Women’s World Cup

AddicksAddict

soapboxsam said:

I like that blond Swedish player !

So basically, nearly all of them, then!

soapboxsam

AddicksAddict said:

soapboxsam said:

I like that blond Swedish player !

So basically, nearly all of them, then!

Touché AA.

I think the Tournament needed a surprise,
Pleased I said early on that Germany were not the force of 6  years ago, despite expecting them to win today. 

MuttleyCAFC

I would have said we had about 40% chance earlier in the tournament, but think the USA have as many weak areas as England and I like England's spine. I think we are looking at 50-50 at least on Tuesday.

I do think tactics will be important. Neville has to identify the best team to beat the USA. Up to now, I think he is doing a great job.

As for the Swedes, they played to their strengths and exposed Germany's defensive weaknesses. Sometimes the long ball can be effective. I think against  the US, we need to mix it up a bit but I think we can get at them with Bronze and Parris.

I also thought the two US goals were through poor defending. The first was not the keepers fault but a defender had to get a boot on it - it shouldn't have gone through. The second was about not picking up Rapinoe. It is easier scoring against teams like Thailand that let you - I think we are sharper offensively than the US are. We will need to be though!

paulie8290

AddicksAddict said:

soapboxsam said:

I like that blond Swedish player !

So basically, nearly all of them, then!

I assumed that was the joke haha

MuttleyCAFC

soapboxsam said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

The things that give me hope is that I think USA have their share of weaker players. Not poor ones, but they are all not at the same level. France struggled against Norway I thought, and their strength was playing at home.

Bright is powerful and I think you can sort her issues out to a degree by setting her rules - things that she can't do unless she absolutely has to - not through choice. I do get your point about Walsh but I would play her, and I would add Kirby to that who I would drop for Tuesday. I think Stanway ought to start. I think she has the right game for USA. 

I fully agree - Neville has to work out how best to beat the USA. But they are not unbeatable. It will be interesting to see how the Bronze/Parris combo functions against the US who seem decent there defensively. They were extremely poor for the France goal. Ridiculously so. I mean which player do you make sure you mark/put pressure on in that circumstance? We shouldn't big them up to more than they actually are.

When you won that cup with your lad in goal I don't know how many teams entered but I had 32 teams in the cup my team won and we were never favourites in any Round. 
The semi final we beat a team that was a division higher and had won every match in that season where we were a mid table team.
Fortunately I found out they had two good goal scorings wingers  so we doubled up on them and despite only having two shots on goal ourselves we knew their weakest player was their keeper and my lad knocked in the rebound.

Happy days, but the moral to this story is it's Neville's job to find the weakest in the Opposition and nullify their strengths.

When this team walks out "She believes" every girl in the squad must believe they can win this game. Anything less than A* and we won't.
As a fan my job is too point out the facts, and the facts state that not only are the USA the 3 time holders and number 1team, but they punish teams who make mistakes at the back.

We have a 40% chance of winning this. Check out the bookies.

The USA are beatable BUT...

In terms of my team winning the cup, I can't claim any great tactical acumen. We came third in the fourth division the previous season and were strangely promoted to the first this due to the league being crazy and useless. We were the cannon fodder set up for the top sides that have always played a level or two above us. And we carried the chip on our shoulder over that through the season. I just had lads that don't like losing which is more about them than me and we played to our limitations and found a way together. Yes, we had more fines than I care to report (having hardly any in the fourth division) and our own club threatened to close us down because of it a couple of times, but we got through that and losing our first two games 6-1 and finished third with a negative goal difference and won the cup against a side that had two lads on paid contracts playing for them.

We went out to win the game, not stopping them - had seven bookings and yet more fines, but we beat a team we had no right to beat. Not one of our lads thought we were going to lose that game. The only thing I can take from that experience is that I don't think the Lionesses think they are going to lose. I can sense that from what I have seen on the pitch and interviews off it. And unlike us, they are as talented as any other team in the finals. I'm putting my money on England. Allied to that, Neville has shown that he knows the best tactics to employ and the ladies are capable of following them.   

