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CHARLTON 2 PLYMOUTH 1 - 22/09/18 - POST MATCH THREAD

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  • Good game. Not a fan of Reeves but he was everywhere yesterday . Sometimes his passes don't come off , but he is growing on me finally .
  • edited September 2018
    The team played some fine attacking football yesterday with sleek movement.
    All the players were involved in this including Ward for those who didn't notice.
    I can't see us keeping many clean sheets so we will need to score 2 or 3 goals for the victories.
    With all the turmoil going on its amazing how well Lee Bowyer and JJ are doing.
    Playing 2 strikers is so obvious at League 1 level that any combination of 4-4-2, 3-5-2
    4-3-1-2, you do the Maths as long as there are TWO strikers in the box to score the tap ins.
    Surely only the soft scouser scallywag doesn't realize this.
    Let's be clear, karlan Grant didn't have a great game yesterday But he scored 2 goals by being a poacher. That's what I want from a striker. We now have 2 forwards who can score goals. Long may it last.
  • Anybody know how the Civil Service Strollers did today?

    Not that I give a Shit just making Conversation.
    Speaking to yourself is the first sign of madness, apparently ?
  • Davo55 said:

    Also watched on iFollow.

    Some great, slick passing and interplay especially in the first half. Deserved the win although Plymouth looked anything but a team that is bottom of the league. Tough tackling, high energy and quite skilful going forward. Carey in particular is a very good player and I would love us to go in for him if possible - he could do well in the Championship even, which is where I hope we'll be (Roland free) next season.

    I don't get the bitching about Naby Sarr on the match thread. He has cut out the silly mistakes, gave a dependable defensive display and passes the ball out of defence better than any of our other defenders. Time to cut him some slack.

    Aribo was especially good in the first half but he tired badly in the second and was nowhere near as effective. I thought Lapslie might have come on to replace him to give some energy to the midfield, but you can never argue too much with four wins on the bounce.

    Agree about Sarr. Was my first game of the season and the first time I had seen him play a full 90 minutes. Although I had seen comments that he is prone to mistakes, I only recall one today in the first half where he dived in for tackle he was never going to make near the centre circle and Plymouth broke away. On the plus side I thought his passing was excellent and if he gets a decent run of games in Bauer's absence in a team that is doing well, it could give him a lot of confidence.

    More than just that one mistake. Lost possession again in a similar position a few minutes later and gave the ball away just outside the box twice with poor clearances that went to a Plymouth player.

    He did some good stuff too, when forwards give him space he can pick out some good passes, he was more aggressive and should have had a penalty but he needs to cut out those sort of mistakes.
    Yes, but he wasn't the only one who made some poor clearances over the course of the game. Hopefully, with more game time and experience he will cut those out.
  • Now back in California and I watched the game on iFollow.

    I felt this was an enormous game for Charlton to win. We went down a goal after dominating the early minutes without having any real bite. Lots of fancy passing but not much else so, in some ways, I wasn't surprised we let an early goal in. Call it lack of concentration and focus at the back. So,it said a lot about this team that within 2 minutes we had equalized. Any good team will just pick it up a gear if they have to and we did. So, back to parity and then the real game began. Charlton had more focus but Plymouth were no slouches and looked tidy in the middle without really testing our keeper.

    From then on I felt it was mostly us pushing but, like I said, Plymouth gave a bit as well. So, as the 2nd half progressed we had a penalty saved, hit the bar and post and had at least one cleared off the line after goal mouth scrambles and I was starting to think it just wasn't our day. I even messaged my mate who was at the game and said "Maybe it's not their day" (meaning us) but then we scored. That is why this was an enormous win because, in spite of all the bad luck and misses, we kept plugging on and got what we deserved. A sign of a strong team which will only get better in my opinion. Shades of the steel of Bowyer there.

    As for the players. I think Steer is solid in goal. He didn't have much to do but what he did have he handled it well. Both Solly and Page were solid. Not spectacular either of them but put in a good shift. Pearce was enormous and I think him being back has what has galvanised our improvement. He is solid at the back and always makes himself available. I'm not so much a fan of Sarr. He's a big lump which must be quite intimidating. He's not bad with the ball at his feet and his passing is not bad for such a big lad. But, for me, he seems slow and only a play away from making a howler. I do think his positional sense is pretty good but, often, his headed clearances for example are pretty weak.

