Evidence 1. Corbyn hosts terrorist in the house of commons and is rebuked by his own party for doing so.
"Donald Dewar, the Labour Chief Whip, read the riot act individually to three Labour MPs - Ken Livingstone, Jeremy Corbyn, and Alan Simpson - in his room off the members' lobby.
The Chief Whip said it was a matter of some sensitivity. It had been drawn to his attention the MPs had put the House at some considerable and unacceptable risk.
A Labour source said: "He had been informed by the security services that people with Mitchell McLaughlin were directly involved with the IRA or connected with the IRA. He said this House had been the target in the past and could well be in the present and the future."
Just a thought regarding talking to terrorists. I grew up through the 1970's and 80's. It was carnage on the streets of Northern Ireland. The worst thing was there seemed no end to it. The IRA made it clear they wanted a United Ireland, while successive Bristish governments made it equally they would not negotiate with terrorists. And let's not forget the loyalist terror groups who were also active bringing their own kind of horror to the streets. The reason that situation is no longer with us is that a Prime Minister who should really get a statue in Westminster for his actions showed some real bravery and bought everyone around the table to talk - not just the politicians as that would solve nothing, but everyone. As a Labour voter, it's a bit sad, but John Major did something extraordinary there. Ther result was the Good Friday Agreement. The result is that the streets of Belfast are now normal. I would imagine that a lot of the old hatred may still be about, but the people of Northern Ireland can now go shopping or visit the pub without being shot or blown up. I often get the feeing the Brexit brigade would quite happily go back to the previous state of affairs if that was the price of a Hard Brexit, but I doubt any of them would show the sort of courage John Major showed in bringing the violence to and end. Be interested to hear @NornIrishAddick 's view on that.
Ok U wish it were true that the streets of Belfast were now 'normal', but Google 'peace walls' to see how delicate and tenuous things still are. It may be unknowing, but 17.4 million brexit voters puts it all at risk because of their vote, so now they have to own the solution rather than wash their hands of it.I I don't think I have encountered an admitted brexit voter get who could give two chites about Ireland, they are irritated by Ireland more often than not.
I care and I don't think I realised it was an almost impossible issue to resolve at the time of voting. I can't even recall that I thought there was an issue to be resolved if I'm honest.
Evidence 1. Corbyn hosts terrorist in the house of commons and is rebuked by his own party for doing so.
"Donald Dewar, the Labour Chief Whip, read the riot act individually to three Labour MPs - Ken Livingstone, Jeremy Corbyn, and Alan Simpson - in his room off the members' lobby.
The Chief Whip said it was a matter of some sensitivity. It had been drawn to his attention the MPs had put the House at some considerable and unacceptable risk.
A Labour source said: "He had been informed by the security services that people with Mitchell McLaughlin were directly involved with the IRA or connected with the IRA. He said this House had been the target in the past and could well be in the present and the future."
Just a thought regarding talking to terrorists. I grew up through the 1970's and 80's. It was carnage on the streets of Northern Ireland. The worst thing was there seemed no end to it. The IRA made it clear they wanted a United Ireland, while successive Bristish governments made it equally they would not negotiate with terrorists. And let's not forget the loyalist terror groups who were also active bringing their own kind of horror to the streets. The reason that situation is no longer with us is that a Prime Minister who should really get a statue in Westminster for his actions showed some real bravery and bought everyone around the table to talk - not just the politicians as that would solve nothing, but everyone. As a Labour voter, it's a bit sad, but John Major did something extraordinary there. Ther result was the Good Friday Agreement. The result is that the streets of Belfast are now normal. I would imagine that a lot of the old hatred may still be about, but the people of Northern Ireland can now go shopping or visit the pub without being shot or blown up. I often get the feeing the Brexit brigade would quite happily go back to the previous state of affairs if that was the price of a Hard Brexit, but I doubt any of them would show the sort of courage John Major showed in bringing the violence to and end. Be interested to hear @NornIrishAddick 's view on that.