LenGlover

Everyone is talking about Rapone and Morgan for the USA but Heath on the other wing goes quietly about her business and gets her share of crosses in. I'd have Stokes again as I think she is a better marker than Greenwood and will do a better job of neutralising Heath.

MuttleyCAFC

Me too. I'd put Stanway in for Kirby as well. Not anything against Kirby but she is a bit too hit and miss with her passing and play. 

hoof_it_up_to_benty

Can't see England winning with Bright in the team.

soapboxsam

"We went out to win the game, not stopping them"
By stopping a superior team by playing a defensive formation we gave ourselves a chance of winning it. The U12 still listened. and unlike your age group the testosterone wasn't as bad so no red cards and fines.
After winning the semi final against a team from Peckham, the only game they lost all season we played a team from Orpington, a team that was in our division and a team who had already done the double over us.
There manager told his players they would win(overheard in the dressing room) we told our boys we could win. We played counter attacking because we had two fast forward and wanted then to play a high line. We won 3-2 by scoring a goal similar to Sweden's 1st goal.  I loved it when a plan came together. We were mediocre in the League but magic in the cup. Most of their young teams were in tears because their manager said they would win and they had already beaten us twice But they didn't. 

@MuttleyCAFC

England have to believe they can win because they are talented and hearing the impressive Neville talk they do. The USA women believe they are invincible and coming second in a football tournament is a complete anathema to them. I will be nervous because I'm just a fan and can't influence the result. Both teams believe they will win. 
We are due a good semi final after the disappointing Japanese match in Canada and the poor show against the Dutch in the Euro's when we lost 3-0.

Ps. I don't think England should play defensive but will need to cover Bronze on her charges up field.

MuttleyCAFC

I don't think USA are superior though. The tide is changing in women's football.

MuttleyCAFC

We had the same Soapbox, teams were not happy about being beaten by us. We were a three pass team, England are a four or five. You know what you are and play accordingly. Maybe USA are a six or seven being generous. But that doesn't make any difference if you are better at your game than they are at theirs. And it is easier for USA to be a bit below par than it is for England.

Chris_from_Sidcup

MuttleyCAFC said:

I don't think USA are superior though. The tide is changing in women's football.

This is their record:

Reached at least the semi finals of every single world cup. 4 defeats in 48 games.
Have won 4 out of 6 Olympic games. 2 defeats in 33 games.
Have won 9 out of 10 CONCACAF Gold cups. 1 defeat in 39.

7 defeats in 120 games at major tournaments. Pretty impressive really.

Also 8 of their squad have over 100 caps. Obviously they're not unbeatable, but they've seen it and done it on the big stage. A wealth of big game experience counts for a lot when you get to the latter stages of a big tournament.

MuttleyCAFC

It isn't just the record - it is how they match up to England and how they do against teams of England's quality.

soapboxsam

Chris and Muttley, I have liked both your posts. Muttley because I so want this to be true and England make the break through to become the new kings, sorry Queens of football. 
Chris I like your post because the USA women have dominated women's football and their players have so many caps, nous and self confidence.
I stick to England having a 40% chance of winning. Tuesday night COULD go down as one of the great nights in English sport. 

IF and a very big IF, England would then have a 50% chance against the Euro Champions, Netherlands or a 60% chance of beating Sweden.

MuttleyCAFC

I have England winning by at least two clear goals on Tuesday

SDAddick

LenGlover said:

Everyone is talking about Rapone and Morgan for the USA but Heath on the other wing goes quietly about her business and gets her share of crosses in. I'd have Stokes again as I think she is a better marker than Greenwood and will do a better job of neutralising Heath.

MuttleyCAFC said:

It was hard not to feel for Japan last night. They seem to need a bit of time to get going with their passing game, but when it is working it is great to watch. But the are always vulnerable to a bit of power and lack a cutting edge sadly. If they can address that, they will become a force. I have been a bit underwhelmed with Holland. There is no way they can win this tournament unless they are extremely fortunate.

I would make the USA and Germany favourites then England and France. I can't see the winner coming outside of these four.