    I think the midfield had a solid game. Cullen & Ward, not spectacular, but went about what they needed to do. I think they'll be a huge influence for us. Reeves put himself about a bit but I think his final distribution and decisions are his weak points. Aribo was all over the place. Lots of energy but a little bit like Bambi on Ice sometimes. The jury is still out for me on Aribo.

    And, up front, I think both KAG and Taylor had good games and are starting to forge a good partnership. Taylor was unlucky with the penalty as he hit it well and the goalkeeper made a good save and knocked it onto the post I think it was. And, what impressed me about KAG was his speed. He just looks so much sharper than he has in the past. He looks hungry. Finally, I think Igor is a good foil to bring on from the bench. He gives the opposition something different to contend with. It'll be nice for him to get a goal and then we'll see what he can do. The key with Igor is not to exhaust him and to keep him fit.

    So, a really satisfying win that we totally deserved. We kept plugging away and we did it. And with Bielik and Fosu soon to come back that will only help.

    Well done Bows.
  • Loved it , all i want from the team is a little bit of effort, and pride in putting on that red shirt. Was a bit patchy at times but the lads kept going. Respect to the Plymouth fans, thats a mare of a journey even more so when you are bottom. The young lad that had the ball when Taylor said "slow down" did great.
  • Sage said:

    Scoham said:

    Fosu back next week right? Who drops out for him? i’m afraid its karlan

    Great idea, drop him after a brace. Let's destroy his confidence. It's only September and he's already scored more for us than in any season.

    Fosu's a very good player but needs to earn his place.

    For once we have two strikers both scoring goals. Why would anyone want to break that partnership up?
    Madness, ain’t it.

    Fosu will be on the bench in place of Morgan next week, we may even have Bielik back which will be a boost
    too.

    Karlan and Lyle up top is fantastic at the moment and can guarantee opposition teams defences are scared of them, you got muscle and work rate, you got pace and the eagerness to get in behind, you got the ability to drop off and they’re bang in form.

    Same team next week, Fosu and Bielik on the bench, looking strong. Well done Bows.
    Instead of Ajose for me assuming Igor is on the bench as another striker option.
  • Do yellow cards get wiped at some point? Not that I think Taylor can control himself for too many games!

    Not till February / March time usually as far as I know
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  • LenGlover said:

    Sage said:

    Scoham said:

    Fosu back next week right? Who drops out for him? i’m afraid its karlan

    Great idea, drop him after a brace. Let's destroy his confidence. It's only September and he's already scored more for us than in any season.

    Fosu's a very good player but needs to earn his place.

    For once we have two strikers both scoring goals. Why would anyone want to break that partnership up?
    Madness, ain’t it.

    Fosu will be on the bench in place of Morgan next week, we may even have Bielik back which will be a boost
    too.

    Karlan and Lyle up top is fantastic at the moment and can guarantee opposition teams defences are scared of them, you got muscle and work rate, you got pace and the eagerness to get in behind, you got the ability to drop off and they’re bang in form.

    Same team next week, Fosu and Bielik on the bench, looking strong. Well done Bows.
    Instead of Ajose for me assuming Igor is on the bench as another striker option.
    We’ll see next week, but assuming everyone who was in the squad today is fit, I am sure Fosu will come in for Morgan.
  • edited September 2018

    It's interesting how many different views there are of how certain players performed. Here and on the players' marks thread, it sounds like we had to Reeveses playing for us, one great and one poor to awful.

    I can see why. Reeves had a lot of the ball and he takes more time on the ball and often turns in a circle before doing anything with the ball.
    Yesterday, as always he tended to slow the game down.

    However, Plymouth, stood back and let Reeves perform, unlike most teams, who close him down sharpish and often take the ball off of him.

