If Corbyn grew some bollocks and came out the closet as the Brexiteer he is (and in doing so staying true to his Labour values), would he be the ideal candidate to come in and take the EU by the scruff of the neck and tell em what's what???
I'll take that seriously @i_b_b_o_r_g though it looks a bit odd. I think after all this time where Corbyn has sat sweetly on the fence regarding Brexit, it's a bit late to state his mind now. But as has been demonstrated over and over again there, is no taking the EU by the scruff of the neck. It's a negotiation. In any negotiation you'll have to give ground to reach an agreement. Or you can just take the Boris/Farage/Gove/DUP route, tell 'em what you demand, be turned down, and then (and this is where the aforementioned do a runner) man up and take responsibility for the chaos you have caused
Where is he when we are facing our biggest political crisis for many years? Even Tony Blair is seeking to offer more leadership to my party and country at the moment. We are now well past the time for sitting back and letting the Tories fight like cats in a sack while the Country goes to hell in a handcart (look at what is happening now to investment) can be seen as leadership other than by slavish lemmings.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
Let the pile on, the excuses, the deflections and whataboutery begin.
Me, I'm off now
Shabbat Shalom
Worth bumping these links to Corbyn's links to a dictatorship.
You are the forum equivalent of someone putting their fingers in their ears and going la la la la la la la. There's at least half a dozen posts ripping those links apart but you don't bother to respond to them.............you just post them again.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
Labour now has 540,000 members compared to 124,000 Tories and 99,000 Lib Dem.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
Labour under Blair (baggage) and then Brown (crash) had been in government just a tad too long and people like a change after any government being in office for “too long”
The Tories are starting to look like they’ve outstayed their welcome too now. The years of austerity and the Brexit shambles ought to have signed their death warrant but remarkably they are still in the game. The only real conclusion to this in my view is that Labour are still not seen by enough people to be a government in waiting despite the above factors. There might be other factors at play but the overwhelming one in holding Labour back at this point is Jeremy Corbyn.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
Labour under Blair (baggage) and then Brown (crash) had been in government just a tad too long and people like a change after any government being in office for “too long”
The Tories are starting to look like they’ve outstayed their welcome too now. The years of austerity and the Brexit shambles ought to have signed their death warrant but remarkably they are still in the game. The only real conclusion to this in my view is that Labour are still not seen by enough people to be a government in waiting despite the above factors. There might be other factors at play but the overwhelming one in holding Labour back at this point is Jeremy Corbyn.
I think he both holds Labour back and advances them. He is such a divisive figure that he has massively increased the Labour vote and membership whilst at the same time increasing the number of people who would never vote Labour with him at the helm.
I know that Labour should be ahead in opinion polls but people voted for Brexit, people voted for Trump, people voted for the mess in Italy. People often get in the way of 'best laid plans' and no I am not advocating a dictatorship!
Where is he when we are facing our biggest political crisis for many years? Even Tony Blair is seeking to offer more leadership to my party and country at the moment. We are now well past the time for sitting back and letting the Tories fight like cats in a sack while the Country goes to hell in a handcart (look at what is happening now to investment) can be seen as leadership other than by slavish lemmings.
What incentive is there for Corbyn to stand up and be counted now? He wants Brexit way more than May does and the country going to hell in a handcart at the same time is just an added bonus as he’ll be able to blame the Tories for the mess (that he is partly responsible for) at the next general election.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
I don't think the effect of the Global financial crisis can be underestimated. When you have a large portion of the voting population that remembers the previous global financial crisis, OPEC in the 70's also under Labour, it can't help but distort people's perceptions. How many times have we heard the mantra "we don't want to return to the seventies"?
@Bournemouth Addick has been tireless in posting links that show Labour have a much record in managing the economy than the general public believe.
In the recovery after a crash it was easy to play on people's fears. Miliband got trashed because of the previous government, despite the Tories later using a lot of those very same ideas. Corbyn got labelled a magic money tree wizard despite only one party offering a costed economic plan, let alone any suggestion of how to deal with some of the fundamental issues with our economy.