Ok U wish it were true that the streets of Belfast were now 'normal', but Google 'peace walls' to see how delicate and tenuous things still are. It may be unknowing, but 17.4 million brexit voters puts it all at risk because of their vote, so now they have to own the solution rather than wash their hands of it.I I don't think I have encountered an admitted brexit voter get who could give two chites about Ireland, they are irritated by Ireland more often than not.
I'll grant you delicate and tenuous. Though after years of conflict (centuries if you want to see it that way, and a lot of people do so you can't disregard it) it's enough that the peace process is going along. We've had this talk about guns in America - any real change will start slowly, but until you make the first step there is no progress at all. But all of that is a bit of a digression. I have no idea if Corbyn was relevant to the Good Friday Agreement, and it wasn't really the point I was making. The point was that while you can villify someone for talking to terrorists (in this case Sinn Fein), John Major did it and achieved something no other prime minister did going back as far as the eye can see. And as a staunch Labour voter, I'd take it fairly amiss if anyone implied he made a mistake. There may be tensions on the streets of Belfast, but there were bombs and chaos before the agreement. That has to be a step in the right direction, and if he hadn't talked to everyone, the agreement wouldn't have been worth the paper it was written on - it needed consensus from all sides.
Interesting thread. Nice diversion from the daily shitshow that the Tories have been responsible for since 2010. The front of the house is sinking into the ground, but lets sort out that dripping tap in the downstairs loo first...
He's the leader of the opposition, HE is the alternative to the front of the house falling down at the moment
Great Logic, you don't like May so you must like Corbyn...
Let the pile on, the excuses, the deflections and whataboutery begin.
Me, I'm off now
Shabbat Shalom
I have only read the first article so far. This is a quote from it:
Corbyn is a progressive politician and a staunch defender of human rights. So his decision to appear on, and take money from, Press TV on multiple occasions is peculiar, even if he is not responsible for the network's output or its role in the Bahari episode. His appearances occurred when he was a rebellious backbencher with a much lower public profile.
So it looks like Corbyn stopped appearing on this channel when another body independent of him revoked it's licence, which on the face of it seems like a prompt and correct thing for him to have done. It also says that Corbyn wasn't responsible for the output of the network. I would imagine there are loads of people who appear on TV Channels worldwide that would gag in the face of some of their output, maybe Corbyn qualifies as a special case because he should have been more aware of the general tenor of the TV station, but his actions here don't make him a friend of terrorism. To know more one would have to see an example of one of Corbyn's actual broadcasts.
Interesting thread. Nice diversion from the daily shitshow that the Tories have been responsible for since 2010. The front of the house is sinking into the ground, but lets sort out that dripping tap in the downstairs loo first...
He's the leader of the opposition, HE is the alternative to the front of the house falling down at the moment
Great Logic, you don't like May so you must like Corbyn...
Eh? Sorry, you've got that completely wrong mate.
You likened people having a dig at Corbyn to worrying about a leak in a sink when the front of a house is falling down, which I presume would be May and the Tories? And I said that I thought he's fair game due to the fact he is leader of the opposition.
What has that got to do with me then pointing out that not liking Corbyn doesn't mean you must like May instead?
The irony of a Celtic supporter complaining about IRA symphony isn't lost on me. If an Election was called this month there will be a stage where the unelectable label will be dropped. Shame that most of the Labour voters are too busy working to reply to these comments but as lunch time is upon us this thread will quickly be sunk!
I'm a Charlton supporter, not a Celtic supporter. They are my Scottish club and have been since I was about 7, long before I knew what the IRA was. For the record I condemn the support for the IRA and the disrespect paid to the poppy by some Celtic fans.
Rather than putting up baseless slurs or waiting for the rest of the labour supporters to pile on why don't you put up some defence for Corbyn's long and well documented support for the IRA yourself @Friend Or Defoe
So when you grew up and understood the religious bigotry involved in your support, you carried on anyway. Never mind Ben, Corbyn is rumoured to be a closet Catholic as well.
Oh dear, so being having Celtic as a Scottish team makes you a bigot?
That will be all Celtic people too, all bigots according to you. Oh dear, oh dear.
Is that just Celtic fans, some of whom support Palistine but I guess you haven't really thought that through, if at all, or Rangers fans as well?