    So Reeves threaded through more passes than he's ever done for us and created more than he's ever done.
    Yet, at the same time, he did slow the game down, when it seemed we needed to fasten it up and he did still go round in circles, sometimes passing backwards, when perhaps he could have gone forward.
  • It's interesting how many different views there are of how certain players performed. Here and on the players' marks thread, it sounds like we had to Reeveses playing for us, one great and one poor to awful.

    I can see why. Reeves had a lot of the ball and he takes more time on the ball and often turns in a circle before doing anything with the ball. Yesterday, as always he tended to slow the game down.

    However, Plymouth, stood back and let Reeves perform. unlike most teams, who close him down sharpish and often take the ball off him.

    So Reeves threaded through more passes than he's ever done for us and created more than he's ever done.
    Yet, at the same time, he did slow the game down, when it seemed we needed to fasten it up and he did still go round in circles, sometimes passing backwards, when perhaps he could have gone forward.
    Wtf?
  • edited September 2018
    Scoham said:

    Thought KAG was poor overall - should have laid it to Taylor for a tap in and was sleeping when we hit the post and could've tapped in. If he can sort that out and keep scoring!! Needs someone to better coach him.

    KAG is now scoring and creating goals. Before this season he struggled to make an impact on the first team.

    He’s gone from being back up and loaned out to an important first team player. I’d say much of that is down to good coaching and management.
    Yeah, down to Harry Kewell according to Bow :smile:

  • Absolutely loving watching this bunch this season, over the moon Jeff

    I'm glad to see the positivity flowing these days AFKA.
  • Nothing to add except eieieio
  • Scoham said:

    Thought KAG was poor overall - should have laid it to Taylor for a tap in and was sleeping when we hit the post and could've tapped in. If he can sort that out and keep scoring!! Needs someone to better coach him.

    KAG is now scoring and creating goals. Before this season he struggled to make an impact on the first team.

    He’s gone from being back up and loaned out to an important first team player. I’d say much of that is down to good coaching and management.
    Yeah, down to Harry Kewell according to Bow :smile:

    I do think the part that Crawley loan played, while certainly not irrelevant, is a bit over played. Karlan was already finding some form and goals before he went on loan. He didn’t suddenly discover himself again at Crawley, he was just finally given a run of games as a striker (his actual position not no. 10 or on the wing) and show what he can do when confident, but he took confidence there with him rather then build on rather than needing to start from scratch. I don’t think he learnt anything he hadn’t already shown flashes of at the Valley, numerous managers just kept using him wrong. I think he’d have scored goals for us too last season if he’d been picked up front in a 2.

    Partly through a forced hand from injuries, Bowyer has just picked Karlan in his natural position, and in Taylor has signed the perfect kind of partner for him. Karlan is also now in his early 20s, the kid of age where strikers traditionally make the transition from youth team to full time first team member.

    I think he’s been one of our 3 or 4 best players this season. Why anyone would be even considering dropping him right now is completely beyond me, especially to shoe horn a player in who doesn’t even play the same position as Karlan.

    Reeves and Ward are the ones in competition with Fosu. And it might be a horses for courses type of decision for Bowyer based on the opposition because Fosu is such a threat carrying the ball and a great outlet when we are defending a lot, but Ward and Reeves have more vision and range of passing to create chances against deep lying defences. To break up the best performing strike pairing we’ve had for years would be utter madness though.
    I agree with most parts of this, but I do think there are a few things that isn’t right.

    He most certainly would’ve learnt a good amount on loan at Crawley. You can’t not learn when you have a manager who played the game at the highest level, alongside some fantastic strikers too. You also learn a great deal when you’re getting a run of games. What works and what doesn’t.

    Karlan when briefly in the team last season did well and scored as you mentioned, but he was quickly dropped or not given a run in the team. This would’ve knocked his confidence badly. More so as he is a confidence player, Bowyer has said as much only recently.

    I don’t think having him starting the season up front alongside Taylor was as due to injuries as you say. He was always going to be played as a striker, Bowyer said that’s where he sees him, up front, he said the same at Bromley Addicks last November. Bowyer was never going to start Taylor and Ajose up front together at the beginning and Vetokele was injured. So maybe it would’ve been Taylor and Vetokele but Grant was always next in line. He has just taken his chance and now making himself a player that won’t be replaced with his form.