I think the majority agree there are fundamental issues with the economy, they just disagree with how to solve it. Even someone like dippenhall would probably agree we have a major problem with investment, taxation, wealth distribution, wage inflation, productivity and an over reliance on the housing market despite our opposed world views.
I feel history is too quick to summarise Blair with Iraq, forgetting his great stewardship before and Brown as a terrible Prime Minister. Brown was a giant within the Labour party, a superb Chancellor and great statesman. Whist both made huge political misjudgements, we are desperately lacking in someone of their calibre, not that I wish them back.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
I don't think the effect of the Global financial crisis can be underestimated. When you have a large portion of the voting population that remembers the previous global financial crisis, OPEC in the 70's also under Labour, it can't help but distort people's perceptions. How many times have we heard the mantra "we don't want to return to the seventies"?
@Bournemouth Addick has been tireless in posting links that show Labour have a much record in managing the economy than the general public believe.
In the recovery after a crash it was easy to play on people's fears. Miliband got trashed because of the previous government, despite the Tories later using a lot of those very same ideas. Corbyn got labelled a magic money tree wizard despite only one party offering a costed economic plan, let alone any suggestion of how to deal with some of the fundamental issues with our economy.
I think the majority agree there are fundamental issues with the economy, they just disagree with how to solve it. Even someone like dippenhall would probably agree we have a major problem with investment, taxation, wealth distribution, wage inflation, productivity and an over reliance on the housing market despite our opposed world views.
I feel history is too quick to summarise Blair with Iraq, forgetting his great stewardship before and Brown as a terrible Prime Minister. Brown was a giant within the Labour party, a superb Chancellor and great statesman. Whist both made huge political misjudgements, we are desperately lacking in someone of their calibre, not that I wish them back.
Where is he when we are facing our biggest political crisis for many years? Even Tony Blair is seeking to offer more leadership to my party and country at the moment. We are now well past the time for sitting back and letting the Tories fight like cats in a sack while the Country goes to hell in a handcart (look at what is happening now to investment) can be seen as leadership other than by slavish lemmings.
What incentive is there for Corbyn to stand up and be counted now? He wants Brexit way more than May does and the country going to hell in a handcart at the same time is just an added bonus as he’ll be able to blame the Tories for the mess (that he is partly responsible for) at the next general election.
There isn't, he had his chance during the grotesque referendum campaign and at risk of repeating myself while I admire his way of doing things in a fairly understated and seemingly dignified way. He didn't put any weight at all behind the campaign to remain in the EU and if you put truth serum in him he would say he disagreed with the EU and supported the decision to leave. Which would have castigated him.
There were a few things Tony Blair did that I didn't just disagree with, I absolutely opposed such as the obvious ones like the invasion of Iraq, and how he played so fast and loose in regards regulating the city of London. And the first one alone is a bad enough stain on anyone and the legacy of that decision will be felt for a very long time.
Corbyn has done things I really don't agree with and the stuff with the IRA at the most stupid of times he can't just shake off and being totally objective I don't think his supporters can either. I don't believe Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite however there is some pretty grubby stuff has gone on under and before his watch that he has to be accountable for. I know he ordered an independent enquiry and that there is a difference between being anti-Israel and anti-Semitic which, and I appreciate people might not like this, is similar to the differential of Tommy Robinson not being a racist but being anti-islam.
It drives me up the wall when people have obviously held a view that they don't support Israel full stop or Israeli occupation and the conditions they make Palestinians live in. Be honest, it's a much better idea than saying cryptic things and then being wrongly branded a bigot. Of course that would require people who don't like you to read or listen to what you have to say.
May and Corbyn are not long for the leadership of their respective parties and for my money are both guilty of not being able to assert proper control over them and deal with the idiots
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
I don't think the effect of the Global financial crisis can be underestimated. When you have a large portion of the voting population that remembers the previous global financial crisis, OPEC in the 70's also under Labour, it can't help but distort people's perceptions. How many times have we heard the mantra "we don't want to return to the seventies"?
