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England Cricket Team Summer 2019 -ICC World Cup and Ashes etc

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  • LenGlover
    LenGlover Posts: 31,681
    Lincsaddick said:
    LenGlover said:
    cantersaddick said:
    kentaddick said:
    Mentioned this on the Kent thread, but would be interested to put on here.

    could we get an 11 of all time English players that never played for England?

    id start with adding hildreth and Darren Stevens. Anyone else? 
    Gonna be pretty rare in the last few years. Most decent players coming though get a cap in one format or another.
    Some Kentish names that come to mind are Neil Taylor, Kevin Jarvis and Graham Johnson.
    LenGlover said:
    cantersaddick said:
    kentaddick said:
    Mentioned this on the Kent thread, but would be interested to put on here.

    could we get an 11 of all time English players that never played for England?

    id start with adding hildreth and Darren Stevens. Anyone else? 
    Gonna be pretty rare in the last few years. Most decent players coming though get a cap in one format or another.
    Some Kentish names that come to mind are Neil Taylor, Kevin Jarvis and Graham Johnson.

    I'll raise your Jarvis .. Dave Halfyard
    I just missed out on seeing him play for Kent as he had the road accident that took him out of the first class game for many years around the time I first became interested in the game.

    However, from what I've read about him, he was a difficult bowler to classify, not really  'quick' yet not a spinner either and as he didn't bat was probably considered a gamble too far by conservative selectors of the time.
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 17,033
    Interesting article here on squads for NZ.

    https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/banner/sibley_pope_and_gregory_our_writers_select__england_squads_new_zealand.html

    interesting one, because it doesn't count to the test championship there is a lot of talk of resting players after the busiest summer ever. I would certainly rest the multi format players except Root who will go as captain (but I would rest him for the limited overs part of the tour). So rest Stokes, Woakes, Archer? (I would take him) Bairstow and Buttler (though the last 2 would likely be dropped anyway). 

    I would go with:
    Burns, Sibley, Denly, Root, Pope, Foakes, Curran, Archer, Leach, Broad, Anderson 

    Sibley deserves a go, Denly would be much better at 3 - a role he is more familiar with - and gives Root more protection. Pope and Foakes both deserve a go. Curran plays as the all rounder in the absense of Stokes. 

    In the squad:
    Crawley, Lawrence, Billings, Dawson, Wood/Stone, Gregory
    Crawley next opener in line, would like to see Lawrence have a go as he is a talented player even if he hasn't always got the runs to back it up. Billings next keeper batsman in line and end of season form warrants the call up. In the absence of Moeen/ Rashid I don't really know of any spinners worthy of a call up. Harmer will play in time whether or not you agree with it, Virdi isn't ready and shouldn't be thrown in. Toss up between Dawson and Bess really. Wood/Stone as back up quick depending on who is fit. Would like to see Gregory given a go though I suspect he may fall into the Tom Curran 'Almost' category. If Jimmy isn't fit i would bring in Porter.

    Back ups/just miss out
    Malan has had a good year and could be worth another go. Hassan Azad is another young opener but is behind Sibley/Crawley.
    Northeast or Sam Hain would be ahead of Vince (and Roy) as middle order back up.
    Overton/Tom Curran/Porter covering the quick bowlers slots.
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 70,014
    In the Sunday Times yesterday, it seems certain that Root will drop back to 4, so assuming Sibley gets called up, he'll either open or play at 3 if the management don't want to break up Burns and Denly - I'd certainly prefer Denly at 3.

    I don't think Crawley is ready yet for the main team, he ended the season poorly  as well. Sam Hain should be ahead of him 
  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,897
    I agree with everything that @cantersaddick says. Doubt it will happen though as the selectors are bottle jobs.
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,401
    Hain is the unfortunate combination of being Australian and Warwickshire. Would prefer him not to waltz into the side tbh
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 17,033
    edited September 2019
    killerandflash said:
    In the Sunday Times yesterday, it seems certain that Root will drop back to 4, so assuming Sibley gets called up, he'll either open or play at 3 if the management don't want to break up Burns and Denly - I'd certainly prefer Denly at 3.

    I don't think Crawley is ready yet for the main team, he ended the season poorly  as well. Sam Hain should be ahead of him 
    Isn't Sam Hain more of a middle order batsman? Certainly a risk with Crawley that we throw him in before he is ready and it sets him back - see Sam Robson - so perhaps a lions tour would be better for him to develop. Conversely they may say being around the test side might help him.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    Definitely give crawley another season. Looks class when he plays well but has had a bad last 2-3 months
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,786
    O know he's played for SA but I'd get Simon Harmer into the next Test squad. Best spinner I've seen for a while. 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,401
    That would be terrible for all sorts of reasons, chiefly that he isn't remotely qualified for England yet
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 70,014
    cantersaddick said:
    killerandflash said:
    In the Sunday Times yesterday, it seems certain that Root will drop back to 4, so assuming Sibley gets called up, he'll either open or play at 3 if the management don't want to break up Burns and Denly - I'd certainly prefer Denly at 3.

