Problem with Labour is the paucity of talent in the Shadow Cabinet. Most of them are there for one reason and one reason only.
Can't argue with that too much. Although Keir Starmer is pretty good.
The only person that seems to come out of brexit with any credibility. Starmer for labour leader imo.
By his own account Keir Starmer was the architect of Labour's '6 tests' and was directly involved in producing Labour's current strategy of voting dowm May's deal, with the preferred outcome of bringing about a General Election but if that's not possible then campaigning for a second referendum - that was agreed at Labour Conference in September:
So I'm unclear how he then has 'credibility' but others pursuing the same policy don't?
Starmer said:
"I set out six tests for the final Brexit deal.
Not just technical tests, but tests that spell out what kind of country we want to live in. Where the well-being of all our communities matters.
Those tests were not plucked from thin air. They were based on the promises the Tories made about the Brexit deal they would deliver. They are tests Theresa May said she was “determined to meet”. Well she may have lowered her expectations, but I haven’t lowered mine.....
If Theresa May brings back a deal that fails our tests – and that looks increasingly likely – Labour will vote against it.....
And when it comes to the vote in Parliament we do not accept that the choice is between whatever deal Theresa May cobbles together or no deal.
So, if Parliament votes down the Prime Minister’s deal or she can’t reach a deal that’s not the end of the debate. Labour must influence what happens next. And we must keep all options on the table.
Our preference is clear:
We want a general election that can sweep away this failed Tory Government. And usher in a radical Labour Government that would put jobs and living standards first.
But if a General Election is not possible then other options must be kept open. That includes campaigning for a public vote.
It is right for Parliament to have the first say but if we need to break the impasse, Labour campaigning for a public vote must be an option.
That’s why I’m happy to throw our full weight behind the motion being debated this morning."
Links below to Starmer's speech to Labour Conference and the policy motion that was passed:
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
Brown was a superb Chancellor and great statesman.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
Brown was a superb Chancellor and great statesman.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
Brown was a superb Chancellor and great statesman.
Sorry, I profoundly disagree.
Fair enough that is only my opinion and while there might be an element of where we were in the economic cycle when he got the job, I think there is plenty of data to back it up. My point was more a comparison with who is in the house now. I am interested in who you rated as chancellor though?
Where is he when we are facing our biggest political crisis for many years? Even Tony Blair is seeking to offer more leadership to my party and country at the moment. We are now well past the time for sitting back and letting the Tories fight like cats in a sack while the Country goes to hell in a handcart (look at what is happening now to investment) can be seen as leadership other than by slavish lemmings.
What incentive is there for Corbyn to stand up and be counted now? He wants Brexit way more than May does and the country going to hell in a handcart at the same time is just an added bonus as he’ll be able to blame the Tories for the mess (that he is partly responsible for) at the next general election.
Good leaders don't need an incentive to do the right thing and they also know how to take the initiative. Waiting for a bunch of idiots to fail doesn't amount to leadership in my book.
Problem with Labour is the paucity of talent in the Shadow Cabinet. Most of them are there for one reason and one reason only.
Can't argue with that too much. Although Keir Starmer is pretty good.
Agreed, the one exception.
Yvette Cooper has probably offered more effective and constructive criticism than practically all the Shadow Cabinet while she has been chair of the Home Affairs Committee. Labours' polling is nothing to boast about given the complete mess that is the Conservative Party.
Problem with Labour is the paucity of talent in the Shadow Cabinet. Most of them are there for one reason and one reason only.
Can't argue with that too much. Although Keir Starmer is pretty good.
Agreed, the one exception.
Yvette Cooper has probably offered more effective and constructive criticism than practically all the Shadow Cabinet while she has been chair of the Home Affairs Committee. Labours' polling is nothing to boast about given the complete mess that is the Conservative Party.
Remember labour are still polling 3rd in Scotland, their former stronghold.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
Labour now has 540,000 members compared to 124,000 Tories and 99,000 Lib Dem.
But Tories have more voters, they did in 2017 General Election and polls still have them ahead even after the mess they are in. Membership of a political party means nothing, votes cast do.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
Brown was a superb Chancellor and great statesman.
Sorry, I profoundly disagree.
