Derby County vs Charlton Athletic 30th December 2019 post-match views

Cardinal Sin

Hartleypete said:

Terrible effort, the two worst full backs in the division by a mile and they stayed on!!!!

Behave. Chris Solly fits nowhere near that description and there are worse than Purrington.

Talal

ForeverAddickted said:

Louis Mendez confirming that Bonne will miss Swansea with a hammy, no one else already absent will be back in time for it

One up top and pray to all the imaginary gods for a draw.

Cafc43v3r

Posting with out reading

We don't have a small squad!!  I would bet we have used the most players in the divison and Alfie and Albie aren't the problem. 

If we did it wouldn't excuse Solly stopping the 1st goal, I assume Solly isn't the scapegoat?

Poor subs, not the players he brought on but the players he took off. 

The take over has fried some fans mind, we will stay up.  Get Cullen and Williams on the pitch and we win that game 

Get a forward and a center half or left back and we will finish top ten. 

The_Organiser

Bowyer summed it up perfectly in his interview. Very honest.

I’ve been the first to defend us in most games but that was piss poor in every area, arguably when you’d think we’d have been on a reasonably relative high following the win on Boxing Day and an extra days rest.

Fear for the Swansea game based on that showing but football is a funny old game.

MuttleyCAFC

I'd play Sarr up front for that one. I don't think Bowyer does desperate very well though, even though desperate is the only way to get something form that game!

supaclive

ValleyGary said:

I thought Sarr played well although I did think the goal came from his loose pass. But, he isn’t the problem. Our full backs are poor and Purringtons 7/10 have turned to 5’s. Solly isn’t good enough. However, the formation we play means they get zero protection and against clever championship players they get shown up. This isn’t Rochdale and Wycombe anymore.

You were not at the game.  Sky cameras don't show you him standing there with his hands on his knees blowing out of his arse!

Greenie Junior

At what point do we stop saying the injuries are ‘bad luck’ and start questioning either something at the training ground or the physio team? I’ve never ever known a football team to have such a bad run of injuries. 

Also how Chris Solly gets anywhere near a championship team, let alone starts for one is beyond me, the geezer is shot to pieces.

killerandflash

Rob7Lee said:

killerandflash said:

Been to 8 away games this season and in EVERY one of them we’ve let in 2 goals.......

I think we've found the issue 

Fair point, I didn’t go to Boro and we only lost 1-0...

ForeverAddickted

killerandflash said:

Rob7Lee said:

killerandflash said:

Been to 8 away games this season and in EVERY one of them we’ve let in 2 goals.......

I think we've found the issue 

Fair point, I didn’t go to Boro and we only lost 1-0...

Are you going to Swansea?

Dazzler21

cabbles said:

Leuth said:

Sarr can't defend and had a liability of a second half? He cut out at least 2 dangerous crosses in the second half and made a brilliantly-timed last man challenge. He isn't unfit - he's played a lot of games in a very short space of time, so when Gallagher lost the ball from his pass he wasn't able to recover to catch up with the Derby players - others should have helped! Phillips saved it anyway. Sarr did a lot of good defending. It is completely mystifying why some people want to make him the scapegoat when he gives more than many others

To be honest mate I think you are a bit blinkered when it comes to him.  Another goal conceded tonight as a result of his poor pass.  It’s not about him giving more than the others when the whole of the back line look poor at the moment.  It’s about him not being good enough defensively at this level.  It will continue to happen time and time again 

It wasn't a defensive action. He played a ball that two players could have come for, neither did and so the Derby player stole in and took it. A bad pass? Yes. It should gave been better, but two of our players didn't come for the pass. That's basics.

His defensive work tonight was decent. He did most things right. Lockyer probably made a similar number of errors but was protected by a defender beside him in Solly. Purrington was too busy heading off on an adventure that Bilbo Baggins would be proud of to offer Sarr either an option or to support him when Derby intercepted.

Croydon

In the car on the way back. It simply wasn’t good enough. Tactics all wrong against a team who haven’t won in 7. 3 times this season we’ve conceded against 10 men and that’s with our full strength team and the bare bones - tactics not right there.

Bone pulling up with a hammy 30 mins in? What the fuck are we doing in our warm ups. Questions needs to be asked over our training methods/medical team because that is yet another injury which will no doubt have a lengthy lay off. Still no sign of Williams, Chuks Lapslie who should all have been back by now.