    I don't think Crawley is ready yet for the main team, he ended the season poorly  as well. Sam Hain should be ahead of him 
    Isn't Sam Hain more of a middle order batsman? Certainly a risk with Crawley that we throw him in before he is ready and it sets him back - see Sam Robson - so perhaps a lions tour would be better for him to develop. Conversely they may say being around the test side might help him.
    Maybe have Hain as cover for number 3 or 4 and use Denly as the opener cover if he's picked to be more of a number 3. 


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  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,401
    Even if Harmer was qualified for England, picking him would be proof (if it were needed) that the ECB doesn't give a shit about cricket
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,401
    Let's pick Abbott and Olivier while we're about it
  • McBobbin
    McBobbin Posts: 12,060
    Is hameed well and truly shot?
  • The_President
    The_President Posts: 14,280
    Cant see that Malan is progress tbh - had his chance, and failed at the highest level.
    Agree with Pope,Gregory and Sibley - they seem to be the obvious next 3 off the rank.
    I get the feeling that Stokes and Archer are players who want to keep playing, especially with Stokes playing at 'home'.
    Dawson...nah - simply doesnt have it at top level, so why persevere?
  • Johnnysummers5
    Johnnysummers5 Posts: 8,469
    I would prefer Virdi to Dawson, Virdi has taken 23 wickets at 19.65 in 4 matches, Dawson 9 wickets at 59.78, Dawson is having a good season with the bat, but he has been picked for England and dropped, I don't think he is a good enough spin bowler, Virdi is young it would be a great experience for him
  • The_President
    The_President Posts: 14,280
    golfaddick said:
    O know he's played for SA but I'd get Simon Harmer into the next Test squad. Best spinner I've seen for a while. 
    No thanks.
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 17,033
    The_President said:
    Cant see that Malan is progress tbh - had his chance, and failed at the highest level.
    Agree with Pope,Gregory and Sibley - they seem to be the obvious next 3 off the rank.
    I get the feeling that Stokes and Archer are players who want to keep playing, especially with Stokes playing at 'home'.
    Dawson...nah - simply doesnt have it at top level, so why persevere?
    I'm not one for going back but Malan has had a decent year - is still young and has captaincy experience. Remember he has an ashes ton down under to his name and was dropped due to poor form rather than anything technical. He's not liekly to play if we are at full strength but as a backup in a squad where we have rested players I think he serves a role.

    Dawson - well who else would you pick as backup spinner- Moeen and Rash aren't playing red ball who else is there? Bess hasn't even got in Somerset's side this year at Ciderabad. He was sent out on loan to Yorkshire for half the season. Dawson hasn't done badly when called upon and can bat.
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 70,014
    cantersaddick said:
    The_President said:
    Cant see that Malan is progress tbh - had his chance, and failed at the highest level.
    Agree with Pope,Gregory and Sibley - they seem to be the obvious next 3 off the rank.
    I get the feeling that Stokes and Archer are players who want to keep playing, especially with Stokes playing at 'home'.
    Dawson...nah - simply doesnt have it at top level, so why persevere?
    I'm not one for going back but Malan has had a decent year - is still young and has captaincy experience. Remember he has an ashes ton down under to his name and was dropped due to poor form rather than anything technical. He's not liekly to play if we are at full strength but as a backup in a squad where we have rested players I think he serves a role.

    Dawson - well who else would you pick as backup spinner- Moeen and Rash aren't playing red ball who else is there? Bess hasn't even got in Somerset's side this year at Ciderabad. He was sent out on loan to Yorkshire for half the season. Dawson hasn't done badly when called upon and can bat.
    Denly was originally called up, partially on his ability to bowl his leggies. Between him and Root they could cover some of the spin requirement if Leach was absent
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 17,033
    killerandflash said:
    cantersaddick said:
    The_President said:
    Cant see that Malan is progress tbh - had his chance, and failed at the highest level.
    Agree with Pope,Gregory and Sibley - they seem to be the obvious next 3 off the rank.
    I get the feeling that Stokes and Archer are players who want to keep playing, especially with Stokes playing at 'home'.
    Dawson...nah - simply doesnt have it at top level, so why persevere?
    I'm not one for going back but Malan has had a decent year - is still young and has captaincy experience. Remember he has an ashes ton down under to his name and was dropped due to poor form rather than anything technical. He's not liekly to play if we are at full strength but as a backup in a squad where we have rested players I think he serves a role.

    Dawson - well who else would you pick as backup spinner- Moeen and Rash aren't playing red ball who else is there? Bess hasn't even got in Somerset's side this year at Ciderabad. He was sent out on loan to Yorkshire for half the season. Dawson hasn't done badly when called upon and can bat.
    Denly was originally called up, partially on his ability to bowl his leggies. Between him and Root they could cover some of the spin requirement if Leach was absent
    Would you be happy with a bowling attack of 4 quicks (including Curran as 4th quick) and then Root/Denly as your only spinners? I wouldn't. The role of the spinner in tests is as much about holding up an end and keeping it tight to build pressure as it is about taking wickets. Both of these can take some tap and will struggle with that role. Putt too much workload on your quicks.
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 17,033
    Johnnysummers5 said:
    I would prefer Virdi to Dawson, Virdi has taken 23 wickets at 19.65 in 4 matches, Dawson 9 wickets at 59.78, Dawson is having a good season with the bat, but he has been picked for England and dropped, I don't think he is a good enough spin bowler, Virdi is young it would be a great experience for him
    No. No no no no no no no no no no no no and please no.