    Finally, I believe if you count his Crawley loan spell from the end of last season, Karlan Grant now has scored 14 goals in 24 games. Carry on this form and we could have two strikers at the end of the season hitting, or nearly hitting, 20 goals.
  • It's interesting how many different views there are of how certain players performed. Here and on the players' marks thread, it sounds like we had to Reeveses playing for us, one great and one poor to awful.

    I can see why. Reeves had a lot of the ball and he takes more time on the ball and often turns in a circle before doing anything with the ball. Yesterday, as always he tended to slow the game down.

    However, Plymouth, stood back and let Reeves perform. unlike most teams, who close him down sharpish and often take the ball off him.

    So Reeves threaded through more passes than he's ever done for us and created more than he's ever done.
    Yet, at the same time, he did slow the game down, when it seemed we needed to fasten it up and he did still go round in circles, sometimes passing backwards, when perhaps he could have gone forward.
    I thought his first thought was to go forwards - sometimes he reconsidered and kept possession, turning around to give himself as many options as possible. He very rarely loses the ball IMO - a very tidy midfield recycler with an eye for a pass. Isn't that what we've lacked? I think he can do great things in this team and I look forward to seeing all these other teams trying to stifle him. I reckon they'll have a hard time.
  • LenGlover said:

    Do yellow cards get wiped at some point? Not that I think Taylor can control himself for too many games!

    Not till February / March time usually as far as I know
    I thought you had until December to pick up five yellows - If you avoid doing that then you have until March time to avoid getting ten yellows
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  • LenGlover said:

    Do yellow cards get wiped at some point? Not that I think Taylor can control himself for too many games!

    Not till February / March time usually as far as I know
    I thought you had until December to pick up five yellows - If you avoid doing that then you have until March time to avoid getting ten yellows
    That’s how I thought it worked.
  • Sage said:

    Scoham said:

    Thought KAG was poor overall - should have laid it to Taylor for a tap in and was sleeping when we hit the post and could've tapped in. If he can sort that out and keep scoring!! Needs someone to better coach him.

    KAG is now scoring and creating goals. Before this season he struggled to make an impact on the first team.

    He’s gone from being back up and loaned out to an important first team player. I’d say much of that is down to good coaching and management.
    Yeah, down to Harry Kewell according to Bow :smile:

    I do think the part that Crawley loan played, while certainly not irrelevant, is a bit over played. Karlan was already finding some form and goals before he went on loan. He didn’t suddenly discover himself again at Crawley, he was just finally given a run of games as a striker (his actual position not no. 10 or on the wing) and show what he can do when confident, but he took confidence there with him rather then build on rather than needing to start from scratch. I don’t think he learnt anything he hadn’t already shown flashes of at the Valley, numerous managers just kept using him wrong. I think he’d have scored goals for us too last season if he’d been picked up front in a 2.

    Partly through a forced hand from injuries, Bowyer has just picked Karlan in his natural position, and in Taylor has signed the perfect kind of partner for him. Karlan is also now in his early 20s, the kid of age where strikers traditionally make the transition from youth team to full time first team member.

    I think he’s been one of our 3 or 4 best players this season. Why anyone would be even considering dropping him right now is completely beyond me, especially to shoe horn a player in who doesn’t even play the same position as Karlan.

    Reeves and Ward are the ones in competition with Fosu. And it might be a horses for courses type of decision for Bowyer based on the opposition because Fosu is such a threat carrying the ball and a great outlet when we are defending a lot, but Ward and Reeves have more vision and range of passing to create chances against deep lying defences. To break up the best performing strike pairing we’ve had for years would be utter madness though.
    I agree with most parts of this, but I do think there are a few things that isn’t right.

    He most certainly would’ve learnt a good amount on loan at Crawley. You can’t not learn when you have a manager who played the game at the highest level, alongside some fantastic strikers too. You also learn a great deal when you’re getting a run of games. What works and what doesn’t.

    Karlan when briefly in the team last season did well and scored as you mentioned, but he was quickly dropped or not given a run in the team. This would’ve knocked his confidence badly. More so as he is a confidence player, Bowyer has said as much only recently.