I have a sneaky feeling that those who are being more level headed in their comments tonight weren’t actually there this evening. Just let us rant, I’m sure we’ll have calmed down tomorrow but it felt like a shambles there this evening. 

MuttleyCAFC

Also, first rule when you chase the game with minutes to go. Don't foul. Not sure how professional footballers don't understand that. They are more than happy to be weak when the game is young.

ross1

How many more times will Pratley get a yellow card for dissent. I thought he was our MOM, but he keeps getting booked for this and with his experience, it should not be happening. Callagher also too many yellows. We have enough injured players, without losing these two for two games when they reach 10 yellow cards

sirjohnhumphrey

Dazzler21 said:

cabbles said:

Leuth said:

Sarr can't defend and had a liability of a second half? He cut out at least 2 dangerous crosses in the second half and made a brilliantly-timed last man challenge. He isn't unfit - he's played a lot of games in a very short space of time, so when Gallagher lost the ball from his pass he wasn't able to recover to catch up with the Derby players - others should have helped! Phillips saved it anyway. Sarr did a lot of good defending. It is completely mystifying why some people want to make him the scapegoat when he gives more than many others

To be honest mate I think you are a bit blinkered when it comes to him.  Another goal conceded tonight as a result of his poor pass.  It’s not about him giving more than the others when the whole of the back line look poor at the moment.  It’s about him not being good enough defensively at this level.  It will continue to happen time and time again 

It wasn't a defensive action. He played a ball that two players could have come for, neither did and so the Derby player stole in and took it. A bad pass? Yes. It should gave been better, but two of our players didn't come for the pass. That's basics.

It’s Sarr’s job to make sure the ball reaches the player in that situation and that position. A firm pass to feet was needed. He mucked it up by telegraphing it and then by being inaccurate. I don’t mind him as a player but that was his fault.

killerandflash

ForeverAddickted said:

killerandflash said:

Rob7Lee said:

killerandflash said:

Been to 8 away games this season and in EVERY one of them we’ve let in 2 goals.......

I think we've found the issue 

Fair point, I didn’t go to Boro and we only lost 1-0...

Are you going to Swansea?

Happily no...

FishCostaFortune

Scoham said:

FishCostaFortune said:

ForeverAddickted said:

FishCostaFortune said:

ForeverAddickted said:

FishCostaFortune said:

Yet another game we lost by one goal, and yet another game one of those goals we condeded was from a terrible bit of basic defending.

But yeah injuries. 

So you think Doughty | Dempsey | Davison | Morgan | Vennings would all be involved with the First Team if it werent for injuries?

Yeah, okay!!

What's that got to do with us conceding another poor goal, from another poor bit of defending fundamentals?

Go back and look at the highlights of our last 5 to 10 games. We have have drawn or lost most of them apart from Sheffield Wednesday by only one goal. I'm not having that convenient excuse about injuries being the reason we are conceding those poor goals.

Our defense has been what has been poor for us for a long while now, and they have been the fit blokes. 

But who protects the Defence? - The Midfield!!... Who are in the Midfield?

Only experienced player you can rely on from that area is Pratley who hasnt put a foot wrong

Derby second goal comes from the Defence getting it out of the penalty spot and then the inexperienced midfielder (Morgan) not clearing the ball further from danger - Ball is being kicked anywhere because we dont have the Midfielders to carry the ball to safety and so create an attack of our own!!... If we had Williams or Cullen on the pitch then the ball is brought down and a long ball is sent for Taylor to run on to

Once again. Go back, look at some of the goals we have conceded, and look at how many have been from a duff clearance, or a poor pass, or a player not jumping or making a simple block. That's not down to the midfield, the down to the defender not doing the fundamentals correctly. 

I'm not having a go at LB's management, or the players effort. In fact I think we are doing incredibly well as we are competing in each and every game which is testament to them.

I am however starting to get annoyed at people simply just blaming injuries or knackered players to cover up for mistakes that I personally don't think we should be making. 

The defence is under a lot of pressure because our midfield and attack aren’t good enough at winning the ball, keeping possession, creating chances and scoring goals.

To add to that we have full backs that offer nothing going forward which further limits what we can do when we have the ball.