    Too young to be thrown in to an England quad and ruined. I've watched a lot of Virdi for surrey and whilst he is a great talent, there is no way he is ready. Bar one game on a raging turner against Notts who were massively struggling - he took 14 wickets at next to nothing - he has been out bowled by Batty this season. I'm pretty sure if we had anything to play for Batty would be playing these last few games of the season. Amar has also had a number of stress fracture injuries and earlier this season when he recovered from injuries he was dropped due to fitness and weight issues.

    The boy needs to mature as a person and a bowler get experience of playing more and then we should consider him.

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  • The_President
    The_President Posts: 14,280
    cantersaddick said:
    The_President said:
    Cant see that Malan is progress tbh - had his chance, and failed at the highest level.
    Agree with Pope,Gregory and Sibley - they seem to be the obvious next 3 off the rank.
    I get the feeling that Stokes and Archer are players who want to keep playing, especially with Stokes playing at 'home'.
    Dawson...nah - simply doesnt have it at top level, so why persevere?
    I'm not one for going back but Malan has had a decent year - is still young and has captaincy experience. Remember he has an ashes ton down under to his name and was dropped due to poor form rather than anything technical. He's not liekly to play if we are at full strength but as a backup in a squad where we have rested players I think he serves a role.

    Dawson - well who else would you pick as backup spinner- Moeen and Rash aren't playing red ball who - maybe lse is there? Bess hasn't even got in Somerset's side this year at Ciderabad. He was sent out on loan to Yorkshire for half the season. Dawson hasn't done badly when called upon and can bat.
    Im not sure that picking someone just because he is the best of the rest is a good enough reason tbh.His Test record is fairly poor, 7 wickets in (ok only) 3 Tests at 47.
    NZ is not exactly known as a raging spinners paradise either. Yeah, let Root be the 'backup' - actually think he's a better spinner than Dawson anyway.
    Malan has had his go, not really performed other than his century, let someone else have a go who might be a better long term bet (whoever that might be!).
  • paulie8290
    paulie8290 Posts: 23,345
    England's Test squad for the tour of New Zealand:

    Root
    Archer
    Broad
    Burns
    Buttler
    Crawley
    S. Curran
    Denly
    Leach
    Mahmood
    Parkinson
    Pope
    Sibley
    Stokes
    Woakes
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 17,033
    No Foakes? WTF. Buttler to keep? Really!
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 17,033
    Other than that not too unhappy
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 17,033
    Interestingly enough I was at the oval on saturday and stopped Ben Foakes after training for a chat and a photo. I said good luck for NZ and the winter tours to which he simply raised his eyebrows. At the time I took it as "I'm not allowed to say" seems he may have known then. Hope he gets to bat today and take out some of his annoyance on the Notts bowlers.
  • The_President
    The_President Posts: 14,280
    Ah, Parkinson - forgot all about him, good spinner - better than Dawson.
    Good squad. So, Mahmood,Sibley and Crawley then.
    No Jimmy - was that expected?
    When does it start?
  • Johnnysummers5
    Johnnysummers5 Posts: 8,469
    cantersaddick said:
    Johnnysummers5 said:
    I would prefer Virdi to Dawson, Virdi has taken 23 wickets at 19.65 in 4 matches, Dawson 9 wickets at 59.78, Dawson is having a good season with the bat, but he has been picked for England and dropped, I don't think he is a good enough spin bowler, Virdi is young it would be a great experience for him
    No. No no no no no no no no no no no no and please no.

    Too young to be thrown in to an England quad and ruined. I've watched a lot of Virdi for surrey and whilst he is a great talent, there is no way he is ready. Bar one game on a raging turner against Notts who were massively struggling - he took 14 wickets at next to nothing - he has been out bowled by Batty this season. I'm pretty sure if we had anything to play for Batty would be playing these last few games of the season. Amar has also had a number of stress fracture injuries and earlier this season when he recovered from injuries he was dropped due to fitness and weight issues.

    The boy needs to mature as a person and a bowler get experience of playing more and then we should consider him.

    After reading that, I think you are right it probably is to soon for Virdi, I don't think Dawson should be picked, I hope Moeen can find form again, he was very good on finals day with the white ball.
  • paulie8290
    paulie8290 Posts: 23,345


    England's T20I squad for the tour of New Zealand:

    Morgan
    Bairstow
    Banton
    Billings
    Brown
    S. Curran
    T. Curran
    Denly
    Gregory
    Jordan
    Mahmood
    Malan
    Parkinson
    Rashid
  • The_President
    The_President Posts: 14,280
    edited September 2019
    Ah ha, Morgs not retired then.
    Good to see Banton there.But no Stokes or Buttler.
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 17,033
    Odd no Jason ROy in either of the white ball squads.

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