Statesman? Do you not remember when he was continually shunned and ignored by other world leaders at various summits? Superb Chancellor? I worked in the City throughout his tender, he was the worst since James Callaghan.
Whatever people think of Corbyn, people have to realise that Labour are in opposition and don't have the numbers to influence a government that has no interest in working with them. Had Labour had a different leader, May wouldn't have called the election and it may be more through circumstances than intent, but we are closer to ending Brexit as a result of it. Labour adding the policy of a referendum as a last result at their conference has given the country the ultimate way out of this mess. And it will be taken as it is the only thing that there can be the numbers for.
People have to let them fall into it. The issue we have now, is nobody wants to be the ones blamed for doing it, but it will be done.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
Brown was a superb Chancellor and great statesman.
Sorry, I profoundly disagree.
Statesman? Do you not remember when he was continually shunned and ignored by other world leaders at various summits? Superb Chancellor? I worked in the City throughout his tender, he was the worst since James Callaghan.
No but I do remember his award for world statesman of the year in 2009 being presented to him by Henry Kissinger.
Worse than Major, Howe or Barber? I would say they all were bigger disasters imo.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
We have no idea do we but Labour lost two elections on the back of 'moderates' and looked to be a party in decline. I know my family had stopped voting for them and I had looked toward both the LD and the Greens throughout the noughties.
Brown was a superb Chancellor and great statesman.
Sorry, I profoundly disagree.
Statesman? Do you not remember when he was continually shunned and ignored by other world leaders at various summits? Superb Chancellor? I worked in the City throughout his tender, he was the worst since James Callaghan.
Brown massively expanded state expenditure on the basis of perpetually increasing City of London tax receipts and then doubled down his idiocy by setting up a citizens income 1.0 (tax credits) that were a huge draw to the poorest /least desirable incomers from across Europe. He's one of the primary reasons we find ourselves in a political/economic clusterfick today.
Edit - I almost forgot the 'superb chancellor and great staesman' was instrumental in rasing house prices to stratospheric levels that have enriched a few but caused social and economic misery across the country and left our nation bitterly divided.
I have read the article which effectively repeats stuff posted in the other rather weak links. The tenor of the piece is something along the lines of 'yes Corbyn condemns all atrocities and violence, but there are some pieces of violence and atrocities we think he doesn't condemn enough. It is an opinion piece dressed up in a way that masquerades as factual and informative and certainly, even in the context in which it is presented, does not succeed as proving Corbyn as a friend of terrorists in any way.
"Robin Simcox is the Margaret Thatcher Fellow at The Heritage Foundation’s Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom, where he specializes in counter-terrorism and national security policy.....
He regularly appears on a variety of broadcast and cable news outlets, including Fox News Channel, MSNBC, CNN, CBS, BBC, and Sky News...
In joining Heritage’s Thatcher Center for Freedom and assuming the fellowship that bears the name of the former British prime minister, he became part of the leading policy center in Washington dedicated to strengthening the Anglo-American “special relationship” as well as U.S. and British leadership of the broader transatlantic alliance. Established in 2005, the Thatcher Center is the only public policy center in the world dedicated to advancing the vision and ideals of Lady Thatcher, who died in 2013"
The reason I voted for and support Corbyn’s party is because for the first time, it felt like young people were being listened to.
I have just turned 26. In my parents generation, people at that age started thinking about (if they hadn’t already) buying a house and having a family.
There is no way that could’ve even crossed my mind before 35, if ever, if I was still in the UK. It still hasn’t here in the heart of Trumpland but at least 30 sounds feasible now.
Instead, I and others can’t make plans for our futures. We are in thousands of pounds worth of debt to for-profit education establishments. I don’t want that wiped for myself but I don’t want anyone else to have to go through it because it’s bloody awful.
This point always winds me up, I’m 24, I own my own property and have my own business. I done it all with no hand outs. Just hard work and hard saving. It wasn’t that hard after a while, get yourself a good mortgage broker and you’ll see that you don’t actually need that much money in the grand scheme of things to get on the property ladder. It’s not the governments issue that you and many others chose to riddle yourselves with debt for extra education, why shouldn’t it cost you money?
I voted Tory but until May is gone and they give themselves a good sort out I won’t vote for them again. I however also couldn’t ever vote for Corbyn, but do believe he absolutely walks a general election at this moment in time.
