If vegans are against all use of animals I assume they are against having pets? If not, how is that different to using donkeys down a mine?
I’ve sent one of my cats up the chimney to retrieve a pigeon that had got stuck once but only cos next door wouldn’t lend me their three year old child. Usually he just sleeps on my bed.
An article published today in The Guardian advises urgent reduction of the livestock industry. [Link to article below]
Europe’s animal farming sector has exceeded safe bounds for greenhouse gas emissions, nutrient flows and biodiversity loss, and urgently needs to be scaled back, according to a major report.
Pressure on livestock farmers is set to intensify this century as global population and income growth raises demand for meat-based products beyond the planet’s capacity to supply it.
The paper’s co-author, Professor Allan Buckwell, endorses a Greenpeace call for halving meat and dairy production by 2050, and his report’s broadside is squarely aimed at the heart of the EU’s policy establishment.
An article published today in The Guardian advises urgent reduction of the livestock industry. [Link to article below]
Europe’s animal farming sector has exceeded safe bounds for greenhouse gas emissions, nutrient flows and biodiversity loss, and urgently needs to be scaled back, according to a major report.
Pressure on livestock farmers is set to intensify this century as global population and income growth raises demand for meat-based products beyond the planet’s capacity to supply it.
The paper’s co-author, Professor Allan Buckwell, endorses a Greenpeace call for halving meat and dairy production by 2050, and his report’s broadside is squarely aimed at the heart of the EU’s policy establishment.
All makes sense from an agricultural economics and environmental perspective - animal welfare isn't a relevant factor apart from cruelty won't happen because they won't be born.
Here's another balanced argument for the pros and cons of a vegetarian world.
Animal welfare is a central factor. Much of the suffering that occurs results from the misery of denial of 'natural order / natural environment'. For instance, a calf being separated from its mother [the milk being taken for human benefit]. Both mother and calf suffer. Think also of the cramped conditions many 'factory-farmed' animals are kept in, e.g. poultry. I wrote about this not long after this thread commenced.
We have the ability to reduce, or remove, such abuse from our lives. An increasing number of people are realising this and are ditching meat and dairy.
Guardian article: Seven ways to approach going vegan
If you’re thinking of joining the 3.5m British people who eat only plants, take things slowly at first, brace yourself for judgment and start reading food labels properly
People eating vegan and living for longer is irresponsible! you'll be thanking all us meat eaters for dying off early and not contributing to overpopulation!
Guardian article: Seven ways to approach going vegan
If you’re thinking of joining the 3.5m British people who eat only plants, take things slowly at first, brace yourself for judgment and start reading food labels properly
So the footfall outside changes. Make vegetarian and vegan pies then. Stay in business. Simple. I'd go for that as long as it's not the lazy choice-cheese and onion pies.
My wife and sons would agree - I have to have Manze pies and liquor delivered on a regular basis and my youngest was actually tucking into double pie and mash last night.
My wife and sons would agree - I have to have Manze pies and liquor delivered on a regular basis and my youngest was actually tucking into double pie and mash last night.
Hate the stuff!
Can't beat Manzes and I also have regular deliveries due to not being able to get to a shop regularly enough.
Arments is also another very good P&M shop. Not sure if they deliver or not.
My wife and sons would agree - I have to have Manze pies and liquor delivered on a regular basis and my youngest was actually tucking into double pie and mash last night.
Hate the stuff!
Can't beat Manzes and I also have regular deliveries due to not being able to get to a shop regularly enough.
Arments is also another very good P&M shop. Not sure if they deliver or not.
Be assured that I love a good pie (as my waist line testifies) but Manzes pies are too soggy and the mincemeat filling is definitely not to my taste. My wife indoctrinated our two before I had a chance to stop here and whenever we get a delivery up here in deepest darkest Cheshire the boys somehow have a habit of coming around for dinner far more often. Maybe that's my wife's strategy as I see them both every day Mon-Fri.
Its a well known fact that you can't have pie & mash unless you tell every single person you know.
Most overrated food on earth.
and i know the exact type of cnuts that go usually with a flat cap on whilst they eat it, tbh i dont eat it too often really have to be in the mood for it.
From The Big Issue 'Food Special' 1st October 2018
Chris Packham: Here’s why I’m going vegan
Like many people in the world, I have had an interest in how what I eat impacts on the environment and on myself for a long time. I was brought up as an omnivore, but in my early 20s stopped eating meat after being pestered by Michaela Strachan – this is when we were doing The Really Wild Show. There was a thing called Veggie Pledge Week, where you pledge not to eat meat for a week. I only ate meat twice more, so I have not eaten meat, with no regrets whatsoever, since the 1980s.