To properly compete at this level we need more players in the squad with the quality of Taylor, Williams, Cullen, Lockyer and Gallagher.

Our budget has meant it’s questionable whether the back ups in Aneke, JFC, Oztumer etc are good enough, but they’re at least experienced pro’s proven in the leagues below.

Morgan, Doughty etc on the other hand earlier this season were playing u23 football, or in non-league divisions which aren’t even fully professional. I’m not surprised they struggled, some of them started the season as what, 12-15th choices in midfield? I get Bowyer saying no excuses, he’s got to push them as much as he can, but the midfield and attack that ended the game today doesn’t have the quality and experience for League 1, never mind the Championship. That’s not an excuse, it’s the reality.

We are scoring as many goals now as we did at the beginning of the season, our possession stats are the same if not a little better.

I will say it again. We are losing or drawing games by one goal, and many of them are because a defender has not done a fundamental basic of defending correctly. Not because we have been played off the park because we don't have first team players in the squad. 

Bowyer has us competing in every game, which is incredible really, and testament to how good a manager he is. Yes if we had Williams, and Cullen we would create more chances. But I find it frustrating as a fan that we can still compete but we drop points because of a stupid mistake over some great play from the opposition. 

killerandflash

ross1 said:

How many more times will Pratley get a yellow card for dissent. I thought he was our MOM, but he keeps getting booked for this and with his experience, it should not be happening. Callagher also too many yellows. We have enough injured players, without losing these two for two games when they reach 10 yellow cards

Agreed, it’s unacceptable for such an experienced player to KEEP getting such soft yellows 

Raith_C_Chattonell

IR94 said:

Any idea how long Bonne is out for?

These are times for hamstring injuries but remember to times by 3 for Charlton players.

The time it takes to recover from a hamstring tear can vary widely depending on the site of the injury. A small myofascial tear on the outside of the muscle, may recover in 10 days to two weeks. Mid-muscle belly or musculo-tendinous junction tears (most common) will take approximately four weeks to heal.

killerandflash

ForeverAddickted said:

Louis Mendez confirming that Bonne will miss Swansea with a hammy, no one else already absent will be back in time for it

It’s the second part which is the bigger problem. We have players out for months with minor strains, ridiculous that the likes of Page, Aneke, JFC, Hemed and Lapslie can be out for so long

cabbles

Dazzler21 said:

cabbles said:

Leuth said:

Sarr can't defend and had a liability of a second half? He cut out at least 2 dangerous crosses in the second half and made a brilliantly-timed last man challenge. He isn't unfit - he's played a lot of games in a very short space of time, so when Gallagher lost the ball from his pass he wasn't able to recover to catch up with the Derby players - others should have helped! Phillips saved it anyway. Sarr did a lot of good defending. It is completely mystifying why some people want to make him the scapegoat when he gives more than many others

To be honest mate I think you are a bit blinkered when it comes to him.  Another goal conceded tonight as a result of his poor pass.  It’s not about him giving more than the others when the whole of the back line look poor at the moment.  It’s about him not being good enough defensively at this level.  It will continue to happen time and time again 

It wasn't a defensive action. He played a ball that two players could have come for, neither did and so the Derby player stole in and took it. A bad pass? Yes. It should gave been better, but two of our players didn't come for the pass. That's basics.

His defensive work tonight was decent. He did most things right. Lockyer probably made a similar number of errors but was protected by a defender. 

He seems to always be the common denominator when we concede though.  I need to see it back, but to me it looked like a loose pass, regardless of players coming to meet the pass.  He always seems to be involved in giving it away.  I remember him playing the ball across our goal suicidally up at WBA in the first half that he got away with.  It’s too common.  I just don’t think he’s defensively up to it at this level.  He’s not the only one, but how come we keep coming back to this debate most weeks.  It’s not as if he goes 5/6 games without incident so we can maybe say, these issues are being ironed out.  If that was the case I would wholeheartedly put my hands up and say, fair play and I’m wrong.  I just don’t think he can cut it at this level

Vincenzo

On the plus side, we are further from relegation than Arsenal.

Cheered me up anyway.

MuttleyCAFC

To be fair. we only competed tonight, if we can claim that we did, because they went down to 10.