So so desperate to attack me that you show yourself up as someone with no grasp of reality.
There are thousands of Celtic supporters who are not religious bigots but few with your supposed sensibility to racist/religious predudices.
Or hatred of Corbyn.
I'm unable to see who flagged my post. I'd love to know who and why.
Let the pile on, the excuses, the deflections and whataboutery begin.
Me, I'm off now
Shabbat Shalom
Re the Business Insider link:
- Corbyn received money to appear on a TV show/broadcast. It takes some interesting mental gymnastics to therefore link him to terrorism.
- As an equivalence - I have used Uber. Does this, therefore, make me complicit in sexual abuse by Uber drivers?
- The Independent link says that his final payment, for an appearance in 2011, was received six months after the fact. This is something that can happen with invoicing etc. Corbyn appears to have had no further involvement after Press TV was 1) banned in the UK; 2) exposed as potentially [let's be honest, almost definitely] broadcasting a confession from Maziar Bahari under duress; and 3) in 2012 itself, as the shoddy SHODDY journalism implies.
---------------------------
This Independent article isn't exactly covering itself in glory, either. To quote:
In 2014, not long before becoming the most unlikely Labour leader in history, Jeremy Corbyn spoke at an event at London Islamic centre to mark the twenty fifth anniversary of the Iranian Revolution.
At this event, he praised Iran’s, “Tolerance and acceptance of other faiths, traditions and ethnic groupings in Iran.”
He also told the audience: “I am against the foreign policy that says certain European nations and the United States have the power to invade and rule the rest of the world.”
- It's linking two separate statements, really amateurishly, to make it seem as if Corbyn was sympathetic to the Iranian state.
- What event was this? Can't find a record of it. Also, it'd be the 35th anniversary. Do your maths right lol
-----------------------------
- The Mirror? More stuff on Press TV.
-----------------------------
HI - I'd be more thorough in going through this but I don't have the time. If you're going to provide "evidence" then make sure it doesn't have an overarching anti-Corbyn agenda.
You asked me and others what your agenda might be - it's anti-Corbyn and you aim to smear him by joining disparate dots to form "evidence", while engaging in relatively little critical thought, because it's what you want to hear.
I mean, hell, it's like the whole jazz thing! "All jazz is bad." And you won't try to engage, or understand, or empathise. And this sort of attitude when it comes to opinion is downright dangerous.
Like I said before - you have just and valid concerns regarding anti-Semitism in the Labour party and Corbyn's unacceptable avoidance of the matter. But, you can't see the nuance. I have repeatedly pointed it out, and you have repeatedly rebutted it by flat out saying "it's not nuanced".
If that's how you see it then there is no point in continued engagement with you on this, and I would politely request other users leave this debate as well.
Let the pile on, the excuses, the deflections and whataboutery begin.
Me, I'm off now
Shabbat Shalom
The second article looks at selected quotes from stuff said by Corbyn at an event related to Iran. Now the article goes on about the faults of Iran the suggestion being that if a country has faults then communication should not happen. One particularly interesting bit is the nuclear stuff. The suggestion is that as Corbyn has always been a 'ban the bomber' how can he have interacted in any way with a state with nuclear weapons. This would be a tricky demand to be made on Corbyn as he is an MP in a country with nuclear weapons, and even more tricky if any kind of interaction were needed with some other countries like America, France or China. So select some (possibly unwise I don't know) quotes out of context, present them as a considered position, and then list the faults of a country the quotes relate to. I am against nuclear weapons, but if I say America produces great music, does that count as hypocrisy because America is a nuclear power? This article reads like a poor examination of a political person being a political person in a way that is universal in political people.
Let the pile on, the excuses, the deflections and whataboutery begin.
Me, I'm off now
Shabbat Shalom
Dear oh dear! No proof that he is a friend of terrorists on an Anti Semite, just shit journalism from the press. As ever.
heaven forbid some one provides evidence! It's obviously all just "fake news". Corbyn cultists sounding like trump supporters more and more every day.
All you had provided in your lengthy post is examples of corbyn either being deeply unhelpful to the foreign office or just being a contrarian. He was a backbench opposition MP when much of his actions re the IRA were ongoing, it's a bit like an u21 sub beating the crystal palace manager at a game of pool and claiming he's helping.
