Where is Solly yes he has had a very bad game or two this season and on the down slope of his career, but is still better than the 4 defenders we had out there yesterday.
You must've been watching a different game to everyone else who could see Matthews played well, again.
Oshilaja should be miles ahead of Solly in the RB pecking order too. I thought he had a good game yesterday and I haven't finished calling out Dazzler for marking him the worst of our players. Honey, you are well cancelled 😉
In fact, I'd be tempted to play Oshilaja at RB in the next game and just let Matthews have a go at running our midfield, he looks about our best footballer so why not
These defenders are so good that is why we conceed a goal and more every game and the opposition cut the defence open every game. Or am I watching another team, oh no it is Charlton.
Feeling very sad after yesterday. Especially after the euphoria of the play-off final and the start of the season. This year reminds me of the last time we were relegated. We were in poor form and I remember thinking surely we can get back on track and put a run of results together... as we all know that didn't happen and we went down like a damp squib. This year seems to be exactly the same and I have no confidence that we will be able to get ourselves out of the bottom three now we are in it. Even if we win at Hull next week (very unlikely!) we need to follow it up with a few more wins. We need to keep our best players fit, play to a system and keep the same team each week. No sodding around resting or rotating players.. they have got all summer to rest!
I went to see Lincoln v Burton yesterday. Cracking game, good atmosphere but not much in the way of quality. We have got all that to look forward to. At least I will be able to walk to a Charlton match for the first time ever when we play Lincoln next year!!
Bowyer looks clueless at present which is gutting as I thought he was going to be special. The squad is so unbalanced and lacks pace. We have no wide midfielders and no one who can dribble with the ball. Gallagher and Leko provided this and are such a big miss. The gap between our midfield and attack is too large and leaves the striker (s) isolated. There is also no real goal threat from our midfield- Pratley, Cullen, Lapslie and Williams do not bring a goal threat which is knowhere near good enough at this level.
You play yourselves into poor form and you play yourselves out of it. Sheffield Wednesday was like being dealt a joker and putting it back in the pack. They were there for the taking but we went for a point. I think it was a monumental error from Bowyer and was a tipping point playing wise and sadly we tipped the wrong way. The loss of Sarr has been massive, but also Lockyer was a harsh blow weakening a defence that wasn't great before.
What you want to get yourself back on track is a team with the same issues. It is better to play these teams away IMO as they have even more pressure. If Bowyer approaches next week in the same way as Sheffield Wednesday, that will be it. But if he plays to punish Hull's frailties we will have some positive momentum to build on and hopefully Sarr back too.
When people look at Sarr's defending they miss what he brings to the team in other aspects. With a midfield that lacks offensive creativity and threat, his balls and general play are so important to us. We have to look at Aneke's attributes too and surely it is worth a gamble to give him a chance given our situation.
BTW, whilst Williams wasn't greatly effective yesterday, I think with a bit more support offensively he would have been more so. You could see he was doing what was needed but you can't expect him to do it on his own.
@ValleyGary made a good point on (i think) the match thread yesterday.
When your team is shit and you don't really seem to know your best formation, go with a basic 442, that way it's fairly straightforward that everyone will know their role and position. Currently we don't seem to have a clue.
And as @cs1986 says above our midfield offers almost no goalscoring threat, so if that's the case then you really need to play 2 strikers, especially in home games.
Given that Hull is now a must win game, we absolutely need to play 2 up front and go for it.
But the two up front need service. Drastic but you could stick Aneke in there and play long balls to a three or four. Just one of a few options that can bridge the skills gap in the short term.
Whatever happens, Bowyer needs to sit down with his team and work out a way of winning games. Damage limitation was understandable with all the injuries but won't work now.
“ we go again “ ” we need the fans to come down and back us ” we knew it was going to be rough but losing to these teams is painful looks like no desire any more.
What a waste of time it all is. We were done for in the transfer window and thats when it became clear that this bunch are up there with the Spivs, Roland and Sunley as rubbish owners. Was Mouthall there today?