But I continue to have concerns about animal welfare and transportation. I don’t see any difference between the way I should treat my dog – who I love and whose wellbeing I’m preoccupied with – and a pig, who is just as intelligent and important as Scratchy, but is kept in a concrete pen where it can’t turn around. The progress we have made on animal welfare standards is nowhere near good enough for me. I am joining Compassion In World Farming as a patron very soon, because it is really important.
So we come to veganism. In the 1980s, when I started my vegetarian diet, it was a niche, hippy thing, seen as a dietary extreme. That was a great shame – had the movement then had the proactive members it has now, it would have grown more quickly. But whatever.
What we’re seeing now is a rapid expansion of veganism, particularly among the younger generation. They are embracing it. They have greater awareness and the heartening thing is that rather than ignore that education they have embraced it.
One problem is the didactic nature by which veganism is presented. Either you are vegan or not. In a realistic sense, that is the case. But whether you are a meat eater or already vegetarian, what is important is a trend towards the next step. If you still eat meat, try cutting down to twice a week and see how you feel. Then you might cut down to once a week or a couple of times a month and might start to feel you’re better off without it and can go vegetarian.
If you are vegetarian, why not cut down on dairy? People who aren’t quite 100 per cent vegan, like me, get criticised because we haven’t taken that final step. We shouldn’t discourage people from moving in the right direction. Veganism needs to be more open, it needs to say, come on, join us, but do it in steps if that suits you.
That’s the state I am in when it comes to veganism. I have coconut, soya and oat milk in my fridge. I often have almond as well. We don’t have any dairy in the fridge any more. The last time I had cheese was before Springwatch in May. This is the longest I’ve ever gone without cheese! That is a personal milestone. So the trend is there. I reckon by Christmas, myself and my partner will have got there. But it has taken a few years.
It is the direction of travel that is important. Every year The Vegan Society contacts me in December to ask if I fancy doing Veganuary. This year I am going to pre-empt them, because I will probably already be there by then.
Charlton fan Roger Godsiff MP asked a question to government on the issue. (The response backed the status quo).
To: Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Re. Horse Racing: Animal Welfare: Written Question # 174615
Question asked by Mr Roger Godsiff MP (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Labour) Asked on: 13 September 2018
To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, how many times officials in (a) his Department and (b) other Government Departments have met with the British Horseracing Authority in (a) 2016, (b) 2017 and (c) 2018 to date to discuss horse deaths on racecourses.
Answered by: David Rutley MP (Macclesfield) (Conservative) Answered on: 15 October 2018
Whilst officials have not met representatives of the British Horseracing Authority (BHA) to discuss racehorse fatalities during the years stated, I am aware that the BHA work alongside animal welfare organisations, such as the RSPCA, and regularly review the safety of racetracks and where necessary, make improvements. The Government is satisfied that the BHA work to make horseracing as safe as possible.
Note: Animal Aid’s horsedeathwatch.com/ website lists 136 horse deaths that have occurred on British racecourses (either during or after a race) in 2018.
Praise and criticism for BHA as MPs debate equine welfare regulator • Labour members want change but government opposed • Minister recognises body’s efforts but calls for more
Comments
Europe’s animal farming sector has exceeded safe bounds for greenhouse gas emissions, nutrient flows and biodiversity loss, and urgently needs to be scaled back, according to a major report.
Pressure on livestock farmers is set to intensify this century as global population and income growth raises demand for meat-based products beyond the planet’s capacity to supply it.
The paper’s co-author, Professor Allan Buckwell, endorses a Greenpeace call for halving meat and dairy production by 2050, and his report’s broadside is squarely aimed at the heart of the EU’s policy establishment.
https://theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/15/europe-meat-dairy-production-2050-expert-warns
Here's another balanced argument for the pros and cons of a vegetarian world.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160926-what-would-happen-if-the-world-suddenly-went-vegetarian
For instance, a calf being separated from its mother [the milk being taken for human benefit]. Both mother and calf suffer. Think also of the cramped conditions many 'factory-farmed' animals are kept in, e.g. poultry.
I wrote about this not long after this thread commenced.
We have the ability to reduce, or remove, such abuse from our lives. An increasing number of people are realising this and are ditching meat and dairy.
If you’re thinking of joining the 3.5m British people who eat only plants, take things slowly at first, brace yourself for judgment and start reading food labels properly
https://theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/sep/16/seven-ways-to-approach-veganism
Pity though as you can’t beat a bit of pie and mash.
The Greenwich shop is awful.
