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The mathematics of relegation

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    50 Points minimum to stay up 
    51 would better 👍
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    1968CAFC said:
    Who would have honestly thought that the SCUM
    would be beaten by Middlesbrough?
    now we have to get our Act  together Mr Bowyer 👍
    It changes absolutely nothing for us really, 4 points or 2 wins will see us good. 
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    Confirmation that, after Hull City's defeat at Bristol, R = 9 with Barnsley as the critical team and that R' =12 with Hull City as the critical team.
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    1968CAFC said:
    50 Points minimum to stay up 
    51 would better 👍
    Yep, I reckon beating Birmingham or Wigan will keep us up though
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    Too early to suggest 49 is safe, Wigan/Barnsley will be a key game as if Wigan beat QPR, Barnsley and Hull (which isn't impossible) they will have an effective 47 before they play us. And their final game is against Fulham, who by that stage may be saving themselves for the playoffs

    Luton still have to play Huddersfield and Hull, both winnable, have QPR which isn't that bad a fixture and finish against Blackburn who may be on the beach. Not impossible to see them reach 50
    I can see Wigan beating Barnsley and Hull to effectively leave them on 47, we really need 4 points from the next 2 games minimum to give us 50 before we play them. Then a draw against Wigan would mean they would have to beat Fulham to go above us (not impossible though), so even 51 wouldn't be enough then

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    I make it R 9 R' 11
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    1968CAFC said:
    50 Points minimum to stay up 
    51 would better 👍
    Still think we’ll need less. 2 of Wigan, Luton, Barnsley or Hull getting to 50, no chance. In fact almost impossible due to the fact they have games against each other. 
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    Too early to suggest 49 is safe, Wigan/Barnsley will be a key game as if Wigan beat QPR, Barnsley and Hull (which isn't impossible) they will have an effective 47 before they play us. And their final game is against Fulham, who by that stage may be saving themselves for the playoffs

    Luton still have to play Huddersfield and Hull, both winnable, have QPR which isn't that bad a fixture and finish against Blackburn who may be on the beach. Not impossible to see them reach 50
    I can see Wigan beating Barnsley and Hull to effectively leave them on 47, we really need 4 points from the next 2 games minimum to give us 50 before we play them. Then a draw against Wigan would mean they would have to beat Fulham to go above us (not impossible though), so even 51 wouldn't be enough then

    That scenario plays out another defeat for Hull though, who look shocking. We probably need 49 but I’d be astounded if 48 didn’t keep us up. 
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    I make it R 9 R' 11
    Hull City have 45 points from 42 games.  Their theoretical maximum total is 45 + 12 (four wins) = 57 points.

    Therefore, we currently need 58 points to be mathematically certain of safety ... that's 12 more than the 46 that we currently have ... hence, R'=12.
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    Dave Rudd said:
    I make it R 9 R' 11
    Hull City have 45 points from 42 games.  Their theoretical maximum total is 45 + 12 (four wins) = 57 points.

    Therefore, we currently need 58 points to be mathematically certain of safety ... that's 12 more than the 46 that we currently have ... hence, R'=12.
    So we’re fucked then?
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    edited July 2020
    iainment said:
    Dave Rudd said:
    I make it R 9 R' 11
    Hull City have 45 points from 42 games.  Their theoretical maximum total is 45 + 12 (four wins) = 57 points.

    Therefore, we currently need 58 points to be mathematically certain of safety ... that's 12 more than the 46 that we currently have ... hence, R'=12.
    So we’re fucked then?
    Have a look at their fixtures. Do you think that they will win all four?

    Or indeed any?
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    Redrobo said:
    iainment said:
    Dave Rudd said:
    I make it R 9 R' 11
    Hull City have 45 points from 42 games.  Their theoretical maximum total is 45 + 12 (four wins) = 57 points.

    Therefore, we currently need 58 points to be mathematically certain of safety ... that's 12 more than the 46 that we currently have ... hence, R'=12.
    So we’re fucked then?
    Have a look at their fixtures. Do you think that they will win all four?

