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Extension of ULEZ to South Circular
Comments
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Pure speculation on your part there. We know that the sale of petrol vehicles will be stopped in the medium term so naturally that starts to filter down anyway.ForeverAddickted said:
You say more and more people will become compliant but I still won't put it past them to keep changing the rules so if your car is fine now, I bet it wont in X number of years... Money goes into both the Government, and the car industry... Its a win/win for anyone bar the people who need to drive.colthe3rd said:
Well given TFLs budget is something like £10 billion, the forecast for ULEZ revenue was £100m and given that figure is expected to fall each year as more people become compliant I'd argue it isn't only to do with generating money, however clearly TFL does need to find more ways to fund itself so that's not exactly a bad thing especially if it's going to lead to cleaner air. I can't see what the issue is.DaveMehmet said:Only reason this has been introduced is to plug the financial hole that TFL are in. Fuck all to do with environmental concerns.
Thankfully all our cars are compliant, including my classic which is exempt.
It's such a weird argument to have, I'm assuming that you aren't a climate change denier and you also accept that burning petrol and diesel causes health implications to the general public. London is also a very congested city so something has to be done to tackle this, yes some people will be impacted negatively by these rules but what's the alternative? Do nothing? Let's completely gridlock the roads, let's keep increasing the number of people with diseases caused by pollution and in turn deaths?2 -
Is the right answer.paulbaconsarnie said:It’s always been about making money.
if it was about health then why don’t they totally ban uncompliant vehicles rather than give permission to anyone who can afford it to drive through in whatever they want,8 -
Never had a credit card, and prefer to use cash if it’s only a couple of pounds rather than a debit card.Covered End said:
You don't use credit or debit cards?cafckev said:I haven’t been on a bus since they stopped taking cash. I am sure I am not the only occasional user who hasn’t used one in years purely for the no cash taken system. Maybe reintroduce it, and see if that helps
Did you stop going to Charlton as well when they went cashless?I don’t buy anything in the ground, so that hasn’t bothered me in the slightest1 -
You haven’t missed muchcafckev said:
Never had a credit card, and prefer to use cash if it’s only a couple of pounds rather than a debit card.Covered End said:
You don't use credit or debit cards?cafckev said:I haven’t been on a bus since they stopped taking cash. I am sure I am not the only occasional user who hasn’t used one in years purely for the no cash taken system. Maybe reintroduce it, and see if that helps
Did you stop going to Charlton as well when they went cashless?I don’t buy anything in the ground, so that hasn’t bothered me in the slightest1 -
Same here, never had a credit card and never considered a debit card if the purchase is under a fiver. Cash is king.cafckev said:
Never had a credit card, and prefer to use cash if it’s only a couple of pounds rather than a debit card.Covered End said:
You don't use credit or debit cards?cafckev said:I haven’t been on a bus since they stopped taking cash. I am sure I am not the only occasional user who hasn’t used one in years purely for the no cash taken system. Maybe reintroduce it, and see if that helps
Did you stop going to Charlton as well when they went cashless?I don’t buy anything in the ground, so that hasn’t bothered me in the slightest0 -
No government of any hue willingly loses income. In due course electric vehicle drivers will be obliged to pay a charge of some description to cover the income no longer coming from petrol and diesel vehicles.colthe3rd said:
Pure speculation on your part there. We know that the sale of petrol vehicles will be stopped in the medium term so naturally that starts to filter down anyway.ForeverAddickted said:
You say more and more people will become compliant but I still won't put it past them to keep changing the rules so if your car is fine now, I bet it wont in X number of years... Money goes into both the Government, and the car industry... Its a win/win for anyone bar the people who need to drive.colthe3rd said:
Well given TFLs budget is something like £10 billion, the forecast for ULEZ revenue was £100m and given that figure is expected to fall each year as more people become compliant I'd argue it isn't only to do with generating money, however clearly TFL does need to find more ways to fund itself so that's not exactly a bad thing especially if it's going to lead to cleaner air. I can't see what the issue is.DaveMehmet said:Only reason this has been introduced is to plug the financial hole that TFL are in. Fuck all to do with environmental concerns.
Thankfully all our cars are compliant, including my classic which is exempt.
It's such a weird argument to have, I'm assuming that you aren't a climate change denier and you also accept that burning petrol and diesel causes health implications to the general public. London is also a very congested city so something has to be done to tackle this, yes some people will be impacted negatively by these rules but what's the alternative? Do nothing? Let's completely gridlock the roads, let's keep increasing the number of people with diseases caused by pollution and in turn deaths?3 -
Easy for me to say seen as my motor is ULEZ compliant, but I don’t really mind this clean air stuff, at least when they nick money off us now it’s for a decent cause.