    I don’t think having him starting the season up front alongside Taylor was as due to injuries as you say. He was always going to be played as a striker, Bowyer said that’s where he sees him, up front, he said the same at Bromley Addicks last November. Bowyer was never going to start Taylor and Ajose up front together at the beginning and Vetokele was injured. So maybe it would’ve been Taylor and Vetokele but Grant was always next in line. He has just taken his chance and now making himself a player that won’t be replaced with his form.

    Finally, I believe if you count his Crawley loan spell from the end of last season, Karlan Grant now has scored 14 goals in 24 games. Carry on this form and we could have two strikers at the end of the season hitting, or nearly hitting, 20 goals.
    Actually, I think you agree entirely with what I’m trying to say. What I mean is I don’t think he learnt anything at Crawley he wouldn’t have learnt at Charlton if he’d been given a proper run of games up front. Obviously all of us are learning all of the time. If anything, the best partabout the loan, apart from being picked in his best position, was he was given space from the pressure put on him by the more impatient elements in our fan base.
  • Going by the FA Website... the 5 yellow cards will be wiped out after 19-League games so that'll be the Bristol Rovers game on the 24th November

    10-yellow cards have to be achieved by the 37th League game of the season

    I guess one good way to do it would be to try and ensure that anyone with four yellow cards gets themselves booked during the Doncaster game as they'll then miss the FA Cup 1st Round
  • Spanish said:

    Anybody know how the Civil Service Strollers did today?

    Not that I give a Shit just making Conversation.
    Speaking to yourself is the first sign of madness, apparently ?
    Yes I know but the thing is I am getting the right Answers.
  • Sage said:

    Scoham said:

    Thought KAG was poor overall - should have laid it to Taylor for a tap in and was sleeping when we hit the post and could've tapped in. If he can sort that out and keep scoring!! Needs someone to better coach him.

    KAG is now scoring and creating goals. Before this season he struggled to make an impact on the first team.

    He’s gone from being back up and loaned out to an important first team player. I’d say much of that is down to good coaching and management.
    Yeah, down to Harry Kewell according to Bow :smile:

    I do think the part that Crawley loan played, while certainly not irrelevant, is a bit over played. Karlan was already finding some form and goals before he went on loan. He didn’t suddenly discover himself again at Crawley, he was just finally given a run of games as a striker (his actual position not no. 10 or on the wing) and show what he can do when confident, but he took confidence there with him rather then build on rather than needing to start from scratch. I don’t think he learnt anything he hadn’t already shown flashes of at the Valley, numerous managers just kept using him wrong. I think he’d have scored goals for us too last season if he’d been picked up front in a 2.

    Partly through a forced hand from injuries, Bowyer has just picked Karlan in his natural position, and in Taylor has signed the perfect kind of partner for him. Karlan is also now in his early 20s, the kid of age where strikers traditionally make the transition from youth team to full time first team member.

    I think he’s been one of our 3 or 4 best players this season. Why anyone would be even considering dropping him right now is completely beyond me, especially to shoe horn a player in who doesn’t even play the same position as Karlan.

    Reeves and Ward are the ones in competition with Fosu. And it might be a horses for courses type of decision for Bowyer based on the opposition because Fosu is such a threat carrying the ball and a great outlet when we are defending a lot, but Ward and Reeves have more vision and range of passing to create chances against deep lying defences. To break up the best performing strike pairing we’ve had for years would be utter madness though.
    I agree with most parts of this, but I do think there are a few things that isn’t right.

    He most certainly would’ve learnt a good amount on loan at Crawley. You can’t not learn when you have a manager who played the game at the highest level, alongside some fantastic strikers too. You also learn a great deal when you’re getting a run of games. What works and what doesn’t.

    Karlan when briefly in the team last season did well and scored as you mentioned, but he was quickly dropped or not given a run in the team. This would’ve knocked his confidence badly. More so as he is a confidence player, Bowyer has said as much only recently.