@Bournemouth Addick has been tireless in posting links that show Labour have a much record in managing the economy than the general public believe.
In the recovery after a crash it was easy to play on people's fears. Miliband got trashed because of the previous government, despite the Tories later using a lot of those very same ideas. Corbyn got labelled a magic money tree wizard despite only one party offering a costed economic plan, let alone any suggestion of how to deal with some of the fundamental issues with our economy.
I think the majority agree there are fundamental issues with the economy, they just disagree with how to solve it. Even someone like dippenhall would probably agree we have a major problem with investment, taxation, wealth distribution, wage inflation, productivity and an over reliance on the housing market despite our opposed world views.
I feel history is too quick to summarise Blair with Iraq, forgetting his great stewardship before and Brown as a terrible Prime Minister. Brown was a giant within the Labour party, a superb Chancellor and great statesman. Whist both made huge political misjudgements, we are desperately lacking in someone of their calibre, not that I wish them back.
I wouldn't disagree with most of that. My dislike of Blair starts in a different place to Iraq.
Comments
But as has been demonstrated over and over again there, is no taking the EU by the scruff of the neck. It's a negotiation. In any negotiation you'll have to give ground to reach an agreement. Or you can just take the Boris/Farage/Gove/DUP route, tell 'em what you demand, be turned down, and then (and this is where the aforementioned do a runner) man up and take responsibility for the chaos you have caused
The Tories are starting to look like they’ve outstayed their welcome too now. The years of austerity and the Brexit shambles ought to have signed their death warrant but remarkably they are still in the game. The only real conclusion to this in my view is that Labour are still not seen by enough people to be a government in waiting despite the above factors. There might be other factors at play but the overwhelming one in holding Labour back at this point is Jeremy Corbyn.
I know that Labour should be ahead in opinion polls but people voted for Brexit, people voted for Trump, people voted for the mess in Italy. People often get in the way of 'best laid plans' and no I am not advocating a dictatorship!
@Bournemouth Addick has been tireless in posting links that show Labour have a much record in managing the economy than the general public believe.
In the recovery after a crash it was easy to play on people's fears. Miliband got trashed because of the previous government, despite the Tories later using a lot of those very same ideas. Corbyn got labelled a magic money tree wizard despite only one party offering a costed economic plan, let alone any suggestion of how to deal with some of the fundamental issues with our economy.
I think the majority agree there are fundamental issues with the economy, they just disagree with how to solve it. Even someone like dippenhall would probably agree we have a major problem with investment, taxation, wealth distribution, wage inflation, productivity and an over reliance on the housing market despite our opposed world views.
I feel history is too quick to summarise Blair with Iraq, forgetting his great stewardship before and Brown as a terrible Prime Minister. Brown was a giant within the Labour party, a superb Chancellor and great statesman. Whist both made huge political misjudgements, we are desperately lacking in someone of their calibre, not that I wish them back.
There were a few things Tony Blair did that I didn't just disagree with, I absolutely opposed such as the obvious ones like the invasion of Iraq, and how he played so fast and loose in regards regulating the city of London. And the first one alone is a bad enough stain on anyone and the legacy of that decision will be felt for a very long time.
Corbyn has done things I really don't agree with and the stuff with the IRA at the most stupid of times he can't just shake off and being totally objective I don't think his supporters can either. I don't believe Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite however there is some pretty grubby stuff has gone on under and before his watch that he has to be accountable for. I know he ordered an independent enquiry and that there is a difference between being anti-Israel and anti-Semitic which, and I appreciate people might not like this, is similar to the differential of Tommy Robinson not being a racist but being anti-islam.
It drives me up the wall when people have obviously held a view that they don't support Israel full stop or Israeli occupation and the conditions they make Palestinians live in. Be honest, it's a much better idea than saying cryptic things and then being wrongly branded a bigot. Of course that would require people who don't like you to read or listen to what you have to say.
May and Corbyn are not long for the leadership of their respective parties and for my money are both guilty of not being able to assert proper control over them and deal with the idiots