What I think in terms of policy and how it’s implemented, I think it goes way way above the mayor’s remit, this is stuff they discuss at the G7 summits, these are clearly objectives that come from collective governments, so whilst khan is the easy face to get the hump with, he’s pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
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Road pricing will eventually be the way ahead, and hard to argue against it. Who drives most pays most, at least until the far off day when nobody owns a car and we just subscribe to a driverless system of vehicles to be used as needed. Much more efficient when you consider how many hours a day every car stands idle currently.
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Indeed, there will have to be a replacement for the current tax on petrol and diesel.IdleHans said:Road pricing will eventually be the way ahead, and hard to argue against it. Who drives most pays most, at least until the far off day when nobody owns a car and we just subscribe to a driverless system of vehicles to be used as needed. Much more efficient when you consider how many hours a day every car stands idle currently.
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Not really. There's always going to be a certain level of harmful particulates that come out of the exhaust so they can't reduce it beyond a certain level in practice, but the permissible levels have been reduced almost year on year for a long time.addick1956 said:None of this explains why buses can prowl the streets all day and all night churning out particulates from 11 litre engines or why The Mayor insists on a 24 hour economy with the air in London getting no ' breathing space' as it were. Then there is the trouble with particulates from disc pads . My car actually allows me to set the brakes to regenerate more electricity by having the brakes gently touching the discs in town !
Anyway since 2017 all town centres ha e had the possibility to charge entry to vehicles considered too polluting.
As someone said, it all points to extra taxation rather than attempting to arrive at a solution.
All cars are tested for pollution each year but according to government controlled MOTs but somehow that isn't good enough and I fir one find that puzzling.
There are some anomalies, for example the way to get certain diesel cars through if they can't meet the level on the manufacturer's label is simply to peel off the label. Then the permissible limit is, in the case of an x-type at least, about two and a half times higher than the makers limit. Bizarre.0 - Sponsored links:
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They don'taddick1956 said:None of this explains why buses can prowl the streets all day and all night churning out particulates from 11 litre engines or why The Mayor insists on a 24 hour economy with the air in London getting no ' breathing space' as it were. Then there is the trouble with particulates from disc pads . My car actually allows me to set the brakes to regenerate more electricity by having the brakes gently touching the discs in town !
Anyway since 2017 all town centres ha e had the possibility to charge entry to vehicles considered too polluting.
As someone said, it all points to extra taxation rather than attempting to arrive at a solution.
All cars are tested for pollution each year but according to government controlled MOTs but somehow that isn't good enough and I fir one find that puzzling.
Buses have much smaller engines these days, a lot of them are diesel electric hybrids, and a small but increasing number of them are electric1 -
Out of a fleet of 9000 buses run by TFL 39O0 are hybrids, 490 are electric and two are run on hydrogen. That leaves about 50% being diesel.0
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A diminishing number. And all are Euro 6 anywayDansk_Red said:Out of a fleet of 9000 buses run by TFL 39O0 are hybrids, 490 are electric and two are run on hydrogen. That leaves about 50% being diesel.0 -
Less buses is not the solution to the climate crisis, bizarre comment8
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I welcome the expansion, indeed it shouldn’t be down to local politicians. There should be 100% of roads nationally subject to this.2
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So, anyone who is unfortunate enough to own a diesel registered before September 2015 will have to pay £12.50 a day just to have it on the road…..which includes parking on a public road!iainment said:I welcome the expansion, indeed it shouldn’t be down to local politicians. There should be 100% of roads nationally subject to this.
Their car will become worthless overnight.
I don’t think you’ve thought this through Iain.🙄
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1. It won't be overnightSoundAsa£ said:
So, anyone who is unfortunate enough to own a diesel registered before September 2015 will have to pay £12.50 a day just to have it on the road…..which includes parking on a public road!iainment said:I welcome the expansion, indeed it shouldn’t be down to local politicians. There should be 100% of roads nationally subject to this.
Their car will become worthless overnight.
I don’t think you’ve thought this through Iain.🙄
2. How much do you think a vehicle like that is worth now?0 -
Well…..that depends on the type, make or model of the car and where you live of course……millions of drivers who have such a vehicle never come anywhere near London and at present they aren’t affected.colthe3rd said:
1. It won't be overnightSoundAsa£ said:
So, anyone who is unfortunate enough to own a diesel registered before September 2015 will have to pay £12.50 a day just to have it on the road…..which includes parking on a public road!iainment said:I welcome the expansion, indeed it shouldn’t be down to local politicians. There should be 100% of roads nationally subject to this.
Their car will become worthless overnight.