Just adding to the totally balanced view of links in this thread.
Make vegetarian and vegan pies then.
Stay in business.
Simple.
I'd go for that as long as it's not the lazy choice-cheese and onion pies.
Hate the stuff!
Arments is also another very good P&M shop. Not sure if they deliver or not.
Haters will say it's wrong... Obviously.
https://wellnessforce.com/resource/the-science-of-why-vegans-get-sick/
Most overrated food on earth.
Chris Packham: Here’s why I’m going vegan
Like many people in the world, I have had an interest in how what I eat impacts on the environment and on myself for a long time. I was brought up as an omnivore, but in my early 20s stopped eating meat after being pestered by Michaela Strachan – this is when we were doing The Really Wild Show. There was a thing called Veggie Pledge Week, where you pledge not to eat meat for a week. I only ate meat twice more, so I have not eaten meat, with no regrets whatsoever, since the 1980s.
But I continue to have concerns about animal welfare and transportation. I don’t see any difference between the way I should treat my dog – who I love and whose wellbeing I’m preoccupied with – and a pig, who is just as intelligent and important as Scratchy, but is kept in a concrete pen where it can’t turn around. The progress we have made on animal welfare standards is nowhere near good enough for me. I am joining Compassion In World Farming as a patron very soon, because it is really important.
So we come to veganism. In the 1980s, when I started my vegetarian diet, it was a niche, hippy thing, seen as a dietary extreme. That was a great shame – had the movement then had the proactive members it has now, it would have grown more quickly. But whatever.
What we’re seeing now is a rapid expansion of veganism, particularly among the younger generation. They are embracing it. They have greater awareness and the heartening thing is that rather than ignore that education they have embraced it.
One problem is the didactic nature by which veganism is presented. Either you are vegan or not. In a realistic sense, that is the case. But whether you are a meat eater or already vegetarian, what is important is a trend towards the next step. If you still eat meat, try cutting down to twice a week and see how you feel. Then you might cut down to once a week or a couple of times a month and might start to feel you’re better off without it and can go vegetarian.
If you are vegetarian, why not cut down on dairy? People who aren’t quite 100 per cent vegan, like me, get criticised because we haven’t taken that final step. We shouldn’t discourage people from moving in the right direction. Veganism needs to be more open, it needs to say, come on, join us, but do it in steps if that suits you.
That’s the state I am in when it comes to veganism. I have coconut, soya and oat milk in my fridge. I often have almond as well. We don’t have any dairy in the fridge any more. The last time I had cheese was before Springwatch in May. This is the longest I’ve ever gone without cheese! That is a personal milestone. So the trend is there. I reckon by Christmas, myself and my partner will have got there. But it has taken a few years.
It is the direction of travel that is important. Every year The Vegan Society contacts me in December to ask if I fancy doing Veganuary. This year I am going to pre-empt them, because I will probably already be there by then.
https://www.bigissue.com/latest/food/chris-packham-heres-why-im-going-vegan/
chrispackham.co.uk/a-peoples-manifesto-for-wildlife
The retreat from meat:
Why people in rich countries are eating more vegan food
https://economist.com/briefing/2018/10/13/why-people-in-rich-countries-are-eating-more-vegan-food?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/whypeopleinrichcountriesareeatingmoreveganfoodtheretreatfrommeat
Charlton fan Roger Godsiff MP asked a question to government on the issue.
(The response backed the status quo).
To: Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Re. Horse Racing: Animal Welfare: Written Question # 174615
Question asked by Mr Roger Godsiff MP (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Labour)
Asked on: 13 September 2018
To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, how many times officials in (a) his Department and (b) other Government Departments have met with the British Horseracing Authority in (a) 2016, (b) 2017 and (c) 2018 to date to discuss horse deaths on racecourses.
Answered by: David Rutley MP (Macclesfield) (Conservative)
Answered on: 15 October 2018
Whilst officials have not met representatives of the British Horseracing Authority (BHA) to discuss racehorse fatalities during the years stated, I am aware that the BHA work alongside animal welfare organisations, such as the RSPCA, and regularly review the safety of racetracks and where necessary, make improvements. The Government is satisfied that the BHA work to make horseracing as safe as possible.
Note: Animal Aid’s horsedeathwatch.com/ website lists 136 horse deaths that have occurred on British racecourses (either during or after a race) in 2018.
Praise and criticism for BHA as MPs debate equine welfare regulator
• Labour members want change but government opposed
• Minister recognises body’s efforts but calls for more
https://theguardian.com/sport/2018/oct/15/praise-criticism-bha-mps-debate-equine-welfare-regulator