Ridiculous comment to be making, even considering the poor form we're in.
Ridiculous perhaps, but could well be true! Probably the most avoidable relegation ever experienced. Only fools would go out and buy something they can not afford to run, thrashing their acquisition within days of taking it on. Seems quite a ridiculous thing to do, does it not?
So would have been better to have kept Roland in January then?
I wonder what our business would have looked like had that happened
We signed 3 loans last minute, which is exactly the sort of business we did under Roland. This all 'Messiah Matt' shite is fucking tiresome, ESI aren't in credit.
I actually think we would have been better in that window with Roland - Gallen and Bowyer might have got better loans in . Southall loves himself but he’s a complete joker
We never seem to start a game on the front foot,every game home or away,the opposition always for the first 10 minutes or so pass the ball around among themselves,without us getting anywhere near it,then we are looking at breakaways to try and score.Then the usual donation of an early goal and there you go backs to the wall again.I know it is asking a lot of Taylor to keep chasing long balls,but we do not have the quality of defender to consistently play out from the back,and so long balls are the only way to cut out these errors.Still hope,Nabby and Lockyear back next week will give us more solidity,but agree that Aneke should figure some where.
We never seem to start a game on the front foot,every game home or away,the opposition always for the first 10 minutes or so pass the ball around among themselves,without us getting anywhere near it,then we are looking at breakaways to try and score.Then the usual donation of an early goal and there you go backs to the wall again.I know it is asking a lot of Taylor to keep chasing long balls,but we do not have the quality of defender to consistently play out from the back,and so long balls are the only way to cut out these errors.Still hope,Nabby and Lockyear back next week will give us more solidity,but agree that Aneke should figure some where.
The problem with Aneke is that he needs oxygen after running up and down the pitch a couple of times let alone being made of glass too.
I can't come down on one side or the other on ESI until I know for sure. Having said that, there is absolutely no evidence to date that they will be an improvement over Roland. In fact, it is very worrying that they haven't bought all of the club yet.
What re-assures me strangely enough is how useless Southall has been. He is clearly the figure head but not the money man. He has gone about things in totally the wrong way, and looks like an ego out of his depth, but that doesn't mean the money isn't there so I still have some hope. Maybe he will learn enough from this. Actions speak louder than words, especially when those words stink of bullshit.
When I hear and read promises in the programme. When I see all the nonsense around Bowyer's contract. When I read about a five year plan. It is from somebody who isn't good at his job trying to be so. Almost like trying to talk the talk. BTW, football should be about one year plans, trying to be better in all aspects every year. I was worried when I heard of a five year plan. It is bollocks, which seems to me the best way to summarise Southall's start. Hopefully he will improve but forget about trying to be liked and do your job properly FFS!
“ we go again “ ” we need the fans to come down and back us ” we knew it was going to be rough but losing to these teams is painful looks like no desire any more.
I'm so bored of being told that the team needs us, or to get behind the boys. What does he think we do every fucking week? How about putting two up front or telling Green to actually do some running. Slept on it and I'm still fuming.
I listened to the commentary and watched the 2 mins highlight so I'm no authority on the game but you can't just blame the defenders for the loss other players missed goal scoring chances which if a couple had been taken would have negated the defensive lapse.
just read bowyers comments - we started well and were on top the gifted them a goal or words to that affect - that is totally incorrect. We wee playing a formation that wasn't working, we couldn't get near them when they had it and were shut down instantly when we had it. Mistakes will eventually be forced if that goes on. So, the reality is we set up wrong - again - and didn't change it quickly enough.
If we still had bauer, aribo, belik, gallagher and leko, we wouldn't be in this mess - we have gone backwards.
The jan window was piss poor and we needed it to be very good
Green has no bollocks but he can beat a man on the wing so if we are going to play him, get him out on the wing
Please play Bonne up top with Taylor.Bonne has energy and bollox and knows where the net is, green doesn't
lockyer and sarr back, bonne up top with taylor and a sensible midfield of williams, pratley, cullen and doughty with no non footballing duds in it and we still have half a chance - i would recommend bowyer sits in the stands for a few weeks so he can actually see what is going on and takes the defensive handbreak right off - go down fighting and we will accept it
Sheffield Wednesday, Huddersfield and Middlesbrough.