Please remember this was years after the conflict ^
Lets also look at his opposition to military intervention in sierra leone, which saved democracy in the african nation and his other dismal and sickening opposition to humanitarian intervention:
As for anti semitism and, in his own words, a friend to terrorist who seek to kill every last jew they can find, here's him literally calling them a friend, you can see for yourself:
I suppose if you're mates with some one who literally wants to kill every last jew on the planet it totally clears you of any wrong doing? Here's also a good article by David Baddiel, who suffers anti semitic abuse on twitter almost daily from corbyn supporters:
I refuse to believe some one who has campaigned so passionately against racism can be so blind to the anti semitism in that mural.
But what you're also implying is that those that do not support corbyn are some what less of a human than those that do, which is an incredibly dangerous and worrying path to go down. Corbyn isn't the answer, neither are the tories. In short, we're fucked. But corbyn is just as bad as the tories.
Let the pile on, the excuses, the deflections and whataboutery begin.
Me, I'm off now
Shabbat Shalom
Dear oh dear! No proof that he is a friend of terrorists on an Anti Semite, just shit journalism from the press. As ever.
heaven forbid some one provides evidence! It's obviously all just "fake news". Corbyn cultists sounding like trump supporters more and more every day.
All you had provided in your lengthy post is examples of corbyn either being deeply unhelpful to the foreign office or just being a contrarian. He was a backbench opposition MP when much of his actions re the IRA were ongoing, it's a bit like an u21 sub beating the crystal palace manager at a game of pool and claiming he's helping.
Please remember this was years after the conflict ^
Lets also look at his opposition to military intervention in sierra leone, which saved democracy in the african nation and his other dismal and sickening opposition to humanitarian intervention:
As for anti semitism and, in his own words, a friend to terrorist who seek to kill every last jew they can find, here's him literally calling them a friend, you can see for yourself:
I suppose if you're mates with some one who literally wants to kill every last jew on the planet it totally clears you of any wrong doing? Here's also a good article by David Baddiel, who suffers anti semitic abuse on twitter almost daily from corbyn supporters:
I refuse to believe some one who has campaigned so passionately against racism can be so blind to the anti semitism in that mural.
But what you're also implying is that those that do not support corbyn are some what less of a human than those that do, which is an incredibly dangerous and worrying path to go down. Corbyn isn't the answer, neither are the tories. In short, we're fucked. But corbyn is just as bad as the tories.
Sheesh.
I don't like Corbyn, but go back and see what I had to say about EDMs perhaps and how Corbyn has signed ones that explicitly condemn anti-Semitism?!
Well, flags are coming out because personal insults are being thrown round. Not sure i'd gloat about that either. Once again a thread critical of labour getting derailed by trolls like @Greenie
Let the pile on, the excuses, the deflections and whataboutery begin.
Me, I'm off now
Shabbat Shalom
The last bit adds nothing really. It is about Corbyn appearing on Press TV as I have discussed above. I am not excusing anything, nor deflecting on to other territory, maybe a bit of whataboutery (America as a Nuclear Power) which I see as legitimate in response to an opinion based accusation of hypocrisy.
Let the pile on, the excuses, the deflections and whataboutery begin.
Me, I'm off now
Shabbat Shalom
Dear oh dear! No proof that he is a friend of terrorists on an Anti Semite, just shit journalism from the press. As ever.
heaven forbid some one provides evidence! It's obviously all just "fake news". Corbyn cultists sounding like trump supporters more and more every day.
All you had provided in your lengthy post is examples of corbyn either being deeply unhelpful to the foreign office or just being a contrarian. He was a backbench opposition MP when much of his actions re the IRA were ongoing, it's a bit like an u21 sub beating the crystal palace manager at a game of pool and claiming he's helping.
