We appear to pick up some players who have worldly moments at other clubs only for them to underperform for us. I actually put that more down to coaching and management than the players themselves. If you buy players who are good or comfortable in a position and then choose to ask them to play in a range of positions alien to them what results do we expect. There aren’t many Steve Gritt type players out there nowadays… Hope he stays and has us purring!
There is a player in Gilbey: POTY 2 seasons running at MKD, Curbs rates him, we've seen it ourselves at times. Yet his form fell off a cliff after Christmas.
What's happened then? Many of us are quick to criticise rightly or wrongly, but most are only looking at the symptoms (his poor form during the 2nd half of the season). To get the answer, we first need to know the cause.
Also I don't understand the leaks/rumours that Gilbey has been told he can leave. On what basis? Watching last season's match footage? The players are not returned yet and the new manager has not even seen Gilbey in training, likely not even had the chance to sit down and chat with him.
Thought it would be worth moving the Gilbey discussion into here and out of the Garner thread.
masicat has heard Gilbey and Purrington have been told they can leave.
For me he’s been disappointing and I can’t see him fitting a possession style. He’s not a playmaker or ball winner, if he ends up staying he needs to be scoring goals to get a regular place in the team. Not convinced he’ll ever get to that level despite various circumstances not helping him in the last two years.
Just a quick heads up on Purrington. I had it on pretty good authority yesterday that both Purrington and Gilbey had been told they can leave. Source is normally reliable which is why I posted the Purrington rumour. Was a bit more concerned about the Gilbey rumour as it didn’t make much sense at this stage. Anyway, that’s what I was told. Time will tell.
Excellent news if true - if Garner’s gone through those games from last season, it’s quite clear he adds very little - 2 or 3 goals in what 35-40 games.
Hasn’t worked for him. Move him on.
If we could do the same with DJ I’d say things are looking up.
We appear to pick up some players who have worldly moments at other clubs only for them to underperform for us. I actually put that more down to coaching and management than the players themselves. If you buy players who are good or comfortable in a position and then choose to ask them to play in a range of positions alien to them what results do we expect. There aren’t many Steve Gritt type players out there nowadays… Hope he stays and has us purring!
This is the problem and has been since the January we were in the championship. Since then the indisputable success, in the position and system we signed them for, you can probably count on 1 hand? In the 5 windows previously you could count the failers on one hand.
My philosophy on the squad cap would be 2 players for ever position (in both a 433 and a 352) + Aneke and Inniss. That would mean you need at least one U21. Every single one of them needs to either be good enough to be first choice or can do a job in 2 or 3 positions. Gilbey (and plenty of others) doesn't. He is one I would look to move on now.
I was a fan under Adkins, even this season, and under caretaker Jackson as well.
Again, transparent conversation with Alex and he is making absolutely no excuses, and in fact was overly apologetic, which made me feel a bit uncomfortable, as he is only one from a squad which underachieved collectively, but if you heard on his overall situation this year (and again, he did not want that to come across an excuse) a lot more on here would be able to put stuff into perspective. Hopefully the form he had at MK will be with us next season and we will benefit from it. He came across very articulately with high emotional intelligence too.
Posted over a month ago and backs up my feelings and conversations with Gilbey. Think he deserves a pre-season without issues that he knows exactly what his role is and to prove he is capable because I genuinely believe he is. Having players like Fraser and Forster-Cawley with him and wide players that doesn’t mean he is forced to fill that space will do him good.
The other thing they might be bearing in mind is that Gilbey has one year left on his deal and will probably be a back up player this year. Given that there's a lot of work to do on the first team they might be looking to cash in on him now for however small an amount that might be rather than letting him go for free next summer.
Harsh on Gilbey. Had Covid last season & he admitted it took him a while to get back to full fitness.....and I think he suffers from asthma too which can't have helped.
Fine if you want to move him on, but before you go make sure you have a BETTER replacement coming in as this has been our failings in the recent past. Replacing mediocrity with dross gets you to 13th in the League.
The man runs around a lot and is quite good running with the ball. Has an inconsistent first touch and can’t reliably pass a ball 5 yards sideways.
If we’re going to retain a high percentage of possession next season, as seems to be Garner’s preferred style, then we can’t have midfielders who give the ball away every second time they get it.
As it stands, midfield might be the one area we have the first choice players sorted in Dobson, JFC, and Fraser. Morgan is a more suitable backup than Gilbey in this brave new world of ours because passing is probably his best asset.
Gilbey’s not the worst player we’ve ever had but has he shown any real signs of being the standard we need? He wouldn’t even have made the bench at Wembley 3 years ago. Really, there’s almost none of this lot that I would be particularly bothered about leaving but obviously a key part of the decision is how good their replacements will be.
Harsh on Gilbey. Had Covid last season & he admitted it took him a while to get back to full fitness.....and I think he suffers from asthma too which can't have helped.
Fine if you want to move him on, but before you go make sure you have a BETTER replacement coming in as this has been our failings in the recent past. Replacing mediocrity with dross gets you to 13th in the League.