3 games, 3 defeats, 0 goals scored.
Simply pathetic.
All lies with Bowyer too. He's setting us up far too negatively and making reactive changes when it's far too late. Second half was better but, let's be honest, they were still carving us open every time they had the ball.
It this, and it's been this for quite some time. Even at the start of the season we were setting up to hit teams on the counter, but we were tight at the back. Teams have figured out that a simple 1-2 on one of the flanks results in the chance to walk into the box. Whatever formation we play, 4-1-4-1, 5-3-2, or 4-4-2 diamond, you can just overload against us on the flanks and get a free pass. We had the same problem last year to a lesser extent, and we don't seem to have figured out how to deal with it.
Beyond that, we just play it long and hope it falls for an attacker with pace. Cullen at times tried to play through midfield and Pratley was ok at times on the ball but he and Lapslie aren't good players on the ball at this level.
Yes we've had injury problems, but at no point have Bowyer and Jackson been able to set us up to be competitive and get points on a regular basis. It's been two steps back, one forward, one back.
We look out of our depth in every aspect. We seem to think that hard work will get us out of it. And unto itself, it won't. We need calm and creativity and possession. We currently have two players, Williams who seems half fit and Cullen who seems off the pace at times, capable of that.
I just don't see how we change our approach and patterns of player and improve our focus at this point. We had a week to learn from Hudds. We didn't.
Absolutely this. I don't have any coaching badges but even I can see that many teams coming to the Valley have our diamond system well scouted and sussed, and our full backs get rinsed on a regular basis with insufficient help or support around them due to the narrowness of the formation. The determination to stick to a formation game after game hasn't reached Robinson levels of stubborness, but if every first half is basically conceded to the opposition before Bowyer changes formation it's just as damaging to our prospects.
Setting up like an away team when playing at hone is something I'm not happy with either. We look like a team that's scared to death of losing, rather than busting a gut to win. Our only effective attacks first half were quick breaks. Home fans don't come to see their team defend (badly), concede possession and hope to grab a goal on the break. That just gets you booed off at half time when you go in 1-0 down after letting in a ridiculously weak goal.
Bowyer looks clueless at present which is gutting as I thought he was going to be special. The squad is so unbalanced and lacks pace. We have no wide midfielders and no one who can dribble with the ball. Gallagher and Leko provided this and are such a big miss. The gap between our midfield and attack is too large and leaves the striker (s) isolated. There is also no real goal threat from our midfield- Pratley, Cullen, Lapslie and Williams do not bring a goal threat which is knowhere near good enough at this level.
Excellent post.......one which I virtually wrote on the match thread at 2.30pm once I was inside the ground & saw the team news and again reiterated upthread last night.
We just dont have goals in the team. Only the front 2 (Taylor & Bonne) have scored regularly this season & they cant currently score as they arent getting the service. 1 goal in 4 games & that goal (away at Forest) came courtesy of a sublime cross from Sarr, who has since been injured. The midfield neither runs attacking wise with the ball nor does it supply any crosses or through balls.
Too depressed to write anything until now. Mods would have had to censor my thoughts at six o’clock last night. Having slept on it, I’m afraid yesterday just confirmed the fears that have been gathering steam since Christmas. We have a squad that is league 1 standard with a couple of exceptions. We are aware of the reasons for that so there is no point in lamenting them further. We have a rookie manager learning on the job who is still in credit as far as I’m concerned but who’s tactical uncertainty and defensive mindset are now being shown up. I’m sorry for him because he’s been sent in to play Djokovic with a bag full of table tennis bats. As for our ownership past and present just don’t get me started. So all our chickens have come home to roost and I fear that the fat lady has picked up the mic and is clearing her throat. As to the game itself, the first half was as depressed as I’ve felt. I’m long enough in the tooth to recognise a relegation team when I see one and we reek of it. We are simply not good enough and a few of the lads now know that and they are playing with a combination of fear and a desire to be anywhere but here. Add in the fact that Bowyer is the tTinkerman’s tinkerman at the moment and you have a recipe for capitulation. The fact that we didn’t capitulate and at least had a go in a heads down agricultural sort of way in the second half is, I suspect, testament to a Bowyer roasting that nearly lifted the roof off the west stand. The most unnecessary of relegations is closing in and it will be an act of gross neglect as far as I’m concerned given the hope of a brave new world that abounded after Wembley. What a waste. And out with a whimper too I’ll wager.