    I don’t think having him starting the season up front alongside Taylor was as due to injuries as you say. He was always going to be played as a striker, Bowyer said that’s where he sees him, up front, he said the same at Bromley Addicks last November. Bowyer was never going to start Taylor and Ajose up front together at the beginning and Vetokele was injured. So maybe it would’ve been Taylor and Vetokele but Grant was always next in line. He has just taken his chance and now making himself a player that won’t be replaced with his form.

    Finally, I believe if you count his Crawley loan spell from the end of last season, Karlan Grant now has scored 14 goals in 24 games. Carry on this form and we could have two strikers at the end of the season hitting, or nearly hitting, 20 goals.
    Thought it was the last mad thing that Robinson did i.e. letting Grant go on loan after his sudden rise in form

    He then capped it off by trying to claim that Karlan wasnt a Striker at a fan meeting to explain why he'd been let go on loan when we were so light up top!!
  • Going by the FA Website... the 5 yellow cards will be wiped out after 19-League games so that'll be the Bristol Rovers game on the 24th November

    10-yellow cards have to be achieved by the 37th League game of the season

    I guess one good way to do it would be to try and ensure that anyone with four yellow cards gets themselves booked during the Doncaster game as they'll then miss the FA Cup 1st Round

    Though it might ruin our chances of League & FA Cup double this season.

  • 2 massive pluses Reeves was fantastic best game yet.New boys are fitting in well.Just wish Lyle Tayler would stop gobbling off to officials that's 3yellow cards .But we are getting there.COYR

    Have to admit Taylor's theatrics are wearing a little thin. Every time he goes down he sits there for five minutes waving his arms in the air. If I was Bow or JJ I'd take to one side and show him a selection of his so-called fouls and ask him, in all honesty - which, if he were the ref, would he have given. Sooner or later he is going to push a referees wrong buttons and end up having an early shower.
    Annoying really, because the more he does it the more refs are going to ignore him. This is not to say that he does not have legitimate complaints but to be fair most of these have gone his way.
  • edited September 2018

    Scoham said:

    Thought KAG was poor overall - should have laid it to Taylor for a tap in and was sleeping when we hit the post and could've tapped in. If he can sort that out and keep scoring!! Needs someone to better coach him.

    KAG is now scoring and creating goals. Before this season he struggled to make an impact on the first team.

    He’s gone from being back up and loaned out to an important first team player. I’d say much of that is down to good coaching and management.
    Yeah, down to Harry Kewell according to Bow :smile:

    I do think the part that Crawley loan played, while certainly not irrelevant, is a bit over played. Karlan was already finding some form and goals before he went on loan. He didn’t suddenly discover himself again at Crawley, he was just finally given a run of games as a striker (his actual position not no. 10 or on the wing) and a chance to show what he can do when confident, but he took confidence there with him to build on rather than needing to start from scratch. I don’t think he learnt anything he hadn’t already shown flashes of at the Valley, numerous managers just kept using him wrong. I think he’d have scored goals for us too last season if he’d been picked up front in a 2.

    Partly through a forced hand from injuries, Bowyer has just picked Karlan in his natural position, and in Taylor has signed the perfect kind of partner for him. Karlan is also now in his early 20s, the kid of age where strikers traditionally make the transition from youth team to full time first team member.

    I think he’s been one of our 3 or 4 best players this season. Why anyone would be even considering dropping him right now is completely beyond me, especially to shoe horn a player in who doesn’t even play the same position as Karlan.

    Reeves and Ward are the ones in competition with Fosu. And it might be a horses for courses type of decision for Bowyer based on the opposition because Fosu is such a threat carrying the ball and a great outlet when we are defending a lot, but Ward and Reeves have more vision and range of passing to create chances against deep lying defences. To break up the best performing strike pairing we’ve had for years would be utter madness though.
    I recall Paul Williams going on loan and coming back a much better player. Scott Parker definitely benefited from a loan to Norwich. I think players can really find their game and Grant is no exception. He made a mark at Crawley and that is what any player on loan should be looking to do.
  • Absolutely loving watching this bunch this season, over the moon Jeff

    I'm glad to see the positivity flowing these days AFKA.
    Trouble with AFKA he'll wobble if we don't win for 2 games
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