Yup... we sell a player first... Every Agent we try to approach will be telling the club / players that we're after that we suddenly have double the amount of money we truly have, and that we're trying to under value the person they represent.
Harsh on Gilbey. Had Covid last season & he admitted it took him a while to get back to full fitness.....and I think he suffers from asthma too which can't have helped.
Fine if you want to move him on, but before you go make sure you have a BETTER replacement coming in as this has been our failings in the recent past. Replacing mediocrity with dross gets you to 13th in the League.
These are fair points, but for me his stamina and engine for want of a better term look good. I would say his fitness and ability to keep going over 90 mins isn’t a problem, it’s pretty much everything else with his game. Doesn’t score, doesn’t create. The runs look good but seldom result in anything and I think we’d struggle to push on if we persevered with him.
completely agree re: the better replacement but that’s pretty much true all over the squad at the moment. There’s not enough quality in anyone one position
There's signs of a good player in there but I don't think Jackson was the right coach to get it out of him, certainly it was not a formation that suited him.
Whether Garner is the coach and will play the right formation remains to be seen.
Harsh on Gilbey. Had Covid last season & he admitted it took him a while to get back to full fitness.....and I think he suffers from asthma too which can't have helped.
Fine if you want to move him on, but before you go make sure you have a BETTER replacement coming in as this has been our failings in the recent past. Replacing mediocrity with dross gets you to 13th in the League.
These are fair points, but for me his stamina and engine for want of a better term look good. I would say his fitness and ability to keep going over 90 mins isn’t a problem, it’s pretty much everything else with his game. Doesn’t score, doesn’t create. The runs look good but seldom result in anything and I think we’d struggle to push on if we persevered with him.
completely agree re: the better replacement but that’s pretty much true all over the squad at the moment. There’s not enough quality in anyone one position
Certainly agree with this, and have sympathies with SELR’s earlier point, about we how it often feels like we are disappointed with the team as whole performance all year, but then it comes to this point and there’s a big enough section of fans who don’t seem to want individual players to leave.
However that being said, I just personally find it hard to judge our midfielder players on whole as think none of them were ever going to look good, or do well, in Jackson’s system at least and the style of play he demanded.
There is a player in Gilbey: POTY 2 seasons running at MKD, Curbs rates him, we've seen it ourselves at times. Yet his form fell off a cliff after Christmas.
What's happened then? Many of us are quick to criticise rightly or wrongly, but most are only looking at the symptoms (his poor form during the 2nd half of the season). To get the answer, we first need to know the cause.
Also I don't understand the leaks/rumours that Gilbey has been told he can leave. On what basis? Watching last season's match footage? The players are not returned yet and the new manager has not even seen Gilbey in training, likely not even had the chance to sit down and chat with him.
Maybe, who knows, maybe it’s Gilbey who has asked to leave and we have agreed depending on certain conditions ie a fee of at least 100k for example. I don’t know, just surmising, but agree it’s odd if we have to,d him he is free to leave without Garner having assessed his ability first.
The man runs around a lot and is quite good running with the ball. Has an inconsistent first touch and can’t reliably pass a ball 5 yards sideways.
If we’re going to retain a high percentage of possession next season, as high seems to be Garner’s preferred style, then we can’t have midfielders who give the ball away every second time they get it.
As it stands, midfield might be the one area we have the first choice players sorted in Dobson, JFC, and Fraser. Morgan is a more suitable backup than Gilbey in this brave new world of ours because.
Gilbey’s not the worst player we’ve ever had but has he shown any real signs of being the standard we need? He wouldn’t even have made the bench at Wembley 3 years ago. Really, there’s almost none of this lot that I would be particularly bothered about leaving but obviously a key part of the decision is how good their replacements will be.
I have been one of the people defending him over the season, because I can see a player there. But as the season drew to a conclusion, I increasingly grew tired of him. The bit in bold is the main reason why.
He gets the ball, makes an excellent 10 yard run passed his marker to open up the game, and hardly ever finds his target.
We have not seen the best of Fraser yet, but when you watch him, every pass has the right weight and is always just infront of the man where you’d want it.
If the intention is to play a 3 man midfield and Dobson and Fraser are 2 of them, Gilbey is not good enough to be the third. How I wish we could convince Camara from Plymouth that he could be that person.
Harsh on Gilbey. Had Covid last season & he admitted it took him a while to get back to full fitness.....and I think he suffers from asthma too which can't have helped.
Fine if you want to move him on, but before you go make sure you have a BETTER replacement coming in as this has been our failings in the recent past. Replacing mediocrity with dross gets you to 13th in the League.
These are fair points, but for me his stamina and engine for want of a better term look good. I would say his fitness and ability to keep going over 90 mins isn’t a problem, it’s pretty much everything else with his game. Doesn’t score, doesn’t create. The runs look good but seldom result in anything and I think we’d struggle to push on if we persevered with him.
completely agree re: the better replacement but that’s pretty much true all over the squad at the moment. There’s not enough quality in anyone one position
Certainly agree with this, and have sympathies with SELR’s earlier point, about we how it often feels like we are disappointed with the team as whole performance all year, but then it comes to this point and there’s a big enough section of fans who don’t seem to want individual players to leave.