All put in perspective as I learned just before the match that the splendid old chap who sits next to me and has missed the last few games is sadly in his final days. Bless you mate, I’ve enjoyed your company.
Bowyer looks clueless at present which is gutting as I thought he was going to be special. The squad is so unbalanced and lacks pace. We have no wide midfielders and no one who can dribble with the ball. Gallagher and Leko provided this and are such a big miss. The gap between our midfield and attack is too large and leaves the striker (s) isolated. There is also no real goal threat from our midfield- Pratley, Cullen, Lapslie and Williams do not bring a goal threat which is knowhere near good enough at this level.
Excellent post.......one which I virtually wrote on the match thread at 2.30pm once I was inside the ground & saw the team news and again reiterated upthread last night.
We just dont have goals in the team. Only the front 2 (Taylor & Bonne) have scored regularly this season & they cant currently score as they arent getting the service. 1 goal in 4 games & that goal (away at Forest) came courtesy of a sublime cross from Sarr, who has since been injured. The midfield neither runs attacking wise with the ball nor does it supply any crosses or through balls.
Sarr, Gallagher and Leko have the most assists this season, which explains why we are where we are.
just read bowyers comments - we started well and were on top the gifted them a goal or words to that affect - that is totally incorrect. We wee playing a formation that wasn't working, we couldn't get near them when they had it and were shut down instantly when we had it. Mistakes will eventually be forced if that goes on. So, the reality is we set up wrong - again - and didn't change it quickly enough.
If we still had bauer, aribo, belik, gallagher and leko, we wouldn't be in this mess - we have gone backwards.
The jan window was piss poor and we needed it to be very good
Green has no bollocks but he can beat a man on the wing so if we are going to play him, get him out on the wing
Please play Bonne up top with Taylor.Bonne has energy and bollox and knows where the net is, green doesn't
lockyer and sarr back, bonne up top with taylor and a sensible midfield of williams, pratley, cullen and doughty with no non footballing duds in it and we still have half a chance - i would recommend bowyer sits in the stands for a few weeks so he can actually see what is going on and takes the defensive handbreak right off - go down fighting and we will accept it
btw - i blame rd and now esi for all of this, not bowyer although i do think he needs to take some blame for not bringing in a centre half in january, for not being more forceful about needing quality, proven reinforcements in january - due to his belief possibly that all would be okay once the injured returned and for now not making the most out of what he currently has.
In fact, I'd be tempted to play Oshilaja at RB in the next game and just let Matthews have a go at running our midfield, he looks about our best footballer so why not
Yeah, I suggested that that might be worth trying in the preview thread, but tbh it’s possible he’s one of those players only comfortable playing one position.
I agree Oshilaja played well yesterday, despite the one very stray pass.
Nothing much to add to what has been posted before, except to say that earlier in the season we might have grabbed an undeserved draw, or even a win from that game if Taylor, Pratley and Bonne hadn’t missed good chances, or if the Taylor penalty had been given (Quest thought Taylor was clipped). Also, when our wide players got the ball their full backs closed them down immediately, and got very tight, and a second player bore down on them. When their wide players got the ball our full backs were often about four or five yards away and if they closed down at all they rarely got closer than about five feet. That’s pretty basic stuff. Happy to have given @cantersaddick a lift to and from the game, but won’t do so again without his girlfriend being in attendance. Sorry to have unwittingly played a part in our defeat yesterday ☹️
A few random, and probably disjointed, thoughts ...