Please remember this was years after the conflict ^
Lets also look at his opposition to military intervention in sierra leone, which saved democracy in the african nation and his other dismal and sickening opposition to humanitarian intervention:
As for anti semitism and, in his own words, a friend to terrorist who seek to kill every last jew they can find, here's him literally calling them a friend, you can see for yourself:
I suppose if you're mates with some one who literally wants to kill every last jew on the planet it totally clears you of any wrong doing? Here's also a good article by David Baddiel, who suffers anti semitic abuse on twitter almost daily from corbyn supporters:
I refuse to believe some one who has campaigned so passionately against racism can be so blind to the anti semitism in that mural.
But what you're also implying is that those that do not support corbyn are some what less of a human than those that do, which is an incredibly dangerous and worrying path to go down. Corbyn isn't the answer, neither are the tories. In short, we're fucked. But corbyn is just as bad as the tories.
Sheesh.
I don't like Corbyn, but go back and see what I had to say about EDMs perhaps and how Corbyn has signed ones that explicitly condemn anti-Semitism?!
Or do you refuse to see that as evidence?
The Chelsea fan arrested on suspicion of racially abusing Raheem Sterling has publicly condemned racial abuse. Does that now mean he's not racist?
Comments
I can't even recall that I thought there was an issue to be resolved if I'm honest.
But all of that is a bit of a digression. I have no idea if Corbyn was relevant to the Good Friday Agreement, and it wasn't really the point I was making. The point was that while you can villify someone for talking to terrorists (in this case Sinn Fein), John Major did it and achieved something no other prime minister did going back as far as the eye can see. And as a staunch Labour voter, I'd take it fairly amiss if anyone implied he made a mistake. There may be tensions on the streets of Belfast, but there were bombs and chaos before the agreement. That has to be a step in the right direction, and if he hadn't talked to everyone, the agreement wouldn't have been worth the paper it was written on - it needed consensus from all sides.
Here's what you said -
Still here despite the pile on from the Corbyn Cult
Still going to be pointing out, with evidence, Corbyn's links to dictatorships and terrorists.
Just be patient @Friend Or Defoe @harveys_gardener and the rest of you.
Corbyn and the Iranians
https://www.businessinsider.com/jeremy-corbyn-paid-iran-press-tv-tortured-journalist-2016-6?r=UK&IR=T
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-iran-protests-why-overlook-human-rights-issues-regime-press-tv-a8138696.html
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-press-tv-2012-11927924
Let the pile on, the excuses, the deflections and whataboutery begin.
Me, I'm off now
Shabbat Shalom
You're welcome.
This is a quote from it:
Corbyn is a progressive politician and a staunch defender of human rights. So his decision to appear on, and take money from, Press TV on multiple occasions is peculiar, even if he is not responsible for the network's output or its role in the Bahari episode. His appearances occurred when he was a rebellious backbencher with a much lower public profile.
So it looks like Corbyn stopped appearing on this channel when another body independent of him revoked it's licence, which on the face of it seems like a prompt and correct thing for him to have done. It also says that Corbyn wasn't responsible for the output of the network. I would imagine there are loads of people who appear on TV Channels worldwide that would gag in the face of some of their output, maybe Corbyn qualifies as a special case because he should have been more aware of the general tenor of the TV station, but his actions here don't make him a friend of terrorism. To know more one would have to see an example of one of Corbyn's actual broadcasts.
You likened people having a dig at Corbyn to worrying about a leak in a sink when the front of a house is falling down, which I presume would be May and the Tories? And I said that I thought he's fair game due to the fact he is leader of the opposition.
What has that got to do with me then pointing out that not liking Corbyn doesn't mean you must like May instead?
- Corbyn received money to appear on a TV show/broadcast. It takes some interesting mental gymnastics to therefore link him to terrorism.
- As an equivalence - I have used Uber. Does this, therefore, make me complicit in sexual abuse by Uber drivers?
- The Independent link says that his final payment, for an appearance in 2011, was received six months after the fact. This is something that can happen with invoicing etc. Corbyn appears to have had no further involvement after Press TV was 1) banned in the UK; 2) exposed as potentially [let's be honest, almost definitely] broadcasting a confession from Maziar Bahari under duress; and 3) in 2012 itself, as the shoddy SHODDY journalism implies.