The reason I voted for and support Corbyn’s party is because for the first time, it felt like young people were being listened to.
I have just turned 26. In my parents generation, people at that age started thinking about (if they hadn’t already) buying a house and having a family.
There is no way that could’ve even crossed my mind before 35, if ever, if I was still in the UK. It still hasn’t here in the heart of Trumpland but at least 30 sounds feasible now.
Instead, I and others can’t make plans for our futures. We are in thousands of pounds worth of debt to for-profit education establishments. I don’t want that wiped for myself but I don’t want anyone else to have to go through it because it’s bloody awful.
This point always winds me up, I’m 24, I own my own property and have my own business. I done it all with no hand outs. Just hard work and hard saving. It wasn’t that hard after a while, get yourself a good mortgage broker and you’ll see that you don’t actually need that much money in the grand scheme of things to get on the property ladder. It’s not the governments issue that you and many others chose to riddle yourselves with debt for extra education, why shouldn’t it cost you money?
I voted Tory but until May is gone and they give themselves a good sort out I won’t vote for them again. I however also couldn’t ever vote for Corbyn, but do believe he absolutely walks a general election at this moment in time.
I have never claimed a benefit in my life, but with the wrong breaks things could have been different.The one thing I think you haven't done enough of and I think you should, is to listen to your dad a bit more
It's gone past the stage of being humorous to becoming pretty sad. You've even left the google tags on your link.
Not reading recent responses completely discredits your post and is an outright lie as you spend more time on this forum than any other poster.
You should take your on advise on the abusive PM you sent me (hence me going for Henry on this thread) and don't try and act clever, because it doesn't suit you.
The reason I voted for and support Corbyn’s party is because for the first time, it felt like young people were being listened to.
I have just turned 26. In my parents generation, people at that age started thinking about (if they hadn’t already) buying a house and having a family.
There is no way that could’ve even crossed my mind before 35, if ever, if I was still in the UK. It still hasn’t here in the heart of Trumpland but at least 30 sounds feasible now.
Instead, I and others can’t make plans for our futures. We are in thousands of pounds worth of debt to for-profit education establishments. I don’t want that wiped for myself but I don’t want anyone else to have to go through it because it’s bloody awful.
This point always winds me up, I’m 24, I own my own property and have my own business. I done it all with no hand outs. Just hard work and hard saving. It wasn’t that hard after a while, get yourself a good mortgage broker and you’ll see that you don’t actually need that much money in the grand scheme of things to get on the property ladder. It’s not the governments issue that you and many others chose to riddle yourselves with debt for extra education, why shouldn’t it cost you money?
I voted Tory but until May is gone and they give themselves a good sort out I won’t vote for them again. I however also couldn’t ever vote for Corbyn, but do believe he absolutely walks a general election at this moment in time.
Been critical of the labour party for not dealing with the antisemitism in the party so have to say "well done" for suspending this labour party OFFICIAL (sorry, article doesn't give his membership number) after only two years when the Sunday Times sent them a dossier of his vile tweets.
I'm sure he'll be expelled ASAP let of with a warning and some training
Proof was asked for and that article is pretty conclusive. It took the Sunday Times investigation to get this paid official of the Labour Party ousted. Why was that?
If I posted anything similar on social media, then I suspect I would be rightly sacked within a week.
Been critical of the labour party for not dealing with the antisemitism in the party so have to say "well done" for suspending this labour party OFFICIAL (sorry, article doesn't give his membership number) after only two years when the Sunday Times sent them a dossier of his vile tweets.
I'm sure he'll be expelled ASAP let of with a warning and some training
It remains an article that does not establish that Jeremy Corbyn is a friend of terrorists. Criticise the Labour machine in being slow by all means, but if the buck eventually stops at Corbyn for being the leader...well the bloke was kicked out.
Would the Labour party be doing better now with a more moderate leader, i.e David Miliband or Andy Burnham? I think they would, and would most likely be in government at the moment.
By moderate you mean centrist . The policies in the manifesto at the last election were in the mould of a European Social Democrat
Comments
So I'm unclear how he then has 'credibility' but others pursuing the same policy don't?
Starmer said:
"I set out six tests for the final Brexit deal.