We haven't just dropped into a relegation dogfight, we didn't fall into it after Christmas, it didn't even start in the middle of our horrific injury crisis; Andrew Madley blowing his whistle at approximately 4:54pm on Sunday 26th May 2019 signalled the beginning of our relegation scrap.
At the start of the season most people said they'd be happy with finishing 21st; if you'd said that we wouldn't even drop into the bottom three until March the majority would have hailed it a bloody miracle.
You can blame Lord Bowyer for our current predicament if you wish, team selections and tactics haven't been great but the players need to shoulder a large portion too. A manager can do all he wants during the week but if a player's brain turns to mush once he's on the pitch and can't even play a simple ten-yard pass without it missing the target by three yards then there's not much he can do.
We're in the middle of a vicious circle at the moment: the players' confidence is low because of the bad run of results: low confidence is leading to poor on-field decisions and hence horrible, goal-conceding mistakes; these mistakes result in more defeats; and so we go round and round and round in ever decreasing circles. We need something, anything, to kick-start the season and get the players up again. It doesn't matter if it's a scruffy last-minute deflection of someone's arse to gain a point or three, a worldy of a save or goal-line clearance to protect points, something to give the players a lift. It's almost tempting to say that the Spanners game is nailed on for us to win!
With regards to yesterday specifically ... it was painful. First half was shocking, second was better without being too damaging. The frustrating thing was you could see how nervous the Boro defence was in the second half; any sort of composure from our players and they would have cracked, at which point I'd have expected us to win the game and everyone would be much happier today.
Taylor's yellow card ... never. I called it on the match thread, from my vantage point (back row of top shelf of Cupboard End, near the NE quadrant) it looked like Lyle had his feet swept out from under him.
How many times did Pratters and one other get in each other's way in the penalty area? Does no-one call for the ball these days? Another sign of poor confidence?
Matthews probably our best player yesterday ... the sooner BeckenSarr is back the better, we'll have a bit more composure on the ball at the back.
In fact, I'd be tempted to play Oshilaja at RB in the next game and just let Matthews have a go at running our midfield, he looks about our best footballer so why not
Said this a few weeks ago. Or oshi front of matthews as he can get up and downa nd cross the ball
Comments
I went to see Lincoln v Burton yesterday. Cracking game, good atmosphere but not much in the way of quality. We have got all that to look forward to. At least I will be able to walk to a Charlton match for the first time ever when we play Lincoln next year!!
What you want to get yourself back on track is a team with the same issues. It is better to play these teams away IMO as they have even more pressure. If Bowyer approaches next week in the same way as Sheffield Wednesday, that will be it. But if he plays to punish Hull's frailties we will have some positive momentum to build on and hopefully Sarr back too.
When people look at Sarr's defending they miss what he brings to the team in other aspects. With a midfield that lacks offensive creativity and threat, his balls and general play are so important to us. We have to look at Aneke's attributes too and surely it is worth a gamble to give him a chance given our situation.
BTW, whilst Williams wasn't greatly effective yesterday, I think with a bit more support offensively he would have been more so. You could see he was doing what was needed but you can't expect him to do it on his own.
When your team is shit and you don't really seem to know your best formation, go with a basic 442, that way it's fairly straightforward that everyone will know their role and position. Currently we don't seem to have a clue.
And as @cs1986 says above our midfield offers almost no goalscoring threat, so if that's the case then you really need to play 2 strikers, especially in home games.
Given that Hull is now a must win game, we absolutely need to play 2 up front and go for it.
Whatever happens, Bowyer needs to sit down with his team and work out a way of winning games. Damage limitation was understandable with all the injuries but won't work now.
” we need the fans to come down and back us ”
we knew it was going to be rough but losing to these teams is painful looks like no desire any more.