---------------------------
This Independent article isn't exactly covering itself in glory, either. To quote:
In 2014, not long before becoming the most unlikely Labour leader in history, Jeremy Corbyn spoke at an event at London Islamic centre to mark the twenty fifth anniversary of the Iranian Revolution.
At this event, he praised Iran’s, “Tolerance and acceptance of other faiths, traditions and ethnic groupings in Iran.”
He also told the audience: “I am against the foreign policy that says certain European nations and the United States have the power to invade and rule the rest of the world.”
- It's linking two separate statements, really amateurishly, to make it seem as if Corbyn was sympathetic to the Iranian state.
- What event was this? Can't find a record of it. Also, it'd be the 35th anniversary. Do your maths right lol
-----------------------------
- The Mirror? More stuff on Press TV.
-----------------------------
HI - I'd be more thorough in going through this but I don't have the time. If you're going to provide "evidence" then make sure it doesn't have an overarching anti-Corbyn agenda.
You asked me and others what your agenda might be - it's anti-Corbyn and you aim to smear him by joining disparate dots to form "evidence", while engaging in relatively little critical thought, because it's what you want to hear.
I mean, hell, it's like the whole jazz thing! "All jazz is bad." And you won't try to engage, or understand, or empathise. And this sort of attitude when it comes to opinion is downright dangerous.
Like I said before - you have just and valid concerns regarding anti-Semitism in the Labour party and Corbyn's unacceptable avoidance of the matter. But, you can't see the nuance. I have repeatedly pointed it out, and you have repeatedly rebutted it by flat out saying "it's not nuanced".
If that's how you see it then there is no point in continued engagement with you on this, and I would politely request other users leave this debate as well.
One particularly interesting bit is the nuclear stuff. The suggestion is that as Corbyn has always been a 'ban the bomber' how can he have interacted in any way with a state with nuclear weapons.
This would be a tricky demand to be made on Corbyn as he is an MP in a country with nuclear weapons, and even more tricky if any kind of interaction were needed with some other countries like America, France or China.
So select some (possibly unwise I don't know) quotes out of context, present them as a considered position, and then list the faults of a country the quotes relate to.
I am against nuclear weapons, but if I say America produces great music, does that count as hypocrisy because America is a nuclear power?
This article reads like a poor examination of a political person being a political person in a way that is universal in political people.
All you had provided in your lengthy post is examples of corbyn either being deeply unhelpful to the foreign office or just being a contrarian. He was a backbench opposition MP when much of his actions re the IRA were ongoing, it's a bit like an u21 sub beating the crystal palace manager at a game of pool and claiming he's helping.
Back to reality:
I suppose Corbyn's a "good bloke" for denying genocide? https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/26919/john-pilger-and-kosovo
Please remember this was years after the conflict ^
Lets also look at his opposition to military intervention in sierra leone, which saved democracy in the african nation and his other dismal and sickening opposition to humanitarian intervention:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-syria-strikes-oppose-theresa-may-military-action-vote-parliament-a8306666.html
As for anti semitism and, in his own words, a friend to terrorist who seek to kill every last jew they can find, here's him literally calling them a friend, you can see for yourself:
I suppose if you're mates with some one who literally wants to kill every last jew on the planet it totally clears you of any wrong doing? Here's also a good article by David Baddiel, who suffers anti semitic abuse on twitter almost daily from corbyn supporters:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/david-baddiel-am-i-stinking-vermin-or-am-i-running-the-world-the-racists-think-its-both-mqsk3mmkv
I refuse to believe some one who has campaigned so passionately against racism can be so blind to the anti semitism in that mural.
But what you're also implying is that those that do not support corbyn are some what less of a human than those that do, which is an incredibly dangerous and worrying path to go down. Corbyn isn't the answer, neither are the tories. In short, we're fucked. But corbyn is just as bad as the tories.
I don't like Corbyn, but go back and see what I had to say about EDMs perhaps and how Corbyn has signed ones that explicitly condemn anti-Semitism?!
Or do you refuse to see that as evidence?
I am not excusing anything, nor deflecting on to other territory, maybe a bit of whataboutery (America as a Nuclear Power) which I see as legitimate in response to an opinion based accusation of hypocrisy.
It's uncanny.