Not just technical tests, but tests that spell out what kind of country we want to live in. Where the well-being of all our communities matters.
Those tests were not plucked from thin air. They were based on the promises the Tories made about the Brexit deal they would deliver. They are tests Theresa May said she was “determined to meet”. Well she may have lowered her expectations, but I haven’t lowered mine.....
If Theresa May brings back a deal that fails our tests – and that looks increasingly likely – Labour will vote against it.....
And when it comes to the vote in Parliament we do not accept that the choice is between whatever deal Theresa May cobbles together or no deal.
So, if Parliament votes down the Prime Minister’s deal or she can’t reach a deal that’s not the end of the debate. Labour must influence what happens next. And we must keep all options on the table.
Our preference is clear:
We want a general election that can sweep away this failed Tory Government. And usher in a radical Labour Government that would put jobs and living standards first.
But if a General Election is not possible then other options must be kept open. That includes campaigning for a public vote.
It is right for Parliament to have the first say but if we need to break the impasse, Labour campaigning for a public vote must be an option.
That’s why I’m happy to throw our full weight behind the motion being debated this morning."
Links below to Starmer's speech to Labour Conference and the policy motion that was passed:
https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmer-speaking-labour-party-conference-today/
https://labourlist.org/2018/09/labours-brexit-composite-motion-in-full/
Superb Chancellor? I worked in the City throughout his tender, he was the worst since James Callaghan.
Just the £2bn lost to the UK economy as he thought Gold was 'volatile'.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/03/jeremy-corbyn-has-a-soft-spot-for-extremists-ira-hamas-hezbollah-britain-labour/amp/
Enjoy
People have to let them fall into it. The issue we have now, is nobody wants to be the ones blamed for doing it, but it will be done.
Worse than Major, Howe or Barber? I would say they all were bigger disasters imo.
Edit - I almost forgot the 'superb chancellor and great staesman' was instrumental in rasing house prices to stratospheric levels that have enriched a few but caused social and economic misery across the country and left our nation bitterly divided.
The tenor of the piece is something along the lines of 'yes Corbyn condemns all atrocities and violence, but there are some pieces of violence and atrocities we think he doesn't condemn enough.
It is an opinion piece dressed up in a way that masquerades as factual and informative and certainly, even in the context in which it is presented, does not succeed as proving Corbyn as a friend of terrorists in any way.
I honestly used to enjoy your posts on here. When did Mr Friendly Fans Director turn bitter?
He regularly appears on a variety of broadcast and cable news outlets, including Fox News Channel, MSNBC, CNN, CBS, BBC, and Sky News...
In joining Heritage’s Thatcher Center for Freedom and assuming the fellowship that bears the name of the former British prime minister, he became part of the leading policy center in Washington dedicated to strengthening the Anglo-American “special relationship” as well as U.S. and British leadership of the broader transatlantic alliance. Established in 2005, the Thatcher Center is the only public policy center in the world dedicated to advancing the vision and ideals of Lady Thatcher, who died in 2013"
https://www.heritage.org/staff/robin-simcox
This point always winds me up, I’m 24, I own my own property and have my own business. I done it all with no hand outs. Just hard work and hard saving. It wasn’t that hard after a while, get yourself a good mortgage broker and you’ll see that you don’t actually need that much money in the grand scheme of things to get on the property ladder. It’s not the governments issue that you and many others chose to riddle yourselves with debt for extra education, why shouldn’t it cost you money?
I voted Tory but until May is gone and they give themselves a good sort out I won’t vote for them again. I however also couldn’t ever vote for Corbyn, but do believe he absolutely walks a general election at this moment in time.
Corbyn pictured with an anti Semite again...
Not reading recent responses completely discredits your post and is an outright lie as you spend more time on this forum than any other poster.
You should take your on advise on the abusive PM you sent me (hence me going for Henry on this thread) and don't try and act clever, because it doesn't suit you.
Now flag away like a good little snowflake.
I'm sure he'll be
expelled ASAPlet of with a warning and some trainingProof was asked for and that article is pretty conclusive. It took the Sunday Times investigation to get this paid official of the Labour Party ousted. Why was that?
If I posted anything similar on social media, then I suspect I would be rightly sacked within a week.
God this country is so right wing