However that being said, I just personally find it hard to judge our midfielder players on whole as think none of them were ever going to look good, or do well, in Jackson’s system at least and the style of play he demanded.
We just need better players. As you say, I can’t get my head around how so many of us tend to convince ourselves X and Y are good enough, particularly when we just had one of our worst seasons ever.
Even the season before when we finished 7th I think that clouded a lot of people’s judgment. The football was turgid. We had that run of 6 wins and a slight upturn under Adkins that saw us put that run together toward the end of the season. Maybe I saw it differently but I thought we pretty mediocre overall 2 seasons ago, proper mediocre last season and unless we get some real quality in, we’ve got every chance of being pretty crap again.
I know we all see things differently, but at the moment, this squad is light on numbers and light on talent. For me it’s a massive positive if Garner has come in and picked up on this. No more mediocrity, please
He gets in goal scoring positions more than most midfielders. Granted, he hasn't been converting them but that fact stays in my mind and represents possibilities that we need to explore IMO.
Let’s not forget he was Player of the year at a very successful MKD team in season 18/19. Could it be that his performance has deteriorated due to poor players around him at Charlton? May well be a different and much better player with an experienced coach/ manager.
Harsh on Gilbey. Had Covid last season & he admitted it took him a while to get back to full fitness.....and I think he suffers from asthma too which can't have helped.
Fine if you want to move him on, but before you go make sure you have a BETTER replacement coming in as this has been our failings in the recent past. Replacing mediocrity with dross gets you to 13th in the League.
These are fair points, but for me his stamina and engine for want of a better term look good. I would say his fitness and ability to keep going over 90 mins isn’t a problem, it’s pretty much everything else with his game. Doesn’t score, doesn’t create. The runs look good but seldom result in anything and I think we’d struggle to push on if we persevered with him.
completely agree re: the better replacement but that’s pretty much true all over the squad at the moment. There’s not enough quality in anyone one position
Certainly agree with this, and have sympathies with SELR’s earlier point, about we how it often feels like we are disappointed with the team as whole performance all year, but then it comes to this point and there’s a big enough section of fans who don’t seem to want individual players to leave.
However that being said, I just personally find it hard to judge our midfielder players on whole as think none of them were ever going to look good, or do well, in Jackson’s system at least and the style of play he demanded.
The midfield didn't look good in Bowyers last season, didn't look good in Nigel Adkins start of last season, so I don't think it had anything to do with Jacksons system. I think our midfield has been inept for a couple of seasons.
It has been said 2 players have been told they are not needed, people seem certain one is Purrington, if the 2nd is not Gilbey then who is it???? could it be DJ or Kirk or...... ?
Unless he's played out of position all his career, he approx averages 1 goal per 10 games.
He'll be given another season as he's in contract.
I don’t think we can rule out some moving on despite being under contract. TS has his manager in place who has the same philosophy as him, he needs to back him by trusting his decisions. I hope we’ll see Garner improve players but some aren’t going to fit the system so it makes sense to move them on if we can.
Comments
What's happened then? Many of us are quick to criticise rightly or wrongly, but most are only looking at the symptoms (his poor form during the 2nd half of the season).
To get the answer, we first need to know the cause.
Also I don't understand the leaks/rumours that Gilbey has been told he can leave.
On what basis? Watching last season's match footage? The players are not returned yet and the new manager has not even seen Gilbey in training, likely not even had the chance to sit down and chat with him.
My philosophy on the squad cap would be 2 players for ever position (in both a 433 and a 352) + Aneke and Inniss. That would mean you need at least one U21. Every single one of them needs to either be good enough to be first choice or can do a job in 2 or 3 positions. Gilbey (and plenty of others) doesn't. He is one I would look to move on now.
I was a fan under Adkins, even this season, and under caretaker Jackson as well.
Fine if you want to move him on, but before you go make sure you have a BETTER replacement coming in as this has been our failings in the recent past. Replacing mediocrity with dross gets you to 13th in the League.
As it stands, midfield might be the one area we have the first choice players sorted in Dobson, JFC, and Fraser. Morgan is a more suitable backup than Gilbey in this brave new world of ours because passing is probably his best asset.
completely agree re: the better replacement but that’s pretty much true all over the squad at the moment. There’s not enough quality in anyone one position
Whether Garner is the coach and will play the right formation remains to be seen.
However that being said, I just personally find it hard to judge our midfielder players on whole as think none of them were ever going to look good, or do well, in Jackson’s system at least and the style of play he demanded.
We have not seen the best of Fraser yet, but when you watch him, every pass has the right weight and is always just infront of the man where you’d want it.
could it be DJ or Kirk or...... ?
He'll be given another season as he's in contract.
For context lets remember that one of his Poty awards for Mkd was in a relegated team and the other in L2 although they were promoted.