What re-assures me strangely enough is how useless Southall has been. He is clearly the figure head but not the money man. He has gone about things in totally the wrong way, and looks like an ego out of his depth, but that doesn't mean the money isn't there so I still have some hope. Maybe he will learn enough from this. Actions speak louder than words, especially when those words stink of bullshit.
When I hear and read promises in the programme. When I see all the nonsense around Bowyer's contract. When I read about a five year plan. It is from somebody who isn't good at his job trying to be so. Almost like trying to talk the talk. BTW, football should be about one year plans, trying to be better in all aspects every year. I was worried when I heard of a five year plan. It is bollocks, which seems to me the best way to summarise Southall's start. Hopefully he will improve but forget about trying to be liked and do your job properly FFS!
If we still had bauer, aribo, belik, gallagher and leko, we wouldn't be in this mess - we have gone backwards.
The jan window was piss poor and we needed it to be very good
Green has no bollocks but he can beat a man on the wing so if we are going to play him, get him out on the wing
Please play Bonne up top with Taylor.Bonne has energy and bollox and knows where the net is, green doesn't
lockyer and sarr back, bonne up top with taylor and a sensible midfield of williams, pratley, cullen and doughty with no non footballing duds in it and we still have half a chance - i would recommend bowyer sits in the stands for a few weeks so he can actually see what is going on and takes the defensive handbreak right off - go down fighting and we will accept it
We just dont have goals in the team. Only the front 2 (Taylor & Bonne) have scored regularly this season & they cant currently score as they arent getting the service. 1 goal in 4 games & that goal (away at Forest) came courtesy of a sublime cross from Sarr, who has since been injured. The midfield neither runs attacking wise with the ball nor does it supply any crosses or through balls.
Also, when our wide players got the ball their full backs closed them down immediately, and got very tight, and a second player bore down on them. When their wide players got the ball our full backs were often about four or five yards away and if they closed down at all they rarely got closer than about five feet. That’s pretty basic stuff.
Happy to have given @cantersaddick a lift to and from the game, but won’t do so again without his girlfriend being in attendance. Sorry to have unwittingly played a part in our defeat yesterday ☹️
We haven't just dropped into a relegation dogfight, we didn't fall into it after Christmas, it didn't even start in the middle of our horrific injury crisis; Andrew Madley blowing his whistle at approximately 4:54pm on Sunday 26th May 2019 signalled the beginning of our relegation scrap.
At the start of the season most people said they'd be happy with finishing 21st; if you'd said that we wouldn't even drop into the bottom three until March the majority would have hailed it a bloody miracle.
You can blame Lord Bowyer for our current predicament if you wish, team selections and tactics haven't been great but the players need to shoulder a large portion too. A manager can do all he wants during the week but if a player's brain turns to mush once he's on the pitch and can't even play a simple ten-yard pass without it missing the target by three yards then there's not much he can do.
We're in the middle of a vicious circle at the moment: the players' confidence is low because of the bad run of results: low confidence is leading to poor on-field decisions and hence horrible, goal-conceding mistakes; these mistakes result in more defeats; and so we go round and round and round in ever decreasing circles. We need something, anything, to kick-start the season and get the players up again. It doesn't matter if it's a scruffy last-minute deflection of someone's arse to gain a point or three, a worldy of a save or goal-line clearance to protect points, something to give the players a lift. It's almost tempting to say that the Spanners game is nailed on for us to win!
With regards to yesterday specifically ... it was painful. First half was shocking, second was better without being too damaging. The frustrating thing was you could see how nervous the Boro defence was in the second half; any sort of composure from our players and they would have cracked, at which point I'd have expected us to win the game and everyone would be much happier today.
Taylor's yellow card ... never. I called it on the match thread, from my vantage point (back row of top shelf of Cupboard End, near the NE quadrant) it looked like Lyle had his feet swept out from under him.
How many times did Pratters and one other get in each other's way in the penalty area? Does no-one call for the ball these days? Another sign of poor confidence?
Matthews probably our best player yesterday ... the sooner BeckenSarr is back the better, we'll have a bit more composure on the ball at the back.
Er ... that'll do for now.