I don’t think you’ve thought this through Iain.🙄
2. How much do you think a vehicle like that is worth now?0 -
Bring it in gradually with notice. As the old saying goes you can’t make an omelette without breaking an egg.SoundAsa£ said:
So, anyone who is unfortunate enough to own a diesel registered before September 2015 will have to pay £12.50 a day just to have it on the road…..which includes parking on a public road!iainment said:I welcome the expansion, indeed it shouldn’t be down to local politicians. There should be 100% of roads nationally subject to this.
Their car will become worthless overnight.
I don’t think you’ve thought this through Iain.🙄
Certainly in most big cities most people don’t need a car.0 -
The charge only applies if you drive it. Leaving it parked outside your house won't get a charge.SoundAsa£ said:
So, anyone who is unfortunate enough to own a diesel registered before September 2015 will have to pay £12.50 a day just to have it on the road…..which includes parking on a public road!iainment said:I welcome the expansion, indeed it shouldn’t be down to local politicians. There should be 100% of roads nationally subject to this.
Their car will become worthless overnight.
I don’t think you’ve thought this through Iain.🙄
It's also happened in Portsmouth and Manchester and Birmingham are planning schemes even if they haven't done so yet.0 - Sponsored links:
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How on earth would they know if you have driven it?rananegra said:
The charge only applies if you drive it. Leaving it parked outside your house won't get a charge.SoundAsa£ said:
So, anyone who is unfortunate enough to own a diesel registered before September 2015 will have to pay £12.50 a day just to have it on the road…..which includes parking on a public road!iainment said:I welcome the expansion, indeed it shouldn’t be down to local politicians. There should be 100% of roads nationally subject to this.
Their car will become worthless overnight.
I don’t think you’ve thought this through Iain.🙄
It's also happened in Portsmouth and Manchester and Birmingham are planning schemes even if they haven't done so yet.
They would have to have many hundreds of thousands of cameras all over the country in every street in every town and village.
You say parked outside your house, how on earth can the authorities determine that without observing your vehicle being moved from wherever it’s parked, and what if it’s not parked outside your house (as you are suggesting) or indeed anywhere near it?
They only have cameras on entry and exit points, so once inside the zone you can drive down to the local shops for example or right across London and not be monitored/detected on LEZ cameras as to what journey you are making, no matter how long or short the journey. Maybe you haven’t realised that you are only monitored on entry and exit.
Have you really thought about this……I think not.😵💫1 -
I love a popcorn moment0
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So who's going to break it to him?1
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I have to ask. What 'Climate crisis'? Would that be the same as the 'Covid Crisis'?jacob_CAFC said:Less buses is not the solution to the climate crisis, bizarre comment
Bunch of wankers guessing and scaring the crap out of everyone, so they'll do as they are told. Meanwhile, making gazillions for the usual suspects. Same shit different day.
Got to LOL, right?3 -
Absolutely, there’s been zero environmental changes over the last few decades and absolutely no one died of covid.Major said:
I have to ask. What 'Climate crisis'? Would that be the same as the 'Covid Crisis'?jacob_CAFC said:Less buses is not the solution to the climate crisis, bizarre comment
Bunch of wankers guessing and scaring the crap out of everyone, so they'll do as they are told. Meanwhile, making gazillions for the usual suspects. Same shit different day.
Got to LOL, right?
Those sneaky lizard people are tricking us all, over and over again, I’m sick of it.10 -
I see this as similar to the banning of smoking in public places, and the increasing tax levies on tobacco. Seems draconian at first, but you gradually get used to it, and it turns out to be a good thing.6
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I love this ‘so people will do as they’re told’ line. As if there’s some sort of conspiracy involving the 1.4 million people who work in the NHS and ‘the elite’ to somehow ‘control everything we do’. Isn’t it incredible how nothing has ever comes out in the press about it? That’s the press that’s owned by the very people who spread this sort of nonsense btw. There have been zero whistle blowers, and that's because there isn't a conspiracy.Major said:
I have to ask. What 'Climate crisis'? Would that be the same as the 'Covid Crisis'?jacob_CAFC said:Less buses is not the solution to the climate crisis, bizarre comment
Bunch of wankers guessing and scaring the crap out of everyone, so they'll do as they are told. Meanwhile, making gazillions for the usual suspects. Same shit different day.
Got to LOL, right?It’s a shame how many people fall for this stuff. Once they fall for one conspiracy theory it’s just a matter of time before they start blaming George Soros for everything, thinking the world is actually flat and believing that Trump is here to rescue the world from satanic pedophiles like Hilary Clinton.The Russians love these guys.
FactCheck.org is an organisation worth following if you have any worries about this stuff: https://www.factcheck.org/issue/conspiracy-theories/11 -
‘these cars are evil and must be banned - unless you pay us some cash - then you are fine, carry on, nothing to see here’2
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Not at all. Just highlighting the hypocrisy0