ForeverAddickted

killerandflash said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Louis Mendez confirming that Bonne will miss Swansea with a hammy, no one else already absent will be back in time for it

It’s the second part which is the bigger problem. We have players out for months with minor strains, ridiculous that the likes of Page, Aneke, JFC, Hemed and Lapslie can be out for so long

Just hope that when we get everyone back fit its everyone at the same time and at the Valley

Can then build it up nicely, accidentally forgetting to release the team sheet @ 2pm

Suddenly the dramatic film music starts up, players can be seen emerging from the tunnel, pyrotechnics / fireworks blast into the sky as the likes of Williams / Cullen jog on to the pitch slow motion style (like a scene from Baywatch)

Aaaand then Page falls over a sponsorship hoarding and injures himself again

clb74

JamesSeed said:

AFKABartram said:

Very disappointing. Not at the races and lacking all over. 

World away from the team that cruised 3-0 past Derby in Oct. 

No criticism here though. 

This squad is decimated and exhausted. 

Stick together people

clb74 said:

B@llocks to the injuries.
For 80 mins against 10 men we put them under no pressure whatsoever 
F@cking b@llocks

Take your pick :-)

The funny thing is we soon raised our game when we got the game back to 2-1

Stig

Greenie Junior said:

At what point do we stop saying the injuries are ‘bad luck’ and start questioning either something at the training ground or the physio team? I’ve never ever known a football team to have such a bad run of injuries. 

Also how Chris Solly gets anywhere near a championship team, let alone starts for one is beyond me, the geezer is shot to pieces.

hoof_it_up_to_benty

Can't defend and we don't have a midfield. Derby player completely unmarked for the second.

I thought we were very poor and ultimately just don't think the players are good enough for this division.

LoOkOuT

Posting without reading.

(Guitar solo)

We've got to hold on ready or not

You live for the fight when it's all that you've got

Wooah
We're half way there
Woah-oh
Livin' on a prayer

Take my hand and we'll make it, I swear
Woah-oh
Livin' on a prayer

sirjohnhumphrey

Of the 18 we had in the squad against Derby in October, 9 were unavailable today. 

Dazzler21

AFKABartram said:

Dazzler21 said:

Think Bowyer is overworking the lads in the fitness sessions as they're tiring in games and he's trying to up their stamina.

He's missing a key thing, they need a recovery before games, not just after. 

Should probably look something like this:

For weeks with only Sat fixtures
Sunday - Rest
Monday - Drills
Tuesday - Fitness & Drills
Wednesday - Fitness & Drills
Thursday - Drills
Friday - Rest
Saturday - Game
For weeks with midweek fixtures
Sunday - Rest
Monday - Drills
Tuesday - Drills
Wednesday - Game
Thursday - Rest
Friday - Drills
Saturday - Game

The excessive nature of too many fitness sessions is really showing. I think there's a likelihood our nutrition isn't great either.

No disrespect Dazzler, but ignoring the fact they will have a number of specifically qualified fitness instructors, you have no idea what regime they are following.

i would pretty much guarantee that non-injured players would have done zero fitness work or drills over the last sat month. They would be doing rest, recovery, shape work  with ball and set plays specifically for the next game. And little else.

Whilst I would expect that to be true, the players and Bowyer have said that they do a lot of fitness sessions compared to what they've been used to. Even if they have instructors is Bowyer truly listening to them and the Physiotherapists? We know he's started to listen more to the latter about recovery times and activities, but what about prevention.

Shape work with the ball and set plays, those are training drills.

I accept I don't know for sure what we're doing, I think it's seemimg obvious to me that most sides in this league are looking far fitter and have more energy over 95 minutes plus.
They're not particularly rotating players either as they're sticking to their best side.

Why aren't they all blowing after 60 minutes like we are ?

Either our players nutrition is wrong or they're being overworked. Or both.

Finally most clubs provide the facilities for their players to work on their fitness in their own time, it's their duty to keep fitness up at athlete levels, the clubs will obviously help them to do so.

Bows fitness sessions are in addition to that. 

My knowledge of what other clubs do is purely from a friend on the fitness staff at Bournemouth. We've had a similar chat recently.

I think we all know the real problem is Roland.

MuttleyCAFC

Good prospects that Doughty and Morgan are, they are not ready. They are getting there but are not ready yet. Would rather they both get there in League One on loan. That is what should be happening.