    Or indeed any?
    They play Millwall next, and after today's result...
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    Millwall are going to rollover. Your closest business competitor can take a huge hit if you don’t win. So guess what they will do. 
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    ct_addick said:
    Millwall are going to rollover. Your closest business competitor can take a huge hit if you don’t win. So guess what they will do. 
    We're not business competitors... We don't battle for the same fan base.
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    Dazzler21 said:
    ct_addick said:
    Millwall are going to rollover. Your closest business competitor can take a huge hit if you don’t win. So guess what they will do. 
    We're not business competitors... We don't battle for the same fan base.
    And we gift them points. What other team starts with six points.
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    Redrobo said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    ct_addick said:
    Millwall are going to rollover. Your closest business competitor can take a huge hit if you don’t win. So guess what they will do. 
    We're not business competitors... We don't battle for the same fan base.
    And we gift them points. What other team starts with six points.
    Us against Leeds 🙂
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    Dave Rudd said:
    I make it R 9 R' 11
    Hull City have 45 points from 42 games.  Their theoretical maximum total is 45 + 12 (four wins) = 57 points.

    Therefore, we currently need 58 points to be mathematically certain of safety ... that's 12 more than the 46 that we currently have ... hence, R'=12.

    I was factoring in our superior goal difference!

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    Dave Rudd said:
    I make it R 9 R' 11
    Hull City have 45 points from 42 games.  Their theoretical maximum total is 45 + 12 (four wins) = 57 points.

    Therefore, we currently need 58 points to be mathematically certain of safety ... that's 12 more than the 46 that we currently have ... hence, R'=12.

    I was factoring in our superior goal difference!

    Which is where you went wrong.

     :) 
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    R now 11 after the Huddersfield result. Assuming Wigan get away with it they are the key team as their maximum points total is 56 following their loss to Luton.

    Come 5pm tomorrow that may have changed.
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    Surely because Luton’s maximum points total is 53 while Barnsley’s is still 54, the R number would remain at 9.
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    Surely because Luton’s maximum points total is 53 while Barnsley’s is still 54, the R number would remain at 9.
    If Wigan get the points deduction yes but if not then Huddersfield are the team with the lowest potential maximum (56) so R is 11. 
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    LenGlover said:
    Surely because Luton’s maximum points total is 53 while Barnsley’s is still 54, the R number would remain at 9.
    If Wigan get the points deduction yes but if not then Huddersfield are the team with the lowest potential maximum (56) so R is 11. 

    That's R', R is still 9.
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    edited July 2020
    LenGlover said:
    Surely because Luton’s maximum points total is 53 while Barnsley’s is still 54, the R number would remain at 9.
    If Wigan get the points deduction yes but if not then Huddersfield are the team with the lowest potential maximum (56) so R is 11. 
    But Hull with four games to play could get to 57 so that would put the R (R’) at 12.

    I’ll wait for the authority @Dave Rudd but I don’t believe the result tonight had any effect on R or R’ (with or without Wigan points deduction). R should still be 9 and R’ should still be 12.


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    R = 9 from the remaining games or in total from the mini season? Forgive my maths.
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    edited July 2020
    LenGlover said:
    Surely because Luton’s maximum points total is 53 while Barnsley’s is still 54, the R number would remain at 9.
    If Wigan get the points deduction yes but if not then Huddersfield are the team with the lowest potential maximum (56) so R is 11. 
    But Hull with four games to play could get to 57 so that would put the R (R’) at 12.

    I’ll wait for the authority @Dave Rudd but I don’t believe the result tonight had any effect on R or R’ (with or without Wigan points deduction). R should still be 9 and R’ should still be 12.


    but Hull are now not the key team in either calculation as they (57) can now get more than  Huddersfield (56), Barnsley (54), Luton (53) and a points deducted Wigan (53)
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    Gillis said:
    To summarise the last few posts, and for the sake of clarity for people just dipping into the thread to check the latest number:

    R = 9 with Barnsley as the critical team.

    R' = 11 with Huddersfield as the critical team.
    Thanks but if that answers my question, you need to explain my question...
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    Gillis said:
    To summarise the last few posts, and for the sake of clarity for people just dipping into the thread to check the latest number:

    R = 9 with Barnsley as the critical team.

    R' = 11 with Huddersfield as the critical team.
    Thanks but if that answers my question, you need to explain my question...
    Sorry, @KiwiValley , it wasn't intended as an answer to your question.

    It's 9 points from the remaining games, not the mini season.

    R is the number of points we need, as of now, from the remaining games to be mathematically certain of staying up if Wigan's 12 point deduction is applied.

    R' is the number of points we need, as of now, from the remaining games to be mathematically certain of staying up if Wigan's points deduction isn't applied.

    Both numbers will reduce as we gain points, but also as other teams drop points, so the actual total that we need from the remaining games to stay up will, in reality, be lower than R.
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    If R is greater than 2 then we need to win a fcking game, starting today, to not have to rely upon the teams below us losing all their remaining games 
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