Some of my mates rate Heath very, very highly, and she plays for my local club here. But she can go missing very badly in matches, especially big games. A fantastically gifted player and a true joy to watch. Capable of getting you off your seat. But I always have questioned her end product and decision making. A good player mind, and one where if you focus too much on Morgan (who can get bullied, this was a known), and Rapinoe (who is playing out of her skin, at 33 or whatever,, all of her remarkable talent has really come together), but I would honestly take my chances with Heath rather than those two or Lavelle (who is a lovely playmaker and can make that team tick and who I have a massive schoolboy crush on). 

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I don't think USA are superior though. The tide is changing in women's football.

This is their record:

Reached at least the semi finals of every single world cup. 4 defeats in 48 games.
Have won 4 out of 6 Olympic games. 2 defeats in 33 games.
Have won 9 out of 10 CONCACAF Gold cups. 1 defeat in 39.

7 defeats in 120 games at major tournaments. Pretty impressive really.

Also 8 of their squad have over 100 caps. Obviously they're not unbeatable, but they've seen it and done it on the big stage. A wealth of big game experience counts for a lot when you get to the latter stages of a big tournament.

And this has shown in their last couple of matches. They haven't been brilliant, but they have shown that little bit of nous, that moment of quality, against two good sides. They are by no means unbeatable. Dahlkemper isn't a great defender. Dunn isn't a LB and that shows in her positioning. Years of injuries have taken their toll on O'Hara and Sauebrunn (who remains a very, very good defender, just a step slower). Naeher has a mistake in her, both in her decision making and on the ball. She was chosen to be the number one about two years ago, and I think it was the right choice at the time, and they went through all the friendlies of the last two years with her almost exclusively in goal. But the decision to do that, to not try out someone like Franch, who I believe is a better keeper, now looks...questionable. 

As for the dominance of the US, I think you only need to look at how many players have played in the US Youth, University, and Professional systems to see the dominance. This includes Santa Monica's own Karen Bardsley (given she's roughly my age and the club team she played for, I'm sure I knew people in high school who played with/against her growing up).

I'm not saying this to be an arrogant American, and I am genuinely pleased to see women's football getting the grassroots resources it deserves in other countries. But for many reasons (all of which I find interesting, even if I struggle to explain them), I think the US remains the Mecca of women's football. It won't be like this forever, but we arguably have a 20 year head start. And because of that infrastructure, we are able to attract some of the best women's coaches. The national team's Jill Ellis (Portsmouth born), for one. Three of the best coaches in the NWSL, Mark Parsons, Paul Riley, and Laura Harvey, are all English. So it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, in some ways. 

Algarveaddick

Cut out the errors and England can beat the USA. But for every England team, male or female - in every team sport - that has been our undoing for years and years and years...   

soapboxsam

Algarveaddick said:

Cut out the errors and England can beat the USA. But for every England team, male or female - in every team sport - that has been our undoing for years and years and years...   

Agreed, whether team or individual sport.
Joanne Konta is English now, she has lived in Eastbourne for the past 14 years and you can't be more English than that despite her not drawing her pension yet !
I saw her snatch defeat from the jaws of victory against a player she should of beaten at the French semi final. 5-2 up and 15-40 on her opponent serve she messed up an easy smash to take the 1st set when the other girl had already given up the point.
5-2 up again in the 2nd set she messed up again.

England fans motivated the Croatian team in the semi final of WC, By singing, shouting and humming " Football's coming home" I love this song but it back fired as the proud Croatians thought we were taking the piss by dismissing them. Cuttings from the biased English media were put up in the dressing room according to their players. Sterling being picked every game at that time despite 30 odd games without a goal and Kane injured or not preferring to play his best football between September and May !
Yes we have had some semi final heartache,
Euro 96 and 1990 stay lodged in the mind and refuse to move on.
Andy Murray was good in Semi finals as a British player despite losing many finals as a Scot(Barring two Wimbledon's and a US slam win !)
Sorry @Weegie Addick I couldn't help myself, I want 28 other offences to be taken into consideration !

