Other than that top marks fella.
This thread was created by a vegan to wind up omnivores.
If you don't know the difference between a carnivore and an omnivore then maybe get back under your little rock.
P.s
Medium Rare Steak with a home made cheese and chive sauce and steamed home grown beans and courgette with a side of shop bought potatoes.
On a scale of Vegan to Carnivore it sits right about OMNIVORE.
I called him a carnist.
Carnism is the invisible belief system, or ideology, that conditions people to eat certain animals. Carnism is essentially the opposite of veganism, as “carn” means “flesh” or “of the flesh” and “ism” refers to a belief system.
A name coined by vegans to refer to meat eaters. Where veganism is the philosophy that humans aren't better than animals and shouldn't be exploited, carnism is the philosophy that animals are inferior to humans and it's fine to eat them, test on them, use them for entertainment and the like.
So I think google would have been your friend with that one mate
- Start off calm. - Tell meat eaters they're morally wrong and meat is bad for you. - Get blown out the water on every point. - Play the victim.
Carnist bingo check list -
Try and justify why they eat meat on a thread aimed at vegans- Tick Try and make jokes instead of fact check - Tick Try and spin the argument rather than just put their hands up and say 'I have no empathy towards animals' - tick Make a joke about eating more meat - Tick Call a vegan is militant just for telling them the harsh reality - Tick Use your animals as an example when you are more capable of understanding than them - Tick Lions tho?!? - Tick
The only thing I am surprised you haven't done yet is use the 'if you were stuck on an island would you eat meat?' question.
Other than that top marks fella.
This thread was created by a vegan to wind up omnivores.
If you don't know the difference between a carnivore and an omnivore then maybe get back under your little rock.
P.s
Medium Rare Steak with a home made cheese and chive sauce and steamed home grown beans and courgette with a side of shop bought potatoes.
On a scale of Vegan to Carnivore it sits right about OMNIVORE.
I called him a carnist.
Carnism is the invisible belief system, or ideology, that conditions people to eat certain animals. Carnism is essentially the opposite of veganism, as “carn” means “flesh” or “of the flesh” and “ism” refers to a belief system.
A name coined by vegans to refer to meat eaters. Where veganism is the philosophy that humans aren't better than animals and shouldn't be exploited, carnism is the philosophy that animals are inferior to humans and it's fine to eat them, test on them, use them for entertainment and the like.
So I think google would have been your friend with that one mate
... I think people in white coats would be your friends...
Comments
Might want to try it next week.
Can't speak for others and I don't have ideas of a vegan world but my issues with the meat industry (and the reason I'm currently vegan) is the way animals are treated in farms. My father in law has hens and I don't have an ethical problem with eating them, I just don't like egg.
Here's a link: https://e-activist.com/page/18237/data/1
day 1 baked potato with beans
day 2 toast with jam
day 3 tin of peaches
day 4 avocado on toast
day 5 cornflakes with water
day 6 rice and beans with green vegetables
day 7 gnocchi with pine nuts and olive oil
Think on day 5 I’d’ve rather gone hungry.
When I meant tin hat I was aiming that at myself mate, if I said my beliefs and opinons on why meat eating is recommended I can't see that going down well, hence why I keep saying people should watch a documentary to hear it from experts and not myself haha
Mind you I think those figures are possibly lower than the reality, but I can't point to definitive proof.
Get yourself to YouTube and search for Bosh, Happy Pear and Avant Garde Vegan channels. You’ll find some easy to follow recipes that will hit the spot.
If you really want to give a try a 10 minute google and a fucking stove will see you right. See if you like it, see if it makes you feel better than before. If not, no harm done.
Now I’m off to enjoy the rest of my evening without this predictable bullshit.
You can be healthy and eat meat obviously, the majority of the fittest people on earth eat meat. There is no doubt that it damages your body though if ate frequently, an example sources of lead were found in some protein drinks before but wasn't damaging the drinkers because of the small dose, a higher consumption would have. It's similar to eating meat, in moderation probably won't kill you but a high consumption will increase your chances of the things I said earlier.
A vegan gets all the same nutrients, vitamins a meat eater does except B12. So you have to make up from that, other than that you can equal anything else a meat eater eats. Especially protein as that's the one most people try and bring up
Carnism is the invisible belief system, or ideology, that conditions people to eat certain animals. Carnism is essentially the opposite of veganism, as “carn” means “flesh” or “of the flesh” and “ism” refers to a belief system.
A name coined by vegans to refer to meat eaters. Where veganism is the philosophy that humans aren't better than animals and shouldn't be exploited, carnism is the philosophy that animals are inferior to humans and it's fine to eat them, test on them, use them for entertainment and the like.
So I think google would have been your friend with that one mate
And I'm not talking about butchers