MuttleyCAFC

The problem against Croatia is that we had something to defend and believed we could and Croatia had to go for it. It is a common mentality you have to try to get out of players. 

soapboxsam

MuttleyCAFC said:

The problem against Croatia is that we had something to defend and believed we could and Croatia had to go for it. It is a common mentality you have to try to get out of players. 

How similar was that to the second leg at the Valley when after leading 2-1 from first leg and Bielik early Goal Charlton didn't know whether to stick or twist and while we thought about our options Donny went for it big time. Sunderland did the same at Wembley after taking the early lead from the comic/tragic own goal, Sunderland should but fortunately didn't totally commit for going for the jugular  as for 10 minutes Charlton were there for the taking, after surviving that period, the Cafc cream rose to the top and the rest is history.

soapboxsam

paulie8290 said:

How many welsh would start anyway, could say the same with scottish.

Not sure if their are age rules like the men, but if not u have to say Weir and maybe Beattie start and Cuthbert to come off the bench but other than that it would be mainly english anyway

Only Cuthbert would be a cert for the squad, Kim Little if she showed her form for Arsenal as opposed to her subdued performance in this WC. Emsley the lively forward who came on as sub against England has left Man city to play alongside Morgan for Orlando next season, she will continue to improve. 
Beattie and Weir will be considered but out of the 23 squad, I would estimate about 18/19 will be English, similar to 2012.

Phil Neville confirmed yesterday that he and his coaching staff will lead the Olympic team so  a common sense appointment to cash in on a team on a Crest of a wave.
(Whatever the result on Tuesday)

letthegoodtimesroll

MuttleyCAFC said:

I don't think USA are superior though. The tide is changing in women's football.

I think they were superior and that’s what will bring about the downfall if they are not careful. They had a head start in that the US was probably the only country in the world where the mens’ game doesn’t dominate. When they were originally successful it created a band wagon which they’ve done well to exploit but the problem now is the big European teams have got into the act more and more and some of the football in this World Cup looks a mirror image of the footballing styles we are used to seeing in the PL and Champions league. England in particular, for me,  have been so impressive in their passing game. What I’ve seen of the USA reminds me a bit of the National team over here years ago which thought it was superior and got left behind as a result.

ValleyGary

I’m not sure I buy into the whole ‘footballs coming home working against us’ theory. It was an in joke and piss take of ourselves before a ball was even kicked. The first people that knew it wasn’t coming home were the English.

vff

England have a great spine of the team, very good attack up front &great belief & team spirit. They made Norway look ordinary. They are also very physically fit & should be able to match US on that level. The squad rotation will help as well. Phil Neville has done a great job so far. 

The English defence is a bit error prone. No other team has picked up on it but the US team might. If England get a good start, they definitely have a chance.

soapboxsam

ValleyGary said:

I’m not sure I buy into the whole ‘footballs coming home working against us’ theory. It was an in joke and piss take of ourselves before a ball was even kicked. The first people that knew it wasn’t coming home were the English.

At WC time people watch football who have little interest any other time. My non football but spoken word/poetry performing friends seemed convinced football was coming home. They didn't get the joke and thought a little country in the Balkans would roll  over. I tried too explain but they had seen the headlines and thought my pessimism was getting the better of me. We can agree to disagree.

AddicksAddict

paulie8290 said:

AddicksAddict said:

soapboxsam said:

I like that blond Swedish player !

So basically, nearly all of them, then!

I assumed that was the joke haha

Jag har varit wooshed?

soapboxsam

AddicksAddict said:

paulie8290 said:

AddicksAddict said:

soapboxsam said:

I like that blond Swedish player !

So basically, nearly all of them, then!

I assumed that was the joke haha

Jag har varit wooshed?

Decent of you to admit it AA.

NorthheathAddick

AddicksAddict

NorthheathAddick said:

That’s fine.  Much keener to get into training than bother with that parking nonsense. 

ForeverAddickted

ValleyGary said:

I’m not sure I buy into the whole ‘footballs coming home working against us’ theory. It was an in joke and piss take of ourselves before a ball was even kicked. The first people that knew it wasn’t coming home were the English.

Its what I love about the English sense of humour

People just dont get it and think we're being arrogant when in truth we are just taking the piss out of ourselves